Rock Against Racism was a bad idea then?
Boris Johnson’s “cultural advisor” Munira Mirza goes from bad to worse. As Dave Hill pointed out last week, the annual Rise Festival has this year been expunged off its anti-racism message. The festival is held annually in London.
Munira Mirza then wrote this piece for CIF, which was so bad that it was fisked very nicely on BorisWatch for its gratuitous amounts of bull. The BNP representative in London, who pushed on this issue, is very happy.
All this shouldn’t be surprising - after all she is following the party (Policy Exchange) line. A few years ago she published this report, arguing that the arts were being damaged by targets that focused on “social exclusion” and other political goals than the pursuit of arts in itself. I mean, who the hell wants social exclusion anyway? This is simply the outcome of that view.
The view is naive on several levels. Firstly, the arts is predominantly a middle-class white activity and its practioners self-reinforce that by commissioning art from that demographic and then attracting audiences who primarily relate to that. So some money is used to fund arts activity by people of more deprived backgrounds and of ethnic minority backgrounds (which usually overlaps) for the sake of widening the scope of British Arts and the audiences that consume it. Not very different to when I argue that television production has become a middle-class activity and that leads to crap like the BBC White Season.
Secondly and more importantly, Munira Mirza seems to ignore the social impact of political messages through music and arts. The point about Rise was to keep the anti-racism message the predominant narrative. It was big events like Rock Against Racism that made anti-racism the socially acceptable position. She seems to think that despite a BNP member being elected on to the assembly, there’s no evidence of racism becoming more socially acceptable. Instead, because only around 70% of the audience were white, it meant the festival wasn’t diverse enough (yes, that’s her argument!). Sheesh.
Next up: the London Mela a bad idea because there’s too many Asians there.
[...] Londonist: London News, Food, Arts & Events wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt Boris Johnson’s “cultural advisor” Munira Mirza goes from bad to worse. As Dave Hill pointed out last week, the annual Rise Festival has this year been expunged off its anti-racism message. The festival is held annually in London. Munira Mirza then wrote this piece for CIF, which was so bad that it was fisked very nicely on BorisWatch for its gratuitous amounts of bull. The BNP representative in London, who pushed on this issue, is very happy. All this shouldn’t be surprising - after all she [...]
I totally agree with you Sunny. Mirza’a CIF piece is just plan stupid. Her arguments are totally flawed. I don’t understand how you can drop ‘anti-racism’ out of Rise when:
a) we have an elected BNP member in the GLA
b) because 70% of Rise participants are white?
Is she saying white people can’t be anti-racists?!!? What more greater example of community cohesion can you have!!
I personally think she’s out of her depth and give her 6 months tops before she’s given the boot.
speaking as an artist who will actually be playing at the festival, i 100% agree with what munira mirza wrote. i don’t see how it can be any clearer - the festival should be for *londoners* - not a junket for all of ken’s hard-left cronies. it is hardly surprising that the audience is “70% white”, when this 70% almost certainly consists of lefties and trade unionists who think that only lefties can be anti-racist and that racism is bad, m’kay?. i think boris is spot-on. far too much arts programming is focused on “motherhood and apple pie” issues like anti-racism, which nobody but the BNP could object to, thus enabling the hard left to score cheap points whilst sucking on the public subsidy tit which ought properly to be used for direct promotion of public music - but that’s ken all over, isn’t it?
as a member of a jewish group who will (apparently) be playing on the “arabic stage”, whatever that is, i have a number of concerns, in that there is a tendency for “anti-racism” events to be hijacked by israel-bashers (UN durban conference, anyone?) who are, of course, synonymous with the hard left / islamist “respect tendency”. i will be keeping a watchful eye on how we, as a band who are not israeli, play music which is mostly from the judeo-islamic world and, moreover, embrace a wide variety of opinions about I/P are treated simply for being jewish.
i also think, as a world musician, that celebrating diversity will get you far more interesting bands than the boring old mainstream stuff at large festivals - london needs platforms for more minority groups to perform for larger audiences and this is an excellent idea.
if you want to bash boris for something, start lobbying for something which would resuscitate london’s live music scene - stopping the local authorities using live music licences as a revenue-raising activity and start making it easier to run live music events. now that is something that ken did absolutely *nothing* about, except when he could personally sponsor free festivals run by his cronies.
b’shalom
bananabrain
I good response on CIF http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/18/race.boris
Thanks for the link, Sunny.
Mirza’s problem was that she had to be seen to celebrate diversity while still appealing to those with resentment towards Ken.
Bananabrain,
“far too much arts programming is focused on “motherhood and apple pie” issues like anti-racism, which nobody but the BNP could object to”
Over 5% of the London electorate selected the BNP and votes for the NF went into five figures. It is a major issue, and this was Europe’s largest anti-racism festival.
“it is hardly surprising that the audience is “70% white”, when this 70% almost certainly consists of lefties and trade unionists who think that only lefties can be anti-racist and that racism is bad, m’kay?”
Mirza’s statistics were just obscurantist. This seems to be only slightly different from London demographics.
“thus enabling the hard left to score cheap points whilst sucking on the public subsidy tit which ought properly to be used for direct promotion of public music”
Wishing to cut associations with certain far left groups does not logically lead one to abandon the entire theme of the festival.
“start making it easier to run live music events. now that is something that ken did absolutely *nothing* about, except when he could personally sponsor free festivals run by his cronies.”
Whatever you think of the political associations of the Rise festival, it did remain a free music event.
“i also think, as a world musician, that celebrating diversity will get you far more interesting bands than the boring old mainstream stuff at large festivals - london needs platforms for more minority groups to perform for larger audiences and this is an excellent idea.”
Again, one can celebrate diversity within Europe’s largest anti-racism festival.
