Race riots down under – who’s the victim?


by Al-Hack
14th December, 2005 at 10:03 am    

You knew it was going to happen right? Sunny goes on holiday – race riots break out. But the race riots that began in Cronulla Beach, and are spreading elsewhere, have evoked a not-so-surprising reaction from the blogosphere which goes something like: “Well sure the violence is despicable but do you know these Arabs have apparently been harassing Australian women for ages and go around in gangs – they sort of deserve it.”

You know how some people say that the London bombings cannot be justified by the war in Iraq? Funny that the same are trying to make excuses for Sydney’s new ugly face. Welcome to the new (white) victim mentality on race.

Background first. Splat Guy says things went down a bit like this:

* Last weekend some people, probably Lebanese Muslims, bashed a bunch of lifeguards at Cronulla Beach, including knocking one unconscious. They also harassed girls and women on the beach.

* Residents, pissed off by the violence, got angry at the lack of police attendance and presence.

* The anger morphed into a rage that the beach was being “invaded” by people from the western suburbs (i.e., a euphemism for Lebanese Muslims).

* Some people started texting to incite others to “defend the beach” from thugs.

* Today they did that by forming a violent, rowdy mob.

Gangs of Lebanese men have since been retaliating with violence. Idiots.

Maybe there are gangs of Arab men. There are gangs of different races and groups in almost every city in the world.

Maybe some Arab men abused white women for wearing bikinis. Or it could be an urban myth cooked up in the wake of what happened (remember the 14 yr old girl raped by 21 Asian men in B’ham?). But let’s assume there are abusive pervs on the beach. Which country doesn’t have them? Blame the police for not keeping order.

But no, instead bloggers are too busy polishing their victim mentality by making excuses for these sad excuses for humanity. If white supremacist groups can step in and exploit the situation for their own purposes, you get the idea on which way the wind was blowing.

The subtext isn’t the Lebanese, it is how Australia has become so racist.

This is the country where thinly-veiled racism against outside immigrants has been on the election agenda consistently. For a country built on immigration and still endless free space, the spectre of “outsiders” destroying the Australian way of life, or spreading terrorism has been constant.

And now John Howard is surprised that his own citizens have been expressing racism? As they say down under – pull the other one matey. The chickens have come home to roost.


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  2. Indigo Jo Blogs

    Amir Butler on Sydney riots

    Br Amir Butler has provided his own account of the recent riots in Sydney. To my knowledge, this is the first Muslim blog account of the incidents (surprisingly, Irfan Yusuf doesn’t seem to have posted one; no doubt he will…




  1. MD — on 14th December, 2005 at 10:23 am  

    Uh, I went to that link and the blogger didn’t seem like he was condoning any of the actions, but maybe you didn’t mean your post to read that way? Am I just misuderstanding what you’ve written?

    Anyway, if I reject the ‘root caus’e explanation for 7/7 than I should here too, right? Well, yes, absolutely right and correct. No excuses for what happened, please.

    *Explanations and excuses are too different things. I don’t mind if people try and explain what happened and in that explanation you have to bring up the long standing tensions that were going on around that beach. Locals say (and I have no idea of the validity of these claims) that people on that beach are being harrassed and the police do nothing about it. But that doesn’t mean you excuse thuggish, racist mobs. Harrassment doesn’t excuse vigilantism. Even if some in that crowd thought they were ‘defending’ the beach from rival gangs or thuggish behavior or whatever, it doesn’t mean you chase after a young girl and rip her head scarf off. It is possible to have a protest without beating the crap out of anyone who looks remotely brown.

    I’m surprised the police didn’t do a better job of riot control because apparently that there was going to be a ‘showdown’ was known about for some time. If there were long standing tensions that were simmering (and note, I am not making an excuse for any racist mobs or violence, let me say it again for people who are slow: I am not making an excuse) then why allow alcohol to be served? Why not police more aggressively? It’s the job of the police to keep order, regardless of the particular situation.

    **One of the things I dislike most about the immigration argument in most countries is that genuine concerns about immigration are often conflated with racist concerns about immigration. It is possible to have legitimate concerns and not be a racist. Again, for those who are slow, I am not condoning anything. Those thugs should be locked up, and locked up good. You don’t go around beating people up whenever you feel like it.

  2. Tally — on 14th December, 2005 at 10:48 am  

    There has been many attacks by these Muslims over many years. We know they are muslims because they invoke their muslim credentials when they’re kicking some body half to death on a train. They think nothing of calling an eight year old girl a slut.There is racism in Australia, but it is a significant minority of young muslim males that are the racists. The assault on the young life savers was an assault on Australian culture and the easy going fair go life style Australians are willing to share with any one.

  3. Soultrain — on 14th December, 2005 at 10:48 am  

    Yeah I’ve been following this over the past few days. It goes to show how easy people “want” to feel they are being oppressed or victimised; when they’ve never experienced real oppression in the first place. Such gangs as we have seen in the news, in fair numbers who were literally beating up people with their bare hands. How does an attack on two lifeguard surfers by a gang of Lebanese, mean that they represent the entire Lebanese community, and hence there appears to be open warfare and vigilante violence against anyone of Lebanese appearance – despite the common sense fact that vast majority of the Lebanese are not muggers. Now we have the context of gangs of Lebanese youths retaliating, which only fuels the fire.

    Is it right to label a whole country as racist though, as a pretext to these riots? Its very convenient to do that just because their country has had a very inflexible policy on immigration and a negative attitude to asylum seekers. Which you do see in other countries, but I agree its very hardline in Australia. The point I’m trying to make is that with the Bali bombings which killed several Australians, these factors are just as important in fuelling a climate where White Australians are suspicious of their Muslim ethnic minorities – which was sparked off by the lifeguard attacks. Its no excuse, but just a thought that its not simply hardline immigration policies that add to these underlying racism which boiled over.

  4. Siddharth — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:06 am  

    Good post AlHack.
    It goes something like this: When “black” French people riot, the problem is laid on the doorstep of poor education and the ‘isolationist cultural values of immigrant communities’. When “white” Australians riot, the fault lies with Multiculturalism and the isolationist values of [Christian/Musim] Arab immigrants.

    Everyone’s a loser baby.

  5. Jezza — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:16 am  

    White Australians are ALL immigrants. when one of the protester shouted ” what our fathers fought for”, he’s talking about the suffocation of the indigeneous population, and the successive suppression that enabled them to control a nation. A country built on racist principles such as the policy of white immigration only up until 1970, will always be racist. Oh. . Gold Diggers -they’re still digging.

  6. Tally — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:19 am  

    I did say ‘but it is a significant minority of young muslim males that are the racists’.
    no one is tarring them all with the same brush.

  7. TottenhamLad — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:19 am  

    And live from a blog in Sydney we have:

    http://romeomikes.blogspot.com/2005/12/last-night.html

  8. TottenhamLad — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:23 am  

    And brave Australians saving police from muslim/brown rioters:

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17550094-2,00.html


    “They were outnumbered and from what I understand, it was the ‘Bra Boys who saved the police from attack,” he said.

    “Although I am not a fan of the ‘Bra Boys, I think their protection of the police was praiseworthy in this incident.”

  9. Siddharth — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:31 am  

    Yes, the [Race formerly known as White] rioters who clubbed together in their thousands to beat teenagers up with beer bottles were very very brave.

  10. TottenhamLad — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:33 am  

    Wow Gary Young in the Guardian thinks riots are cool, hip, and groovy!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1641907,00.html

  11. Siddharth — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:44 am  

    Wow TottenhamLad of the BNP thinks Race riots are cool, hip, and groovy!

  12. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 12:14 pm  

    Look these neo nazi tossers need their heads kicking in.

    Also these lebanese criminals that have been intimidating and or attacking the locals needs to learn to respect the culture that they reside in.

    Now who’s going to accuse me of white victim mentality? Come one then! You slags! (i’m being ironic there)

    Racism is repulsive. So is self-loathing

  13. Col. Mustafa — on 14th December, 2005 at 1:38 pm  

    The minority riots for freedom and the to stop these wretched cars from destroying any more human life.

