What I said was that the Arab coutries that have had the *most* contact with Southasians have implemented institutional racism towards Southasians and Africans. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the Gulf States are by far the worst offenders and the worst examples of violent and sexual oppression of migrant workers occur there. And I agree with you that little or no such problems exist in North African and Maghrebi Arab countries.

The situation is exacerbated by the fact that Southasian countries are always on the backfoot to these rich Arab states because they need the foreign exchange that the migrant workers are generating. So they are loathe to create difficulties such as establishing checks on human rights violations.

But what is it about Muslim Southasians which regards Saudis and Kuwaitis as the greatest Muslims since post-Prophetic Muslims? Any clues?

There have also been independent films made about the treatment asian maids (I saw a strong film ‘maid in lebanon’ a recent festival film).

I think you’ll find that Gulf States also treat arabs from poorer countries badly though perhaps not as harshly as migrant workers. Even professional Arabs working in the gulf will earn less than westerners – including Asians with British passports.

So yes Its appalling that more isn’t done to protect the rights of migrant workers in the Arab world, that more Gulf Arabs don’t even know about it but as someone said earlier there are other issues, migration, racism and economic power, its not just an inherently cultural Arab thing.

As a southasian I lived in worked in North Africa and didn’t have any problems with the Arabs I met in Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan, however the way say Jordanians treated newly impoverished Iraqis or Egypt’s treatment of Sudanese refugees was shocking. I was made aware of this by Arab activists and made me realise that there are other factors at play. They’re also the ones who spoke most angrily at the treatment of Asian workers in the Gulf and Saudi Arabia, but again they have limited power beyond organising demonstrations and raising awareness.

So please don’t fall into the ‘all arabs’ mistake because its unfair and you guys are better than that.

Now please don’t hurt me

I agree with Sammy’s point re: Quilliam taking us all for a ride: Many of the reborn modernists who have seen the light and are against ‘Islamists’ (whatever that means) are inspired by MONEY AND FAME far beyond any sincere discourse for the betterment of society as with the case of Mr Butt ( refer to Sammy’s link)

Take Ed, grand claims of membership in HT to promote his book and then countless sources have highlighted he was never in the inner circle of HT (as a member)but a mere wannabee who lived out a fantasy to promote his book, same delusioned world as Mr. Butt.

Then there’s Mr. Nawaz..time in prison, comes out, goes back to the organisation he claims he came to distrust and disagree with whilst in prison, then what were you doing at their events for a year..the answer..waiting for the right amount of money to be offered or maybe Mr Nawaz thought, had he come out of prison and decided to leave HT, many may brand him a coward so played the waiting game, either way hardly sincere…

Another in the ‘fame & fortune game’: Mr Rashad Ali claims his deep study made him see the light, I have heard on many blogs and some individuals have mentioned that, Mr Rashad was engaged in illegal activity and consequently suspeneded or expelled from HT..overtime resentment grew inside Mr Rashad and money came to take all that away…suddenly he became a scholarly figure researching, ummm age old arguments which a modern sense of vigor, hardly sincere discourse…guess money does that…..

Sammy you hit the nail onthe head!!!

I think all issues should be discussed to find the truth but with these people who happened to come out as Money is increasingly being made available to deflect the goverments denial that Iraq and Afghanistan have made the world a more dangerous place and a breeding ground for violence…then sincerity is lost as the truth is also lost…

Why has my previous post (a response to Sammy’s point) re: Quilliam folks taking all for a ride been removed……?????????

It was on your site last night….

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1184614595/bctid1578617152

Firstly my apologies if someone has addressed this point earlier, but with so many posts, I was not going to read them all..

On the point of Arabised: The Author obviously fails to understand why Muslims use the words he cited as examples, their meaning and use is linked to the traditions of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings be upon him) and have nothing to do with the fact Arabs use them. There are other words that many ‘southasian’Muslims use for the same reason.

Over the past 15 years, there has emerged a greater awareness of the Muslim identity, which has led many Muslim to turn to their faith with greater vigor, they naturally began to study core subjects including Arabic language, which with any language is best developed through practice, coupled with study of the traditions of the prophet (may the peace and blessings be upon) him)means, they incorporate this into their daily vocabulary, this is as the author rightly points out, lingua sacra..(I wonder if the author is Italian or becoming Italianised {sic})…

Generally speaking, those described as Arabised, are those practicing their religion and not every ‘southasian’which goes along way to explaining this behaviour..

The argument of superiority and inferiority plays no part in my opinion and if it does, we are grasping to experience’s of a very few..

Finally, why we talking about Ed the duck? The Arabised
Nawaz (the author may have a case there) and their band of merry men, if the home office party had anything to do with it…….

http://ecumene.org/IIS/csss05.htm

Ugh– I hate this kind of thinking. I’ve come across this strand of logic from sub-continentals (not often, but every once in a while). Religion does not transcend various other factors (regions, socio-economic status, politics, etc). To divorce religion from culture is rather stupid, I think. And I don’t understand why people get so upset with the immense diversity present in how religion is practiced. There is absolutely nothing wrong with regional products of a religion that is shared across borders.

I also think allegations of Sid being racist are specious arguments. Various human rights violations have been documented (and I myself have written about them). Sid tying in racism that Southasians face in countries which seem to hold sway over well-greased political ideologies propagated on a global scale, and SOME (not all– a tiny minority) Desis thinking that religion can somehow nullify socio-cultural differences and looking towards Islamic scholars and actors who are based in Arab nations as the “true” heirs to Islam which should be the models to emulate to get rid of the “cultural baggage” emanating from Southasia (read: Hindu and non-Islamic religions, though if these believers were smart enough, they’d see that the “non-Islamic” and “Islamic” are very hard to separate, given the interweaving of all of these various religions in the subcontinent) is not being racist. It’s an irony that I think should be highlighted, but NOT be the defining way of framing the discussion of Southasian migrants in the Gulf countries, and other Arab nations (see below).