Respectfully,
Ben
i would say that anti-racism is included within the theme of celebrating diversity which is a far more inclusive theme. anti-racism is also a label and a brand which has been dominated for far too long by the lee jaspers of the world and is, whether you like it or not, largely preaching to the converted and not actually exposing anyone to new ideas or culture. it’s just the same tired old story - it institutionalises the anti-racism campaigners without embedding the message in the audience, rather like the cliché of SWP banners waving predictably on the news. if you want change, it has to be done in a different way and one which will allow the audience to change. go to a smaller free world music festival and you will see a far less white and far more diverse crowd, hijabis picknicking next to hippies, dreadlock-bearers and families from north london.
consequently, i would argue that the theme of the festival hasn’t been abandoned, merely subsumed into an agenda which is far more politically inclusive of people outside lee jasper’s comfort zone who would otherwise be put off.
b’shalom
bananabrain
The state/taxpayers shouldn’t fund any cultural events ever. There are two main reasons for this. Firstly, the purpose of the state is to provide essential services (such as law and order, flood defences and so on), not art/culture. Secondly, it is debatable whether art/culture benefits from state funding, with all of its rules. Much better to let individuals or companies pay for what they want.
rumbold,
i’m a libertarian/small-statist by preference, but there are certain social goods where the market just isn’t a comprehensive solution. public transport is one. public art is another. music has always needed sponsors and this has always meant, in practice, rich people commissioning stuff. the commercial market doesn’t support anything other than risk-averse imitation. this is why simon cowell’s product is so massively commercially successful - although he is in my opinion quite excellent at quality control. if you want to bootstrap diversity in arts, it will not self-finance, they need subsidy the same as the railway. the question then is, is live music a public good or not? i would answer yes, obviously. technology has democratised much of the *recorded* music capability, but live music remains labour-intensive and considerably underserved, for the simple reason that it is cheaper for a bar to hire a DJ than hire a band. so where are bands supposed to play?
what you are probably objecting to (and where i may agree with you) is that only a certain type of public art and music (i.e. that preferred by guardianista progressives) gets subsidised because all the people who work in public arts policy are a bit like that, which is, in my experience, the case.
b’shalom
bananabrain
I think it’s going to be me and you alone on this one bananbrain!
The vast majority of people who turn up at these festivals go there for the music and to follow a particular band. All of these things have done over the years is make the vast majority of white people feel excluded and branded as racists making them more inclined to vote BNP, this is certainly the feelings coming over on the doorsteps in areas where the BNP is strong.
The whites who turn up are the usual lefties but the majority as I have said are there for the music and not the message. All of these events, like the ridiculous march against racism disorganised by UAF this coming Saturday, are where the converted preach to the converted, it is the unconverted we need to convert.
As with the equally useless Rock Against Racism concert in Victoria Park in 1978 Rise did nothing except “big up” people like Lee Jasper and divert money into people,s pockets, the SWP in particular.
As the event came more under the control of the NAAR/SWP it became more exclusionist, if your face or your politics didn’t fit you were out, as well as more anti semitic. Like you I don’t accept that there is very much of a difference between anti Zionism and good old fashioned Jew hating.
I can’t believe that there are posts here saying that now that the BNP have a member on the GLA there is an even greater need for a festival like this. It is because of events like this, because of the CRE, because of the Ken Livingstones and Lee Jaspers that Richard Barnbrook is sitting in City Hall. Is there anything that you numbskulls don’t understand about that?
Check out http://www.hopenothate.org.uk for activities against the BNP this weekend in Chawell Heath. The BNP have been polling well in the area and there is to be a mass leaflet of the entire ward over the weekend.
Be there or be a self hating white dreadlocked Trotskist with questionable attitudes towards people who say things like “Shalom” and “Oi vey already”.
The Irish are like the Jews, we have a sense of humour and we kick ass!
Bananabrain:
I do think that plenty of art is subsidised because of the politcal or ideological bias of those making the grants. However, even art I like shouldn’t be subsidised from the public purse. To continue with the example of music, some is successful, some isn’t. Why should the public, who probably don’t want the music that didn’t succeed (otherwise they would have paid for it), subsidise it through the tax system? Bands who can’t make it commercially should play for the fun of it, or else find another source of income. Taxes are suppose to pay for police, schools, hospitals, flood defences, not unmade beds.
I don’t believe that art/culture has an automatic right to exist. Some of the greatest paintings and buildings have come about thanks to private funding, whether it was the great Victorian age of infrastructure, or many of the renaissance painters who were commissioned by rich noblemen.
There is a brilliant episode of ‘Yes Minister’ where Jim Hacker is trying to sell an unpopular art gallery to subsidise the local football club. Sir Humphrey, who believes in subsidising opera, art and theatre, but not football is aghast, as he reasons that subsidy is not about what the people want, but about what they don’t want.
Good luck at the festival by the way (I am not anti-festivals, just their funding).
Bananabrain,
“anti-racism is also a label and a brand which has been dominated for far too long by the lee jaspers of the world and is, whether you like it or not, largely preaching to the converted and not actually exposing anyone to new ideas or culture.”
You can’t just assert this. The Rise festival did give voice to varied cultures and ideas, in the music and the stalls, and it wasn’t merely a hive for the far left.
The BNP and the NF have increased their support, while race hate crimes are rising. Certainly, anti-racism is facile and useless as a mere slogan, but it should be promoted in various forms in case bigotry becomes respectable.
“go to a smaller free world music festival and you will see a far less white and far more diverse crowd, hijabis picknicking next to hippies, dreadlock-bearers and families from north london.”
I do, as often as is possible. Varied events are wonderful, and cultural diversity helped to quell the rising ethnic tension of the 1970s. Our culture has never been more diverse than now, however, and bigotry is increasing. Anti-racist events have a proud history in such times. Consider, to refer back to the title, the success of Rock against Racism.
Incidentally, have a very good time playing at the festival.
Respectfully,
Ben
billaricaydicky,
“The BNP have been polling well in the area and there is to be a mass leaflet of the entire ward over the weekend.”
Doing so is similarly overt anti-racism. Nobody is suggesting that one merely screams slogans at a supine crowd. Rise was the largest anti-racism festival in Europe and as such could be used to promote and disseminate genuine information via stalls, speeches etc.
“Like you I don’t accept that there is very much of a difference between anti Zionism and good old fashioned Jew hating.”
There’s no difference between hatred of a group and opposition to a political ideology?
“As with the equally useless Rock Against Racism concert in Victoria Park in 1978 Rise did nothing except “big up” people like Lee Jasper and divert money into people,s pockets, the SWP in particular.”
Rise had very little to do with the SWP. NAAR does contain many members of Socialist Action, but the burden of proof is upon you to show that they have ‘diverted funds’.
“It is because of events like this, because of the CRE, because of the Ken Livingstones and Lee Jaspers that Richard Barnbrook is sitting in City Hall.”
Nonsense. Support for the BNP is rising in various areas throughout Britain. Or is there something similarly between Livingstone’s administration and the governance of Leeds?
“Be there or be a self hating white dreadlocked Trotskist with questionable attitudes towards people who say things like “Shalom” and “Oi vey already”.”
I can’t be, but I wish you the very best of luck.
