It’s time for brown people to switch to Tory


by Sunny
16th June, 2008 at 3:55 am    

Update 17th January 2011: A number of people keep referring to this post I wrote several years back, so its worth putting it in context as most won’t bother wading through the debate below and posts that followed this one.

I have never voted Conservative and never will. But during 2008 the Labour party was loudly supporting the use of racist stop-and-search powers, 90 days pre-charge detention and a constant barrage of anti-terrorism legislation used to target minorities, and hysterically shouting about how people in “ethnic ghettoes” were “refusing to integrate”.

It is paternalistic racism to say that minorities should stick with voting Labour under such circumstances given they were being targeted by this barrage. Most minorities are already quite socially conservative – they have stayed loyal to Labour primarily because of its relatively more open stance on immigration.

The only way lasting way to register your disapproval with a political party in a parliamentary democracy is to vote for a different political party. That is what I advocated here. I am not some Asian ‘community leader’ who can control people’s votes or force them in a particular direction. I merely stated my opinion that if people were pissed off with the spate of legislation then they should vote for another political party, after having discussed this with several people during that time.

I have since joined Labour, but only once Ed Miliband disowned much of the party’s earlier stance on civil liberties (stop and search, 42 days). My aim within Labour is to push for a more liberal and compassionate vision of politics. My point here could have been made less crudely, but there it is: I have a bad habit of writing tabloidy headlines.

—–
Original post

Word from the street (ok, the Compass annual conference then) is that ethnic short-lists are not entirely dead, contradicting an earlier newspaper report.

To recap: the Labour party has been considering allowing only candidates from non-white backgrounds to stand for specific parliamentary seats. They’re doing this because New Labour is still very racially monolithic. It comes on the back of the success of all-women shortlists, which the party had to sneak through internally because of the intense opposition it was expecting.

The word is that while they’re not entirely dead, they won’t be exclusively non-white but mixed with women shortlists. In other words a white woman and a black man could both stand under these new hybrid shortlists. Harriet Harman, who is pushing this, said quite sensibly (shocker, I know) that she didn’t want to create competition between race and sex discrimination. Given the routing Labour will probably get at the next election though I doubt this will be pushed through; it’ll be every middle-class white man for himself, the women and ethnics be damned. Heh.

Saying that… given that New Labour wants to extend anti-terrorism legislation until every brown person in the country is locked up until proven innocent (or once the police can be bothered to let you out), it makes more sense for brown and black people, who will overwhelmingly face the brunt of this police-state legislation, to vote Conservative. At least the Tories have finally found some balls regarding the erosion of our civil liberties. And yes, I felt slightly sordid saying that. But its worth thinking about – if you’re brown, then its not worth voting Labour for the sake of your own security.

Update: a follow-up to this post is here.

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Filed in: Civil liberties,Party politics






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  1. Craig vs Davis « Max Dunbar

    [...] office – has got to be naive bordering on delusional. (It’s disappointing to see Sunny Hundal urging a Tory vote on such [...]


  2. Owen Hatherley

    like lots of people on the left, I have various problems with the SWP. But none are problems as big as with this http://tinyurl.com/32otula


  3. .

    @sunny_hundal 'time for brown people to switch to Tory': http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Then you went LibDem, now Labour. Careerist cunt #netrootsuk


  4. .

    @sunny_hundal 'time for brown people to switch to Tory': http://bit.ly/12M1V7 thats 3 major parties in 3 years. Careerist cunt #netrootsuk


  5. .

    @sunny_hundal 'time for brown people to switch to Tory': http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Which party you backing next sunny boy? #netrootsuk #classwar


  6. Northern Voices

    @sunny_hundal admirers – be aware that he advocated voting Tory as lately as 2008 http://goo.gl/H2S1s – then Lib Dem, now Labour #netrootsuk


  7. Huw Lemmey

    @OwenJones84 Not a sellout, just a marketplace of ideas http://tiny.cc/0hdkf http://tiny.cc/agsms http://tiny.cc/durg5


  8. visionOntv

    Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought the people that don't should know……


  9. visionOntv

    #netrootsuk Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought that people that dont should know….


  10. Northern Voices

    RT @visionOntv: #netrootsuk Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought that people that …


  11. caer23

    RT @visionOntv: #netrootsuk Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought that people that …


  12. cellabiao

    RT @visionOntv: #netrootsuk Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought that people that …


  13. Joanne Platt

    @visionOntv http://bit.ly/12M1V7 « Oh dear! Seems like @sunny_hundal isn't immune to Tory bullshit! Give him 5 yrs and he'll be fully cured!


  14. Kit Withnail

    RT @visionOntv: #netrootsuk Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought that people that …


  15. Simon Hewitt

    RT @visionOntv: #netrootsuk Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought that people that …


  16. Splintered Sunrise

    RT @visionOntv: #netrootsuk Seems that @sunny_hundal recommended voting Tory in 2007 http://bit.ly/12M1V7 Just thought that people that …


  17. Lisa Ansell

    Vote Tory in 2007.http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2064


  18. Hugo K Biedermann

    @AKblackandred Whoops! One of those should have been http://t.co/KCdhs4c


  19. Hugo K Biedermann

    @piercepenniless shit, one of those should have been http://t.co/KCdhs4c


  20. Hugo K Biedermann

    Sunny Hundals "broad coalition" in three easy steps http://t.co/KCdhs4c http://t.co/p7JsakT http://t.co/uMivVXb


  21. Michael Oswell

    RT @spitzenprodukte: Sunny Hundals "broad coalition" in three easy steps http://t.co/KCdhs4c http://t.co/p7JsakT http://t.co/uMivVXb


  22. Phil Dickens

    RT @spitzenprodukte: @AKblackandred Whoops! One of those should have been http://t.co/KCdhs4c


  23. Hugo K Biedermann

    @HarpyMarx http://t.co/uMivVXb http://t.co/p7JsakT http://t.co/KCdhs4c Sunny takes centrism to an extreme.


  24. Huge Rection

    werth looking at forra laff http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2064 the fuckker is the thikest cunt on the internet shit. saying sumfng


  25. Hugo K Biedermann

    @boutmycolumn @stormingheaven http://t.co/KCdhs4c http://t.co/p7JsakT http://t.co/uMivVXb SUNNY HUNDAL'S ANTI-SECTARIANISM IN 3 EASY URLS


  26. abolish wage labour

    RT @spitzenprodukte: @boutmycolumn @stormingheaven http://t.co/KCdhs4c http://t.co/p7JsakT http://t.co/uMivVXb SUNNY HUNDAL'S ANTI-SECTA …


  27. JC

    @sunny_hundal thought i'd post this: http://tinyurl.com/32otula so that's every party you've advocated voting for now. least i'm consistent.


