Brilliant video. Maybe there’s something here, but I have to say Ray Lewis is an articulate media operator. He put Jon Snow in his place.
Which makes me think, if Lee Jasper had handled his own enquiries a bit better and didn’t fly off the handle, then maybe he’d have survived too. There are similarities in both the cases, no?
Heh this isn’t over yet so I’m not about to count the chickens. But you have a point; I said from day one if LJ had come out fighting he’d have a stronger chance of surviving, no idea why they let it run up to Christmas…
That remark to Jon Snow was audacious but as soon as he said it my instant feeling was that’s one that’ll come back to haunt him!
Time will tell, and it’s early days yet. Patently the media have got a taste for getting at Boris. It’s almost amusing because it’s only been 8 weeks, and the usual honeymoon period hasn’t really lasted as well as they’d hoped. It’s ironic also because Gilligan made this possible in a way…
How is it that James McGrath, the Mayor’s political adviser, had to go for fear of contaminating the Boris brand with racism yet when accused of financial and sexual impropriety, Ray Lewis is awarded a full independent inquiry? At what financial cost?. How is it that accusations of racism warrants a resignation whilst accusations of sexual and financial irregularities warrants an inquiry?
Reportedly Ray Lewis has done sterling work with Black youths and whoever is orchestrating this campaign against him is knowingly jeopardising this, which gives the measure of Ray Lewis’ detractors, whatever his own shortcomings.
yes it was well handled. Being ’struck off’ by the Cof E is a long process & not a thing one can easily miss in the post - be interesting to see how that allegation fares.
Ultimately, I hope that it does not come down to the strength of ones media handling ability helping to mask/avert the consequences of any (alleged at the moment) wrongdoing.
After all, was not Boris elected as a triumph of form over content?
Reportedly Ray Lewis has done sterling work with Black youths and whoever is orchestrating this campaign against him is knowingly jeopardising this, which gives the measure of Ray Lewis’ detractors, whatever his own shortcomings.
These things always have collateral damage, very few seemed to mind that when Lee Jasper was attacked.
Can’t make you out Leon, thought you were some kind of Trot but maybe you are a black nazi, as a friend of mine once called the New Black Panthers in the UK. On the other hand you could actually be Lee Jasper. I understand he wants to fight Kate Hoey’s ward in Vauxhall.
I still haven’t had any response to the remarks I have made elswhere on this site about many of Lee Jaspers activities. I would have thought that calling him a street hustler when he was renting out pavements at Notting Hill during carnival and using the muscle of pimp, drug dealer and arms supplier Frank Critchlow would have warranted a response a response of some kind.
In some ways I feel sorry for Lee. He was stridently anti white even though his mother is white, that is a factor I have often come across with these “black” activists. The whiter they are in skin colour the more stridently black they become. Bit sad really!
And some other news just in! Despite a massive campaign against them in Chadwell Heath the BNP still got 25% of the vote. This is not looking good and it is actually only the massive swing to the Tories which is keeping them out of power in many areas of the country.
Predictably the useless Unite Against Fascism crew turned up with four people for an hour during the whole campaign, couldn’t find the ward and leafleted a supermarket car park not even in the ward, still, after the demise of Bro Lee, with Weyman Bennett in charge what can we expect? Lee was lazy and corrupt, Weyman is just thick.
Some interesting posters going up around Whitechapel advertising Marxism 2008. There is a photo of two black athletes at the 1968 games giving the clenched fist Panther salute. The only problem is that there was a third white Australian athlete, the silver medalist, who also gave the salute in solidarity. He has been airbrushed out. This is one of the reasons the SWP are nowhere with white people in this country. They basically don’t like us and we know it, same as the “black nazis” like Leon and Lee.
If it were not for the fact that we have a massive problem with the BNP they would be just a joke, well they are but it is a sick one.
Firstly you refer to my time at the Mangrove Community Association (MCA) and my involvement in Carnival. Your comments re pimps and drug dealers are facile, sterotypical and more importantly racist and factually incorrect. Frank Crichlow and 12 oher members of the MCA were arrested in 1985 of conspiracy to supply class a drugs. Each of the 12 were tried by individual juries and all were acquitted. The drugs were planted by the police Frank was eventually awarded the highest civil award payout in British legal history. I along with other members of the MCA led the the campign to prove their innocence. This site must remove these comments immediately.
Secondly chump - my mother is not white not that this matters although she gets quite upset about it. So another factual error in your otherwise bollocks comments.
