“Antiracists had to defend democracy against the will of the majority.”

So democracy has become now, the will of something other has it?

Just to let you know. I did feel somewhat offended by the original post to which I responded. This seemed to imply that Sikh builders were ‘taking all da jobs’ of the indigenous honkies around the borders of East London. As someone who is closely associated with such people I just had to respond to this ‘load of bollocks’.

I know a growing section of disgruntled Anglo-Saxons are playing the blame game for all their problems. I just had to put my two cents worth before the twats followed Hitler’s example (i.e. blaming Jews for all their woes).

I know the building trade reasonably well and know that there HAS been noise about the lack of skilled trades for some time now. I also work in education and see what piss poor standards of training are given to would be trades people these days.

If you exerted your intellect a bit and read between the lines, you may have grasped that what I was actually alluding to was:

(1) The blame game played by crafty honkies who need to be more enterprising and whine a lot less.

(2) The poor state of training for trades which is inexcusable seeing as so many youths seem to be available for the work.

(3) The total disregard shown towards working class white youth by Britain’s ruling class.

(4) The culture of “wasterism” that seems to be taking a strong hold of working class indig youth.

PS – Yes I am very proud of the hardwork ethic of my community. I do believe the white whinge brigade could learn a lot from it.

PSS – I am not a puffed up bigot but I have seen where such bullshit arguments ultimately lead.

I hope this is simple enough for you to understand.

On reading your latest post I just had to drop you a quick line.

I couldn’y help but pondering if there any basis, other than bigotry, for your assertions? For example, I wonder if there is information that records levels of unemployment compared to ethnicity? Or perhaps some other objective source.

Also I was struck, in this view of yours that entire groups of people are more hardworking than other groups. I would guess that this based also on your own (one eyed) observations, as unfortunately my own observations and life experiences don’t accord with yours. Funnily enough, as we can see in this very thread, for every hard working asian businessman we have – we’re also saddled with a small minded internet bore.

A final point, unfortunately, various UK governments chose to invest in the tertiary sector and therefore as a result levels of skilled tradesmen have fallen.

Furthermore, round my way, I hadn’t noticed that the various wasters were of one particular shade. Strange that you had. I wonder why? If I didn’t know any better I would think you were a puffed up bigot.

You take care of yourself.

Yours sincerely

The Informer

I still maintain that Asian builders (who I guess would be mostly Sikh), generally have a separate client base to their indig British counterparts. How they could be responsible for bringing prices down for white working class builders is something I can’t fathom.

One trade in with they seem to excel over most other ethnic groups is in carpentry. This is because many were highly skilled in this trade before they came here. If they have a strong representation on site in this area I wouldn’t be surprised. It is because they are generally better skilled than the competition and more harworking.

Also, are you aware of the fact that UK has been pissing its pant about the lack of skilled tradesmen for AT LEAST 15 YEARS. So, in all this time they have failed to actually get those indig chavs trained up to do the work and are forced to rely on foreign labour. I would say that the real problem lies with the indig attitudes to graft and this societies failure to make the most of its youth (who are now busy joyriding, binge drinking and whatnot).

well said.

The ‘no platform for Nazis’ is, as Sunny as stated rightly, a policy adopted by the NUS and other trade unions. This does not mean there is no debate outside, as is the case of the Birmingham Professor as well as the BBC. The policy is designed not to stifle debate, on the contrary it is there to protect a safe environment where debate is possible for all. You can’t debate with people who wouldn’t think twice to physically stab you in the back. It’s there to protect those students who would be most risk if Nazis, given respectable platforms, took it further and tried to organise on campus. This has not happened in any University and college across the UK. In France though, Le Pen’s fascists, taking advantage of the respectable platforms they were given, have been able to build extensive student organisations and in some cases even take control of student unions.

There is no doubt Griffin is trying to follow the French model, by appearing respectable and keeping his thugs at bay he trying to play the ‘I’m legit card’. At one point in the 1930s, Hitler did the same when some ‘debates’ took place with communists, but most often resulted in fist fights. Nazis crave for respectability and publicity and once they have taken advantage they will shut down debate and democracy for all of us. Democracy should have limits surely or we’d all be giving platforms to rapists and serial killers just to ‘even things out’.