    These cars abuse us, and make us spend money on them.
    It states in the quran that all vehicles shall be destroyed.
    The car has surpassed the mode of transport time, it now feeds off us.
    We have no need for your type, as you are the devils creation.
    Burn and destroy all cars, anyone that stops you, destroy them too for they know no better.

  14. Aussie/English/White beachgoing slut — on 14th December, 2005 at 1:39 pm  

    This post helps to convince me that it is safer to live in Australia where white men fight back than to live in England where misogynist, racist and homophobic attacks on whites by Asians go unavenged. To think, I used to read the Guardian, vote Labour, and think that multiculturism was a bright and shining dream! The attacks on women at the beach are no urban myth. If you Asians are so disgusted by the behaviour of “Aussie sluts” then why don’t you spend more time in the mosque and less at the beach? You will NOT be allowed to intimidate us. Yes, you can squeal at my racism, but I am just as depressed as you are at the failure of multiculturism. I only feel safe amongst my people, you clearly prefer your own people to us white scum too.

  15. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 1:54 pm  

    “Maybe there are gangs of Arab men. …Maybe some Arab men abused white women for wearing bikinis. Or it could be an urban myth cooked up in the wake of what happened ”

    There’s no ‘ maybe’ about this, Al hack. Lebanese muslim (not christian) gangs exist and are a menace to many sydneysiders, white and non-white. Harassment of women takes place on the beaches, malls and other public places. The altercation with the lifeguards the previous weekend was a real one. They are out of control bullies, criminals and need to feel the full weight of the law crunching down on them.

    What is shocking is that community policing seems to have been really lax in Australia and allowed such a situation to build. Police reluctance to deal with such gangs (armed often) has a lot to answer for.

    That said, what happened in Cronulla on sunday and the bogosphere/radio talkback revealed racism is COMPLETELY inexcusable.

  16. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:00 pm  

    One person was stabbed in this whole charade – a white person – by someone of lebanese violent criminal.

    So with all due respect Col Mustafa, the lebanese gangs weren’t just destroying cars. They have been numerous reports of guns and knives – it appeares – so far – all on the ‘lebanese side’. But really, don’t give a hoot about who’s the worst or who’s more of a victim.

    The real problem is here that by not taking either side seriously, you play into the hands of exteremists.

    I couldnt give a fuck if people aren’t interested in both sides. It’s patently obvious there’s a problem on both sides. Neo-nazis on one, and disrepectful criminal gangs on the other (who are hiding behind the cultural differences mask).

  17. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:03 pm  

    Aussie/English/White beachgoing slut – Jonz ,is that you?

    “where white men fight back” LoL. As if! Running en masse after completely easy (and innocent targets) like teenage girls trying to tear off their head gear is fighting back?

    I think that there is much merit in the idea that both groups of morons should be given a place to slug it out and kill each other off. I would pay money to watch something like this – which will at the least, clean up the genepool.

  18. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:04 pm  

    Wow I agree with Mirax.

    Racism is inexcusable, and at the same time so is the lax community policing that have allowed it to get this far.

  19. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:05 pm  

    Aussie/English/White beachgoing slut – Jonz ,is that you?

    No it isn’t.

  20. Col. Mustafa — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:12 pm  

    Yeh but that was becuase they were trying to protect the cars; would be the response you got from me if the post was actually a serious one.

    But yeh as always both sides have thier faults and blah blah, blah blah.

    Maybe the lebanese youth have just replaced the lebanese christians with Aussies instead.
    They clearly weren’t done with the war, and still seem to want ot fight for something. Probably is cars.
    I dunno, maybe muslims just aren’t compatible.
    Yeh sure the ones that try and make an effort are, but the majority have no desire to fit in.
    They would rather it was all islamic, so then they could fight each other under the different divisions in islam.

  21. Aussie/English/White beachgoing slut — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:24 pm  

    No, it is’t JOnz, it is exactly what it says on the label. Funny how you are upset about a girl having her headscarf allegedly pulled but are not upset about the white woman who was punched into unconsciousness, the Thai woman also attacked, and the “Aussie slut” who had shots fired into her car, a hand stuck up her skirt, and was threatened with rape for the crime of being an “Aussie slut”. You complain about the cowardice of white men, but say nothing of your own kind, who attack white/Thai women mob-handed because they are an easier target than the men. Yes I am unfair and biased towards my own kind, just as you are. I am depressed, fearful, very very angry and full of hate. I am not proud of myself but I refuse to be ashamed either. You have bullied us long enough. I have had white guilt smashed down my throat for decades in the UK, and one time I swallowed it with shame and humility. Then a white friend was murdered by Asians in the UK, another friend was attacked by blacks, then I was assaulted as well. I started to question my assumption that whites were always at fault. I thought that leaving the UK would bring peace but everywhere there is multiculturism there is violence and hate, and not just by us whiteys.

  22. El Cid — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:30 pm  

    You’re emotional Aussie/English/White beachgoing slut and have clearly had some bad experiences. But I’ve grown up in the most multicultural city in the world and I can tell you that it has been an enriching experience.
    Don’t assume people on this site are all Asian btw.

  23. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:33 pm  

    C’mon, Col! This is a (male)minority of the lebanese muslim community that is causing the trouble and other muslim groups in Australia, are not in the same category. It is not a simple ‘lebanese’ or ‘muslim’ problem but specific one of some out of control male lebanese muslim(they may not even be observant muslims!) youth.

  24. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:36 pm  

    beachgoing slut,
    I really feel for you. What a tragedy that apartheid south africa no longer exists to offer refuge for delicate flowers of white womenhood like you.

  25. TottenhamLad — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:43 pm  

    Mirax:

    I think that there is much merit in the idea that both groups of morons should be given a place to slug it out and kill each other off. I would pay money to watch something like this – which will at the least, clean up the genepool.

    Seems you missed Birmingham around about Sunday 24th October of this year…

  26. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:51 pm  

    Sorry Mustafa. I know you weren’t being serious. It’s just a tried to make a bit of a joke about it before and Mirax launched a tirade on me! I wish Mirax would grow up.

  27. Col. Mustafa — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:53 pm  

    “It is not a simple ‘lebanese’ or ‘muslim’ problem but specific one of some out of control male lebanese muslim(they may not even be observant muslims!) youth.”

    There definitely not observant muslims which is why they are rioting.
    If they were then they wouldn’t be attacking innocent women or men.
    I know theres probably loads of muslims living in Aussieland that have no probs whatsoever, which is why they are the ones that bothered to fit in.

    But the majority of muslims especially if there living together do not want to fit in.
    Now thats not too much of a problem as you’ll see that with most immigrants regardless of colour or where there from.
    But these youths are going around saying that theres something wrong with the way you people(Australians) are living your lives.
    Why???
    Its got nothing to do with them.
    Is it just anger becuase of maybe a few racist incidents that happened to a few lebanese people, or is it the rise of disillusioned muslim youth that think things should change due to thier religion, fueled by most probably unemployment, crap jobs a desire to feel wanted and part of a group, hence backward fundy islamic rhetoric which flows all over the world these days.

    Islam does play a part in all this, its just that people choose to ignore it.

  28. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:54 pm  

    I agree with El Cid aswell in as much as I have chosen to live in London, and have had a fortunately enriching experience this multi-cultural city. ‘Aussie slut’ you seem to have had a rather unfortunate time of it.

    Mirax you will win no awards for compassion.

  29. TottenhamLad — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:58 pm  

    Mirax:

    What a tragedy that apartheid south africa no longer exists to offer refuge for delicate flowers of white womenhood like you

    It is indeed, might have saved these 22,486 South African children (just one years worth) from their fate in the ‘New South Africa’

    http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=11108,1,22

  30. Aussie/English/White beachgoing slut — on 14th December, 2005 at 2:59 pm  

    El Cid, Australia is a refuge in itself, its full of angry violent white folks who outnumber the Leb bullyboys about 150000 to one. Nothing delicate about white women either, if they were you wouldn’t need to form such a big gang of blokes to tackle them would you?