  28. Lalgarh NewsNetwork

    RT @sunny_hundal: It's time for brown people to switch to Tory http://bit.ly/fv5c5N, Sunny Hundal, 16th June 2008 #FuriousBackPedalling


  29. Lalgarh NewsNetwork

    @radiocontroldan A handy reminder of Sunny Hundal 16/6/08 http://bit.ly/fv5c5N He deletes any1 who mentions this #Time4BrownPpl2Switch2Tory


  30. sunny hundal

    @alexcruzvidal @HarryLangford see the post here and make up your own mind http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2064


  31. Patrick Cusworth

    @edwestonline Is this "Leftie" the same Sunny Hundal who announced that “it’s time for brown people to vote Tory”? http://bit.ly/12M1V7


  32. Polite Ire

    @AvaVidal Clueless opportunist at that – Supports Labour http://t.co/XaxXgp8 Tory http://t.co/w7gTpff AND Libdems http://t.co/66LwQ4w


  33. Red Naylor

    @MediocreDave Yeee son http://t.co/iixZnhYf


  34. Dick Mandrake

    @woodo79 Same Funny Hundal who told black voters to vote Conservative, right? http://t.co/Wo9cdn6M


  35. Splintered Sunrise

    @Mr_Eugenides Don't forget his classic "it's time for brown people to go Tory" phase. http://t.co/KYJnLMCW


  36. Lee Jasper

    @Sunny Hundal urged "brown" people switch to Tory 2008 he switched to Lib Dem 2010 today he is Labour! http://t.co/DOx7ExLq #rankopportunist


  37. Splintered Sunrise

    @paulstead13 Knock yourself out http://t.co/KYJnLMCW


  38. Spitzenprodukte

    @toadmeister @sunny_hundai Well he's already done Tory… http://t.co/JZTU3l9O


  39. Toby Young

    More evidence that @sunny_hundal is all over the shop. In 2008, he backed the Tories! http://t.co/XiCH4RbL


  40. Harry Scoffin

    More evidence that @sunny_hundal is all over the shop. In 2008, he backed the Tories! http://t.co/XiCH4RbL


  41. Dan Hodges

    More evidence that @sunny_hundal is all over the shop. In 2008, he backed the Tories! http://t.co/XiCH4RbL


  42. torygirl

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  43. torygirl

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  44. Alexander Wickham

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  45. Alexander Wickham

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  46. Raheem Kassam

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  47. Raheem Kassam

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  48. Dan Clegg

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  49. Dan Clegg

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  50. Top Tory Tweets

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  51. Narrative 2020

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  52. bowforward

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  53. The Commentator

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  54. Bow Group

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  55. KeepRightOnline

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  56. KeepRightOnline

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  57. The Commentator

    In 08 Sunny says vote Tory: http://t.co/Fi0LHHLs '10 Lib: http://t.co/yQ5b1900 '11Lab: http://t.co/BaSmlngE '12 Green: http://t.co/Hyqun2aR


  58. sunny hundal

    @lukey_stanger read the post http://t.co/Sq2asKhR and this http://t.co/TVXKkIkj


  59. Splintered Sunrise

    @janhopis He was LibDem then. And before that, there was this gem http://t.co/acy9y86j


  60. Chaminda Jayanetti

    @lisaansell3 @RevPaulCA @sunny_hundal Voila http://t.co/sK0sYYlI


  61. Huw Lemmey

    @PereLebrun @joolsd @piercepenniless @true_wheel Not quite: first http://t.co/JZTPvL0E then http://t.co/uug7spBt then http://t.co/a94MFkHL




  1. John Miles — on 16th June, 2008 at 6:46 am  

    “given that New Labour wants to extend anti-terrorism legislation until every brown person in the country is locked up until proven innocent”

    That’s a cheap comment Sunny and unlike you.

  2. jungle — on 16th June, 2008 at 7:54 am  

    John Miles: “That’s a cheap comment Sunny and unlike you.”

    I have to agree – although I do think there’s a lot of subsurface racism buried in this drive for authoritarian legislation… it pales in comparison to the cheap shots made at British Muslims for “refusing to integrate” and “justifying terror” etc which have been used to legitimise removing their civil liberties.

    Of course we’ve actually been removing *everyone’s* civil liberties, but when you talk to proponents of this type of legislation that’s not normally how they see it.

  3. MaidMarian — on 16th June, 2008 at 8:50 am  

    Sunny – the article is on the hysterical side, but beyond that you are working on the rather blithe assumption that a Conservative government would be under different pressures. Are you seriously telling me that the soemthing must be done crowd would not turn their fire on a Conservative government?

    Like it or not (clearly you do not) governments have weighed up the situation, yes, including the politics and media implications and have made a decision on 42 days. That has made you and others on the internet go off on one. But to come up with, ‘the Tories have finally found some balls regarding the erosion of our civil liberties,’ is one-eyed and then some. Opposition is easy.

    On a slightly separate point, I am starting to get narked by the throw-away use of the term, ‘police-state,’ that has rapidly become common currency around the web. If you think that Britain is a police state, then I suggest that you go and speak to people who have actually lived in a genuine police state. Suffice to say that they don’t have debates, votes and laws about 42 days or any other period. Nor are they indulgent of internet hysterics.

  4. Chris Paul — on 16th June, 2008 at 9:10 am  

    Is this just link bait? Or for a dare? In Manchester Tories campaigned with Hizb_ut-Tahrir literature as well as their own. Are you mad?

    You will of course know that David Davis not only would have hanged various wrongfully convicted Irish convicts but also would lock up every asylum seeker and refugee he can get his hands on.

  5. Diversity — on 16th June, 2008 at 9:27 am  

    To the devil with that!

    What anyone with a good sun-tan – temporary or permanent – needs to do is:

    1. Support politicians who you can trust not to go silly about the colours of people’s skin.
    2. Make the established powers that be take notice of us as citizens.

    On both counts, the best tactic is to vote not Labour. not Tory, but LibDem.

  6. Gege — on 16th June, 2008 at 9:28 am  

    Sunny, I don’t think it’s appropriate to advise ‘brown’ people how to vote. Like you say, we are all individuals.

    The fact that the civil rights issue is high on your agenda does not mean it is also high on the agenda of all ‘browns’. some might be more concerned with taxation, others with immigration etc.

    Focus on individuals and dump this ‘group’ politics!!

  7. Unitalian — on 16th June, 2008 at 9:32 am  

    Yes, sordid is the word.

  8. MaidMarian — on 16th June, 2008 at 9:35 am  

    Just to add to my previous comment – I wonder what David Davis would make of all-Women or all-ethnic shortlists?

  9. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 9:44 am  

    I wonder what voters would make of them.