There really doesn’t seemed to have been any honeymoon period. The attack dogs have been out since the beginning. We’ve had a constant barrage of criticism which is a sad indictment of political comment, of intolerance to other political points of view.
IS it really any surprise the left attack dogs are desperate to take down the Boris administration before it’s even started? Already they’ve said got the media to parrot the line that Boris aide ‘told immigrants to go home’.
And yes, good on Lewis for coming out fighting. I think Boris has seen that he’s gonna have to stick by his men until wrong doing has been proven in a court of law.
Yo, big Bro Lee, flushed you out. Critchlow was dealing and pimping back in the days of Darcus Howe and the Mangrove. They were both involved in the later days of Gordon Edgecombe, Lucky Gordon, Christine Keeler, ring any bells?
Your problem son, is that there are people out there who actually know you and what a little cowardly ponce you are. You abused an old friend of mine Terry Fitzpatrick in an e mail you sent to him calling all white people racists, ring any bells? You were made to apologise by the then CEO of the GLA. Ring any bells?
Like Terry I was out at Bermondsey when you, and your pathetic National Black Caucus, went on a march through an area we call the “blue”. You were told not to do it and when the NF and Combat 18 attacked you ran, and I saw you run, down Southwark Park Rd to hide behind a police line. A copper told us that you actually shat your trousers.
Interesting debate on the Guardian CiF site about your latest bit of drivel. I have been deleted as have many others, it seems that your black nazi mate Joseph Harker, are deleting anything which is critical of you.
Sunny, I have critisised you in the past, but this is now the only site where this kind of debate can take place. The Guardian is finished as far as free speech is concerned.
Ooh drama. I’m off soon, but I’d advise people to start saving the webpage to their desktops, as juicy bits may get summarily delete by blog authors
Please Sunny et al take caution in deleting comments, unless absolutely neccesary. Of course you can do whatever you like or need to, just pleading hesistation. Bye for now chaps and chapesses.
Terry stop hiding mate - guessed it was your sad sorry arse. As for the rest well I will leave it there for now suffice to say Terry your supposed to rub that stuff into your knarled joints not drink it. As for your comments about Crtichlow. Howe and Harker they are a disgrace.
In realtion to Ray I think its now open season on black faces in high places. Once you pander to racism as the Tories did during the Mayoral campaign there no telling who will be its next victim. I do not believe the crap that is being written about Ray for a moment. Its a very old story and the man should be given the opportunity to clear his name. Racism has to be opposed whatever the political persuasion of its victim - which is at times difficult but neccesary.
No more for now and Sunny get a grip of your site.
Please Sunny et al take caution in deleting comments, unless absolutely neccesary.
As always, but we’re not going to allow a law suit to take place.
Billy, please leave it now, you’re dragging up ancient history in your usual manner, we’re not interested, this isn’t the place nor the time. If you want to continue your exchange with Lee Jasper take it elsewhere.
Open season for black faces? What, you and Ray? Let’s not get carried away. There’s plenty of black faces in politics and the media.
That said, people do like to attribute something, speacial, I think to black faces. Basically that they should be thinking or voting a particular way. Or the way Yasmin Alibhai-Brown thinks black and asians should be voting http://jamescleverly.blogspot.com/2008/06/insulting-racist-drivel.html
Oh and perhaps like Ken’s attack on Trevor Phillips saying he’ll be joining the BNP next. Ho ho ho.
I’m no defender of Lee Jasper Bill, but you’re boring us with your one man vendetta and hysterial screaming on this post. Get a life / stick to the topic. Choice is up to you.
self-portraying salt of the earth man, grounded in the street, decades of unimpeachable anti-racism, liberally dosed with references quite beyond my knowledge yet superficially plausible;
-that was one reading.
On the other hand, my 1st memory is of his experience of left-wingers of olde whose racism excelled most people’s.
Then he’s claimed to deal with all with a sense of humour, in line with his accumulated wisdom.
-Looking @ #13 above, I want to know whence he saw him [Jasper] running, and in what capacity. Bearing in mind how common it was for the NF to make a point of marching in non-white areas to provoke and intimidate, and how often the police would protect them.
He’s claimed the recent employment legislation discriminates against whites [is it willful, or endemic, stupidity to fail to see that where white males are underrepresented, then any such applicant could now be favoured]
- not alone in that to be sure, but presents this in the form of his special wisdom from talking to swelling numbers of bnp-voters.
