Jimmy Carter has balls
He’s meeting Hamas. I think its an important move and a necessary one if we want a breakthrough in Middle East peace:
Carter said the two Hamas officials indicated that they would accept a peace agreement with Israel if the plan were approved through “a referendum of the Palestinian community.”
“It’s my dream and my hope that someday in my lifetime, hopefully this year, we’ll see a major breakthrough,” said Carter, who met with al-Zahar and Seyam after talks with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
Hamas may be a terrorist group but they’re also a legitimately elected government. Sooner or later Europe has to recognise that.
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Filed in: Current affairs, Middle East
i dont understand how jimmy carter is so amazing sometimes.
http://www.socialenterprisemag.co.uk/sem/news/detail/index.asp?id=396
He is a vain buffoon.
How describing Israel as “apartheid” is helpful eludes me I’m afraid.
on one hand, i think he was one of the most weak, vacillating and naive presidents the US have ever had, responsible more than anyone else for turning the perception of the americans around the world from admiration to contempt. as for his decision to plump so firmly for the palestinian narrative in such a one-sided and tendentious fashion, it beggars belief and removes any possibility for him to act as an honest broker in the future, which is a terrible shame because he is one of the few who might have managed it.
on the other hand, camp david. and that outweighs all. for that alone the israelis should be eternally thankful to him and try and understand him rather than distancing themselves as they now feel they have to.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Ironically its probably what has followed from Camp David that has made Carter realise where the real problem lies. Only one side gained.
It may well be that if had hindsight he may handled Camp David very differently.
With time its clear, Oslo too ended up with the same side gaining.
Its a strange world we live in where someone speaking out for justice for the oppressed and huddled masses is considered to have ‘balls’.
oh refresh, what bollocks. egypt got the sinai back (including the only oil israel has ever had), both sides gained. it proved that “land for peace” can, with a certain amount of goodwill, be a formula that works. unfortunately, hamas has been conceded the gaza strip and shows no signs of having learned anything from egypt. in fact, come to think of it, how come you let the egyptians off the hook for any responsibility for gaza? no, no, as usual it’s all the israelis’ fault.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Bananabrain
‘unfortunately, hamas has been conceded the gaza strip and shows no signs of having learned anything from egypt’
My goodness, now that is some spin.
But on a more serious note, I am interested in why Carter would be saying what he is saying. I shall have to get the book.
The peanut farmer from Georgia did all this ?? …
responsible more than anyone else for turning the perception of the americans around the world from admiration to contempt
Banabrain – I did not think you were walking on the same road as the Ayatollahs!
I hope he will be remembered as a ‘humane’ man: and that is the highest and best memory a US President can hope for, – bearing in mind all the mad lobbyists around any President that surround baying for other peoples’ blood. To show restrain takes real courage, as to lash out just digs deeper holes.
justforfun
Jimmy Carter was the last great Presidents in a long line of great presidents the USA have been lucky to have.
oh for goodness’ sake, i don’t know why i bother. clearly i’m not going to get any kind of nuanced view out of this particular group.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Carter the last great President?
I’ve only just stopped laughing!
It would be GWB for your favourite US Prez, I fully expect.
Jimmy Carter – 3
George W – 0
Two former presidents, George Bush, Sr. and Bill Clinton, have joined together to perform humanitarian acts throughout the Third World. If Jimmy Carter was such a great past president, why has he not been asked to join in this effort? President Carter prefers to bang nails in homes for Habitat for Humanity. A noble effort, but far less effective than the hundreds of millions of dollars raised by Presidents Bush and Clinton.
Sunny, I love this thread. Yeah, Hamas are a terrorist group but then so were the Jewish groups that eventually went onto become israel’s ruling parties.
as for his decision to plump so firmly for the palestinian narrative in such a one-sided and tendentious fashion, it beggars belief and removes any possibility for him to act as an honest broker in the future, which is a terrible shame because he is one of the few who might have managed it.