  10. tim — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:13 am  

    “given that New Labour wants to extend anti-terrorism legislation until every brown person in the country is locked up until proven innocent”

    How many Sikhs have been held up to 28 days Sunny?

  11. Rumbold — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:48 am  

    “It’s time for brown people to switch to Tory.”

    My work here is done.

    Seriously though, large numbers of the Conservative Parliamentary Party and its supporters agree with the 42 day limit, and apart from David Davis, you have very few classical liberals at the top of the Conservative tree. If you want to vote Labour out on civil liberties grounds, then voting for anyone but the Conservatives is probably the best strategy.

  12. Jess — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:50 am  

    The Tories’ appreciation of civil liberties will last exactly long enough to get them into power and no longer.

  13. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:51 am  

    Focus on individuals and dump this ‘group’ politics!!

    1. Support politicians who you can trust not to go silly about the colours of people’s skin.

    Yep

  14. Rumbold — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:51 am  

    Brave post by the way.

  15. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:53 am  

    Sunny,

    Are you fugging stupid or something? Yes that is a serious question.

    What are “brown” people? Who makes it into the “brown” category? What exactly is the threshold for achieving “brown” status?

    You are a racist plonker – pure and simple. This article should really be reported to the police for its odious disicrimantory appeal.

    Frankly, the Tories dont need odious nut-jobs like you to win an election. And they would do well by staying well clear. You need to affiliate yourself with the BNP, because your mind shares the same gutter with them.

  16. Benedict White — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:53 am  

    Interesting article Sunny. Funnily enough when we Conservatives shout about civil liberties, we don’t think about the colour of peoples skin, but the proponents clearly do, the implication being “come on, this isn’t going to apply to you, your white”.

    We don’t care, it is the principle, as well as the practicalities.

    That said, yes there are some Conservatives who would support 42 days it seems. It is one of the reasons why I think David Davis is right to make the case. Oh, David is no liberal.

  17. Mr Eugenides — on 16th June, 2008 at 10:55 am  

    Wow. Good luck with this. Something tells me that it won’t be popular…

  18. Leon — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:03 am  

    Something tells me that it won’t be popular…

    And the winner of ‘Understatement Of The Year 2008′ award goes to…

  19. BenSix — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:06 am  

    Gege is right, ‘race’ should never be treated as a monolith.

    As I, regrettably, am sure Mike is only the first contributor to a ‘debate’ with many a ‘cunt’ and ‘plonker’, that’s all that I’m going to say.

  20. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:13 am  

    its quite interesting that Sunny you think the Tories will not face similar pressures to ‘stand strong and tough’ when they are in power, and that some Labour MP wouldn’t resign in protest.

    every group which has been in power – regardless on what platform they claim to be standing up to – will come up with something we don’t like, the ‘other side’ will try and make it look like they wouldn’t have done the same. {it’s a well known politician’s trick – really some of the commentators around/journalists would make terrible politicians!}

    there are really too many ‘strong state’ types floating around and it is foolish to think Conservatives don’t fall into that category because they claim they are in favour of ‘minimal government’ – a fine piece of rhetoric if i ever heard one.

    “I am in favour of minimal government, therefore I will stand for power to tell you to do x y and z.”

  21. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:14 am  

    by the way, i don’t know if anyone has considered this, but what having ethnic minority shortlists do apart from change the “image” of our governance system?

    Hmm- is that of any interest to anyone at all?

  22. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:16 am  

    what will having ethnic minority shortlists do apart from change the “image” of our governance system? So we have some different coloured MPs -great! they look like us! therefore they must think like us! they must have “our” interests at heart!

  23. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:22 am  

    or female MPs – fat lot of different that makes to any female, if my MP is female it really doesn’t mean jack.. she could be a total bitch and not be any more good for me than a man could. for exampe why do people consider childcare a ‘female’ issue? its not, it affects both parents. “women’s” issues aren’t about women only – they’re about all of us. But even if i thought in the box of “women’s issues” would i really think a female MP is going to somehow be better for me? No obviously not, only a child of 2 would think that. Do i think someone “brown” is going to have my interests at heart automatically because we have more melanin in our skins? Again, perhaps a child or two would think that. Interestingly, the main group of people who DO think that shared genetics mean something are too often found propping up racism as an ideology.

  24. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:23 am  

    If this is seriously the level of debate, is it suprising the masses are politically apathetic!??

  25. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:24 am  

    Sonia

    Brown people are part of an international brotherhood. They commune subliminally, though special spectoral vibrations, which eminate from the melanin producing cells in their skin.

    Sunny heads up an international committee of experts who determine whether a person qualifies as a “brown person” or not. Because I look a little middle eastern, I qualify as a brown person during the summer months only.

  26. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:25 am  

    (Incidentally, I shall now be referring to Sunny as “the Tory blogger, Sunny Hundal”)

  27. FluffyThoughts (E.D.P.) — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:27 am  

    It’s not just Jihadists who are being held under Anti-Terror Laws. Tamil Tigers are also being held (for illegal activities). [Source: The Economist, 13th June 2008.]

    Do you not see a current common trend? But many are you are also correct. Vote as individuals, and not on race, religion or colour. That may include Tories or my party, the English Democrats!

    As for how many Sikhs have been held under current legislation, mark your words. If Canada gives her nod, then these brownies [sic] may be next, and then…?

  28. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:28 am  

    is that Sunny Hundal? The same who writes for the Guardian? Can someone confirm please.

  29. Don — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:32 am  

    If you really believe that civil liberty is the key issue and that the tories are taking a principled position, then vote tory by all means. Personally I think you would have to be a sucker to believe the second part of that, but I can see how it would make sense..

    If you are seriously suggesting that people should switch en masse because of ethnic origin … well, maybe you need a holiday.

  30. MaidMarian — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:33 am  

    Sonia – I suspect that the image question will not be a concern upto the point where one of those off one of these shortlists is caught in a scandal. At which point I imagine all hell could break loose.

    David T (25) – ‘I qualify as a brown person during the summer months only.’ Very droll!

  31. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:33 am  

    Yes it seems that way & i find this all highly disturbing to my individualist outlook on life. I don’t think we’re going to go anywhere with this ‘herd mentality’ – all that will happen is exactly what happens when “positive” discrimination by arbitrary rule kicks in – people say ‘oh so and so is only in cos they’re black or female innit’! There is also something ridiculously insulting about thinking inequalities in life can be addressed by having an ethnic minority shortlists. These things are not ‘addressed’ by ‘one’ intervention which involves saying – i will have you because you look like this. I don’t see at all how “push-button” rules about who gets onto canditate lists is somehow contributing to getting wider society – who are not involved – in the democratic process. Or making it meaningful to those who are apathetic.