Respectfully,
Ben
Ah yes we should leave it to the free market because as we all know it always provides such high quality culture and art…
@billericaydicky:
precisely - the sort of people who don’t go to marches and the sort of people who don’t respond to sloganeering and leafleting of the type that is so popular with islamo-trot “progressives”.
from islamo-trots, perhaps - and that has certainly been my experience, that anyone but completely assimilated “cultural” jews (like IJV) are excluded from the discussion; however, i do accept (and often join in) criticism of israeli government policy, nobody should be above that. i’m not saying it is always like that, it’s just that israel is such a convenient whipping boy for islamo-trots, as it’s about the only thing they both agree on.
i don’t have the experience of campaigning of some, but i wouldn’t be at all surprised if this were true.
er… i’ve never said “oi vey already” in my life, nor has anyone else i know. “shalom” is rather different, but i hardly use it in everyday conversation.
@BenSix:
i’m not the one asserting it. far more eminent and credible people than myself are asserting it far more effectively. it appears to bolster my empirical experience which, i accept, is not the be-all and end-all.
i agree, which is why i think “celebrating diversity” is a good idea, which is what boris appears to be doing. i think this covers off anti-racism in a soft, non-political way quite effectively which is, after all, about all a music festival is really able to achieve:
what i am saying is that if i am inclined to be racist, i don’t see how being exhorted not to be by a pop star is going to help that much. going along to somewhere where you can have a new experience that you couldn’t get by watching tv (as opposed to seeing, say, jamelia, not that i have anything against her) and mix with different people, all enjoying stuff, is about as much as i really believe you can hope for. anything more interactive will inevitably exclude the non-ideologues.
er…. i don’t believe speeches are the best way to get this across - and stalls can be walked past. this is the same old useless methods of engagement that have failed to work. it is time to try something more creative and new and drop this papering over the cracks.
of course there is. unfortunately, it’s often quite tough to spot as israelis are boycotted due to their nationality, not their stated political views and jews are attacked verbally and physically as presumed supporters of the occupation; presumably you also object when the visibly muslim are attacked verbally and physically as presumed supporters of islamist extremism? either way, it is the person on the receiving end that has a tough time working out precisely why they are being sworn at or hit.
b’shalom
bananabrain
The state/taxpayers shouldn’t fund any cultural events ever.
Rubbish - arts and culture are Public Goods.
not a junket for all of ken’s hard-left cronies.
Oh right… so you wouldn’t have any problem with people opposing Boris or his ideas just because its Boris and his hard-right cronies?
Look at the arguments bananabrain, please stop having visions of Socialist Action everywhere just because cerain people keep repeating those words like a mantra.
n “motherhood and apple pie” issues like anti-racism,
But that motherhood and apple pie position seemed to play a big part in your vote for London Mayor… right?
As with the equally useless Rock Against Racism concert in Victoria Park in 1978 Rise did nothing except “big up” people like Lee Jasper and divert money into people,s pockets, the SWP in particular
Umm.. yeah Bill - thanks for your position. Its quite clear, and obviously I think you’re barking mad.
Why? Why is an umade bed or interpretative dance or impressionist painting more worthy of taxpayers’ money then anti-cancer drugs or body armour?
Apparently he’s getting a kicking in the letters page of the Hackney Gazette recently so you have to feel sorry for him.
Since when did we have to choose? And again how will art and culture flourish if only corporations have the money to fund it?
@sunny:
i hope not. i remember you’ve pointed out a couple of things about some cronies of his from policy exchange, but nobody has so far pointed to anything actually unproductive and unpragmatic which is being done for doctrinaire reasons by people personally favoured by the mayor, as opposed to qualified for the job, please tell me if i’m not right. the thing is, i’m talking about what is agreed to have *historically* occurred under ken’s administrations, not about what *might* occur under boris’ administration - it does feel a teensy bit like whataboutery, though, without that. obviously we would both agree that there has to be a certain level of political appointee, but i feel that that was widely abused under ken and we would presumably both expect boris to clean house a bit, but equally, i would be happy if i could see boris keeping someone one who was clearly effective in spite of being a crony of ken’s - examples are welcome.
on some issues i would say you had a point, but this is one issue where i am actually working in the field, at the sharp end and i can see the damage being done there by idiots like lee jasper, who i met once at city hall in the course of my musical work and who came across as an arrogant windbag with a 70s-vocabulary agenda completely divorced from the reality of the projects that he was addressing. he assumed, for example, that all world music is done by “black” people who are disadvantaged, uneducated, live in the inner city, vote labour and need help filling in forms. what about the chinese? the jews? the nigerians? the arabs? the fact is that the world had moved and it was painfully obvious that public policy was overwhelmingly paternalist and aimed at doling out cash and favours to the sort of people that make “ethnic” furniture for guardianistas, perpetuating a begging-bowl culture whilst completely *failing* to do anything to improve the necessary infrastructure for live music, which was in hock to property developers (more friends of ken) and the very well-funded mainstream music industry, pricing it out of reach of normal musicians. this doesn’t happen elsewhere in the world. ken has done nothing to help. perhaps boris should be given the opportunity to do better.
nope. it was time for a change. ken was too comfortable and too arrogant to change his strategy. he needed a kick up the backside. or am i misconstruing what you mean? please to explaining.
@rumbold:
i understand the point and do, to a certain degree, sympathise, but again, this happens because the quangos that control these things are unappointed and controlled by self-perpetuating cliques appointed by their political friends, thus have preconceived tastes. really, we ought to experiment with methods of getting non-establishment people onto them, like non-execs, y’know. more to the point, though, the mayor can’t fund anti-cancer drugs or body armour (which are clearly not social goods) but can fund arts and transport. social goods are always tough to fund because unfortunately, it’s hard to do without technocratic judgement.
and rich people, of course. i agree with leon.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Leon:
Government only has scarce resources. At the time when people are dying in England because of a lack of certain drugs on the NHS, it is obscene that money should be handed over to the arts. I said corporations and individuals should fund what they want, rather than let the government be the arbiter of taste. If nobody wants to pay for it, why should the public foot the bill? Governments don’t fund blogs, and they seem to get by.
Maybe its because “racist” has been used as a smear by certain sections of the liberal-left so often that it has been utterly devalued? Never!
Bananabrain:
I was talking about arts funding generally. The mayor should then either get less money, or use it on more useful projects. I am not convinced that society benefits from spending on arts more than it would on so many other things. If I was in government, I would immediatly abolish the department for culture, media and sport, and refuse to give the Olympics one penny of public money.
I can’t see what was wrong with Mirza’s post; whilst the original ‘rock against racism’ concerts in decades gone by arguably had a point the social and political landscape has changed dramatically. It is quite simply patronising to have to attend a ‘music event’ that is tagged with a vague message that ‘racism is wrong’.