I had extended so vast a benefit of doubt to him, in case he meant well but was incapable of drawing political conclusions [again, not uncommon of itself, yet suspect for a wise activist type] - it’s not as though these people have been treated other than scum by their superiors ever since they were press-ganged to join the navy at the dawn of empire..; one would wonder, what the fuck does HE say when engaging with the bnp-voters?
By now tho’ it’s become clear, with blanket assertions of anti-white racism everywhere, including supposed trotskiests.
So, with his own rope:
“Some interesting posters going up around Whitechapel advertising Marxism 2008. There is a photo of two black athletes at the 1968 games giving the clenched fist Panther salute. The only problem is that there was a third white Australian athlete, the silver medalist, who also gave the salute in solidarity. He has been airbrushed out. This is one of the reasons the SWP are nowhere with white people in this country. They basically don’t like us and we know it, same as the “black nazis” like Leon and Lee”
Now, to expunge any subjectivity on my part, I spent some minutes on this airbrush claim, if only to check my memory of a recent viewing of a trailer featuring this salute: I read the Australian as in sympathy with the blacks, but no reference to him saluting.
That’s not to categorically say he didn’t, but it is indeed categorical to impute the motives of someone who claims such airbrushing has taken place only now after 4o years by one particular organisation as proof of their racism, and thereby cite it as rationalising voting bnp.
So my question is: how should such a person be thought of/addressed without insult?
Isn’t it funny how nobody actually responds to allegations. Sunny, are you afraid of being barred from CiF?
Yeah, its a massive ZOG/Asian/brown/Illuminati conspiracy. Or its because we can’t be arsed to host a slagging match on here which has no relevance to this debate.
I didn’t think Ray handled that well at all. Jon Snow was very diplomatic; if it had been the Paxman, he would have shut that gobby goon up. He just oozes guilt, but let’s wait for the results. And smear campaign? Am I missing something here? Why would the Church of England want to attempt to smear anyone?
Happy to have debate but this man is a lunatic. Please remove references to my family. Let the rest stand if you must but this comment is beyond the bounds of reasonable political debate.
“Am I missing something here? Why would the Church of England want to attempt to smear anyone?”
Lee just gave us the answer: it’s open season on blacks. And it makes a lot of sense, like in a murder mystery, the perpetrator is always the one you least suspect. I mean, who would have thought that the Church of England would smear a perfectly innocent man?
Leaving aside the argument, he’s not a lunatic. He’s been engaged with anti-racism for quite some time - and clashed with the National Front and Combat 18 head on many times in Brick Lane - and helped many British-Bangladeshi families in East London fight racism. He’s helped homeless families squat into disused council housing, including my own family, in the the late 1970s. And still works for Searchlight.
When I say fight racism, I don’t mean making a speech wearing a suit as I might these days, but he was on the front line fighting Combat 18.
Another racist witch-hunt claims its minority victim. Sickening. This “nation”, bloated on the blood and gold of centuries of ethnic enslavement and oppression, is rotten to its white supremacist core.
When I say fight racism, I don’t mean making a speech wearing a suit as I might these days, but he was on the front line fighting Combat 18.
Yes I figured as much. I have respect for Bill on that basis, but he has some bizarre discussion tactics. I met Nick Lowles the other day at a Compass event, so I’m assuming that’s how Bill knows about my changed stance re: the BNP.
billaricaydickey — makes good though unconventional points (not referring to the allegations against individuals). The anti-racist lobby does need to reflect on this and ponder how to tackle the growing swing to the right. And insulting and upsetting as it may sound, its a fact that many areas have been saved from BNP council (could in the not so distant future be parliamentary) representation only by people choosing to vote Tory.
The white working classes are now dis-enfranchised- and I personally feel that I would be racist if I couldn’t contend with the fact that many indigenous white people feel alienated and that they have missed out of the economic prosperity that the country had enjoyed over the past decade. If we can’t accept this notion are we any different to the rightists who couldn’t understand why black people were rioting in Brixton, Toxteth and Lozells a couple of decades ago?
The issue is central to this discussion about Ray Lewis. He has been providing what is reputedly a good intervention to deal with the slippery slope of exclusion of young black men. Why then Indrak (#27) is it right wing politics to suggest that some young white people are facing discrimination - though accept the issues are not the same as people of minority ethnic/faith. I have not seen the precise comments made by billaricaydickey on this— but contend that too often administrations of both political persuasions have treated deprivation, poverty and causes of crime with disdain and as a political football- to clamber for votes and not to necessarily deal with the real issues. These are issues that are affecting white working classes disproportionately – lack of strategies and effective outcomes in my eyes is discrimination.