The only objection I have to the whole framing of the issue is that it’s not only Desis who identify themselves as Muslims that get treated like shit in the Gulf States. Sri Lankan women get abused in Lebanon– and not all of them are affiliated as Muslims. Likewise, in Qatar, Nepali migrant workers are exploited as hell, and they are overwhelmingly Hindu. So rather than framing the issue within the terms of religion, it is better to look at other factors (global economy, migration, racism, Southasia as a region in the place and context of global political economy).

I do, however, appreciate Sid’s use of “South Asia” as one word– Southasian. You go, boy

I told you that the points you raised in #39 was worthy of debate.

But you now go on to say that I support or excuse it.

You don’t actually know what I think of that do you?

But because I did not go down yet another dark alley with you does not let you off the hook.

You are using examples of repulsive behaviour as an excuse for your own regressive attitudes.

Yes if you want a ‘British’ Islam, it ain’t coming from that foundation.

The QF angle was not to conflate British Islam with the Quilliam Foundation, though I now see that this might have been a cause for misunderstanding for some. But that they (the Quilliam Foundation), now thay they are free of their Arab paymasters who have skee-daddled, should develop their remit in the direction of developing a religious and legal consensus amongst Southasian British Muslims which is vernacular in nature and free of this misguided deference to Saudi religious authority.

Not too sure about the Quilliam foundation though.

…

Women employed as domestic helpers are particularly vulnerable to forced labor, as well as physical and sexual abuse, and all women are subject to additional restrictions forbidding driving, access to certain public places, and “immoral behavior,” including walking alone, not wearing a head scarf, or being in the company of a man who is not a relative. Punishments for the latter include imprisonment and flogging.

These restrictions foster other abuses, because they give employers leverage to force foreign workers to accept wages and working conditions other than those specified in their contracts. Workers regularly report that their employers failed to honor contracts signed in their home countries, including failing to pay wages for months at a time, placing them in lower paid and lower skilled jobs, requiring them to work longer hours than specified, and reneging on promised housing, repatriation, vacation leave, and other benefits. Even contracts that are honored typically contain provisions that can be easily abused, including requirements that workers pay their own travel costs if they are dismissed for incompetence, accept any other work assigned by the employer, refrain from engaging in any outside work, be available to work any additional hours required by the employer, and not be or become pregnant.

JEDDAH, 26 October 2007 — A 37-year-old Filipino beautician is being treated at a hospital in Jeddah for serious injuries she suffered after falling from a building while trying to escape alleged maltreatment from her employer.

Officials at the Philippine Consulate General in Jeddah yesterday said Myrna Salvador was admitted to Dr. Baksh Hospital in the Mina district of the city after suffering a fractured spine and hip. She was brought to the hospital on Wednesday afternoon by her employer’s driver and another worker.

Salvador, a single mother, left her two young children with relatives in the northern Philippine province of Bulacan when she was recruited by Samba Services agency to work at a beauty parlor owned by her employer, Malika Al-Otaibi, in Jeddah for a salary of SR1,500 a month.

On arrival in Jeddah last Sunday, Al-Otaibi reportedly told her at first “in a nice way” to work as a maid for the family for a SR750 monthly salary.

Salvador said she was brought to her employer’s Al-Nahda Dress Shop in the Mahjar district where she was asked to sign a new contract stating she would work as a maid. When she pointed out that she was hired as a beautician as stated by her contract that was authenticated by the Saudi Embassy in Manila and the Philippine Overseas Employment Office (POEA), the employer reportedly became angry and beat her up in front of her children and other workers at the dress shop.

“She slapped me and beat me up with a ladle. Even her daughters were crying ‘miskeena, miskeena’ but she refused to stop,” Salvador recounted from her hospital bed.

Al-Otaibi then reportedly ordered Salvador be locked up in a room, without any food. However, on Wednesday, she managed to climb out of a hole and attempted to climb down but slipped and fell, fracturing her spine.

Despite Salvador’s condition, Al-Otaibi, who was at the shop at the time, told her driver to take Salvador to a police station and have her deported. “Fortunately, her husband took pity and insisted that I be brought to a hospital instead,” Salvador told Arab News.

Contacted by Arab News on her cell phone yesterday, Al-Otaibi at first denied knowing Salvador. But when told that Salvador broke her back while escaping from their villa, Al-Otaibi said: “She is just a woman who came and ran away.”

She said Salvador came all the way from the Philippines with the intention to escape, encouraged by her mother who works in Jeddah.

“She broke the metal bars on the window and threw herself off from the roof,” she said, denying that she physically abused Salvador. “She got hurt because she jumped from the window.”

Asked if it was true that she tried to force her beautician employee to work in her house as a maid, Al-Otaibi angrily replied: “Stop asking me about her, whoever wants to commit suicide is free to do so. I have workers working for me for more than 20 years. Nothing like this has happened before,” she said before hanging up.

Less than 10 minutes later, she telephoned Arab News and threatened that if any of her comments were to be published then she would see to it that the newspaper is closed down.

In a heavy Moroccan accent, before abruptly hanging the phone, she screamed: “I’ll show you what Moroccans can do.”

Because the minute I turn the topic to Arabs per se, you will want to use the race card to turn it to “different schools of thought”.

You argue in bad faith. You apply one rule to yourself and another for others. You haven’t been able to back up your accusation of racism and yet you apologise for Arab racism by refusing to acknowledge that it even exists towards Southasians and Africans. Nice.

Not quite the minute you posted, but after the interview on Newsnight.

They blew it.

And therein lies his problem.

Let him talk about different schools of thought, and not Arabs per se.