Well yes it is, but the complexity of life in modern day society cannot commented upon and thought about whilst you’re trying to listen to a band play. I’d class any rock against racism ‘concert’ as being as pointless as live8 or any other ‘rock against poverty’ event.
It reduces social issues to the level of banal advertising, people don’t need to be reminded about important issues - especially in an age of global communication. Its as idiotic as tagging primiership matches with social awareness slogans (Man Utd vs Arsenal: STI awareness match).
Its all no different to and as shallow as american networks that mix news and entertainment.
Historically yes. Almost all art that was revolutionary, enlightening and interesting in the past was comissioned by and for the consumption of private patrons.
If you widen the scope beyond graphic art and specifically focus in on art in music in present day life, the overwhelming majority of music that is produced by artists is done so by the private sector.
Ultimately it is only the freedom of the markets that ensure that the art that is produced in a given society isn’t the result of ‘averaging and toning down’ by politically influenced committees. Some of the most noteable and controversial exibitions in recent British history (Saatchi’s Sensation etc) have been put up by the private sector, and there is simply no way the government or public sector would have done anything similar.
Id argue the British art scene over the last 15 years - inclusive of all artistic expression - has been flourishing, further more it was overwhelmingly funded by the ‘private sector’.
Exactly Kulvinder. What I was saying, but with more panache.
I agree with her, there will always be some level of support for the BNP, the point is the far right has never looked anywhere near as strong as it did in the late 70s.
There is no evidence of racism becoming more socially acceptable.
Can’t see Banksy agreeing with that…
Bananabrain,
“far more eminent and credible people than myself are asserting it far more effectively.”
Then cite them. Mirza’s article is not an effective piece.
“what i am saying is that if i am inclined to be racist, i don’t see how being exhorted not to be by a pop star is going to help that much.”
Here I should set out what I’d hope an anti-racism festival would entail. In my mind, it should include stalls (and maybe even seminars) giving information on the causes of bigotry, the proliferation of bigotry and the victims of bigotry. Obviously, most would attend for the entertainment, but this is the same of all events/charity concerts.
“this is the same old useless methods of engagement that have failed to work. it is time to try something more creative and new and drop this papering over the cracks.”
I note that you fail to make suggestions. To repeat, our culture is more diverse than ever before, and yet ethnic hatred is becoming more widespread.
“unfortunately, it’s often quite tough to spot as israelis are boycotted due to their nationality, not their stated political views and jews are attacked verbally and physically as presumed supporters of the occupation; presumably you also object when the visibly muslim are attacked verbally and physically as presumed supporters of islamist extremism?”
Boycotts are a rather more complex issue - and it would be derailing the thread to begin a debate - but I agree that such prejudice towards individuals is vile. I am, however, not a zionist and believe that most people holding this view do so for moral and intellectual reasons rather than bigotry.
Kulvinder,
“It reduces social issues to the level of banal advertising, people don’t need to be reminded about important issues - especially in an age of global communication. Its as idiotic as tagging primiership matches with social awareness slogans (Man Utd vs Arsenal: STI awareness match).”
Nobody has suggested that anti-racism should be limited to a banner or the occasional shout of “fascist BNP”.
“I agree with her, there will always be some level of support for the BNP, the point is the far right has never looked anywhere near as strong as it did in the late 70s.”
The BNP have a member in the London Assembly and numerous councillors throughout Britain, the NF received five digit votes in London and racist violence is rising. On the continent, we can see a proliferation of bigotry throughout Italy, and to a lesser extent in Germany.
Unitalian,
Don’t be so silly.
Respectfully,
Ben
“Can’t see Banksy agreeing with that…”
Banksy isn’t art.
Grouchily,
Ben
Yes he bloody is!
I totally agree. Every time Rage Against the Machine talked about racial inequality or Beastie Boys banged on about freeing Tibet, it made me sick to see these white bastards dare to talk about issues that don’t concern them. Let them talk about proper white issues like jam or cream with tea cakes and leave racism to us
Speaking as a Scot, can I complain about the lack of bagpipe music at Rise?
Seriously, I think Sunny is being way too harsh on Munira Mirza. Her article sets out a coherent case for a less political music festival. The big differece between Rock Against Racism and today’s Rise is that RAR was a privately conceived and financed venture - it’s a free country and anyone can organise a protest gig - whereas Rise is a local government event, paid for by the taxpayer.
Imagine if Boris handed Rise over to the Monday Club who then invited the pro-regime Burma Solidarity Campaign to run a stage and the Countryside Alliance to run stalls and hand out literature? We’d regard it as an outrageous abuse of public money.
Opposition to racism is the natural position of all decent people but ‘anti-racism’ has become a political trojan horse for all kinds of dodgy dogmas of the very kind that Sunny set up New Generation Network to oppose. I’ve been to every Rise/Respect bar one and I can tell you that it used to attract more people from ethnic minorities, including a significant number of young black people, but in the last couple of years fewer have turned up. Perhaps that’s a reflection of the artistes performing but I can’t help but agree that the hordes of political activists flogging papers and rattling collecting tins for Venezuela may have played a part too, not to mention Lee Jasper lecturing us from the main stage.
From where I’m standing, Munira Mirza is doing a pretty good job so far and it’s sad that Sunny feels the need to keep sniping at her.
“bananabrain agrees with kulvinder shock!!!!”
kulvinder, you have for once put it far better than i ever could. mashaallah! zindabad!
@rumbold:
the trouble with this approach is that first of all you lose the bbc (which you might quite like to do, of course) and second of all it immediately runs into the objection that the NHS wastes all sorts of money on non-medical costs such as accountants, HR and marketing, far more than is spent on the arts, which is a drop in the bucket in comparison, although the bbc cannot use this defence, especially when the licence fee is apparently funding jonathan ross’ new £40k morgan. in fact, all considered, the bbc is a far better target for your indignation than public music and arts. and the trouble with the NHS objection is of course, from my memory of time spent working in it, that according to the “producer interests”, “all money not spent on frontline healthcare is waste”, but the same producer interests don’t want to do any of their own admin, which includes the stuff that makes them accountable for their actions. you have to have accountants if you want accountability and you have to have marketing if users of the NHS are going to behave like consumers. but that’s a separate argument, i believe.