Thatcher tried to buy votes with ‘right to buy’ and Labour has just forgotten about the real issues of their faithful supporters who had voted for them whether in opposition or power. Just take a look at how much money has been invested in social housing estates – other than on housing- and you realise how the wider issues have been ignored – how many of the grand regeneration schemes have gone to outer city rather than inner-city estates with large BME communities? In my area the answer was none until the BNP started to have a showing in the ballot box. And for me that is too little too late –it is not a responsible policy but a politically responsive ‘save our seats’ strategy.
Instead the powers that be continue to suck upto the politics of separation vis-a-vis Sharia Law or positive discrimination (which is discrimination- however you look at it) and further give credence to the persuasive arguments of the BNP to the indigenous white voter - that mainstream politics is ignoring them and their issues.
BTW - in case anybody wants to second guess or jump to conclusions - last time I checked I was not a white supremacist BNP frog-marcher!
I just think, though, we’re actually on the same side ( broadly speaking) when it comes to anti-racism - including the post above. The side that’s concerned with giving young people, whatever their backgrounds, a decent future.
Thanks Halima, I always knew I could depend on the Syhleties. Saw Afia the other day and she sends her regards. Rahim Baksh has become a father for the fourth time and restaurants are going bankrupt in Brick Lane, apart from that everything is much the same.
Respect is collapsing with defections to Labour and the Tories and the left simply cannot understand what went wrong in just two years. They should have taken a course on village politics instead of reading Trotsky.
When are you back? I might do Bangladesh this coming winter, Abbas has a flat in Syhlet town that he keeps empty for people who want to use it.
While I give the fullest respect to those who fought the good fight back then, its time to move on like the rest of the world has. The fight is different, you’ll need a different sort of debate to win it.
Sure there are new fights to be fought, but i don’t forget the old ones, frankly you didn’t come out looking stupid if you lost an argument then, you came out with a few broken bones .. and it wasn’t that acceptable to be anti-racist then and the police were never around to hold law and order. We shouldn’t forget the past.
Billarcaydickey
Hope to be back in the summer for a bit so will call you! But let me email you for a proper catch up.
The world wasn’t born yesterday, it is made up of a lot of struggles and pain and families and people who trust each other.
What happened twenty years ago can be relevant to what goes on now. We are communicating in a language which has evolved over at least a thousand years. I was down Brick Lane ten minutes ago talking, in Syhleti, to people for whom the 1970s shaped the Bangladeshi world they live in.
It was their battle against the racism of the state and the National Front. You denigrate their struggle. But of course you do not know about it.
Halima Ji, the time has come for the truth! Otherwise the history will be the ridiculous ” New East End” from the those well know fantasists the Young Foundation! I will, write my bit if you will start writing yours.
I think it should be a compi
lation of the memories of those involved.
Dheka Hobey.
Sunny, get a Bengali opotion on the site, I can’t express myself “proper” in Ingrez.
@ 44 & 45 : my school had several skin heads (pupils) -many years later i did not expect to see that mentality when working in the corporate world. It does exist, not so blatantly, but is still there and unfortunately at a senior level (who are mostly aged 40-60 and whose views have not changed so much over the years…). Not the same fight? Yes it is the same fight but more heavily veiled.
Brilliant video. Maybe there’s something here, but I have to say Ray Lewis is an articulate media operator. He put Jon Snow in his place.
Which makes me think, if Lee Jasper had handled his own enquiries a bit better and didn’t fly off the handle, then maybe he’d have survived too. There are similarities in both the cases, no?
Heh this isn’t over yet so I’m not about to count the chickens. But you have a point; I said from day one if LJ had come out fighting he’d have a stronger chance of surviving, no idea why they let it run up to Christmas…
That remark to Jon Snow was audacious but as soon as he said it my instant feeling was that’s one that’ll come back to haunt him!
Time will tell, and it’s early days yet. Patently the media have got a taste for getting at Boris. It’s almost amusing because it’s only been 8 weeks, and the usual honeymoon period hasn’t really lasted as well as they’d hoped. It’s ironic also because Gilligan made this possible in a way…
How is it that James McGrath, the Mayor’s political adviser, had to go for fear of contaminating the Boris brand with racism yet when accused of financial and sexual impropriety, Ray Lewis is awarded a full independent inquiry? At what financial cost?. How is it that accusations of racism warrants a resignation whilst accusations of sexual and financial irregularities warrants an inquiry?
