Warm smooches from Kathmandu if you are not in the best of humours as of late. MWAH.

“so what if he did Desi? Its not like you have a particular identity you relate to right?”

Ha, you think you pulled one over me, but you didn’t!

Dude, calling people ‘greasy wops’ is fucked up, whether it’s to an Italian or not. Didn’t I just expand in comments #13, #18, and #19 on how I would be offended if I heard any derogatory names, even if I do not identify with them?

It’s unbecoming of you to try to pull one over people to make your brownie point, arguing falsely that I’m offended by ‘greasy wops’ because half of my handle is Italian. (BTW, I am not of Italian origin, just that I lived there and feel like it is one of my homes, and I have a lot of ‘greasy wops’ as close friends).

I’m usually pretty consistent with my views.

so what if he did Desi? Its not like you have a particular identity you relate to right?

I often think that when slang racist terms are thrown into a conversation by someone you have justt met, they are a tentative attempt to see if you are on the same side of the ‘arguement’.

I have no idea if Paki is acceptable now, but I would not use it, in the same way I would not use Indian swear words here like “****F**k”. They jar, just like when paan is spat on ones feet.

Does location change the meaning of the word?
Is Mohammedan offensive? I always thought it rude to call a Muslim a Mohammedan here in the UK, but it was a common usage in Kashmir. When roaming around, a guide would often say the next village was very ‘Mohammedan’, meaning was not a ‘real’ Kashmiri village and had lost its original ethnicity, or if there was a porter trying to get your business, who was not a local, then they were called Mohammedans by the others. It was all said in jest and without any obvious malice as I never met a Kashmiri with any malice. This was pre the Kasmiri insurgency in the mid-80’s and it the area north and east of Srinagar. Each valley seemed to be a different tribe and ‘Mohammedans’ were always just over the hill, so to speak.

What do we do about historic writings?
Ala – I noticed you have the famous Rumi poem on your site. He uses the word ‘Gabr’. In his time was this an offensive term, as it is now? The poems sentiments are laudable and I personnally would not censor his work, but other past poets/authors are perhaps not so great and get their words censored to suit modern sensabilities. Is this correct?

“Brit” – I would never have used this word growing up, but now its not – there are even Brit Awards now.

When in Nigeria it was a suprise to be called an ‘onyocha’ by the kids in the street. My “Fair and Lovely” must have been working or more probably just my straight hair. More hilarity broke out when I shouted back ‘onyochi’ to them. They appreciated my very poor attempt at Ibo. Whiteman – Blackman.

How times change and words change, but it all needs a sense of proportion and a sense of humour and each situation should be judged seperately. Was malice intended or did one just ‘mis-speak’, so to speak.

There are of course far more important things – like should ‘reverse’ batting be allowed. The colonialist MCC allowed the South African born KP to cheat and are setting the rules of cricket! Where is Rohin to comment when these important things happen!! There are things that transcend race.

justforfun

“As far as I’m aware, only misogynistic, homophobic gangsta rappers use it on themselves.”

This isn’t true, there are rappers who are ‘reclaiming’ the word and making it ‘positive’. And furthermore, ‘nigga’ is used very, very ubiquitously in the US amongst African Americans. There are some African Americans who reject the ‘positive’ usage of ‘nigga’, but those are far and few.

“If ‘paki’ really is as bad as the N word, I’ll never say it again.”

That’s really strange criteria you have…so, it’s perfectly acceptable to say ‘honkie’ because its not as bad as ‘nigger’? I’d still think that it is not acceptable to denigrate people…

So what I am saying is that even if some circles feel that it’s ok to use a derogatory word either in the past or present, I’m not ok with it. So I’m curious as to why one would 1) seek validation from others to see if you can use a word that has been demeaning in its usage and 2) what is the purpose of saying those words in the first place, if they can be potentially offensive. My two paisa, anyway.

That’s nor strictly true as many rappers have their own internal ways of validating language – an reclaimig it for positive use, though, I, like you and Desi, wouldn’t use the N word simply because of its history . I don’t feel we are at a level playing field yet to take language and turn it around in this way.

Hm.

Oh.No.He.Didn’t.

“I would never have used it as shorthand for Pakistani had I not been assured that my Pakistani friends didn’t mind. We still use it in informal settings as a shortened version of Pakistani.”

You feel comfortable using the word “Paki”, even if your friends are ok with it? Personally, I’ve never said the word ‘niggah’ to my African American friends, even if I’m friends with them and they wouldn’t get insulted. To be honest, I steer clear of using names that have been historically used as insults, even if people are ok with it.

“Rescue Me, sensitivity.”

If it still works it is the funniest 5 minutes of TV ever made and covers the points made in the article very well.

All very well to reflect on names..

but ‘greasy wops’, ‘dutch courage’ and ‘Paki’ and Nigger’ are worlds apart. Some have more power to insult – for historical reasons.

Sadly it’s not so rare, depends on the circles, sure in polite society one would hope it’s not common, but walk down a high street in inner London or go into Woolworths and bump into a white customer, usually 15 and it’s not that rare for them to turn around in irritation and say ‘ watch your face , you Paki’. In everyday banal encounters at the post office, the dole office and the bus stop where publc resources/goods have to be shared, racism and Paki calling is still going on. After 9/11 Paki is indiscriminately used to slur Muslims because ‘they’ see the two as the same – hence branding people from the Middle East with the same – or indeed, anyone non-white and not Afro-caribbean.

I am always prepared to be called a Paki when i head off into the Isle of Dogs to use the Greenwich Tunnel – though name calling varies depending on whether i wear salwar kameez or jeans.

Rightly criticised is putting it mildly, no? I think in publically funded work place, it would be grounds for bringing a grievance! If anyone called me a greasy wop I would be mildly annoyed, if anyone called me a Paki or a Nigger esp if they were white i would be …

about the term ‘Paki’, happily heard less and less.

It’s still very much in use although not always by white people about every Asian they come across…