    It’s the usual’oh we’ve got to tick our diversity boxes’ how will we do that and how can we get the ‘brown’ vote seeing as “they” are a monolithic group. This is pandering to the usual politicians divide and conquer trick. You are “this” demographic, how can we woo you?

  32. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:37 am  

    “‘I qualify as a brown person during the summer months only.’ Very droll!”

    true. and if other folks who don’t tan so well get some artificial bronzer, do you think they could get onto the shortlists too? i mean, it wouldn’t be fair would it- to discriminate on the basis of ‘oh you weren’t BORN this way!’ your BLOOD has to be brown !

    and anyway, you’re allowed to self-define aren’t you -what’s to stop everyone from saying they’re not white because of some ancestor? just because they look “white’ doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to identify with their great grandmother’s cousin’s great niece who was Polynesian or something.

    I mean this does raise serious questions on how people view the immutability of race.

    If I were an underprivileged young bloke in Hainault on a council estate who happened to be white i would be pretty pissed that people don’t recognise I pretty far removed from the life of Whitehall. Of course as Brown Female i should probably taking advantage and manipulating my career.

  33. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:39 am  

    What about Freddie Mercury? Did he qualify as brown?

  34. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:41 am  

    29. don – well said. im starting to wonder if sunny is just pulling all our collective legs?

  35. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:46 am  

    I can’t dance worth shit. Can i still be in the “brown” category?

  36. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:48 am  

    anyway, its men who have to worry about police more – white or brown or black women don’t get anywhere near the same amount of trouble/arrests/stop and searches. this is a well known fact statistically. So perhaps you should try and get a Male MP to stand up for you lot. :-) Ooh wait, how about a male Prime Minister? OH WAIT! WE HAVE ONE ALREADY! you mean he didnt stand up for your rights – but you’re both blokes – where did the solidarity of the International Brotherhood go?

    perhaps we need more male police officers? Oh wait, they are too mostly male? Dearie me, it just seems its YOU blokeys who can’t get along!

  37. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:49 am  

    of course Mike, we’ll have everyone :-) oH WAIT! we can’t – shit, we wouldn’t be a minority anymore and we’d be the majority! oh no, then we’d be the ones having to dole out pats on the head to the ‘rest’ and give out sympathy MP jobs

  38. Venichka — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:50 am  

    (Incidentally, I shall now be referring to Sunny as “the Tory blogger, Sunny Hundal”)

    Oh, Come, Come, (a) there is nothing shameful in being a Tory blogger, in any case
    and (b) David T was far more enthuisastic in acting to promote the interests and campaign of the tory candidate at a specific election, to a post with a substantially greater amount of power than the average MP, recently, over a prolonged period of time, than Sunny is being here.

    “David T The Tory Blogger”, howaboutit?

  39. Jai Patel — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:51 am  

    I am kind of “light brown”. Do i count as “brown” you should really have a colour chart if you are going to classify people as brown?

    I already vote Conservative, many of my friends who also happen to be “brown”, although one is really “tan brown” also vote Conservative and are really active in the Party. We don’t need people like you telling us to Vote Conservative.

    It isnt something dramatically new…Asians sorry “brown” people voting conservative. The policy unit and Conservative central office does have “brown” people working there, its not some new phenomena to have “brown” people voting Conservative. So this whole its time for “brown” people to vote Conservative is moronic because we were ahead of you Sunny…years ago. Its quite laughable Sunny, you telling people to Vote Tory, maybe soon you will be writing for the Telegraph instead of the Guardian. Can it be? Mister Sunny Hundal Tory Boy!

  40. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:52 am  

    nothing wrong in being a tory blogger – why should there? if there is nothing wrong in being a Labour blogger I cant see the problem in being a tory blogger. if you believe in any of these political parties…why there are no “problems”! wasting a lot of time though when it could be spent in independent thought – but hey that never got anyone’s careers anywhere so..

  41. Sid — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:52 am  

    “Say it loud, I’m Tory and Proud”

    just doesn’t do it for me. Your mileage may vary. Personally, I’m surprised that the Tories are taking a principled stance on many issues that make New Labour look bankrupt, in every sense of the word. So, yeah, voting Tory is no longer the anathema it once was for left-leaning immigrants. So I don’t think Sunny is being as contentious and contrarian as the imflammatory title of this article makes him out to be. Or maybe he’s joined the Spiked cult, I dunno.

  42. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:53 am  

    Perhaps i am feeling somewhat cynical on a Monday morning…? Let me go and feel refreshed that as a Brown Female i can Represent the masses adequately.

  43. Morgoth — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:56 am  

    and anyway, you’re allowed to self-define aren’t you -what’s to stop everyone from saying they’re not white because of some ancestor?

    Amen. On behalf of the Celtic-Pale-Pink-With-Some-Freckles Liberation Front*, I commend you.

    The amount of melanin in the skin is a fucking stupid thing to get worked up about. What next? Hair colour jihads? Eye-colour discrimation? The sooner we all have frantic inter-racial sex and our descendants have lovely coffee-coloured skins, the better for us and our descendants.

    * Watch out for the Celtic-Pale-Pink-With-Some-Freckles-Ginger-Twat Liberation Front though. Bunch of splitters.

  44. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:58 am  

    Jai patel – heh good one.

    Of course there should be no suprise that many Asian people might vote Conservative! Why its a marriage made in heaven..Social conservativism and victorian family values! Proper mores! Economic strong-arming through strong institutions in the name of “free trade”! And So many of us come from imperialist backgrounds, and if we don’t we’d damn well like the chance to have been! Goodness, there is such a restricted view of what is to be “brown” in this country it is almost Ludicrous.

  45. Morgoth — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:00 pm  

    Goodness, there is such a restricted view of what is to be “brown” in this country it is almost Ludicrous.

    Don’t you get it yet, Sonia? You’ve been on PP long enough to realise that “brown” is what Sunny Hundal says it is.

  46. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:03 pm  

    “Celtic-Pale-Pink-With-Some-Freckles Liberation Front” heh morgoth :-) as jai patel says, we’ll need a colour chart, why should we all be lumped in as “brown” if we cant be lumped in the “human skin of some shade or other” category? i’d like to be in the mocha group if i could, i think those cappucino types are so flighty!

    Shall we go down the Sepia Mutiny’s alleged obsession about who was lighter than whom and alleged upset-ness about Punjabis being “lighter” and “Latin” compared to darker Tamils? I mean surely this must mean that Tamils should get more spots on the shortlist than the lighter skinned Punjabis who clearly have more chance of fitting in? And ditto for those pale-skinned Arabs too. And therefore someone who is more black than say Beyonce..should get priority..! honey, you’re not dark enough, so you dont get a spot on the shortlist.