Reportedly Ray Lewis has done sterling work with Black youths and whoever is orchestrating this campaign against him is knowingly jeopardising this, which gives the measure of Ray Lewis’ detractors, whatever his own shortcomings.
yes it was well handled. Being ’struck off’ by the Cof E is a long process & not a thing one can easily miss in the post - be interesting to see how that allegation fares.
Ultimately, I hope that it does not come down to the strength of ones media handling ability helping to mask/avert the consequences of any (alleged at the moment) wrongdoing.
After all, was not Boris elected as a triumph of form over content?
These things always have collateral damage, very few seemed to mind that when Lee Jasper was attacked.
Can’t make you out Leon, thought you were some kind of Trot but maybe you are a black nazi, as a friend of mine once called the New Black Panthers in the UK. On the other hand you could actually be Lee Jasper. I understand he wants to fight Kate Hoey’s ward in Vauxhall.
I still haven’t had any response to the remarks I have made elswhere on this site about many of Lee Jaspers activities. I would have thought that calling him a street hustler when he was renting out pavements at Notting Hill during carnival and using the muscle of pimp, drug dealer and arms supplier Frank Critchlow would have warranted a response a response of some kind.
In some ways I feel sorry for Lee. He was stridently anti white even though his mother is white, that is a factor I have often come across with these “black” activists. The whiter they are in skin colour the more stridently black they become. Bit sad really!
And some other news just in! Despite a massive campaign against them in Chadwell Heath the BNP still got 25% of the vote. This is not looking good and it is actually only the massive swing to the Tories which is keeping them out of power in many areas of the country.
Predictably the useless Unite Against Fascism crew turned up with four people for an hour during the whole campaign, couldn’t find the ward and leafleted a supermarket car park not even in the ward, still, after the demise of Bro Lee, with Weyman Bennett in charge what can we expect? Lee was lazy and corrupt, Weyman is just thick.
Some interesting posters going up around Whitechapel advertising Marxism 2008. There is a photo of two black athletes at the 1968 games giving the clenched fist Panther salute. The only problem is that there was a third white Australian athlete, the silver medalist, who also gave the salute in solidarity. He has been airbrushed out. This is one of the reasons the SWP are nowhere with white people in this country. They basically don’t like us and we know it, same as the “black nazis” like Leon and Lee.
If it were not for the fact that we have a massive problem with the BNP they would be just a joke, well they are but it is a sick one.
LOL! Billydicky you really are a card! I aint LJ (Sunny’s met me a couple times and can attest) and I aint a black Nazi (whatever the hell that is!).
In response to biggerdickey
Firstly you refer to my time at the Mangrove Community Association (MCA) and my involvement in Carnival. Your comments re pimps and drug dealers are facile, sterotypical and more importantly racist and factually incorrect. Frank Crichlow and 12 oher members of the MCA were arrested in 1985 of conspiracy to supply class a drugs. Each of the 12 were tried by individual juries and all were acquitted. The drugs were planted by the police Frank was eventually awarded the highest civil award payout in British legal history. I along with other members of the MCA led the the campign to prove their innocence. This site must remove these comments immediately.
Secondly chump - my mother is not white not that this matters although she gets quite upset about it. So another factual error in your otherwise bollocks comments.
“The whiter they are in skin colour the more stridently black they become. Bit sad really!”
yeh and obviously this observation has been made using some sort of of pseudo research project right?
bloody pathetic comment
Hi Jasper, if it’s the real McCoy, do you have any thoughts on Ray Lewis could share, we’d all be very interested indeed?
d the usual honeymoon period hasn’t really lasted
There really doesn’t seemed to have been any honeymoon period. The attack dogs have been out since the beginning. We’ve had a constant barrage of criticism which is a sad indictment of political comment, of intolerance to other political points of view.
IS it really any surprise the left attack dogs are desperate to take down the Boris administration before it’s even started? Already they’ve said got the media to parrot the line that Boris aide ‘told immigrants to go home’.
And yes, good on Lewis for coming out fighting. I think Boris has seen that he’s gonna have to stick by his men until wrong doing has been proven in a court of law.
“The attack dogs have been out since the beginning.”
What, three blogs?
Yo, big Bro Lee, flushed you out. Critchlow was dealing and pimping back in the days of Darcus Howe and the Mangrove. They were both involved in the later days of Gordon Edgecombe, Lucky Gordon, Christine Keeler, ring any bells?