Huh? Yeah, because to be an ‘honest’ broker you have to unequivocally pledge your support to Israel, and its narrative, just like the US has been doing for the past decade. LOL. Bananabrain, sometimes I think it’d be fun if we took a vacation on each others’ respective planets, just to see what the view is like, and smell the air.
bananabrain – nuanced? I don’t normally comment on IP threads as ‘nuance’ does not live on them, but I really didn’t think your post could be left to stand un-answered. You hit Carter from both sides and then expect ‘nuance’?
You damn him for one thing, and forgive him all for another and so ask Isrealis to understand him and have patience , but yourself – you have dismissed him as not an honest broker?
- whats going on?
Personally, if Isrealis need ‘an honest broker’ to make them pause from digging and throw a rope into the hole they have spent 40 years digging, then I think Carter is the best they can expect. No other brokers around at the moment.
….Or Isrealis can wait another 20 years and let a future Chaiman of the Chinese Communist Party broker a deal for them.
Seriously – in the next decade the world and (West in particular) will have alot of problems to face on the environmental and economic front that will disrupt, and may overturn, the past way of doing things. The West will not have the time or inclination to indulge Isreal for long. Carter may be the last ‘broker’ that is at all interested in actually getting ‘peace’.
justforfun
Also, RE: Hamas being a terrorist group, this is an interesting comment.
i didn’t hit carter from “both sides”. i hit him from one, namely that if he was ever going to be taken seriously again by the israelis, as i thought he might have been, he has basically screwed it up now. i might have considered him an “honest broker” in the past, but i think he’s ruined any chance of doing it again. it would be the same if, say, king abdullah of jordan made one of those damfool announcements comparing everyone critical of israel to a nazi, it would completely ruin any chance that the palestinians might trust him as a mediator. that’s the point i was trying to make.
b’shalom
bananabrain
justforfun – your last paragraph – brilliant.
Bananabrain, unfair of you. There is more nuance on PP threads than most blogs I could mention. If “nuance” means uncritically and fawningly towing the Palestinian or Israeli line, or to look away when Israel or Palestine are the perpetrators of some abuse or another, then there are certainly other blogs who do “nuance” better than it is here.
bananabrian – sorry I was not clearer .
on one hand, i think he …..
on the other hand, camp david…..
Thats what I meant by both sides and both at the extreme – where was the nuance there? And at only comment #3 without Anas to wind you up
I suppose I have a soft spot for Jimmy Carter, but then unlike our friend Leo , I happen to appreciate the “Habitat for Humanity” sort of stuff and am not at all surprised to see that he is not with Bush and Clinton in their fund raising junkets – he probably does not have the ‘goods’ on all the low life tyrants they know around the world, and has to keep his strength up for try his best in the Middle east – he is afterall 83. He will be gone soon and who is there left that might be a broker.
If you understood the man more, you might realise he is the best man, for all his faults, that Isreal is going to get.
justforfun
Reagan of course!
How can there be any peace until the Hamas, as you point out the elected authority, do not recognise the right of Israel to exist?
It is IMPOSSIBLE until the Palestinian government, people, and society resign themselves to the fact that they will not ever rid the area of Jews, and that Israel will remain.
Once it is agreed that Israel does exist and is not going to disappear, then and only then can there be peace.
You can’t even have a two state solution if the Palestinian side does not recognise Israel.
If Jimmy Carter can convince Hamas to recognise Israel’s right to exist then I am actually Michael Jackson.
The Israelis will assist and recognise a Palestinian state, it has been offered several times. Concessions need to be made as in “we recognise Israel as a legitimate country so that we can have our own country and live in peace”
No, you’re the inverse Michael Moore.
A general comment Jimmy Carter as a broker.
In the past , serving US Presidents have acted the part, and as such are at the whim of their popularity back home.
Jimmy Carter is an ex – President and has no such worries or suspisions that he is also having to look after US interests. He has one deal under his belt already and with that comes some sort of prestige and experiance and a lack of a need to prove himself.