  31. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 3:09 pm  

    TottenhamLad, you are saying that South Africa would be better off with apartheid? So you are BNP then…

  32. Jai Singh — on 14th December, 2005 at 3:10 pm  

    Aussie/White/Beachgoing person,

    =>”If you Asians are so disgusted by the behaviour of “Aussie sluts” then why don’t you spend more time in the mosque and less at the beach?”

    Here’s some ‘breaking news’ for you:

    1. Not all Asians are Muslim. (Numerically, a greater percentage are not). So the “mosque” connection is irrelevant to the rest of us. Also, not all Muslims are Asian.

    2. Lebanese people, such as those allegedly harassing Australians, are not Asian. They’re Arabs from the Middle East. There is a geographical gap of several thousand miles between the two regions. Pointing the finger at Asians in this matter is like blaming people from the Ukraine for something Portugese people do.

  33. Aussie/English/White beachgoing slut — on 14th December, 2005 at 3:30 pm  

    Jai, the bloke who wrote this post is Asian is he not? He came out on the side of his Muslim “brother” against the whites. So if he can conflate Muslim asians and Muslim arabs then so can I. There is nothing “alleged” about their harrassment either, try reading some Australian blogs, not just the Guardian and the BBC. I apologise for appearing to target non-Muslim Asians, which was not my intention. I don’t actually blame most Muslims either, I just get mad at their smug self-righteous attitude that whites are always to blame while they themselves are always victims of white racism.

  34. TottenhamLad — on 14th December, 2005 at 3:35 pm  

    jOnz:

    The only political party I was ever a member of was the SWP, many moons ago…

  35. Jai Singh — on 14th December, 2005 at 3:38 pm  

    Aussie/English/White Beachcombing person,

    You’ve answered your own question. This is a Muslim issue, not an Asian one (and if you combine the global population of everyone either currently residing in or originating from the Indian subcontinent — India and the immediately surrounding countries — the vast majority are actually not Muslim, as I mentioned earlier). So Al-Hack is speaking as a Muslim, not an Asian.

    I acknowledge your apology; my point is that the term “Asian” should not be dragged into this matter at all, regardless of Al-Hack’s ethnic background.

  36. pregethwr — on 14th December, 2005 at 3:57 pm  

    Putting aside the Guardianista view this does seem to bear a horrible similarity to the riots in Birmingham, communities living side by side, generally poor, generally poor educational achievement – and not mixing and ending up hating each other.

  37. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 4:20 pm  

    It is praiseworthy that some of the young people at Cronulla have stepped back and apologised for what went wrong on Sunday.

    Surfers say sorry, condemn violence

    December 15, 2005

    CRONULLA surfers have apologised for their role in Sunday’s race riots, saying they were ashamed by the violence and vowed not to allow a repeat.

    Shire surfer Brad Whittaker released the written apology last night after two days of talks between senior members of the beach’s surfing community and representatives of Sydney’s Lebanese community.

    The statement said the surfers unequivocally rejected any form of racism and was accompanied by apologies written by younger surfers who took part in the riots.

    “The day began as a show of solidarity against the behaviour of ethnic gangs who have been harassing the public on our beaches over a period of several years,” the statement said.

    “It escalated out of control under the influence of right wing racists, from outside this community, and alcohol.

    “As senior members of Cronulla’s surfing community, we will be doing everything within our power to ensure there is no repeat of Sunday’s violence and we would expect those of influence in the wider community, including the Islamic community, to do the same.

    “The beach is for all to use and enjoy, with everyone showing respect and consideration for each other. Our sincere hope is that some good can come out of this unfortunate episode, with all groups within our society displaying more tolerance and greater willingness to engage each other as Australians.”

    NRL players Hazem El Masri and Jason Stevens yesterday joined forces to condemn last weekend’s violence.

    El Masri, the Bulldogs’ goal-kicking superstar with a Lebanese background, has been coming to Cronulla with his family for 20 years.

    “Both ends are in the wrong,” he told the Ten network yesterday.

    “It’s a public beach, it’s open for everybody, but by the same token you’ve got to respect others and respect yourself and that’s the best way to go about it.”

  38. Paul Brown — on 14th December, 2005 at 4:21 pm  

    Aussie beachgoing slut should not be sympathised with simply because of irrelevant personal experiences. It is hardly a scientific way of looking at race relations to go on anecdotal stories about what has happened to you and people you know personally. If I were mugged a by an Australian I wouldn’t spend the rest of my life believing that all australians are evil.

    The morons that have been attacking Lebanese people on the streets are ignorant thugs – they are the very type of people that would harass and assault women, so don’t try to defend their actions on the basis that Lebanese men have harassed women. I suppose beachgoing slut imagines that the white Australians running riot are ardent feminists?!

    There are obviously serious faults on both sides. the Lebanese gangs have behaved like idiots, but the white mobs of useless thugs running rampage are looking for any excuse to be violent. No intelligent person would ever behave in this way. And you have set up a false dichotomy – the choice isn’t separatism or multiculturalism – both are equally reactionary.

  39. peter — on 14th December, 2005 at 4:34 pm  

    Al-hack – that post was truly a piece of low-flying hack work with your weasel ‘Maybe there are gangs of arab men…” and your ‘urban myth’ conceit, when any proper writer would actually research their story, find that those things are true and documented, and judge their response instead of a frankly feeble, dashed-off attempt to write it up as a new white victimhood…

    Make it worth people visiting your site, or stick to wanking, boss…

  40. Col. Mustafa — on 14th December, 2005 at 4:37 pm  

    The condemnation letter is a very good sign and shows that maturer members of that society, from both ends don’t wish to entertain the violence.
    It depends on the actual people lebanese or autralian that were involved in the riots now to understand this.

  41. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 4:42 pm  

    M Shaka Zulu, resident PP troll, wrote this on the christmas thread and I take the liberty of reposting it on this because I think it hilarious(yeah I know, my sense of humour is juvenile)

  42. Col. Mustafa — on 14th December, 2005 at 4:43 pm  

    “Make it worth people visiting your site, or stick to wanking, boss…”

    So theres no point wanking if people like what he wrote.
    Surely wanking has nothing to do with what he wrote.
    Most men wank regardless of what they wrote, ate or killed.
    I mean, im wanking write now; while reading might i add.

  43. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 4:45 pm  

    oops here it is:

    Just recieved an email from a Muslim brother from down under. He recounted a story (he heard) what happened to a Muslim sister. You will never hear storyes like this in the Jewish controled media.

    ASTAFULLAH

    Whew! Infidels! Has Aisha been busy last night!
    Aisha gets back from the Masjid, and decides to go for a swim. Of course, Aisha is pious, so she only swims in a full burkha. Heading down to the beach, she sees a gang of kafir dressed up in flags and drinking haraam beer. Oh Allah! Thus the wisdom of the laws of hijab and staying indoors!
    So there is Aisha running along the beach with her burkha trailing behind her, while a gang of drunken chav yobs, carrying cricket bats and broken beer bottles are running (or should that be staggering) after her! Oh Allah, protect Aisha from the shaitaan! Aisha decides to confuse them, so she ducks behind an umbrella and sheds her burkha, and continues running dressed only in some lacy black lingerie that she bought for showing self to husband to get husband to “rise for salat”, if you know what Aisha means!
    Anyway, Aisha is running almost nekked down the beach, and what do you know, there is a gang of Muslim brothers! They start screaming that Aisha is an Aussie sharmuta and a whore and saying that they want to rape her! And Aisha screams that she is a pious Muslimah being chased by the kafir, but they do not listen. So Aisha runs onto the street and seeks refuge in a big building that thinks is a church.
    Well, she looks around and there are people in friggin’ yarmulkes and zionistish writing all over the joint! Aisha is in a Jew-Masjid! Oh Allah! Aisha feels so dirty! Nearly nekked and surrounded by lecherous old Jews. So she puts on one of those shawl things and runs home dressed as a Jew man! Allah! She will have to make sincere tawbeh for all of this!
    Aisha feels like a drink now, but that would be haraam. She is just going to have a lie down and some quiet time with the Noble Quaran.