  47. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:05 pm  

    And what about British converts to islam? Are they considered ” brown” once they convert? So can the “browness” come from religious leanings as well? Really interested to know how “brown” Sunny distinguishes those who are truly “brown” from those pretenders.

  48. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:06 pm  

    i have been on PP long enough to know what brown is what you are if you’re not white and not black. :-)

  49. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:07 pm  

    yes good question Mike Morris, change your name to a Muslim sounding one and that will count i reckon..

  50. sonia — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:11 pm  

    i suggest we have a campaign to ‘brown-up’ everyone so we can represent ourselves in parliament. Frankly given the state of political commentary in this country i wouldn’t trust too many of you out there ( no offence y’all) to represent me or my interests. :-)

    and anyway, final comment from me: MPs dont represent anyone apart from themeselves/their careers in the world of Politics/their family’s expense account!

    ha, there’s a surprise for some of you i bet :-)

    we need wider reform, of the role of an MP and the constraints which make it a job which has nothing to do with us – apart from using us as an “excuse” to win seats – not just who gets on a f**ing shortlist to stand as an MP.

  51. Ravi Naik — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:14 pm  

    29. don – well said. im starting to wonder if sunny is just pulling all our collective legs?

    Not sure, Sonia. For the past few months, Sunny’s posts have become hysterical, unhinged, and rather lazy. Long were the days where he engaged politics in a rational and sensible way – like the NG manifesto. He needs some sort of counselling or intervention.

    I certainly would consider voting for Tories for the sake of democratic rotation and the fact that the current Tory brand is right-centre and I can live with that, but asking people to vote on ethnic grounds in addition to paranoia and fear, is just wrong. And I am not talking about the BNP.

  52. Parvinder Singh — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:17 pm  

    Are we naive to think the tories have suddenly become libertarians? If they were in power, I think they would also have backed the police on 42 days. Having said that, I am watching Cameron and dare I say it, warming up to him (not literally I may add) as he moves his party to the middle ground. I’ve voted Labour all my life, and have had the stuff knocked out of me over Iraq and recently over the rise of child poverty and credit crunch.
    I also agree with some of the comments here that colour shouldn’t come into it, that is so 80s. The question of balancing security and civil liberty affects all of us. The economy, rising prices and stability in the housing market will decide the next election and if Mr Brown can’t sort it out in time, Labour will be out. If that does happen, I can see why some on the left may be positioning themselves for such an outcome. Nothing wrong with that?

  53. Jai Patel — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:18 pm  

    I have just looked in the mirror, after yesterdays sun i think i have changed to “sun kissed brown”.

    Those brown pretenders! its not cool to be “brown” anymore it used to be with Goodness Gracious Me..ooh back then if you were “brown” you were totally cool.
    So who would want to pretend to be brown?

    Asians have always had strong a business and entrepenurial culture; build up businesses, believe strongly in the family and in self reliance. Conservatives have always reflected these values.

    So again i say people are not going to Vote for Conservative just because 1) Sunny tells them to 2) they are worried about terror leglisation seriously affecting them.

  54. Jai Patel — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:24 pm  

    Are we naive to think the tories have suddenly become libertarians?

    They were always libertarian! small state, indivdualism….. sound familiar? Conservatives? yes?

  55. ashik — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:25 pm  

    ‘Brown ppl’ will not vote for the Tories in large numbers as block voters because of the perennial threat to immigration presented by the Tories. Their rightwing opposition to immigration generally (if somewhat unfairly) brands them as standoffish and racist to many ppl.

  56. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:33 pm  

    Okay I’ve noticed all the cool people appear to be in the “brown” category.

    Why oh why was i born white??? I hate life i hate my parents they have ruined my life!!!!!!!!

  57. justforfun — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:38 pm  

    Sunny is having a Malteser moment. :-)

    Brown on the outside – blonde on the inside.

    Rumbold My work here is done. LOL

    I thought it would take longer, but congratulations nevertheless.

    justforfun

  58. justforfun — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:41 pm  

    Ravi – I certainly would consider voting for Tories for the sake of democratic rotation and the fact that the current Tory brand is right-centre and I can live with that, but asking people to vote on ethnic grounds in addition to paranoia and fear, is just wrong. And I am not talking about the BNP.

    just what I was thinking.

    justforfun

  59. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:43 pm  

    Certain “brown people” may well vote for an anti-immigration party, if they perceive a threat to their interests from the immigration of other “brown people” who are not their relatives.

    yes good question Mike Morris, change your name to a Muslim sounding one and that will count i reckon..

    There’s that white bloke, the son of BBC supremo, John Birt.

    He has named himself after a very unpopular character in the first of the Star Wars pre-quels.

    Perhaps he is now brown.

  60. Dan — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:51 pm  

    “‘Brown ppl’ will not vote for the Tories in large numbers as block voters because of the perennial threat to immigration presented by the Tories. Their rightwing opposition to immigration generally (if somewhat unfairly) brands them as standoffish and racist to many ppl.”

    If you’ve ever listened to Asian radio talk shows, you’d know that British Asians are as anti-immigration as anyone else. Callers constantly bemoan the influx of East Europeans, echoing the sentiments of London dockers when they felt threatened by the immigration of Asian asylum seekers from Uganda. So, the Tory policy of linking immigration to skills shortages in order to limit the flow is likely to be welcomed by a significant number of British Asians. Additionally, the Tories are seeing an increase in Asians in their membership, as the Asian community becomes more affluent and middle-class. The Asian vote is becoming less loyal to Labour for socio-economic reasons as well as opposition to the Iraq War (although Tory support for the war means that they have not necessarily switched allegiences to the Conservatives).

  61. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:55 pm  

    Okay lets hear from the “brown” people – whoever you are:

    Are you happy to be grouped as the “brown” people? Will it be okay for me to walk down the street, point at you and say..”oh look, a brown person!”?

    Can i send Sunny my hospital bill when someone breaks my nose?

  62. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 12:59 pm  

    David T

    Darth vader is “brown” for sure. He may even be more than “brown” because his voice sure is deep. I’ve noticed the “browns” voices are alot like the “white” ones, and higher pitched than the “black” ones.

    Would it be okay to call orientals “yellow” people? Since there seems to be a regressive movement here on PP to put community relations back about 200 years lets go all the way folks!!!

  63. MaidMarian — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:10 pm  

    Ashik (55) – You are making some enormous assumptions there. I think that you will find that many immigrants of any colour have political, socal, moral and economic values well to the right of Margaret Thatcher.

    Indeed, if anyone out there right now is living the Thatcher dream of small-enterprise it is the Asian shop-keeper and the Polish plumber.