rumbold, i’m astonished at you. a blog is free, downloadable software, the only cost is the time you spend writing and a negligible administrative overhead. live music requires a venue (£) security (£) musicians (£) equipment (£) rehearsal space (£) all of which require the participation of paid professionals, apart from the actual musicians, except when you expect professional musicians to be included. it is far more expensive than any other form of art. furthermore, part of my job is to get business cases developed and approved and i can tell you that corporations (e.g. record companies) will *not* fund anything that is risky, controversial, unprofitable, does not support their brand values or hasn’t been tried before. individuals will fund only what fulfils their personal aesthetic criterias and whims. between those two sources of funding you get nothing other than the trendy tracy-emin-type stuff you detest and the mainstream commercial MoR stuff like anything that comes out of “the x factor”. most music, particularly anything edgy, uncommercial or without a defined market simply can’t get a hearing. recorded music has already gone “free”, in the age of downloads, myspace and social networking. the reason i am not a professional musician is that you can’t make a living at it unless you are that one in a million who makes it big. i have a job which pays my bills, so i subsidise my own activity. with that said, i simply cannot afford to promote my own concerts, that needs a professional. where are bands supposed to play? pub and club owners are only interested in the relationship between bar sales and music and are dissuaded from taking any risks by the ease of a DJ and a laptop. i am not suggesting governments should *run* music, only that they should make it possible that it happens, which, unfortunately, inevitably involves some form of public funding. remember, even hi-tech startups require angel investors and seed funding - music is no different. graphic art is different - you get a piece of art to keep, point at and put in your lobby or on your wall. music is ephemeral, it is a service not a product. the reasons corporates can fund art and not music is because art is more tangible than music is.
b’shalom
bananabrain
It’s all Bob Geldof’s fault. And U2. Which spawned Coldplay. And now Al Gore gets to play at being Michael Eavis.
Music isn’t a tool for politicians.
“Yes he bloody is!”
Damn well isn’t (although the very fact that we can’t advance this debate shows that darned old subjectivity has won out again).
“Every time Rage Against the Machine talked about racial inequality or Beastie Boys banged on about freeing Tibet, it made me sick to see these white bastards dare to talk about issues that don’t concern them.”
Again, anti-racism need not be as simplistic as RATM style sloganeering. It can adopt many forms, and Rise was and could still be an excellent platform for these.
“Perhaps that’s a reflection of the artistes performing but I can’t help but agree that the hordes of political activists flogging papers and rattling collecting tins for Venezuela may have played a part too, not to mention Lee Jasper lecturing us from the main stage.”
Rise has been given subsidies since 2000.
Incidentally, I wouldn’t mind if Boris decided that NAAR were unsuitable to run an anti-racism festival. The fact remains that Rise was the largest such event in Europe, and it’s dreadful to abandon its theme so blithely.
“From where I’m standing, Munira Mirza is doing a pretty good job so far and it’s sad that Sunny feels the need to keep sniping at her.”
The article was a terrible one. There is a very interesting debate to be had on the merits of overt anti-racism against the promotion of diversity, but Munira Mirza hasn’t added to it with her fallacies and sophistry.
Respectfully,
Ben
“It’s all Bob Geldof’s fault. And U2. Which spawned Coldplay. And now Al Gore gets to play at being Michael Eavis.”
Yes, they are all quite irritating. But then again - despite admirably politicising many - they are all resolutely simplistic.
I also blame the former trio for some terrible music.
Respectfully,
Ben
Ben - when you say that Munira Mirza’s article was ‘terrible’ what you really mean is that you didn’t agree with it or the decision it announced. Name one assertion she made that was unfair or untrue.
@BenSix:
seems perfectly effective to me. there are plenty of people on this thread alone who seem able to recognise that she has a point. you’re accusing her of sophistry, but you twist and turn like a twisty-turny thing.
oh, *yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn*. you can’t be serious.
look, music gives you a feeling of vague universal goodwill, rather like celebrating diversity does. it isn’t a detailed programme for social change. my suggestion is that the financial disincentives to live music performance be removed - that means local government does something about it - and that venues offering live music be given tax breaks. on the ethnic hatred front, a scheme for twinning every single ethnic community centre, mosque and church with another temple, synagogue or gurdwara be implemented. tax breaks for these institutions would be conditional upon a coherent programme of interfaith dialogue and wider community work (i.e. not just their own people). i wouldn’t necessarily bother linking the two unless it involved a public (ie free) world music or arts festival.
how good of you. i’d say “many”, rather than “most”, but i don’t think i think they’re the problem.
but it *will* be. musicians are not a subtle bunch - rock stars are not known for their nuances.
@ian:
precisely!
*claps loudly*
@kismet:
hur hur hur. exactly - when what he should really worry about is manbearpig.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Sorry, I should have given a link - http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2008/06/17/whitewashing/
Respectfully,
Ben
That’s where we get into silly politics: Finsbury Park is the most harmonious multicultural places around in London. It is a joy to see all sorts of people enjoying a sunny day in the park: young English families with babies in trolleys, along side with Turks playing football, and seeing Somali kids running around with south American kids.
Having the BNP cry victory over removing “anti-racist” banner in a freakin concert in Finsbury Park is as silly as getting upset over it. I do agree that such events do make a difference - but why not organise anti-racist concerts in Oldham to stick it to the BNP?
Having to dodge NFers at the school gates in the late 70s and early 80s, the Rock against Racism concerts was a godsend to many of us who went to all-white schools. Ghost Town by The Specials was the high point at one particular gig in Leeds.
If I’m not wrong, RAR was a direct result of both Eric Clapton and David Bowie’s overtures to fascism, which was just so hypocritical as both owed so much to black music.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/rock-against-racism-remembering-that-gig-that-started-it-all-815054.html
bananabrain,
“seems perfectly effective to me. there are plenty of people on this thread alone who seem able to recognise that she has a point. you’re accusing her of sophistry, but you twist and turn like a twisty-turny thing.”
I’ve already commented upon it in the links above, and if you disagree with those comments then feel free to say so. It would also be polite to illustrate my ‘twisty-turny’ behaviour.
“oh, *yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn*. you can’t be serious.”
I am. Information on the victims or ethnic hatred and those that actively foster it is important if we are to recognise and isolate it in society.
“it isn’t a detailed programme for social change. ”
I’m quite aware of that. Neither, indeed, are most forms of activism.
“tax breaks for these institutions would be conditional upon a coherent programme of interfaith dialogue and wider community work (i.e. not just their own people).”
A very interesting idea, and certainly worth exploring.
- What would the community work entail? Obviously, attendance to religious institutions is extremely low in Britain and so it would have to affect society at large.
- What would this ‘dialogue’ entail? There are numerous attempts to foster interfaith relations in Britain.*
- As with the beginning of active multiculturalism, this would be a long-term plan. Other actions would have to be taken as, indeed, many would see this as the attempts of minority religions to ingratiate themselves into society.