  44. Rohin — on 14th December, 2005 at 5:52 pm  

    There have been a lot of good points made on here.

    Several people have harked back to Paris and Brum riots and others have mentioned the involvement of Muslims. Now, it is striking that all three examples involve Muslims. Those who see things that aren’t there will take that as me insulting Muslims – I’m you know I’m not – but as per Jai’s exchange with the beachgoing-slut (nice name!) the differentiation between Asian and Muslim is important. Poor Jai, he seems to have a one-man mission to point out to PP’s visitors that not all Asians are Muslim and not all Muslims are Asian!

    However to illustrate the Muslim connection doesn’t mean that the motives to these three episodes is the same. In this case I can’t align my opinions too closely with those of Al-Hack I’m afraid mate, because I don’t think it’s simply a problem of a few pervy gangs. Trying to be as objective as possible and having sifted through plenty of reports, the behaviour of some Lebanese men has been very inflammatory.

    I will, however, strongly agree than Australia has become (remained) a deeply racist country. Perhaps this is Oz’s Katrina…bringing some unpleasant truths to light. But then again, did Katrina change anything? Will this? Doubt it.

  45. El Cid — on 14th December, 2005 at 5:55 pm  

    El Cid, Australia is a refuge in itself, its full of angry violent white folks who outnumber the Leb bullyboys about 150000 to one.

    What’s ur point? Ur missing blighty aren’t u, I can tell.

  46. Vikrant — on 14th December, 2005 at 6:00 pm  

    So Mustafa still moving to Aussieland after all this??

    @Aussie/English slut:

    Quotes: Jai, the bloke who wrote this post is Asian is he not?

    omg… civity aside, if you look around bitch THIS BLOG IS AN ASIAN BLOG. perhaps you were looking for http://www.stormfront.org.

    You have bullied us long enough. Haha… bullied in what sense?

    I swallowed it with shame and humility Still laughing

    Then a white friend was murdered by Asians in the UK, another friend was attacked by blacks, then I was assaulted as well.

    heard it loads of times. Nice try but I see thru this one… No one but me makes up stories here.

    You will NOT be allowed to intimidate us. Yes, you can squeal at my racism, but I am just as depressed as you are at the failure of multiculturism. I only feel safe amongst my people, you clearly prefer your own people to us white scum too.

    On the floor.

    So 100000 darkies are good enough to die for King George in the trenches of North Africa but not good enough to live in good ole West isnt it?

    Your ignorance astounds me. Whats your education btw…. pathetic public school dropout no doubt.

  47. Don — on 14th December, 2005 at 6:16 pm  

    Vikrant,

    ‘omg… civility aside, if you look around bitch THIS BLOG IS AN ASIAN BLOG.’

    Out of order, mate.

  48. Bikhair — on 14th December, 2005 at 6:23 pm  

    Pickled Pansies no match for drunken Australians,

    The Wahhabi is speaking everyone listen!

    I know whose fault it is, its the Muslims fault for leaving thier Muslim country and deciding to live in Darul Kufr in the first place. Yes, it is there fault. It is there fault because thier religious and cultural values are incompatible with those of a Western liberal soceity. Likewise the religious and cultural values of the Iraqi Muslims are incompatible with those of a democracy. So all those apart of the coalition please leave Iraq now. The same reasons that Muslims are unable to assimilate into Western Euopean socieities are the very same reasons democracy will not work in Iraq.

    Some advice for the Austrailians: Enact Jim Crow laws in Australia because its obvious that the sexually insatiable olived skin beast cant keep thier humus covered hands off those lovely white angels.

    Better yet, remind them of thier religion. No alcohol, no fornication, really shouldnt be at a beach with half naked people anyway, and the lowering of thier gaze. In the event that they should take a peek at one of your white angels remind them that the first look is from Allah (azawajal) and the second is from shaytan. If that doesnt quell thier passion, they should be further reminded of the hadith of Prophet Muhammed (sallalahu alaihi wa salam) that advised the men that if a women should inspire passion in them that they should go home and go into thier wives. If they arent married they should be and if they cant marry they should fast.

    Islam has answers for everything.

    Go home Lebbos Go home!

  49. raz — on 14th December, 2005 at 6:25 pm  

    Great post Vikrant :)

  50. Vikrant — on 14th December, 2005 at 6:25 pm  

    So Bikhair by same logic shouldnt Americans be shouting at you: “Go home you Saudi “

  51. Vikrant — on 14th December, 2005 at 6:27 pm  

    err it should read: “Go home you Saudi (edited) “

  52. Rohin — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:09 pm  

    “So Bikhair by same logic shouldnt Americans be shouting at you: “Go home you Saudi ““

    Well said Vikrant. But why do you think she went to public school?

    I try my best to ignore Bikhair’s Bullshit (we can alliterate too Brainless Bikhair), but this is a corker:

    “advised the men that if a women should inspire passion in them that they should go home and go into thier wives. If they arent married they should be and if they cant marry they should fast.

    Islam has answers for everything. ”

    Those answers suck! Let me translate:

    If you see a filthy pussy that arouseth you, go home to your wife and pork her whilst thinking of this filthy pussy. If you haveth no wife, then marry. If you can’t, then stop eating.

    Surely masturbation is a better option?

  53. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:21 pm  

    what’s with the repeated use of the word ‘filthy’ above, Rohin?

  54. Col. Mustafa — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:25 pm  

    Why else can we masturbate for?
    So in times of need we don’t have to bother anyone.

    Do you know what its like not to jerk off every now and again?
    Its hell, everything becomes sex.
    Anything and i mean anything turns you on.
    Its bad for concentration, you start having mood swings, you think of nothing else apart from sex.
    Obviously religion says bad, dont do it as they are evil thoughts and you shouldn’t be thinking them.
    But i cant help it, the more i try not to think about it, the more i do.

    I remember this Seinfeld episode where Jerry and crew made a bet to see who could last the longest without any masturbating or sexual activity.
    hehehehehehe, too funny.

    “So Mustafa still moving to Aussieland after all this??”

    hehe, most people i know seem to moving to Aussieland.
    All for the same reasons.
    They just dont like it here anymore, they all seem to be white only a few asians want to do the same.
    I just thought i’d say the same when where i really wanna move is into a ranch in the middle of Epping forest, where all i have to do is scare silly teenagers and 20 somethings when they come around stoned and drunk off thier face thinking that its some mystical place.

    Obviously my family might have some trouble with it, but hopefully they should understand that this my dream that has finally come true since i was a toddler.

  55. Rohin — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:31 pm  

    Mirax, it’s a quote from Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle. Kumar refers to some horny English girls as ‘filthy pussies’. I can’t seem to get the phrase out of my head. It sounds great, rolls off the tongue. Gets you slapped.

    Col, you wanted to scare teenagers since you were a toddler? Wow, precocious.

  56. Al-Hack — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:32 pm  

    Mirax – My ironic radar indicates that Shaka Zulu is taking the piss, not a troll.

    I am SO GLAD that this beachgirl has come over from Aussieland to post here because she typifies exactly what I mentioned above.

    Australia is the land where they lock up asylum seekers in off-shore secluded prisons with no human rights and no media contact or lawyers, and most of the country does not give a shit.

    It is the country where the native Aboriginies still get treated like shit and until recently had the policy of forcibly putting Aboriginal orphans with white parents so their blood would be mixed (Newsweeks article me thinks?).

    How does it not surprise me then small gang violence is made into a racial war and a issue of “multi-culturalism”. Girl! You are the immigrants who were forced upon the natives. A mongrel race is now talking about protecting its racial purity? Even the KKK wouldn’t take you. Please don’t give me that victim card. Complain to the police for not dealing with the gangs if you have to. I ain’t got nothing against going to the beach except there ain’t one near me. This has nothing to do religion, but once again, our usual suspects have made it into on.