    Do you actually have any evidence for your assertion that there is what could be termed a ‘gratitude vote?’ I am not saying that immigrants will necessarily cleave to the right, but it seems a stretch to assert that being an immigrant results in a pro-labour bent.

  64. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:12 pm  

    Can we call Native Americans “Redskins”?

    Darth Vader is an interesting case, because his voice was that of James Earl Jones (who is a “brown person”) but his body was that of Dave “Green Cross Code” Prowse (who is a “West Country person”)

  65. Ravi Naik — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:15 pm  

    Are you happy to be grouped as the “brown” people? Will it be okay for me to walk down the street, point at you and say..”oh look, a brown person!”?

    Well, it is rude to point at anyone and say “Oh look, a (adjective) person”. Which is besides the point.

    As humans, we feel the need to classify things. Race, culture, village, religion, color of skin. I have no problems to be classified on any of these grounds.

    What I don’t accept is politics that exploit those divisions, by fear, resentment and victimisation.

  66. Sid — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:20 pm  

    Can we call Native Americans “Redskins”?

    A friend of mine used to refer to white English Anglicans as “Foreskins” until he realised that most brown Southasians are uncircumcised. The Four Skins were also a great skinhead band.

  67. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:23 pm  

    They were indeed

    Didn’t they have a song, the lyrics of which were:

    “Who you lookin’ at, lookin’ at, lookin’ at/Who you lookin’ at, lookin’ at…/COZ IT BETTER NOT BE ME!”

  68. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:23 pm  

    David T

    “Darth Vader is an interesting case, because his voice was that of James Earl Jones (who is a “brown person”) but his body was that of Dave “Green Cross Code” Prowse (who is a “West Country person”)”

    Yes i knew it! But is he “black” or “brown”? I was hoping Sunny would indulge us with his tonal judgement…

  69. Random Guy — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:27 pm  

    Bwwaahahahaa, just read the title of this article!

    Nice one Sunny….

    Um, you are joking right?

  70. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:27 pm  

    Ravi,

    “Well, it is rude to point at anyone and say “Oh look, a (adjective) person”. Which is besides the point.

    As humans, we feel the need to classify things. Race, culture, village, religion, color of skin. I have no problems to be classified on any of these grounds.

    What I don’t accept is politics that exploit those divisions, by fear, resentment and victimisation.”

    You are quite right. But this is the problem when we accept classifications such as Sunny’s “brown” people. Why is okay for Sunny to make this distinction and attribute it to a skin tone in a politcial reference and not make the same distinction when doing business with people or socialising.

    Its like ordering “brown” people to join a different queue than the “white” people. It’s just as outrageous.

    The problem is about where does one draw the line after having opened a can of worms based on skin colour.

  71. Sid — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:34 pm  

    The Four Skins were responsible for songs which were quite prescient.

    One Rule For Them

    We’ve been warned of rivers of blood
    See the trickle before the flood
    Pretend nothing happened, make no fuss
    One law for them, One for us

    One law for them, One law for them,
    One law for them, and another law for us

    No fun, no homes, no job, no use
    what else is used as an excuse
    Families fighting, familes looting
    next theres death, then theres shooting

    One law for them, One law for them,
    One law for them, and another law for us

    Riots in London, blame Old Bill
    We’ve been lucky no ones killed
    Violence on the streets, more to follow
    Freedom for those freedom fighters

    One law for them, One law for them,
    One law for them, and another law for us

  72. Desi Italiana — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:38 pm  

    Hey, I have a very serious question regarding politics and my skin color which is about to cause me a breakdown if someone doesn’t answer me.

    My skin color varies, depending on the season. For a while, I was ‘brown’, but right now, I am of the dark, dark brown shade. If I give it about another month under the scorching sun of Kathmandu, I’ll be past ‘brown’.

    Am I classified as ‘brown’? Or only during the winter months? And if I can’t always ‘claim’ brown, who the hell should I vote for?

    Help.

  73. Unitalian — on 16th June, 2008 at 1:55 pm  

    This isn’t a career move btw is it Sunny? Rats, ship, sinking, et al? It would certainly be the smart one, careerwise I mean…

  74. Hermes123 — on 16th June, 2008 at 2:27 pm  

    Where is Sunny hiding in all this? Come on mate…we need a reaction from you to all this crap that you seem to have stirred up with this post. Or maybe you are posting under another name…

  75. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 2:29 pm  

    Sunny is kinda like Angel.

    He only operates at night…

    (And if he ever becomes truely happy, he turns evil)

  76. Mr Eugenides — on 16th June, 2008 at 2:32 pm  

    Typical Tory blogger, only posts for shock value.

  77. BenSix — on 16th June, 2008 at 2:40 pm  

    Mr E,

    Where does that leave Luke Akehurst? Not in sincerity, I trust.

  78. digitalcntrl — on 16th June, 2008 at 3:04 pm  

    “My skin color varies, depending on the season. For a while, I was ‘brown’, but right now, I am of the dark, dark brown shade. If I give it about another month under the scorching sun of Kathmandu, I’ll be past ‘brown’.

    Am I classified as ‘brown’? Or only during the winter months? And if I can’t always ‘claim’ brown, who the hell should I vote for?”

    Your brown deal with it. You could be an albino or a charred piece of meat and you would still be brown, its all about blood. As for voting, instructions shall follow…

  79. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 3:07 pm  

    Desi,

    You are lucky in that you can be “white” people and “brown” people at the same time. So I guess, if we extrapolate from Sunny’s model, you are just as likely to be banged up on false terrorist charges during summer than other “brown” people. The rest of the year you are okay – go crazy!:-)

  80. Sunny — on 16th June, 2008 at 3:39 pm  

    This view that if you so much as use the word “brown”, then you’re racist, is really the height of internet stupidity.

    Yes I know people like Morgoth are stupid trolls but it surprises me how many other somewhat sane people fall for it.

    Let me clarify something. If I said:
    “all white people are bastards” or
    “white people are stupid” or
    “white people are genetically inferior”, or
    “white people are unclean, disgusting and throw rubbish out of their windows”…. or that
    “white people are likely to blow themselves up or kill non-white people randomly and therefore we should be wary of them”..

    then THAT would be racist. It implies the denigration of another race.

    Just using the word “white” or “black” or “brown” is not racist any more than saying “old” is ageist or saying “woman” is sexist. Seriously, the thick people who scream racist just when I use the word brown should be locked up in a mental institute and put on a tube because they’re a waste of space to society.

    Now that I’ve cleared that up, let me address the other points.

  81. MaidMarian — on 16th June, 2008 at 3:46 pm  

    I fear that this is about to turn really ugly.

  82. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:02 pm  

    Sunny,Or “brown” person?