“how good of you.”
It’s not an attitude that I have to make an effort to hold.
“but it *will* be. musicians are not a subtle bunch - rock stars are not known for their nuances.”
I’m perplexed - rock stars do not organise the events that they play at.
“precisely!”
I must repeat again that altering the organisation of the festival does not necessitate abandoning the theme.
Respectfully,
Ben
* http://www.interfaith.org.uk/
“I do agree that such events do make a difference - but why not organise anti-racist concerts in Oldham to stick it to the BNP where it mostly hurts?”
Now that is an interesting idea, although it would also have to be informational. Little comes from screaming “racist BNP”.
Respectfully,
Ben
Leon,
Is it because we am white? You are confusing me with an old friend, Terry Fitzpatrick. I live in Essex, he lives in Hackney. We met during the anti NF campaigns of the 70s and have been mates ever since.
I bump into him every so often and we talk about the crap that is going on at the moment posing as anti racism.
I despair of some of the people posting here including banabrain. Humour is a great way of deflating egos which is why I use it, I think!
Banabrain, if there were to be only two books on my shelf to sum up civilisation they would be the greatest joke books of the Irish and the Jews. I rest my case already.
I had my ego surgically removed years ago, I had a sense of humour implanted in it’s place. Bump Bump as Basil Brush would say. Leon, look at the letters page of the Hackney Gazette today. A challenge I think.
I don’t doubt it, but within the context of the event thats all it would be. People would and did turn up for the bands, after all if they didn’t the line-up could exclusively consist of non-signed artists. As such the main focus would be the music, and ‘messages’ would be little more than a few words at the end of songs or between acts - or seperate from the music (which again begs the question; why have a concert?!).
You’re trying to fool the people; lure them in with the music and hit them over the head with a message.
I accept such tactics work on novel causes that need publicity, but it is a shallow and pointless thing to do over any period of time. We’ll agree to disagree on the the far right making any sort of ‘comeback’ (lest this topic deteriorate into stat linking); but im curious about this: How do you juxtapose the belief that these types of events are beneficial AND that the far right are making a comeback. At the very least there seems to be a tacit acceptance that these tactics - which have been used for decades - are no longer effective.
I completely agree with you that Banksy isn’t an artist of any worth. Obligatory Charlie Brooker article
“How do you juxtapose the belief that these types of events are beneficial AND that the far right are making a comeback.”
Oh, I don’t for a moment believe that events such as Rise are an end in themselves, and - as Live 8 was depressingly imagined to be “the end of all poverty” - they shouldn’t be considered as such. Rather, such events are merely a part of a widespread campaign, with the scope allowing for varied forms of anti-racism to be promoted.
“I completely agree with you that Banksy isn’t an artist of any worth. Obligatory Charlie Brooker article”
Hehe, yes, I did enjoy that article. Even funnier are the comments saying “Hang on Charlie, we expect you to be critical but BANKSY!”
“Humour is a great way of deflating egos which is why I use it, I think!”
Hmm…a fair point, but it can often be confusing:
“Well, I note several logical fallacies in your deployment of the term ‘boom boom’.”
Respectfully,
Ben
Incidentally, I’ve used the term “celebrating diversity” which is regrettable. Giving platform to diversity should be enough.
Ben
i thought i had.
a tongue in cheek blackadderism, if you’ll permit me. i say you’re a weedy pigeon - and you can call me susan if it ain’t so.
that, presumably, is why so much activism is indistinguishable from venting.
i think the burden of activism is on the religious communities themselves, to prove their value to society and show their worth and validity. there’s too much special pleading - let’s have some social contributions.
oh, i know all about it. most of them are talking shops (not that there’s anything wrong with that necessarily) or operate at the ceremonial or practitioner level; there is very little at the grassroots, notable exceptions include alif-alef and the hackney muslim-jewish forum. with twinning, the groups involved would have to work out how to work together, which should bring them together - the dialogue would happen by default.
good! minority religions need to ingratiate themselves a bit more. society does not owe them respect by default, particularly if they do nothing but yell and scream and demand that everyone not upset them.
it does if the theme has become tainted by association, which “anti-racism” has imo. lecturing them in oldham wouldn’t work either, but getting community groups out there clearing litter from the streets or doing volunteer gardening in the parks would.
billericaydicky:
er, ok. i don’t find “oy vey my boy already” jokes very amusing, i’m afraid.
that would be an ecumenical matter. perhaps you should try the following:
“sadie, what a lovely bunch of flowers!”
“ah, but zelda, what i have to do to get such flowers you don’t know .”
“nu, so what happens?”
“yes, the minute my husband comes home with such flowers i know what happens next - up i go, into the bedroom, lie on my back with my legs in the air….”
“so, what, you don’t have a *vase*?”
exactly, which is why it gets institutionalised and taken over by professional grievance-politicians.
b’shalom
bananabrain
[...] Comment on Rock Against Racism was a bad idea then? by BenSix Incidentally, I’ve used the term “celebrating diversity” which is regrettable. Giving platform to diversity should be enough. [...]
bananabrain,
“i thought i had.”
No, you’ve reiterated your support an element of her message.
“i say you’re a weedy pigeon - and you can call me susan if it ain’t so.”
Do you really want to align your debating skills with Melchett’s?
“i think the burden of activism is on the religious communities themselves, to prove their value to society and show their worth and validity.”
Possibly, but what would this community activism entail? If you are referring to charitable work then the insitutions would not be taxed anyway.
“there’s too much special pleading - let’s have some social contributions.”
Damn straight.
“good! minority religions need to ingratiate themselves a bit more.”
Indeed. My point was that it would anger many who perceive muslims to be employing entryist tactics. This, obviously, absolutely no reason not to support such an initiative but it would be side-product.
“it does if the theme has become tainted by association, which “anti-racism” has imo.”
I have to admit that I’ve seen little reason to adopt this view.
“lecturing them in oldham wouldn’t work either, but getting community groups out there clearing litter from the streets or doing volunteer gardening in the parks would.”
I was unclear in my support. I don’t believe that there should be particular emphasis on slogans or marches, but demonstrations and initiatives such as that you have proposed.
As I’ve said before, festivals such as Rise should only be part of a wider - and far more diverse - campaign. The scope of it gives the opportunity for various mediums of information and demonstration.
Respectfully,
Ben
good! minority religions need to ingratiate themselves a bit more. society does not owe them respect by default, particularly if they do nothing but yell and scream and demand that everyone not upset them.
This thread lives and dies by that comment alone.