Now – what does a broker do exactly – he does not negotiate for each of the parties, merely facilitates where there is a will, or perhaps where a silent majority is being brow beaten into silence by a misguided loyalty to their vocal compatriots (on both sides).
If there is no actual ‘will’ on either side that is in the majority, then its game on as usual. The ‘broker’ will have mis-read the state of mind of the two populations. Now Jimmy might have totally misunderstood the majority of Isrealis desires to find a settlement, then he is wasting his time, but perhaps he hasn’t. Similarly on the Palistinian side, he might have mistaken the mood. Well he is doubly wasting his time then, but he is at least offering himself as someone who can facilitate that first move without people losing face. Of course one can throw as much mud as one likes at him from both sides, but why? Is it to try and taint the people who decide to actually talk to him.
justforfun
Sure, where have I heard before “we will accept Peace with Israel if “they will” blah blah blah. Arafat said it….and what did he actually do; nothing. Still hatred of Israel is a corner stone of Palestinian school children’s cirriculum. Israel in the past has given up land for peace, handed over prisoners for peace, left Gaza for peace,..and on and on. What have the Palestinian leadership ever “given up” for peace. Note: I feel for the Palestinian people, they are not to blame. It is their continuing corrupt leadership. When are the “compassionate people” going to learn that Palestinian LEADERSHIP (not is people) DO NOT WANT PEACE! They want the destruction of Israel at any cost..including decades of suffering by their own people..who they supposedly represent.
“Israel in the past has given up land for peace, handed over prisoners for peace, left Gaza for peace,..and on and on. What have the Palestinian leadership ever “given up” for peace.”
Analogy: The New Americans conquered the Native Americans. During this process the Native Americans were handed the “bad lands” and some desert expecting to give thanks for it (“trail of tears”). It took a few hundred years before the plight between the New Americans and the Native Americans became what it is today (Still horrible… ever been on an Indian reservation?). Israel and Palestine have been at it for what? 50 years? Give them some time.
By the way… ask your average Israeli Kid what they think of Palestinians… Negative Images are ingrained in Israeli school kids just the same.
what a great way to go into passover, well, i’ll see you all next week.
*sigh*
b’shalom
bananabrain
Good points justforfun
Does a neutral “faciltator” accuse one side of “apartheid” as Carter has?
Is that supposed to be helpful?
Surely just as unhelpful as describing Hamas as “terrorists”?
Carter also called for the US to stop classifying the Maoists in Nepal as terrosists – the only government in the world that still classifies the Maoists in this way. Unless things changed recently …
cjcjc, we are well past the neutrality stage and need for ‘honest brokers’ – George and Tony saw to that, along with all those before them (except Carter).
Time is not on Israel’s side. The predicted recession in the US may persuade some and firm the stance of others towards an agressive and worthless regime in Israel.
Seth Friedman is a good read on what goes on (find him on CiF). My favourite has always been Dilip Hiro.
its very nice for him to meet them of course but do you think that will mean its a step in the right direction? it may well be of course but i doubt it, perhaps i am cynical – but who is jimmy carter anyway? he’s not in power now and do the people in power listen to him? he’s considered a bit of a fluffball. I don’t see that him meeting Hamas means that he has balls. He has nothing to lose after all.
Jimmy “balls of steel” Carter has achieved nothing: Palestinians.
What a shocker!
i think jimmy carter aproach is right.HAMAS I THINK IS NOT TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, IF PALISTINE HAS NO ARMY TO FIGHT BACK ISRAIL UNLAW FULL INVASION , THEN PEOPLE OF PALESTINE HAVE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEM SELVES & TO STRIVE FOR INDEPENDENCE.
THEY ARE WEAK & OPPRESSED & THE POWER FULL WORLD THAT OCCUPIED THEM , KILLED THEM , PUT THIER LIVES IN MISERABLES CONDITIONS ARE CALLING THEM TERRORIST !!!!
WHAT A DEFINITION OF TERRORIST?????