    You see when i address you from now on I will willfully acknowledge your self-declared membership to the “brown” people. And it will get very annoying for you no doubt :-)

    But seriously; it may be obvious to you and others that you are not a racist, but that is making an assumption which no writer deserves. You roped many different ethnic and disprate cultural groups as one under the umbrella “brown” people. Like as if they are a homogenous section of society who should all behave as one blob becuase of something as irrelevant as the colour of their skin.

    Its actually worse than the Muslims4Ken campaign from a community relations perspective, because at least they have a religion which acts as the common idntifier. Your “brown” people against 42 day detention really have nothing in common other than being classified as brown skinned.

    Pretend you were a white guy saying “brown people always vote for labour because they support immigration and give them handouts etc…”.

  83. Dan — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:02 pm  

    Ah, but Sunny, you may be brown, but are you light wheatish or dark wheatish? If the latter, then you should use “Fair and Lovely” cream or you will never get married.

  84. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:02 pm  

    Sunny

    The questions we’re all asking here are:

    1. Is Darth Vader a “brown person”?

    2. Should he be voting Tory?

  85. Jonathan M. Scott — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:10 pm  

    Sunny, you have hit the nail on the head with this article.

  86. Don — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:13 pm  

    OK, Sunny. Not racist, but seems to be very close to communalist to me. And very broad brush at that.

    And interesting to note how you would deal with those who disagree with you, should you ever gain power.

  87. Ken Stevens — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:16 pm  

    “..until every brown person in the country is locked up until proven innocent ..”

    If only!!

    (–Because G. Brown would then be incarcerated for a long time!)

    ;-)

  88. Ravi Naik — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:17 pm  

    ” But this is the problem when we accept classifications such as Sunny’s “brown” people. Why is okay for Sunny to make this distinction and attribute it to a skin tone in a politcial reference and not make the same distinction when doing business with people or socialising. Its like ordering “brown” people to join a different queue than the “white” people. It’s just as outrageous..”

    The fact you acknowledge a particular classification does not mean you advocate separate queues, water-fountains or segregation in school or politics.
    It is already outrageous that Sunny is advocating that people should should vote based on hysteria, fear and this simplistic and outdated classification model based on colours.

    I have to admit that I felt somewhat uncomfortable when my baby was classified as mixed Asian/White. I am somewhat puzzled as to what the government can derive from this. It tells nothing about his ethnic background, the languages he will speak, his religion, and yes, to what political party he will vote some day. But it feels like we are already defining his tribal/communal identity…

  89. Leon — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:17 pm  

    1. Is Darth Vader a “brown person”?

    2. Should he be voting Tory?

    1. Nah man he black innit!

    2. Well back in da bruv he wudda but naw with ur warmongering Labour mates he’d be proper Labour voting and ting….

  90. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:26 pm  

    The number of people who have been arrested under terrorism legislation – compared to the number of people who have been arrested overall – is small.

    In the last few years, only, “brown” people have been disproportionately represented among those arrested and convicted of very serious terrorist offences. That has been for a very simple reason. We are living in an era in which the number of white Irish people and mostly white animal “rights” activists involved in terrorist activities has declined, sharply: while the number of Muslims engaged in terrorism, who are often, but not always, brown, has increased. In addition to “brown” (and “white”) Muslim people, there have been a relatively small number of arrests connected to Tamil terrorism and Sikh terrorism. Also “brown” people.

    However, that will not necessarily always be the case. Until Islamist terrorists began to organise seriously in the United Kingdom, the most active purveyors of political violence were animal “rights” terrorists: who were usually, but not always, white.

    So, if the balance swung that way again, what would Sunny’s advice be? That because “brown” people are disproportionately represented in the medical professions, and “white” people are disproportionately represented among animal “rights” terrorists, that “brown” people should vote Labour, because “brown” people need to be protected from “white” terrorism?

    And what if the Good Friday Agreement broke down, and the IRA returned to terrorism? If I recall correctly, the last person in England to be murdered by the “white” IRA was a “brown” newsagent, who died in the Canary Wharf bombing.

  91. Ala — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:29 pm  

    I would never vote either Tory or New Labour anyway, Brown, pink or blue; civil liberties or no civil liberties.

  92. Mike Morris — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:35 pm  

    Ravi,

    “I have to admit that I felt somewhat uncomfortable when my baby was classified as mixed Asian/White. I am somewhat puzzled as to what the government can derive from this. It tells nothing about his ethnic background, the languages he will speak, his religion, and yes, to what political party he will vote some day. But it feels like we are already defining his tribal/communal identity…”

    I agree completely. Why does it matter to the state whether your baby is asian/white? Its crazy. And anyway, Asia is a big place with an incredible amount of different cultures. There is no meaningful information they receive by having a tick in the “asian” box. And the same can be said for white/black whatever…I refuse to answer those types of questions. They really have no right to retain such data.

    Its insulting without being in the least bit useful.

  93. Sunny — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:45 pm  

    Sunny – the article is on the hysterical side,

    Sure. Does it convey how angry I am with Labour right now over 42 days? I hope it does.

    PS, I wish the Libdems did more to talk about poverty, then at least I’d be back to supporting them more heavily.

  94. Desi Italiana — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:51 pm  

    Mike:

    “You are lucky in that you can be “white” people and “brown” people at the same time.”

    Nope, even in the midst of winter, I could never pass for ‘white’. Make no mistake, I am brown. It’s summer that is the problem, where I can no longer be classified as brown, but more than that.

    “So I guess, if we extrapolate from Sunny’s model, you are just as likely to be banged up on false terrorist charges during summer than other “brown” people.”

    In all honesty, when I returned to the US from Italy, I got interrogated for close to an hour by a Condoleeza look-alike, asking me if I had Arab friends, if I stayed with Arab friends, etc, while the white US citizens breezed right through passport control. Apparently, being born and raised in America doesn’t mean jackshit for those of a darker hue…

  95. jay — on 16th June, 2008 at 4:59 pm  

    This is such a stunt, i realise now the headline its quite reactionary. Log on to http://www.politicshome.com which is a website i use alot through out the day because of my job. And at 2pm in the “Green box” which shows news as it happens is Sunnys article headline.

  96. jay — on 16th June, 2008 at 5:00 pm  

    This is such a stunt, i realise now the headline its quite reactionary. Log on to http://www.politicshome.com which is a website i use alot through out the day because of my job. And at 12.46pm in the “Green box” which shows news as it happens is Sunnys article headline.

  97. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 5:05 pm  

    Sure. Does it convey how angry I am with Labour right now over 42 days? I hope it does.

    You’re unhappy with it, sure: but why?

    Because you think that the Government failed to make a case for the necessity of 42 days? Well, so do I.

    But that’s not what you’ve said here. Your anger appears to be connected with the fact that, in 2008, you think that a large number of people who are engaged in murderous acts of terrorism are “brown people”, who you need to defend.