    Cue Melanie Phillips ranting about the dangers of immigration down under.

    “Austr-abia” – There! I’ve coined it before the Spectator or MP could. I got that shit patented now suckers.

  57. Al-Hack — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:37 pm  

    Am I the only one to notice the irony when Bikhair the American Muslim says:I know whose fault it is, its the Muslims fault for leaving thier Muslim country and deciding to live in Darul Kufr in the first place.

    Maybe she’s developed a sense of humour?? *shock*

  58. Col. Mustafa — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:41 pm  

    She sounds like shaka zulu there.
    Shakas the man.

    No, i just dreamt about epping forest when i was a toddler.
    The hate for teenagers and 20 somethings came later on.
    hehehehehe.

  59. Don — on 14th December, 2005 at 7:58 pm  

    I’m afraid Bikhair, like her compatriots Robin Williams and Steve Martin, has stopped being funny.

    Shaka, on the other hand is a diamond.

    Al Hack,

    ‘A mongrel race’? What does that mean. As a comment it was as lazy, smug and sub-standard as your original post.

  60. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 8:42 pm  

    Al-Hack

    There will be problems with uncontrolled immigration in the West! Do you not see that?! It’s boils down to value systems… Liberal democracy doesn’t really hang well with imported strict religious values!

    Al-Hack do you live in London? Would you be OK with 10 million Wahabbi Saudis coming to live in the UK in the next 5 years? Just as an example, you must set limits somewhere, surely?

    *Disclaimer* All racism is repulsive

  61. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 8:43 pm  

    Al hack, you need to be calmer and research what is going on in australia helluva lot more than just run amok with the ‘aussies are racists’ line. It is too simplistic. as is the ‘all muslims are trouble makers’ meme.

    Phrases like ‘mongrel race’ are meaningless and highly offensive.

    Racist attitudes towards aborigines persist (to what extent is debatable, of course) and it is not wrong to note them but what is with the ‘recent’ forced placement of aboriginal orphans with white parents? Never heard of it , I am afraid.

    Yeah, I know shaka is a wind-up artist rather than a troll.

  62. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 8:47 pm  

    jonz remains a twat of course. Uncontrolled immigration=scary muslims. yeah.

  63. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 8:51 pm  

    lol I knew that would get your goat.. though I was hoping to get Al-Hacks goat mostly…

  64. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 8:57 pm  

    Anyway Muslims aren’t scary. Just because self-declared Muslims have commited 3715 terror attacks since 9/11? Nah. I just don’t some like ‘Islamic values’. I find some Islamic values abhorrent such as stoning to death for adultery. But that’s just me and my pathetic western sensibilties. But Muslims? Nah generally they’re same species as me, homo-sapien so they’re ok in my book. A lot of Muslims don’t even attend the Mosque on Fridays! Shock, horror! Some even converse with Kuffar!

  65. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 8:59 pm  

    Jonz, baby, I never lose my goat nor anything else to fuckwits who feel the need to put out ‘all racism is repulsive’ disclaimers to their own posts. cretin.

  66. Al-Hack — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:00 pm  

    I ain’t getting my knickers in a twist that easily. For a country built on immigration, I find it funny that they’re complaining about uncontrolled immigration.
    Lebanese in Australia are not only primarily Christian, they also number only around 160,000 – about .9% of the population. Hardly uncontrolled, however you define it.

    I aint’ got a problem with a “proper” debate on immigration, as our friend MD (who is desi) above says. But most debate on immigration isn’t proper or informed, its started by paranoid fantasists with a thin grasp of reality. A bit like yourself j0nz ;)

    A mongrel race isn’t an offensive term, it is the reality. The idea of Australian racial purity is a term full of oxymorons. I ain’t too good atr being PC. If the Lebanese have been harassing people at the beach, the police should lock them up, it’s as simple as that. If you’re being a racist hate-monger – lock em up.

    I find it funny the Aussies are talking about protecting their culture and race though. What a joke. Try telling that to the Aboriginies.

  67. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:01 pm  

    yeah, keep digging.

  68. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:09 pm  

    ‘the idea of australian racial purity’

    Ah! You may have misunderstood the “100% pure aussie” slogan carved out in the sand at Cronulla, Hack. I do not believe that it referred to race; more likely it was a reference to so-called aussie culture of ‘easy going fair go life style ‘ that poster no 2 mentions upthread.

  69. j0nz — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:10 pm  

    I’m glad you mention the Aborigines… Melanie Philips talks about the indigenous Aussies here

    http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/001520.html

    (Yes ok that was stolen from Benji @ HP… – and yes I’m being ironic)

  70. Mirax — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:13 pm  

    #68 is a reply to #65.

  71. Rohin — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:15 pm  

    I was just about to link to the article she links to here.

  72. Soniyeh — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:25 pm  

    I understand what beachgoing slut is talking about, but it isnt fair to tar all asians with the same brush.

  73. Don — on 14th December, 2005 at 9:57 pm  

    ‘A mongrel race isn’t an offensive term’

    Find one that is. Apply it to yourself.

  74. Al-Hack — on 14th December, 2005 at 10:28 pm  

    I love the way mad dog Phillips uses the term ‘indigenous’ when referring to white Australians. Maybe someone should tell the poor soul that the only people ‘indigenous’ to Australia are the Aboriginies.

    But such nuances might go over the heads of the poor old dear. Age and hatred takes a toll you know.

    Last year the most senior Asian policeman in the force, Tariq Ghaffur talked about the rise in Asian crime. So what does that mean? We are suddenly wrecking English society and causing problems for the ‘indegenous’ population? Well, I bet the mad dog thinks that anyway.

    The linked article in Quadrant magazine has such careful analysis as:
    MANY OF YOU would have heard of the horrific problems in France with the outbreak of unprecedented crimes amongst an estimated five million Muslim immigrants. Middle Eastern males now make up 45,000 of the 90,000 inmates in French prisons. There are no-go areas in Paris for police and citizens alike. The rule of law has broken down so badly that when police went to one of these areas recently to round up three Islamic terrorists, they went in armoured vehicles, with heavy weaponry and over 1000 armed officers, just to arrest a few suspects. Why did it need such numbers? Because the threat of terrorist reprisal was minimal compared to the anticipated revolt by thousands of Middle Eastern and North African residents who have no respect for the rule of law in France and consider intrusions by police and authority a declaration of war.

    Mirax – What easy going Aussie culture? That only applies to white Australians. For most non-whites in Australia, the country is far from easy going. And if they weren’t so obsessed with racial purity, then the far-right “comrades” wandering around would also have been beaten up… right?

    Reading MP’s diary column is parody itself. The same arguments about new immigrants destroying the fabric of society was used when the JEws came to this country. That woman is too stupid to understand how history repeats itself. Why are you people polluting my thread by linking to her?

  75. Bikhair — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:52 pm  

    Vikrant,

    “Go home you Saudi”

    I am not a Saudi and America is where I was born. Moving to a Muslim country will take sometime as has been the expirience of those who have actualy dont it.

    Rohin,

    Because you are a pig you might pork your wife but between a Muslim men and his women, they are fulfilling thier obligation to one another. I dont know where you get your attitudes about sex and female genitailia but it certianly wasnt from Islam.

    Now shut up child while we adults speak.

  76. Sajn — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:52 pm  

    “2. Lebanese people, such as those allegedly harassing Australians, are not Asian. They’re Arabs from the Middle East. There is a geographical gap of several thousand miles between the two regions. Pointing the finger at Asians in this matter is like blaming people from the Ukraine for something Portugese people do.”

    Actually Lebanon is in Asia therefore it is quite correct to call Lebanese people Asian.

  77. Rohin — on 14th December, 2005 at 11:59 pm  

    Following up that Quadrant piece – Manish points out it has been funded by the CIA. In general, it’s hard to know which publications to trust when reading the Aussie press.