Your problem son, is that there are people out there who actually know you and what a little cowardly ponce you are. You abused an old friend of mine Terry Fitzpatrick in an e mail you sent to him calling all white people racists, ring any bells? You were made to apologise by the then CEO of the GLA. Ring any bells?
Like Terry I was out at Bermondsey when you, and your pathetic National Black Caucus, went on a march through an area we call the “blue”. You were told not to do it and when the NF and Combat 18 attacked you ran, and I saw you run, down Southwark Park Rd to hide behind a police line. A copper told us that you actually shat your trousers.
Interesting debate on the Guardian CiF site about your latest bit of drivel. I have been deleted as have many others, it seems that your black nazi mate Joseph Harker, are deleting anything which is critical of you.
Sunny, I have critisised you in the past, but this is now the only site where this kind of debate can take place. The Guardian is finished as far as free speech is concerned.
Ooh drama. I’m off soon, but I’d advise people to start saving the webpage to their desktops, as juicy bits may get summarily delete by blog authors
Please Sunny et al take caution in deleting comments, unless absolutely neccesary. Of course you can do whatever you like or need to, just pleading hesistation. Bye for now chaps and chapesses.
Terry stop hiding mate - guessed it was your sad sorry arse. As for the rest well I will leave it there for now suffice to say Terry your supposed to rub that stuff into your knarled joints not drink it. As for your comments about Crtichlow. Howe and Harker they are a disgrace.
In realtion to Ray I think its now open season on black faces in high places. Once you pander to racism as the Tories did during the Mayoral campaign there no telling who will be its next victim. I do not believe the crap that is being written about Ray for a moment. Its a very old story and the man should be given the opportunity to clear his name. Racism has to be opposed whatever the political persuasion of its victim - which is at times difficult but neccesary.
No more for now and Sunny get a grip of your site.
As always, but we’re not going to allow a law suit to take place.
Billy, please leave it now, you’re dragging up ancient history in your usual manner, we’re not interested, this isn’t the place nor the time. If you want to continue your exchange with Lee Jasper take it elsewhere.
Open season for black faces? What, you and Ray? Let’s not get carried away. There’s plenty of black faces in politics and the media.
That said, people do like to attribute something, speacial, I think to black faces. Basically that they should be thinking or voting a particular way. Or the way Yasmin Alibhai-Brown thinks black and asians should be voting http://jamescleverly.blogspot.com/2008/06/insulting-racist-drivel.html
Oh and perhaps like Ken’s attack on Trevor Phillips saying he’ll be joining the BNP next. Ho ho ho.
it seems that your black nazi mate Joseph Harker, are deleting anything which is critical of you.
And this is the kind of crap that makes me not take you too seriously Bill. You’re a man of hyperbole and lacking in substance, by the looks of it.
and incidentally, if you say libellous things here, they will also get deleted.
[Deleted by Rumbold]
Sounds racist and corrupt to me, what do other people think?
What do I think? I think you should fuck off.
I’m no defender of Lee Jasper Bill, but you’re boring us with your one man vendetta and hysterial screaming on this post. Get a life / stick to the topic. Choice is up to you.
All I can say is come back to me oN what I have said. Spoken to Terry Fitz who is in Spain and he will come back to you with chapter and verse.
Isn’t it funny how nobody actually responds to allegations. Sunny, are you afraid of being barred from CiF?
Give it a rest, you’re not on a moral crusade you’re on a vendetta.
This post is about Ray Lewis, and yet here you are again going off the deep end with your rabid obsession about Lee Jasper.
I’ve had enough, anymore posts like this Billy and they’ll be deleted.
If you want to spend your life banging on about what you think Lee Jasper did 20 years ago you can fuck off and do it on your own blog.
What Sid said.
Interesting, Leon. it now seems that you have power to delete posts. Hmmm.
El Tel will be back to you tomorrow.
This billaricktdickey:
self-portraying salt of the earth man, grounded in the street, decades of unimpeachable anti-racism, liberally dosed with references quite beyond my knowledge yet superficially plausible;
-that was one reading.
On the other hand, my 1st memory is of his experience of left-wingers of olde whose racism excelled most people’s.
Then he’s claimed to deal with all with a sense of humour, in line with his accumulated wisdom.
-Looking @ #13 above, I want to know whence he saw him [Jasper] running, and in what capacity. Bearing in mind how common it was for the NF to make a point of marching in non-white areas to provoke and intimidate, and how often the police would protect them.
