It’s a Muslim no-go area!!
The story that two Christian evangelicals were stopped from preaching in Birmingham has had tons of bloggers literally creaming their pants. So much so that my article yesterday on CIF attracted about ten comments just posting it so they could derail the thread, or erm, say I must be pleased by it. What?
Melanie Phillips predictably called the story Britain’s slide into dhimmocracy. I’m assuming she didn’t use ‘dhimmitude’ because there were already 47372 posts titled that.
I know this is hard for the bloggers creaming their pants, but let’s work through the logic here. A ‘Muslim no-go’ area is presumably one where non-Muslims and the law fear to tread.
So how exactly is the police, by harassing some Christian evangelicals, creating a Muslim no-go area? Surely, by logic, they wouldn’t exist in an area where the police is active?
Or to put it another way, if the police is harassing some black or brown youths, is it creating a ‘white no-go area’?
The charge is more likely that the police is conspiring with Muslims to create these zones. That sounds remarkably similar to the xenophobic narrative of an earlier generation when Jews were being accused of conspiring to take over the world and spreading their influence everywhere.
West Midlands police idiocy over the Channel 4 documentary aside, there is absolutely no evidence at all that they are conspiring with Muslims to create ‘no go areas’.
In fact there is no evidence at all that ‘Muslim no-go areas’ exist, and it is a symptom of our lazy media that no one has pulled up Bishop Nazir Ali on it. Even the Guardian keeps repeating this rubbish.
“bloggers literally creaming their pants”
Arre yaar…it’s hard to pay attention to the intent of your post when it contains lines like the one above…
Man this muslim no-go area is such a crock of shit. You’d think these “intelligent” right-wing ideologues would use some bulletproof arguments against multiculturalism, and they exist. But instead they go for the most simplistic story which is riddled with inconsistencies. This is lowest common denominator, BNP shit. Fir those who ignore that white no-go areas are more common and more pervasive. Still, if this is the level of right-wing discourse now, I’m not complaining.
To be fair Sunny, the argument is that the police prevented christians from preaching their gospel in an area because it would offend muslims. This is clearly an assault on our belief in free speech.
I agree that sometimes certain aspects of the media get paranoid about Islam. However, you must admit that the conduct of the police was wrong.
“Christian evangelicals were stopped from preaching in Birmingham”
Why can the police not stop Jehovah’s witnesses and the Mormons? They too come preaching, esp. on Saturday mornings, when you just want to relax.
I am sorry if I am posting jesting comments, just trying to lighten the mood in a post that is already ludicrous on its own.
“Pickled-Politics”? More like “Pickled-Brains”. Don’t you really mean to describe a “Non-Muslim No-Go Area”?
Apparently one of the two evangelical dudes involved here is a convert from Islam to Christianity. Maybe it was this that got our Muslim police officer hot and bothered. You see…it’s all ok for Muslims to go around preaching and converting, but…
And Sunny, talking abvout the creamed pants of bloggers is just another version of you shooting the messenger. In this particular story, there is little to defend.
In this particular story, there is little to defend.
Who’s defending the story? I’m just pointing out the obvious – the story justifies nothing other than the view that some Police Community Support Officers are over zealous.
No Sunny, it also shows that a Muslim police officer, over zealous or not, can take it upon himself to overturn the basic freedom of speech in a British city. It is this sort of outrage that leads to generalisations like Muslim no-go areas.
Only a couple of weeks ago, Channel 4 won a libel action against West Midlands Police over a film about extremists at one of the mosques. The police had inexplicably put out a statement saying the story was wrong.
Here it is:
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=41178
Sorry i dont know how to create links. (Perhaps you could show me!!)
Some reports of this story indicate that the support officer acted to calm a heated argument between the evangelicals and a group of muslim youths….can’t find the link at the moment but will dig around. Obviously he “over-intervened” but has been disciplined since. I would like the full details of the story, and not just the sensationalist reports most of the media will carry. Ah well, just have to sit back and see how big this one becomes if I expect that to happen. Ho hum.
No Sunny, it also shows that a Muslim police officer, over zealous or not, can take it upon himself to overturn the basic freedom of speech in a British city.
Do you complain similarly when black youths are harassed by the police? What about when the police want to lock up people for 42 days without charge?