    Linking to an article doesn’t necessarily mean an endorsement of the person wrote it.

  78. Sakshi — on 15th December, 2005 at 7:16 am  

    Dear Al-Halk,

    Maybe you are taking things a bit too personal here. I have lived in Sydney for about 8 years. I did my high school and Uni there. I use to work at Burger King in Lakemba…a muslim dominated subrub.

    I myself have wistnessed and heard about Lebanease youths, molesting and ill-tearting young WHITE girls. But never have I seen any sort of retaliation from the Australians society as a whole towards the Lebanease Muslim community. Whatever was done, was done in the court of law. On the contratry many times…there were sympathetic feelings towards these corrupt youths by the Australian media and the public.

    However what happened now, in no way can be justified. I have had many Lebanease Muslim friends…who believed in humanity the same way as you and I do. But because of few mis-guided individuals..the entire community is suffereing now. During my 8 years in Australia..never have I ever experienced any sort of racial discrimination and consider it one of the best countries to live in.

    This is a very sad and pain-streaking event and the last thing we need to do is point fingers at each other. Hopefully we would never have to witness such incidents every again.

  79. Bikhair — on 15th December, 2005 at 10:09 am  

    Sakshi,

    Are you serious? Do you know how often women are harrassed sexually by men or a group of men? Is it some how far more repulsive when the victim is a white woman or white women? Listen dear, the sooner you take them off thier pedestal you will realize that there isnt anything exceptional about it.

    Remember the 2000 Puerto Rican Day parade when dozens of women were harrassed by druken Puerto Rican men? You talk about your expiriences in Austrailia… I have seen women cursed at, fondled and have glass bottle thrown at them by men who had thier sexual advances rejected.

    Who will riot on behalf of all those Puerto Rican women? Unfortunately no one, since there are no Madonnas among them.

  80. El Cid — on 15th December, 2005 at 10:40 am  

    I think Puerto Rican women can handle themselves far better than a women who has decided she is not worthy of anything other than what her husband decides.
    Anda ya chingada!

  81. El Cid — on 15th December, 2005 at 10:45 am  

    Vikrant,
    If you don’t want non-Asians to take part just say the word. Then you can back to your bubble and I can go back to mine. But that’s not the London way, is it?
    Or maybe you’re from Burnley.
    Oh, I forgot, you’rer going to the US — they do segregation much better over there.

  82. j0nz — on 15th December, 2005 at 10:53 am  

    Sakshi

    Please, no asians living in Syndey are to comment, Al-Hack would like to make snap judgements from the outside, thankyou very much.

  83. Siddharth — on 15th December, 2005 at 11:44 am  

    Jonz: Were you inside when you posted your rather one-sided views, thankyou very much?

  84. Jai Singh — on 15th December, 2005 at 11:46 am  

    Sajn,

    =>”Actually Lebanon is in Asia therefore it is quite correct to call Lebanese people Asian.”

    Here in the UK, the term “Asian” is used to refer only to people whose ethnicity originates from the Indian subcontinent, ie. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal. It’s the British equivalent of the American term “South Asian”.

    The Australian commenter was aware of this fact, as indicated by her subsequent apology.

  85. Vikrant — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:09 pm  

    If you don’t want non-Asians to take part just say the word.

    I never said i wanted only Asians commenting here but what pisses me off are the blatant racist (& ignorant) comments of EAWS and you patronising her.

    Or maybe you’re from Burnley.

    Aldershot actually though we do have quite an active facist movement here .ive been “roughed up” by National Front guys once. Granted the fact that we all are racist to varying degrees but EAWS is definitely BNP stuff but. Theres only so much you can take. Shes definitely ignorant when she claims “Asians” are behind the riots. Lebs arent Asians they are Arabs. Majority of South Asians arent even Muslim. Infact for me to be called a Muslim would be an insult.

  86. Vikrant — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:13 pm  

    Jai Singh stop patronising the (edited).

    Just as Islamists divide the world between Kaffirs and Believers, Dar-ul-Harb and Dar-ul-Islam, Arabs between Arabs and Non-Arabs, she divides it between Whites and Wogs. Hindus … Muslims mean one and the same for her.

  87. Jai Singh — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:21 pm  

    Vikrant,

    I don’t patronise anyone.

    The woman concerned has obviously had some negative experiences as indicated by her somewhat emotionally-influenced comments, but she did subsequently make it clear that she did not mean to lump everyone together in one “brown” group. Giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming she was sincere in her apology, that should be the end of the matter. Bear in mind that she could have either made excuses or, worse, retaliated with verbal abuse. At least she had the decency to do neither, even if her original comment was highly offensive — which I immediately pointed out.

    Judging by her behaviour, I don’t think she’s the Caucasian equivalent of Bikhair.

  88. Siddharth — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:31 pm  

    In the absence of Sunny, this site is turning into a right little hornets nest of sectarian bollocks.

    In (87) Poster Vikrant compares the perceived racism of one Australian poster to PP to the entire Muslim world!

    Dude, if you don’t want to nannied and moderated, then moderate thyself.

  89. Gaz — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:32 pm  

    Anecdotaly it seems that immigrants from Muslim countries find it hard to integrate into western/christian societies and 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants seems to find it the hardest of all. It can’t just be down to racism, afterall immigrant 2nd and 3rd generation chinese people rarely have these integration problems. The debate on immigration needs to take into account the ability of immigrants to adapt to life in another country.

  90. El Cid — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:33 pm  

    it’s good to talk

  91. Gaz — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:35 pm  

    With all this talk of Australia being a ‘racist’ country, could someone please direct me to a country that isn’t racists as I would like to migrate there?

  92. El Cid — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:35 pm  

    In the absence of Sunny, this site is turning into a right little hornets nest of sectarian bollocks.

    I agree. Sad, but when the heat is on even progressive people seem to want to close ranks around their tribe. That’s a general observation and not aimed at anyone in particular.

  93. Siddharth — on 15th December, 2005 at 12:37 pm  

    yup.

  94. Sali — on 15th December, 2005 at 2:31 pm  

    ‘the easy going fair go life style Australians are willing to share with any one’.

    Willing to share with anyone ‘cept Aborigines, consigned to ‘communities’ and flute-playing in malls for cents, right?

  95. Bikhair — on 15th December, 2005 at 4:16 pm  

    Vikrant,

    “Infact for me to be called a Muslim would be an insult.”

    Ok how does penis worshipping, cow loving, fire breathing Hindu sound?

  96. Bikhair — on 15th December, 2005 at 4:27 pm  

    El Cid,

    “I think Puerto Rican women can handle themselves far better than a women who has decided she is not worthy of anything other than what her husband decides.”

    Al Ahzab 33:36
    It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in thier decision. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger he has indeed strayed in plain error.

  97. Bikhair — on 15th December, 2005 at 4:32 pm  

    Jai Singh,

    I completely sympathize with you. I would hate to have those Asian Muslims tarnish my model minority status.

  98. Vikrant — on 15th December, 2005 at 5:01 pm  

    In (87) Poster Vikrant compares the perceived racism of one Australian poster to PP to the entire Muslim world!

    Dude i’ve used the word “Islamists” which generally refers to fundy Moslems.

    Bikhair dare not to malign my culture. Though i’m not a practising Hindu.

    Penis worshipping is infact prevalent in much of Asia even Japan. As for firebreathing you’ve been seeing much of Simpsons lately it seems. And cows arent that imporatnt or central to Hindu beliefs.

    Arabs and their barbaric culture doesnt measure upto ours.

    Doesnt Mohammed tell in Hadiths that camel urine is the cure-for-all wonder?

    Shit the burqa has shourded your common sense maybe. But you being an Arab i dont expect much from you. Scientifically proved, brains no bigger than rats.

    Maybe its high time you giveup your absurd superiority complex and treat kaffirs as human beings.

    P.S I’ve had the misfortune of spending 2 of my pre-teen years in the ultimate Islamic utopia, KSA. Al-Jubail to be precise.

