The last gasp of liberty
If the government loses the vote today to extend pre-charge detention to 42 days, it’ll be sign that there at least a significant number of principled Labour MPs still elected.
If not, then I can only hope that a future Tory govt sees sense and reverses this. I can’t even be arsed to justify why 42 days is a bad idea. If you don’t think it is, then you’re just stupid. Like, I can’t even be arsed to come up with a suitable insult, that’s how depressed and annoyed I am with this Labour government. They don’t deserve to win in two years time.
In years time people will look back and think - bloody hell, they really were authoritarian in those days weren’t they?
Liberty have published this today showing how the govt and police officers exaggerated the circumstances around a previous case to bolster their own agenda.
I am shocked, angry and more than a little disappointed to find Ministers have repeatedly sexed up the operational pressures on the existing 28 day detention limit. Just last week in front of millions of television viewers, a senior Cabinet Minister told me that the full 28 days had been required for the gathering of evidence in three cases. Now I learn that wasn’t true. I hope that the similarities with the infamous Iraq vote will not be lost on Labour MPs tomorrow.
Update: This post by Justin on 42 days, The Price is Right, is gold dust.
Leon update: The government won the vote by 9 votes. Relying on the DUP to pull their asses out of the fire. This all feels very familiar; in the dying days of the John Major government didn’t he have to rely on the DUP to get anything done?
I know how you feel Sunny. I spent my younger days fighting for left wing causes and always thought Labour was nothing more than a moderate voice of the trade unions and working people. But atleast it was not right wing and anti-libertarian. Now I just don’t know the difference between them and the Tories.
Bush used 9/11 to undermine the basic freedoms of American people and Blair, like the faithful poodle, followed. Brown took over promising to return to conviction politics and do away with the politics of spin…but that is exactly what they are doing with the 42-day vote. I feel ashamed to have voted for Labour in every one of the last three elections.
I think that 42 days is too long. I think that 28 days is too long.
Sunny:
You are heading down a very slippery slope:
This is now your attitude for 42 days, the abortion debate, climate change and so on. If you believe something is right, then you should set out the reasons why, rather than insulting anyone who disagrees with you. A similar sentiment has emerged as the liberal consensus when talking about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. The fact that she got a similar number of delegates to him and won most of the big states is now ignored, and large numbers of people who voted for Clinton are just dismissed as ‘racists’, as the politeratti refuse to accept that not everyone worships their chosen candidate.
Yes indeed. but there is someone arguing that it is better to have a fixed period rather than a non-fixed period.
anyway Gordon will whip his party into line, that’s established tradition. what we should get rid of is that tradition, it should be seen as bribery and arm-twisting instead of customary practice
Actually, you would do well to justify why 42 days is outrageous, and not 28 days. How do we determine the right period of time to lock people up without charging them? Who is best qualified to answer that question?
This is now your attitude for 42 days, the abortion debate, climate change and so on. If you believe something is right, then you should set out the reasons why, rather than insulting anyone who disagrees with you.
Well, we did offer lots of reasons for the abortion debate. 24 reasons for 24 weeks infact!
There are has been a lot written about 42 days though, which is why I can’t be arsed to add to it. If someone taking politics seriously hasn’t read any good article on why 42 days is wrong, then they should take up gardening instead of political blogging. I’m not referring to you btw.
Not sure I agree with your characterisation. He finished ahead by 220 delegates - it is a huge margin, not a tie. If California and New York voted again a few weeks before Clinton conceded, Obama would have won confortably according to polls. And West Virginia and Kentucky did vote in mass against Obama because of racism - that is evident in exit polls - as in “is race a factor in your vote”. It is not a question of worshipping, Obama was the superior candidate by every measure - and in terms of management and strategy, Clinton finished her candidacy with the largest debt in presidential candidacy history: 30 million dollars.
hey I’ve been looking for a gardener.
Sunny, that’s a insult to gardeners…many of them would have a more sensible and caring attitude than the Labour lot
“I think that 42 days is too long. I think that 28 days is too long.”
Yes. There is no reason why anyone should not be charged as per normal, you can hold someone in prison if you feel you need to, they just have right to legal representation. Why is habeas corpus a threat to a State faced by terrorism? There is no reason, no REAL reason, to a State security, to suspend habeas corpus. the only reason is to take away the rights of individuals and give an incredible power to State apparatus.
I was under the impression that habeas corpus was *not* an issue here in the 42-day extension: the suspect would still know why he is behind bars, and he would be eventually put on trial or released if no evidence has been found.
I am not making a case in favour of the 42-day extension. I just don’t understand the outrage against the extension when you already accept putting people behind bars during 28-days. The question then becomes, how do you make a decision as to what is an acceptable time frame for the police to make a case against potential terrorists.
Sunny, are your posts only aimed at people who take politics and political blogging seriously? Not so clued up ones like me read this blog too.
PS: Am not good at gardening either
Leon
‘This all feels very familiar; in the dying days of the John Major government didn’t he have to rely on the DUP to get anything done?’
Good observation. I wonder if he promised to hold McGuinness for 42 days, just for a laugh.
A wee bit hysterical? Any sensible analysis demonstrates that almost every country in the West has more stringent measures and much of the argument against has been breathtakingly misleading - much of Europe for example has a Napoleonic system whereby suspects can be held for years without being formerly “charged”.
In any case, you have it both ways - you can wring your hands from the sidelines but still sleep safer in your bed.
BTW, your “stupid” insult reminds me how the Tories used to be called the Stupid Party by Gladstonian Liberals in the 19th Century, yet look what happened to them…
“this Labour government.”
The government, old boy, is “New Labour”, not “Labour”. Labour, with its socialist principles, is now dead.
Haaaaaaaa! it is mind blowing