Adolf Hitler once said: ”Only one thing could have broken our movement – if the adversary had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed, with the most extreme brutality, the nucleus of our new movement.’

Many people are pissed off with the established parties, but that doesn’t mean they’ll run off to the BNP as a protest. If that was the case, the BNP would have got a lot more support than they got recently.

Watch Sophie Scholl, Schindler’s List or The Pianist and then decide whether Nazis should be given respectable platforms in our public universities to debate on whether the holocust ever happened.

erm..no. what he means is that as British people get pushed out of an area the ones remaining will be too few to get a British Nationalist elected. It’s called ethnic cleansing, and you agree with it.

Comments of Sociology professor John Holmwood indicate it was an interesting debate. Why shut it down? Only people with something to fear should fear intellectual debate.

I am not sure of what you mean by where did I get my information from CREs being closed down and my comments about Lee Jasper and Operation Black Vote. I think anyone who has read the London Evening Standard over the last four or five months will know where much of the information came from.

Interestingly the BNP site this morning reproduces an article from yesterdays Standard which reports three more arrests in the Clapham based Green Badge Taxi School scam. It seems the three concerned had the six oclock knock and are now helping Inspector Plod with his enquiries. Have a look it is very interesting because one of the things they have been arrested for is money laundering. This might tie in with the rumours about some of the missing millions being used to finance the importation of Columbian marching powder.

About CREs, well the ones that I came across were staffed by do nothing jobsworths. The ones in Tower Hamlets and Hackney were shut down and nobody noticed, mind you nobody noticed when they were there! A racial wind of change is blowing across the country bob and I suspect that it is going to freeze the extremities of quite a few people including yourself.

About the building trade. From 1974, when I was sacked and black listed for trying to unionise a site in Poplar east London, until very recently I worked for myself. My contracts were always with private clients either converting house or on small commercial contracts.

At the time of the last recession in the early nineties I was paying labourers fifty quid a day in the hand. That is still the going rate. Some skilled trades such as bricklaying can now get as much as one fourty a day before deductions but in the late eighties on a few sites on the Isle of Dogs it actually hit a hundred.

Although we have gone through an economic boom over the last few years fuelled by cheap credit, wages, particularly in the private sector, have not simply not reflected that boom.

In terms of competition in the private sector Asian builders have always produced lower estimates than English and there are many reasons for this. But is without doubt the Eastern Europeans and particularly the Poles who have held prices down. They arrived with saleable skills and what they didn’t know they soon learned. The one thing they have not been able to break into is high quality face brickwork which remains the preserve of the English ,Irish and Scots.

A friend of mine who was an asphalter for fourty years has packed up because he can’t make it pay. I am still in touch with the Sikh builders merchant I bought off for years and he tells me that Asian builders are complaining about the Poles undercutting!

On the revolt in the BNP, it is early days yet. I heard about the challenge a couple of weeks ago. It is very largely personal and about alleged financial irregularities. The last one petered out and was mainly confined to the north and midlands. Of the sixty seven expulsions and resignations there were non in London and only three in the east and south east.

If you won’t debate and confront such ideas then what is stop them mushrooming.

Please don’t make the situation sound worse than it actually is in this country. Maybe these ideas mushroom in your head Avi but I don’t want to know about them, thank you very much.

The danger is when extremes become viewed as the norm. Not confronting such ideals means that the public do think they are normal.

This is what happened in Nazi Germany, the extreme became the norm and like pack animals the public went along with it.

Exactly. That’s what happened in Germany and Italy in the last century. History has a way of repeating itself especially when times are hard. Desperate people resort to desperate measures. When a convincing dictator has a respectable platform you can bet he will be overjoyed at the prospect of spreading his twisted ideology to the masses.

I have no problem with people being filmed or questioned about their beliefs, which is not a bad thing at all, but why should you give them a respectable platform as though they are somehow worthy of it? Why unnecessarily give oxygen to extremist groups? That’s exactly what they thrive on. They love to play on the language of fear, intimidation and victimhood.

I think the NP strategy for the far right has largely been successful in this country over the last few decades. I think we should be happy we live in a reasonably peaceful multicultural society, which wasn’t the case in the sixties and seventies. When times are hard, like they are at the moment, and there is a lot of resentment toward government policies some people inevitably vote for the parties such as the BNP. This a failure of government rather than a failure to give them a respectable platform. Deal with the real issues like immigration, housing, education and health care – tangible things that improve people’s lives. Nutters shouldn’t be allowed to preach hatred.