  99. Vikrant — on 15th December, 2005 at 5:04 pm  

    Al Ahzab 33:36
    It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in thier decision. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger he has indeed strayed in plain error.

    Quoting Quran! Shit…. why would anybody live his life according to a 7th century book that regulates my life to the last minute detail?

  100. Siddharth — on 15th December, 2005 at 5:19 pm  

    Bikhair (96): What a repulsive statement.

    “If you can’t play nice, don’t play at all.”

    Narrated by Ibn al-Mubarak in al-Zuhd (p. 42), Ibn Kathir (asmâ’ihim instead of sîmâhum) in his Tafsir (1:500), al-Qurtubi in al-Tadhkira

  101. sonia — on 15th December, 2005 at 5:28 pm  

    so bikhair – you’re not asian? Really which continent are you from then? Asia’s a big continent you know.

    anyway when silly things like this happen -it seems to be , everyone’s being a bit of a reactionary – so you’re back to the chicken and egg problem. Everyone who’s innocent and harmless and gets hurt by being in the wrong place at the wrong time is a victim obviously, regardless of the artificial ‘construct’ of ‘sides’ and colours and races..

  102. Vikrant — on 15th December, 2005 at 5:38 pm  

    so bikhair – you’re not asian? Really which continent are you from then?

    i’ll answer that.

    Pluto

  103. Muhammad Shaka Zulu Khalifa — on 15th December, 2005 at 6:04 pm  

    Asalam Aleikum sister Bikhair

    Do not be fooled by these kufar or appostates they only mean us harm!!!!; these battles of the keyboard are only a preview of the great battle to come, when their one-eyed leader will abandon them, and all them kaafireen will try to line up, single file, behind that one Yahoodi who is hiding behind a Gharqad tree[1].

    The Gharqad is the box thorn tree:

    Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985:

    Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

    Be warned, fear Allah for he is all powerfull and smart.

  104. Jay Singh — on 15th December, 2005 at 6:13 pm  

    First of all, these mouth-frothing fanatics by the name of Bikhair and the other one – get a life you mad dogs.

    Back to the topic in hand – Al Hack is absolutely right when he compares the apologist bloggers for the Australian racist lynch-mobs to those half witted Islamists who justify suicide bombing because of Israel and Iraq – they may not be crimes of similar magnitude, but the logic and reasoning is the same – one is murderous fascism, the other is justifying racist lynching.

    I am sure it wasnt just Lebanese who got a bashing – all darkies are game when the race rioters start sniffing for blood.

  105. Sumita — on 15th December, 2005 at 7:44 pm  

    Bikhair and Muhamad shaka..oh whatever. Do shut up!!!

    I have studied the Quran a great deal and have come away with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of decadence so visible today in the Muslim world, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion are to be feared.

  106. j0nz — on 15th December, 2005 at 7:52 pm  

    Al-Hack is right to point those points out as you mentioned Jay. However the utter one sided arrogance in this debate, not just here but in many places is breathtaking.

    This isn’t pure murderous evil versus 52 innocent lives.

    This is perhaps 100-200 hardcore neonazis and thousands of ordinary Australias who got out to show solidarity and to defend the beach from criminal gangs. And some ordinary Australians did get caught up in the violence.

    Statistically there were more white victims than brown skinned victims of serious violence. One person was stabbed. A white person. By someone of middle eastern apparance.

    But as I have said earlier #12, #17 I couldn’t give a fuck who’s more of a victim.

    There were many gangs of lebanese decent going around with guns, baseballs etc. By insuating that

    1. White Asutralians = racist

    2. I’m not going to discuss anything else due to number point number one.

    is just mindnumbingly myopic. Of course the racism is repulsive. But by ignoring years of intimidation is just twatish. And how the fuck is that apolgising for racial violence? Calling for balance?

    Al-Hacks comment insuating the Muslim immigrants bad behaviour was all made up like an urban myth was I’m sure just a wind-up. Even he couldnt be so dumb.

    Those who can’t/won’t discuss the deeper issues here would do well to read this post

  107. Jay Singh — on 15th December, 2005 at 8:15 pm  

    jonz

    I lose sympathy when 150-200 Neo-Nazis congregate and start baying for blood. I have a bad experience with them. Used to get beaten up, my father’s turban knocked off his head, know people who got stabbed and burnt out of their homes, by Neo Nazis. Hence my view is quite biased. Crazy, isnt it? Thinking that any congregation of Neo Nazis is likely to be at the very least a tainting of whatever righteous anger the crowd felt is not that controversial.

  108. Bikhair — on 15th December, 2005 at 8:17 pm  

    Vikrant,

    “Arabs and their barbaric culture doesnt measure upto ours.

    Doesnt Mohammed tell in Hadiths that camel urine is the cure-for-all wonder?”

    Awwwww how cute.

  109. Bikhair — on 15th December, 2005 at 8:20 pm  

    Sonia,

    “so bikhair – you’re not asian? Really which continent are you from then? Asia’s a big continent you know.”

    No I am not an Asian of any persuasion,nor amd I an Arab. I am an American, born in North America.

  110. j0nz — on 15th December, 2005 at 8:27 pm  

    Jai
    I am very sorry to hear that. I just wish some gang of white people came in and kicked the shit out of them for what they did. I like a bit of balance, I do.

  111. Al-Hack — on 15th December, 2005 at 8:34 pm  

    I think its time Rohin and I start bossing people around here.

    Bikhair and Vikrant – tweedledee and tweedledum – can both of you ignorants SHUT THE FUCK UP. I will delete your ass because I have that power. Neither of you idiots contribute much to this debate, specially you Bikhair – run along before I tell your husband that his burqa wearing woman is secretly chatting up men over the internet.

    jonz tell me something. If there were 4,500 well meaning Aussies on that beach, and only about 500 neo nazis, then why were they singing, or allowed to sing racist chants and go running and beat up any innocent non-white? I mean surely your well meaning mates might have the good sense to stop it because they clearly outnumbered the neo-nazis?

    That discussion on HP Sauce is full of whinny little pansies who don’t want to accept that Australians can be racist bastards too. Everything is blamed on Muslim non-integration. Forget the fact that most Lebanese in Aussieland are Christian and that plenty of other Muslim minorities in the country and settling in just fine.

    Oh no, we don’t wouldn’t want to let facts get in the way of a bit of Muslim bashing now would we?

  112. Siddharth — on 15th December, 2005 at 8:36 pm  

    j0nz:

    just wish some gang of white people came in and kicked the shit out of them for what they did. I like a bit of balance, I do.

    interesting that you think that would help to add “a bit of balance”. What if a gang of big strapping Punjabi guys kicked the shit out of them for what they did. Would you think that equally balanced? Or would precipitate more of your, er, logic, as per (107)?

    love
    s

  113. j0nz — on 15th December, 2005 at 8:52 pm  

    Siddarth I don’t really get what angle your aiming at me from, but yes that would be perfectly acceptable in my book! I was coming from the angle that some of you really feel personally affected by these neo-nazi thugs… I just wish there were more white people who were just as violently against racism. Yes I’m a bit twisted I know…

    Al-Hack your constant line that all the 5,000 are white racists and with no basis whatsoever for actual grievance is getting rather tiresome.

    How do you feel when I condemn ALL of those Muslims demonstating or rioting in Paris or Birmingham as intolerant scum? Did some of them at least not have legitimate grievances? And yes people died at the hand of Muslims in said instances, but does that detract the truth from the rest of them?

  114. Don — on 15th December, 2005 at 9:10 pm  

    ‘I think its time Rohin and I start bossing people around here.’
    I suspect that that is your own personal power trip rather than Rohin’s.

    ‘I will delete your ass because I have that power.’

    http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/903959/cartman_cop.jpg

    Having said that, fair point about Bikhair; she can be disturbingly flirtatious.

    I can’t agree with your comments that characterise posters (presumably) here and on HP as muslim bashers. Apart from the odd inevitable nutter, could you point some out?