And what Munira Mirza said.
“This thread lives and dies by that comment alone.”
There’s is an argument to be made for making certain demands to institutions that receive benefits/subsidies - I would argue for it.
Then again, the comment does seem to be weighted rather heavily against one particular minority religion, doesn’t it.
Respectfully,
BenSix
Then again, the comment does seem to be weighted rather heavily against one particular minority religion, doesn’t it.
Do you mean the one that tends (rather more than others) to yell and scream and demand that everyone not upset them ?
Yes it probably is.
I have no problem with (small scale) public subsidy for public art such as Rise.
Far better that than the Royal Opera House - Glyndebourne has shown that it is perfectly possible for a wholly private operation to produce opera of the very highest quality.
And far far far far far better that than the ****ing Olympics!
please stop having visions of Socialist Action everywhere just because cerain people keep repeating those words like a mantra
Unfortunately the NAAR is an offshoot of Socialist Action, at least according to the knowledgeable David T.
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/06/18/rise/#comments
“Socialist Action can hardly complain that it has been left off the bill. And there is certainly the argument that many of London’s newest arrivals, from Eastern Europe, might be put off by the cheerleaders for one of the world’s last surviving Communist autocracies.”
Not only London’s newest arrivals either!
“Do you mean the one that tends (rather more than others) to yell and scream and demand that everyone not upset them ?”
a) In that case it would be better for people not to insinuate. If one wants to make a point then one should make it clearly.
b) I know that I’ll be called a relativist, but on this issue you shouldn’t assert that so confidently.
http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/springer12.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/09/AR2007010901279.html
http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2008/05/nadine_dorries_4.asp
“Unfortunately the NAAR is an offshoot of Socialist Action”
A lot of members of Socialist Action are in NAAR, yes. I wasn’t given any evidence that the latter pursues the formers agenda, but that isn’t integral to this debate.
“And far far far far far better that than the ****ing Olympics!”
Amen to that.
Respectfully,
Ben
I did say “rather more than others” not “the only one”.
And I doubt if the producers of Jerry Springer ever felt they might have been in physical danger.
“And I doubt if the producers of Jerry Springer ever felt they might have been in physical danger.”
“Guards were last night protecting the homes of two senior BBC executives as complaints from Christian groups at Saturday’s showing of Jerry Springer - The Opera escalated into threats of violence.
The corporation employed a private security firm, Rubicon International, to safeguard the homes of the BBC2 controller, Roly Keating, and the director of television, Jana Bennett.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/jan/10/broadcasting.bbc
Respectfully,
Ben
I hadn’t seen that!!
Were any British embassies attacked?!
“Were any British embassies attacked?!”
No, but then I was referring to religious activities in Britain - as I assumed you and Bananabrain were.
Respectfully,
Ben
http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2008/06/19/man-of-detail-asks-bbc-london-two-months-too-late/
“The astonishing moment came when Boris was asked, some time in the past few days I assume, about the erasure of the anti-racism message from the Rise festival. His response?
“Are you sure? Er-ah, of course, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be great, whatever happens will be great.”
The reporter then put it to him that the statement, that we don’t need an anti-racist theme, was meant to reflect his views about communities and diversity. He looked mystified throughout, and replied:
“Well, er, that’s, those are your words, not mine. I, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be wonderful.”
So he hadn’t instructed anyone that that should be removed - we shouldn’t change the theme of it?
“I haven’t… I haven’t… I certainly haven’t seen anything to that effect, and I’m sure it’s going to be a wonderful festival.”
So he wouldn’t have a problem with it continuing its anti-racist theme, given that that was what its history had been, this summer festival?
“Yeah, sounds fine to me.”"
Imagine if Boris handed Rise over to the Monday Club who then invited the pro-regime Burma Solidarity Campaign to run a stage and the Countryside Alliance to run stalls and hand out literature? We’d regard it as an outrageous abuse of public money.
Oh, but he does. The right wingers just have more respectable sounding organisations.
There was a good piece by Adam Bienkov here:
http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/06/09/boris-johnsons-cronies-to-the-rescue-of-cronyism/
Read it and weep. But you probably won’t, because they don’t sound like ’socialist action’, which has hilariously become the biggest undercover operation since the Red Army.
And the BorisWatch.co.uk guys, linked above, are great too.
Thanks!
In any case, Boris has nothing to do with this debate. The whole furore came as a complete surprise to him*.
*http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2008/06/19/man-of-detail-asks-bbc-london-two-months-too-late/
Banabrain,
Don’t tell me like Mike Rosen, another Hackney Trot and children’s poet lauriet, or Prof Stone you have become a self hating Jew. One of the greatest things that has sustained Jewish people is the ability to mock themselves, and in doing so those who oppressesd them.
As soon as I saw your post I rushed upstairs to the library, I was only on the second floor at the time, to get my copy of the ” World’s best Jewish Jokes” and yours is in it! Already!
Did you hear about the Jewish kamikazi pilot? He crashed his plane into a scrap yard!
How do you know when an American Jewish Princess has an orgasm. She drops her nail file!
Two Jews are in front of the firing squad. They are offered blindfolds. One refuses it with a curse. The other says, ” Ssh! Don’t make trouble!”
The maths teacher points to the back of the class and asks young Abie ” What’s four per cent?”
Abie shakes his head and replies “Your right, what’s four per cent?”
And now folks it’s time for the pub, but before I go a somewhat sophisticated Irish joke!
Somewhere during the sixties down the Cromwell Rd in West London two Culshies ( thats West of Ireland men to yous ijits) were digging a trench.
A Texan,straight off the plane,looks down the hole and says ” Where I come from we have to work to one millioneth of an inch”. Paddy looks up and says, ” Ah sure you’d never get a job here, we have to be spot on”
I,ll be talkin to yis agin in the mornin. Leon, all quiet with you son!
why do Socialist Action only drink Typhoo?
Because proper tea is theft.
BenSix - i just read that blog! That’s incredible! Why is the blood BBC footage not working? We need that stuff on Youtube! is it still on iplayer?
In four years time Boris is going to be re-elected with a thumping majority and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. Why? Because people like him.
How does that make you feel, Sunny?
The right wingers just have more respectable sounding organisations.
This sounds like something a student would say.
But if you can’t see how inviting a group which supports the Cuban monarchy might put some people off, say those who actually grew up under eastern european communism…
Ben - is Boris supposed to be involved in the design or even the approval of a music festival poster?
I suspect most voters - who will never have heard of Rise in the first place - would rather that he was doing something else.