He’s claimed the recent employment legislation discriminates against whites [is it willful, or endemic, stupidity to fail to see that where white males are underrepresented, then any such applicant could now be favoured]
- not alone in that to be sure, but presents this in the form of his special wisdom from talking to swelling numbers of bnp-voters.
I had extended so vast a benefit of doubt to him, in case he meant well but was incapable of drawing political conclusions [again, not uncommon of itself, yet suspect for a wise activist type] - it’s not as though these people have been treated other than scum by their superiors ever since they were press-ganged to join the navy at the dawn of empire..; one would wonder, what the fuck does HE say when engaging with the bnp-voters?
By now tho’ it’s become clear, with blanket assertions of anti-white racism everywhere, including supposed trotskiests.
So, with his own rope:
“Some interesting posters going up around Whitechapel advertising Marxism 2008. There is a photo of two black athletes at the 1968 games giving the clenched fist Panther salute. The only problem is that there was a third white Australian athlete, the silver medalist, who also gave the salute in solidarity. He has been airbrushed out. This is one of the reasons the SWP are nowhere with white people in this country. They basically don’t like us and we know it, same as the “black nazis” like Leon and Lee”
Now, to expunge any subjectivity on my part, I spent some minutes on this airbrush claim, if only to check my memory of a recent viewing of a trailer featuring this salute: I read the Australian as in sympathy with the blacks, but no reference to him saluting.
That’s not to categorically say he didn’t, but it is indeed categorical to impute the motives of someone who claims such airbrushing has taken place only now after 4o years by one particular organisation as proof of their racism, and thereby cite it as rationalising voting bnp.
So my question is: how should such a person be thought of/addressed without insult?
You’re constantly trolling and offering up the same boring stuff. We don’t need it and won’t tolerate it.
Isn’t it funny how nobody actually responds to allegations. Sunny, are you afraid of being barred from CiF?
Yeah, its a massive ZOG/Asian/brown/Illuminati conspiracy. Or its because we can’t be arsed to host a slagging match on here which has no relevance to this debate.
I didn’t think Ray handled that well at all. Jon Snow was very diplomatic; if it had been the Paxman, he would have shut that gobby goon up. He just oozes guilt, but let’s wait for the results. And smear campaign? Am I missing something here? Why would the Church of England want to attempt to smear anyone?
He’s gone now anyway.
Sunny
Happy to have debate but this man is a lunatic. Please remove references to my family. Let the rest stand if you must but this comment is beyond the bounds of reasonable political debate.
Lee
Lee just gave us the answer: it’s open season on blacks. And it makes a lot of sense, like in a murder mystery, the perpetrator is always the one you least suspect. I mean, who would have thought that the Church of England would smear a perfectly innocent man?
I’m rather sad to report that Ray Lewis has resigned.
Lee Jasper:
The reference to your son (comment #20) has been removed.
On a lighter note, this discussion has reminded me of how much I enjoyed Boris winning.
billaricaydicky:
Any more references to people’s families, whatever they might or might not have done, and we will have to consider barring you.
“Happy to have debate but this man is a lunatic”
Leaving aside the argument, he’s not a lunatic. He’s been engaged with anti-racism for quite some time - and clashed with the National Front and Combat 18 head on many times in Brick Lane - and helped many British-Bangladeshi families in East London fight racism. He’s helped homeless families squat into disused council housing, including my own family, in the the late 1970s. And still works for Searchlight.
When I say fight racism, I don’t mean making a speech wearing a suit as I might these days, but he was on the front line fighting Combat 18.
Another racist witch-hunt claims its minority victim. Sickening. This “nation”, bloated on the blood and gold of centuries of ethnic enslavement and oppression, is rotten to its white supremacist core.
Halima:
I never knew that. Thanks for telling us.
Ray Lewis has resigned, new thread here: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2130
When I say fight racism, I don’t mean making a speech wearing a suit as I might these days, but he was on the front line fighting Combat 18.
Yes I figured as much. I have respect for Bill on that basis, but he has some bizarre discussion tactics. I met Nick Lowles the other day at a Compass event, so I’m assuming that’s how Bill knows about my changed stance re: the BNP.
billaricaydickey — makes good though unconventional points (not referring to the allegations against individuals). The anti-racist lobby does need to reflect on this and ponder how to tackle the growing swing to the right. And insulting and upsetting as it may sound, its a fact that many areas have been saved from BNP council (could in the not so distant future be parliamentary) representation only by people choosing to vote Tory.