    That’s why I’m asking: would you be urging “brown people” to vote Tory if the perpetrators of certain offences were disproportionately “white”, and the victims disproportionately “brown”.

    Don’t get me wrong. You might still think that (for example) if there was an active White Nationalist terrorist movement in this country, which was attempting to slaughter as many “brown” people as possible in the hope that they’d ignite a race war etc., that you’d still oppose 42 days, on pure civil libertarian grounds.

    But you wouldn’t say “brown people should vote Tory for this reason”.

    You wouldn’t be able to say “the government is intent on locking all brown people in the country up”.

    You’d probably – rightly – decry as hysterical, somebody who argued that “white” people should vote Tory because “white” people were disproportionately being arrested in connection with terrorist offences.

  98. Sunny — on 16th June, 2008 at 5:37 pm  

    That’s why I’m asking: would you be urging “brown people” to vote Tory if the perpetrators of certain offences were disproportionately “white”, and the victims disproportionately “brown”.

    No, you’re mischacterising my point.I’m saying anti-terrorism legislation, which has not been argued for effectively but pushed through to make political points at a time Labour wants to look hard, is more likely to disproportionately affect brown people.

    If they’re guilty then the police has already enough time to gather evidence against them. If they’re innocent, then you have a situation where you can be kept in prison for 6 weeks while the press write all sorts of rubbish about you, your life is ruined, and then you come out with it in tatters. And the govt doesn’t care and neither do those who want to appear hard on terrorism.

    if white people were being disproportionately hurt by some legislation…. for example the view that Europe will fuck them up, then I expect to vote in their self-interests.

    I’m not playing a zero sum game here, where protecting the rights of innocent brown people means I want to screw over white people. I don’t. Just to make it quite clear.

  99. David T — on 16th June, 2008 at 5:50 pm  

    is more likely to disproportionately affect brown people.

    In 2008, yes. But this would not have been so 10 years ago. The legislation would have disproportionately affected white people then. In 10 years time, it might disproportionately affect some other group.

    The legislation only disproportionately affects brown people, because Muslims are disproportionately brown. Notably, though, there have been a number of white converts arrested under terrorist legislation. The last two high profile arrests involves white people.

    In reality, though, “brown” people as a whole aren’t more likely to be arrested. The people who are more likely to be wrongly arrested are people who are on the very fringes of a terrorist millieu. The cousin of somebody who trained with Al Qaeda, and just happened to be there when the police kicked down the door, for example. They’re not going to be “brown people” generally.

    Put it this way, Sunny. You’re just as likely as I am to be killed by terrorists: because of what we say and do politically, and because we live in London. We’re equally unlikely to be detained for 42 days.

    The situation might be different were my best mate involved in animal rights terrorism, or if your best mate turned out to be engaged in pro-Khalistan terrorism. But, again, this has nothing to do with our skin colour.

    if white people were being disproportionately hurt by some legislation…. for example the view that Europe will fuck them up, then I expect to vote in their self-interests.

    So, there you have it. You’re not advocating voting Tory because of the principle of the matter. You’re calling for people to vote Tory because of your misperception of your own self-interest.

    You’re a man who, in the final analysis, sees the world as “brown” and “not brown”. Isn’t this precisely what you’ve spent the last five years arguing against?

    Seriously mate, have a think about this again.

  100. tim — on 16th June, 2008 at 5:56 pm  

    I’m still unclear Sunny what you mean about anti terror legislation affecting Sikhs and Hindus and Buddhists and Non White Christians.

    Could you please give an example of what you mean

  101. Kulvinder — on 16th June, 2008 at 6:04 pm  

    Completely out of curiosity, but do those of you who are dyed-in-the-wool supporters of the red team genuinely believe that you’re supporting a socialist party? I’m just trying to get a feel for the juxtaposition of New Labour vs Old Labour as it now stands.

  102. ORDOVICIUS — on 16th June, 2008 at 8:03 pm  

    given that New Labour wants to extend anti-terrorism legislation until every brown person in the country is locked up until proven innocent (or once the police can be bothered to let you out), it makes more sense for brown and black people, who will overwhelmingly face the brunt of this police-state legislation, to vote Conservative.

    Except in Wales, where they can vote Plaid Cymru, or Scotland, where they can vote SNP.

    Actually, they already do.

  103. Don — on 16th June, 2008 at 8:18 pm  

    New Labour vs Old Labour

    Um, horror, betrayal, loathing, betrayal, disgust, betrayal, and a deep sense of betrayal. That’s just fourth generation Labour. Feel betrayed.

    Doubt if there are any dyed in the wool red team who see Nu-Lab as a socialist party. A few still think it can be recovered. Wish I could.

  104. Desi Italiana — on 16th June, 2008 at 9:06 pm  

    How come everyone’s surprised at Sunny’s post? Have ya’ll forgotten the “Why I Have Still Have a Soft Spot for Musharraf” post?

  105. Ravi Naik — on 16th June, 2008 at 11:59 pm  

    “How come everyone’s surprised at Sunny’s post? Have ya’ll forgotten the “Why I Have Still Have a Soft Spot for Musharraf” post?”

    Heh. :) He wasn’t being sarcastic on that one either.

  106. Sid — on 17th June, 2008 at 12:16 am  

    I thought “Let’s Bomb Burma” was posted after 10 lines of coke and couple of shots of Southern Comfort. But apparently he was sober as a judge at the time.

  107. Sunny — on 17th June, 2008 at 12:31 am  

    How come everyone’s surprised at Sunny’s post? Have ya’ll forgotten the “Why I Have Still Have a Soft Spot for Musharraf” post?

    Desis – I eat children for breakfast, dontcha know?

    How’s that for your nuanced understanding of what I’m trying to say?

  108. Desi Italiana — on 17th June, 2008 at 6:45 am  

    Sunny:

    “Desis – I eat children for breakfast, dontcha know?”

    So you’re a communist now?

  109. Desi Italiana — on 17th June, 2008 at 6:46 am  

    Sunny:

    “How’s that for your nuanced understanding of what I’m trying to say?”

    But jaanam, the problem is that this post and the other brown politics one AREN’T nuanced.

  110. Chris Paul — on 17th June, 2008 at 10:50 am  

    Your link to further post is a circular one. Right back to itself.

  111. Bharat — on 17th June, 2008 at 12:48 pm  

    I liked your post

  112. Desi Italiana — on 17th June, 2008 at 1:09 pm  

    Potential brown voters in favor of the Tories should pay attention this post:

    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2062

  113. Will S — on 18th June, 2008 at 9:33 pm  

    It seems that there are an awful lot of people on this website who can’t take a pun….

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