Or is your outrage only reserved for when white christian are harassed by the police?
Errmm can someone explain why they were stopped?
The fact they were stopped possibly indicates they were doing something wrong otherwise they can sue the Police.
How do you know they weren’t distributing offensive material?
How do you know they weren’t committing public order offenses?
The Police may have just asked them to move to avoid arrest and given them a warning.
What are the facts of the case?
The allegation of Melanie and right wing bloggers is that the Police with nothing better to do decided to harass Christian Missionaries? Doesn’t that sound just a bit far-fetched to everyone?
Has the Community Police Officer in question been given a chance to explain why they took the action.
Just because the officer is Muslim people are assuming it was done for religious reasons.
It is like the crock of shite story the right wing press ran about a bus driver making passengers get off a bus so he could pray. That was lies – turns out the driver was past his legal shift told to stop driving and did so. Then started to pray. He stopped the bus because legally he couldn’t drive anymore and not because it was prayer time, but the good old right wing press twisted facts and fabricated a story.
Smells like the same here.
This sounds as authentic as The Policy Exchange Report – Just check the receipts!
“Do you complain similarly when black youths are harassed by the police? What about when the police want to lock up people for 42 days without charge?
Or is your outrage only reserved for when white christian are harassed by the police?”
Even if that is true, does it make what happened to these preachers right?
Besides I think they are different issues. Black youths and muslims are harassed/jailed by the authorities either because they are stereotypes/suspicions about them being criminals or terrorists. I doubt anyone thought the preachers were doing anything criminal. The only motivation here was to placate the religious senisibilites of one group.
You are right in that the issue is overblown with phrases like no-go area, but denying that this was a serious error only allows the right to attract more people.
Black youths and muslims are harassed/jailed by the authorities either because they are stereotypes/suspicions about them being criminals or terrorists.
Let me go through this thought process. The police harass black / brown people because of sterotypes. So its ok. Because Christian missionaries don’t fit the stereotype, we should all make a big hoo-haa when it happens to them?
I love my blog – its pure comedy material.
“I doubt anyone thought the preachers were doing anything criminal. The only motivation here was to placate the religious senisibilites of one group.”
How do you know? The general assumption you are making is that the Christians were right and the Muslims were wrong so you are stereotyping to fit your norm.
How do you know they were not causing offense or public order offenses and the Police asked them to stop and move on?
Why have the Missionaries complained via the press and not to the Police Complaints Authority? Interesting huh?
If they were legally correct why spin it via the papers and papers with an agenda close to theirs?
Many Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Hindus get regular calls from Jehovah’s Witnesses and other Christian Evangelicals but most ignore them so why was this different?
“Let me go through this thought process. The police harass black / brown people because of sterotypes. So its ok. Because Christian missionaries don’t fit the stereotype, we should all make a big hoo-haa when it happens to them?
I love my blog – its pure comedy material.”
Glad you are amused : ). Are you seriously saying that harassment of black youths or the 42 day detention does not get attention in the media? I for one see plenty of articles on it.
And at least in the case of the 42 day detention there is at least a defensible position of the terrorist threat (one that I don’t agree with albeit). In this specific case the only arguement is that preaching christianity in a muslim area is hate crime, which sounds ridiculous.
Are you seriously saying that harassment of black youths or the 42 day detention does not get attention in the media? I for one see plenty of articles on it.
The question isn’t whether it gets media coverage or not… and even then thats only in the left wing media.
The question is – is it right? and if its wrong, then should it be allowed to happen or not? You’re saying because its ok the polive harasses black/brown force because thats just stereotype anyway.
Well, perhaps, more dim-attitude than dhimmitude.
Well, for once, I’m gonna be controversial and agree with old girl Melanie Phillips. Assuming that it’s true that the Muslim policeman was telling the proselytizers to bugger off.
Desi @ 4
Jehovahs are worse than the Muslims.
Well, Gordon for me, has a point, if this is to be believed:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/terrorists-can-hold-their-breath-for-41-days%2c-claims-brown-20080603994/
Otherwise, no.
There is nothing wrong with Jehovah’s Witnesses. In the past when they visited we would have a good old barney about how the world was doomed. Doomed.