The white working classes are now dis-enfranchised- and I personally feel that I would be racist if I couldn’t contend with the fact that many indigenous white people feel alienated and that they have missed out of the economic prosperity that the country had enjoyed over the past decade. If we can’t accept this notion are we any different to the rightists who couldn’t understand why black people were rioting in Brixton, Toxteth and Lozells a couple of decades ago?
The issue is central to this discussion about Ray Lewis. He has been providing what is reputedly a good intervention to deal with the slippery slope of exclusion of young black men. Why then Indrak (#27) is it right wing politics to suggest that some young white people are facing discrimination - though accept the issues are not the same as people of minority ethnic/faith. I have not seen the precise comments made by billaricaydickey on this— but contend that too often administrations of both political persuasions have treated deprivation, poverty and causes of crime with disdain and as a political football- to clamber for votes and not to necessarily deal with the real issues. These are issues that are affecting white working classes disproportionately – lack of strategies and effective outcomes in my eyes is discrimination.
Thatcher tried to buy votes with ‘right to buy’ and Labour has just forgotten about the real issues of their faithful supporters who had voted for them whether in opposition or power. Just take a look at how much money has been invested in social housing estates – other than on housing- and you realise how the wider issues have been ignored – how many of the grand regeneration schemes have gone to outer city rather than inner-city estates with large BME communities? In my area the answer was none until the BNP started to have a showing in the ballot box. And for me that is too little too late –it is not a responsible policy but a politically responsive ‘save our seats’ strategy.
Instead the powers that be continue to suck upto the politics of separation vis-a-vis Sharia Law or positive discrimination (which is discrimination- however you look at it) and further give credence to the persuasive arguments of the BNP to the indigenous white voter - that mainstream politics is ignoring them and their issues.
BTW - in case anybody wants to second guess or jump to conclusions - last time I checked I was not a white supremacist BNP frog-marcher!
Sunny
Yes, discussion tactics are different.
I just think, though, we’re actually on the same side ( broadly speaking) when it comes to anti-racism - including the post above. The side that’s concerned with giving young people, whatever their backgrounds, a decent future.
Thanks Halima, I always knew I could depend on the Syhleties. Saw Afia the other day and she sends her regards. Rahim Baksh has become a father for the fourth time and restaurants are going bankrupt in Brick Lane, apart from that everything is much the same.
Respect is collapsing with defections to Labour and the Tories and the left simply cannot understand what went wrong in just two years. They should have taken a course on village politics instead of reading Trotsky.
When are you back? I might do Bangladesh this coming winter, Abbas has a flat in Syhlet town that he keeps empty for people who want to use it.
Is this thread a parallel world.
Its like the early 70s all over again.
While I give the fullest respect to those who fought the good fight back then, its time to move on like the rest of the world has. The fight is different, you’ll need a different sort of debate to win it.
Sure there are new fights to be fought, but i don’t forget the old ones, frankly you didn’t come out looking stupid if you lost an argument then, you came out with a few broken bones .. and it wasn’t that acceptable to be anti-racist then and the police were never around to hold law and order. We shouldn’t forget the past.
Billarcaydickey
Hope to be back in the summer for a bit so will call you! But let me email you for a proper catch up.
Ahh the good old days halima ?
Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be.
Inders,
The world wasn’t born yesterday, it is made up of a lot of struggles and pain and families and people who trust each other.
What happened twenty years ago can be relevant to what goes on now. We are communicating in a language which has evolved over at least a thousand years. I was down Brick Lane ten minutes ago talking, in Syhleti, to people for whom the 1970s shaped the Bangladeshi world they live in.
It was their battle against the racism of the state and the National Front. You denigrate their struggle. But of course you do not know about it.
Halima Ji, the time has come for the truth! Otherwise the history will be the ridiculous ” New East End” from the those well know fantasists the Young Foundation! I will, write my bit if you will start writing yours.
I think it should be a compi
lation of the memories of those involved.
Dheka Hobey.
Sunny, get a Bengali opotion on the site, I can’t express myself “proper” in Ingrez.
I’m sorry I can’t understand that, I don’t speak sentimental.
@ 44 & 45 : my school had several skin heads (pupils) -many years later i did not expect to see that mentality when working in the corporate world. It does exist, not so blatantly, but is still there and unfortunately at a senior level (who are mostly aged 40-60 and whose views have not changed so much over the years…). Not the same fight? Yes it is the same fight but more heavily veiled.