Like sorting out who really *will* pay for the inevitable Olympics overspend. A minor detail which Ken rather carelessly forgot to nail down on his way to Olympic glory. He’s already admitted he knew the “budget” was a lie, hasn’t he?
It was Ken’s apparent obsession with that kind of thing (Rise) - together with the unattractive people whom he put in charge of running it - which put a lot of people off him wasn’t it?
“Why is the blood BBC footage not working? We need that stuff on Youtube! is it still on iplayer?”
It’s up, but technological dyslexia won’t allow me to do anything with it. Grab somebody with interweb knowledge - they might know.
“In four years time Boris is going to be re-elected with a thumping majority and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. Why? Because people like him.”
There are reasons to hold scepticism about your apparent psychic powers.
“Ben - is Boris supposed to be involved in the design or even the approval of a music festival poster?”
It’s the entire theme of the festival that has been changed, not merely the poster. And yes, he should be aware of it.
“Like sorting out who really *will* pay for the inevitable Olympics overspend. A minor detail which Ken rather carelessly forgot to nail down on his way to Olympic glory.”
I have no kind words for Ken’s treatment of the London Olympics - or, indeed, his support for their existence - but Boris is certainly no better. In a recent Radio London interview he said that he doubted the existence of an important - though flawed - Memorandum of Understanding, which was freely available on the internet.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jun/19/london.boris
Respectfully,
Ben
Incidentally, it has been confirmed that Boris didn’t know about the changes to the Rise festival even after it had been reported.
Respectfully,
Ben
I especially liked this bit of the memo (my italics):
d) The sourcing of the (additional) £300 million is a matter for the Mayor but the Mayor has confirmed that it will not be found from either an increase in the Council Tax precept or an increase in Fares. The Mayor is examining a range of approaches for meeting the £300 million.
LOL!
How many London voters are worried by the change in theme of an event of which they have almost certainly never heard?
This may be of concern to students (sorry!) but not to many others.
I suspect most people, if told Boris wasn’t bothered about it, would either be indifferent or say “good”.
“LOL!”
Well, at least - unlike Boris - you could find the bloody thing.
“How many London voters are worried by the change in theme of an event of which they have almost certainly never heard?”
Bring back those goalposts when you’re done with them.
Respectfully,
Ben
Incidentally, a good indication of an argument lost is the debator using a capitalised ‘lol’ and an exclamation mark. It’s the same for Mighty Boosh fans and Conservatives alike
Ben
Moved goalposts?
You’re saying: Boris didn’t know about the Rise change.
How terrible.
I’m saying: so what?
I’ll drop the LOL! in future - but that paragraph did actually make me laugh!
At least we’re on the same side wrt the Olympics.
“I’m saying: so what?”
Very quickly..
- His administation gives substantial funds to the Rise festival, and therefore he has a responsibility towards it.
- It was an intervention from his administration that removed the anti-racism message from Rise. He had not only taken no part in this, but wasn’t actually aware of it.
- The decision had already been announced, and debated, in the press/blogosphere.
- Munira Mirza, his cultural adviser, had written a column on it.
- When questioned, he contradicted the actions of his own administration, saying that an anti-racism message at Rise “sounds fine to me”.
- It adds further strength to the “empty vessel” accusation made during the Mayor’s Question Time.
“I’ll drop the LOL! in future”
Sorry, it’s a personal phobia. Sit in a sixth-form common room and count the lols.
“At least we’re on the same side wrt the Olympics.”
We are indeed. A vindication for pessimism.
Respectfully,
Ben
bensix:
ok then - i find munira mirza’s critique of the current situation convincing. i find your critique of her article at all convincing.
better a “lapdog to a slip of a girl” than a…..git.
there are loads of carrots and sticks that can be used on this, i presume you’re not expecting me to outline an entire social policy strategy on a blog.
look at some of the coverage of the UN durban anti-racism conference, or indeed at any campus anti-racist activism and you’ll see what i mean.
you mean am i, a jew, singling out muslims? the answer is well, no, not especially. neither am i flinching from pointing out that it is customary for ethno-religious minorities to try and contribute as well as complain. we are no exception to this rule, the difference being is that we are generally held up as the paradigm of a well-integrated, productive minority, but of course, we have been here for 400 years, so it has taken some time. on the other hand, i like “christian voice” about as much as you probably do and find their contention that they are entitled to particular indulgence especially unconvincing.
*claps loudly*
as for everyone screaming about what boris may or may not think about rise, it should hardly be his biggest priority. the guy’s only been in the job a month or so, for feck’s sake. post #67 says it better than me. however, i think he should give his press secretary or whoever preps him for press conferences a kick up the bum for not prepping him well enough.
and as for boris’s cronyism, all this seems to amount to so far is kicking out a lot of ken’s cronies and replacing them with his own - but this doesn’t seem excessive to me at least not so far. i do take the point, though i would suggest at least waiting for some evidence of the *effect* before condemning everything wholesale.
@billericaydicky:
i don’t think anyone could describe me as “self-hating”, or resembling mike rosen in any way, shape or form. however, in terms of humour, the jewish stereotypes that the likes of jackie mason, for example, draw upon, together with the examples you’ve given (apart from the 4% one, which made me snort) are approximately as amusing to me as “where am dat warty melon massa boss” would be to say, darcus howe, or a “bud bud” accent to pretty much anyone here. obviously some people find this sort of thing amusing, but i’m not one of them.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Bananabrain:
It would be one of the first things to be privatised under my rule.
I think that is a different point though, as I don’t agree with NHS waste either.
I needed to develop my point. Blogs don’t receive any government funding, nor has there been calls for it, nor do they need it. People blog because they enjoy it. But, if the government suddenly decided to subsidise blogging, then threatened to withdraw the funding twenty years later, there would be an unroar about the “death of blogging”, because bloggers would have got used to suckling on the taxpayers’ teat, and would know no other way. I accept that there are more costs with live music, but you are let to convince me why the taxpayer should subsidise music.
bananabrain,
Firstly - sorry, I didn’t see that you’d replied.
“there are loads of carrots and sticks that can be used on this, i presume you’re not expecting me to outline an entire social policy strategy on a blog.”
No, I was merely interested. Obviously, various tactics could be employed in reducing bigotry.
“you mean am i, a jew”
Nope, I don’t judge the views of a debater by their religion/ethnicity.
“the answer is well, no, not especially.”
In that case, I retract the statement and am sorry. In my, admittedly limited, experience there is only one ‘minority religion’ that commentators accuse of “yell[ing] and scream[ing] and demand[ing] that everyone not upset them”.
Incidentally, how did the leafleting go?
Ben