Now they come to the door and note that everyone is busy so they won’t stop, but could they leave a copy of their publication. This week it was ‘Steps to Christ – How to know him better’.
I have noticed there have been more visits in the last 3 months than the last seven years combined.
Never a copper when you (might) need one.
What’s going on?
When Christian Voice protested against that appalling Jerry Springer the Musical, they had only one line. ‘The BBC would not have done this if it was about muslims’ – and yet we would have been hard-pushed to find a muslim who would have supported the show. Quite the opposite.
That point was being made by an asian looking cleric who seemed very strident – he seemed to be pushing the anti-muslim line as much as he was his opposition to the proposed transmission. Was that the bishop?
“The question is – is it right? and if its wrong, then should it be allowed to happen or not? You’re saying because its ok the polive harasses black/brown force because thats just stereotype anyway.”
Not really, obviously stereotyping by race is wrong. The main point of my post is that you can’t bludgeon one wrong with another. The difference with allegations of sterotyping by race is that its pretty ambigious whether that was even the reason for suspicion (seems everybody is screaming racism these days at the drop of hat). In this case, however, its pretty clear cut what happened and its important to recognize it without the extreme language of the right.
Sorry, have I missed something, but isn’t this about IDEAS rather than RACE? Does anyone know what colour the Christians were? Does anyone care?
Surely the point is not to make misleading parallels with race but to focus on these people being moved on because of their beliefs.
This is why it is a concern. Playing the race card is a red herring.
My flat is a no-go area for Melanie Phillips. If she tries to get in she’ll get a frying pan in her face.
So are you trying to say no one is trying to create no-go areas for Muslims? Come on! Muslims are trying to create no-go areas for Muslims. Why was this community support officer not fired? He’s a prat, and clearly allowed his own (Muslim) views to colour his judgement as what is supposed to be a neutral arbiter (a police employee) of whether an act is a breach of the peace or whatever.
I get sick and tired of hearing these bleating religionists who think their medieval religion is the dog’s bollocks, and we should all bow in deference to it. If I’m wrong in making that assertion, why are there so many stories about their demands for this and that and the other? They’re not all in rags like the Daily Mail.
As the Muslim population grows, as it is doing, chillingly quickly, this hideous religion will be making demands right, left and centre (more than it is doing already), and of course, while there are votes in it and politicians who fear for their electoral arses, they’ll be appeased and appeased and appeased.
We’ve seen the suspicious circumstances in which West Midlands Police tried to prosecute Channel 4 over Undercover Mosque, which you mention (and had to make a grovelling apology over, I’m delighted to say). The words thin, end and wedge come to mind.
(Oh, BTW, it’s highly unlikely that bloggers will be “literally creaming their pants” (my emphasis) unless they are literally creaming their pants. Every time a word takes on another meaning, it has less meaning.)
Careful Andy A, you might have the Muslim enforcement police knocking on your door. There may be some obscure law that prevents someone from describing it as a medieval religion. Look where it got Salman Rushdie!
Sorry about our ever-increasing numbers, Andy. It’s probably due to this exotic, old fashioned practice we indulge in. It’s called getting married, staying married and having kids.
Playing the race card is a red herring.
But that is what this blog and Sunny’s career is all about!
TFI
Andy A
“So are you trying to say no one is trying to create no-go areas for Muslims? Come on! Muslims are trying to create no-go areas for Muslims”
not doing very well are they? BTW.. where?
Sunny.
I absolutely agree with everything you said in the Guardian piece, and here, but slightly perturbed that in the comments you seem to be drawing a link between 42-day detention and what happened to these guys. Whatever you think about the Government’s detention proposals, nobody is going to be locked up for simply suggesting people become Muslim. I have absolutely no problem with the Islamic guys at the top of Market Street in Manchester most weekends, handing out leaflets to all and sundry, for example.
Likewise, Muslims in Birmingham should have no problem with evangelical Christians trying to talk them round to their way of thinking. It’s a free speech thing.
That is, of course, assuming their take on it in the Telegraph is accurate. If it is accurate, then they’ve done nothing wrong and have been harrassed by a moron. I accept there may well be people locked up under new detention laws who have ‘done nothing wrong’ but I’m not cynical enough to believe that the police will intentionally set out to do that.
All the best