    I don’t see how ‘the fact that most Lebanese in Aussieland are Christian and that plenty of other Muslim minorities in the country and settling in just fine.’ supports your position. As far as I can see the comments you so vehemently oppose are making the point that this was a localised response (reprehensible as it may be, yadda yadda) to a specific, ethnically and culturally cohesive group of violent thugs who have terrorised white, asian, polynesian and lebanese christian people for an extended period with no apparent police response. Naturally the Romper Stomper scumbags rode this particular wave, but the wider group involved have distanced themselves from that and do seem to be appalled at the undoubted racist element in the events (see Mirax #38).

  115. Tanvir — on 15th December, 2005 at 9:26 pm  

    I think these two immigrant communities: white ‘aussies’ and lebanese should learn to live together, and the aussie protests are just ironic and sad

  116. Kate — on 15th December, 2005 at 9:36 pm  

    If you want to think about the parallels between the Birmingham riot and the Cronulla riot, it’s interesting to note that whilst the violence in the west midlands was stoked by pirate radio DJs, the violence in Cronulla was stoked by a perfectly legitimate (although a complete tosser) DJ called Alan Jones.

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/alan-jones-i-led-this-charge/2005/12/12/1134236003153.html

    For most right thinking aussies, this guy is a nutcase, and a criminally reprehensible one at that. But there is a significant minority of people in Australia who lap his crap right up. Not to excuse the violent yobs on either side, (and sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent) but the media in Australia for the most part is weak, reprehensible, and sometimes even inflammatory and racist.

    For example – http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1442946.htm

  117. Don — on 15th December, 2005 at 9:43 pm  

    Tanvir,

    In a perfect world. Trouble with human beings is that if they ever found a perfect world they would comprehensively fuck it up in a single generation.

  118. jamal — on 15th December, 2005 at 11:58 pm  

    Don… that is true. Conflict is apparantly the human condition, which is evidently the norm in/between most societies. Peace is the exception.

    Al Hack asked “who is the victim?”. The victims are all those on either side that did not take part in the conflict, but will suffer from the fallout/aftermath for the next few years.

  119. douglas — on 16th December, 2005 at 1:36 am  

    Don,

    I agree with much of what you have said. I agree that it is a reaction to violent overbearing young men, who want to be seen as their own ‘police’. Who appear to be, in fact, a drug gang.

    What I am unhappy about is the inability of the wider community to target their aggression properly. It would be entirely reasonable for folk to be offended by the gangsters and try to deal with that. What is not reasonable, but seems to be human nature, is to attack anyone you might think comes from their ethnic group. That is the pish mob psychology that leads to, or might indeed be, racism.

    A crook is a crook, no matter what community they come from. It seems to me that the failur of the police to deal with this issue before it got out of hand is well worth investigating. I guess we can assume that that won’t happen then?

  120. Mount Lebanon — on 16th December, 2005 at 4:08 am  

    Al-Hack,

    I’m Lebanese(Catholic Maronite) your post is full of typical Muslim whinging about being victimized. I Immigrated to Australia a number of years ago. There is an anti-Muslim animus here but Muslims have(as in my native country) have not been the best ambassadors of their faith. Below is a little potted history of what has been happening on some beaches around Sydney.

    This problem has been brewing for a number of years. A day at the beach which was once something to look forward to is now an unpleasant experience. This is how Muslim types skate around the law when they go to the beach:

    They’ll deliberately kick a soccer ball at a mother and young child. If the ball strikes the child or mother they just smile. If the woman says anything she has three in-your-face Muslim types calling her a slut or whore and telling her to ‘get off our beach’. If a male goes to her aid the Muslim use the mobile phone and suddenly you’re surrounded by about 10 – 15 Muslims who want to belt an Aussie. These Muslim types walk behind teenage girls and call them sluts or whores and say ‘how would you like a 10 inch banana’. Other stuff they do is surround a couple of teenage girls sunbathing and jump on them. We have a movement on the beach known as Nippers which is to teach young kids (around 10 years of age) how to enjoy the beach and they are organised into teams and stuff like that (think little athletics). The ME types walk up to the kids and call the young girls ‘tarts’. As I said a day at the beach is nothing but a hassle at certain beaches.

    Our police force hierarchy has been politicised by our politicians and made impuissant by a pommie commissioner we had a few years back who promoted ‘yes men’ and got rid of a lot of good old fashioned cops. Believe it or not we had two female officers on patrol at Cronulla about 3 months ago. Can you imagine 20 Muslims itching to bash a cop being scared of two female officers?

    Our premier (something like a yank governor) Morris Iemma keeps talking about the law breakers facing the full force of the law. Once in court they get things like conferencing (for young offenders 14 – 15 -16 year-olds) or 120 hours community service by our limp wristed magistrates. I can almost smell the brown stuff running down the leg of a law breaker just thinking about it. 120 of community service – how will I cope?

    A couple of nights ago (Monday 12th from about 9pm) was a busy one for cops. Muslims came streaming out of the Lakemba mosque chanting god is great. Then they ‘visited’ some suburbs and smashed parked cars with baseball bats and steel bars etc.

    Muslim Arabs(Christian Arabs have intergrated quite well in Australia, as they have elsewhere in the West) have been urged via text messaging to turn up at Cronulla this Sunday 18th for a confrontation.

    How can we ever thank our politicians enough for bringing this mob into our country? Do we pay our politicians enough?

    Multiculturalism is a huge success in Australia. We have had enough, and you have the gall to call this Muslim bashing.

  121. Vikrant — on 16th December, 2005 at 7:39 am  

    Al Hack,Siddharth et al. i do apologise for getting a bit carried away with Bikhair.

    BTW isnt it high time you stop calling people who dont suscribe your apologising-for-jehadis-demonising-others brand of thinking as ignorant.

  122. raz — on 16th December, 2005 at 8:04 am  

    Originally posted by Mount Lebanon:

    “The ME types walk up to the kids and call the young girls ‘tarts’”

    LOL Aren’t you, ‘supposedly’ a Christian Arab, a ‘ME type’ yourself?! If you’re going to impersonate someone, at least try and make it look authentic :)

  123. Siddharth — on 16th December, 2005 at 8:26 am  

    Vikrant et al. Apology accepted apart for the bit about apologising for Jihadis demonising others. Don’t do that, in any case, see my post (102) for clarification.

  124. Siddharth — on 16th December, 2005 at 8:27 am  

    raz: you’re so right. If Mount Leb is indeed Lebanese, I’m Sir Les Paterson impersonating Peter Sellers impersonating an Indian doctor.

  125. Vikrant — on 16th December, 2005 at 8:51 am  

    me thinks “English/White slut” character is just nother piece of Bikhair’s psychofancy.

  126. Sajn — on 16th December, 2005 at 11:30 pm  

    “Here in the UK, the term “Asian” is used to refer only to people whose ethnicity originates from the Indian subcontinent, ie. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal. It’s the British equivalent of the American term “South Asian”.

    The Australian commenter was aware of this fact, as indicated by her subsequent apology. ”

    Jai I understand that. What I objected to was your classification of Lebanese to be non-Asians. I would expect you to know that they are as Asian as we are.

  127. sonia — on 10th January, 2006 at 4:15 am  

    yes interestingly a lot of arabs dont actually think of themselves as ‘asians’ – there’s an idea floating about in the middle east that ‘asians’ are the ‘rest of them over that way further east’ cos we’re closer to the ‘west’ and paler-skinned so we’re practically white.

    {asia = a continent with many countries and many people} really..no>!

    i do find it amusing how everyone likes to shit on someone ‘below’ them and then complain about racism or some other -ism that affects them. like in the indian sub-continent people complain about the ‘whites’ and then go on about how their neighbours daughter is so ‘kalo’/( black) they’ll never find a husband.

    humans are such hypocrites.

  128. sonia — on 10th January, 2006 at 4:17 am  

    integrate

    multiculturalism

    round and round the mulberry bush.

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