However what is worrying is the almost complete acceptance of rigth wing Christian movements and their end of time theories who are a greater threat than HuT and BNP as thye have the ears of those in power and yet they aren’t even listed when such discussions occur.

It’s clear where your sympathises lie. Why absolve BNP and HuT as though they are lesser threats? There’s a strand of fascist ideology that runs through all of them.

Dialogue is much more important that posturing. Crucially at this time. There are loads of people who think a war with Islam is coming. they want it. Glen Jenvey posted a video of Izzadeen shouting bollocks at a protest, the comments are going haywire.

There are not many of us taking them on and my comments are getting burried. Its a laugh though.

While we are not fighting each other we should talk to each other. No platform is ridiculous crap from tired old lefties. Its an outmoded concept.

Look at the views on Harry’s Place and how they mushroom.

What good does not talking to people achieve? You simply end up with Harry’s Place if you ignore them.

The danger is when extremes become viewed as the norm. Not confronting such ideals means that the public do think they are normal.

This is what happened in Nazi Germany, the extreme became the norm and like pack animals the public went along with it.

It like most Americans and muppets at Harry’s Sauce Place still think there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!

Even Bushy has said today the intelligance was flawed but people won’t accept that. In fact I bet they are over there saying their idol is just plain wrong! Wrong again they haven’t even mentioned it. So that goes to show that when you lie to the people they eventually believe the lie so much they won’t even accept it when you say it ain’t so.

Some points very well made.

The whole race relations industry, tripping over themselves to find racist incidents, with the constant low-level insinuation that white people are attacking black people can only fuel anger and racial tensions at some level.

Recently in Lambeth I remember there being a big drive to find racist incidents. Big posters at bus stops, saying “Have you been the victim of a racist incident? Have you felt racially discriminated against at all? Call this number!”. Its certainly an industry that really is seeking to justify itself. There’s jobs and money at stake!

I got mugged a few years ago, my phone was stolen. The first question was “Where did this happen?”, the second question was “Do you think this was a racist incident?”. Like what?! I said I had been mugged, my phone stolen! Why was it so pertinent to as that question?! The guy was a different race, but as I’m sure the vast majority of us wouldn’t hesitate to mention if we were racially abused. Especially in Lambeth. It’s not like one black family in a large white village. It was just silly.

Would you prefer the Sikhs to be more like Muslims, sitting at home on benefits or self-detonating on tube trains?

Get some perspective you prick.

I thought platform (shoes) were negroid and haram respectively?

…I’ll get my coat.

The fact that there was no such scheme hasn’t stopped white people who can’t afford a home believing it. This is an example of the BNP telling a downright lie. What they also do is to take a real concern over, for example, building industry wages. These have always been linked to the economy and the supply of labour in a way that does not apply in other industries.

Two ethnic groups in outer east London have had an effect on wage levels. One are Indians, usually Sikhs, and the other is the Poles. Wage levels, particularly in certain trades are the same as they were fifteen years ago. White people have a high proportion of self employed builders who have been directly affected by this competition.
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I’m not too sure about this. From my experiences as someone who has pretty much grown up and continues to be surrounded these “Sikh builders”, it seems the majority of their clients are non English in most cases (some exceptions do exist). You have to differentiate between “site” work and “private” work here also.

The last time I worked on a site in Central London, the vast bulk of the labour was foreign including large amounts of Eastern Europeans.

from a non English perspective: Although I would be inclined to agree with your point about competition in traditional site work but for the people whose client base mainly consists of relatively smaller residential work, I would say that the people who are employing are often reluctant to hire indig. tradesmen for a variety of reasons. So I don’t think Sikh builders have really made significant inroads into the indigenous builders client base as is being suggested. The two often seem to live in separate dimensions so to speak. Their pricing is sometimes (not always) different to reflect the norms of their respective client bases.

In my opinion this type of talk stems from jealousy and purely racist thinking in relation to skin colour. I notice that disgruntled elements of the British population are not complaining about the MASSIVE amounts of Irishmen (1st and 2nd generation) who proliferate London’s building industry.