What 1.3 billion Muslims think
Gallup, the global polling group, has conducted research in 35 Muslim countries, interviewing more than 50,000 people over a six-year period, to come up with what it is calling the first comprehensive survey of Muslim world opinion. The results will definitely discredit many aspects of received opinion, such as the “Muslim blanket hatred towards the West” canard, which certain commentators have made a quite a good living from deseminating. *cough* Hitchens, Steyn, Kamm, Wilders, Phillips, Lewis et al *cough*
From Reuters:
The results, published in a book called “Who Speaks for Islam? What a billion Muslims really think”, provide often surprising clues as to how Muslims perceive the West and how misunderstanding on both sides — often perpetuated by politicians and the media — can fuel suspicion and conflict.
“The conflict between Muslims and Western communities is far from inevitable,” co-author Dalia Mogahed said on Monday, laying out one of the fundamental conclusions she and John Esposito, a professor at Georgetown University, drew from the reams of data.
“It is more about policy than principles… Despite widespread anti-American and anti-British sentiment, Muslims around the world said they in fact admired much of what the West holds dear”, including freedom of speech, democracy, technological progress and access to knowledge.
“Muslims do not see the West as monolithic — their perception of different nations falls along policy, not cultural or religious lines,” she said.
The U.S. invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, where it is closely backed by Britain, have done much to colour the perception of the two in the Muslim world, where they are widely regarded “unfavourably” and described as “aggressive”.
Yet both Britain and the United States are at the same time held up by many Muslims as the best representatives of what is most admired about the West — the freedom of its citizens.
Arab Muslims were far more vocal in what they perceive as the double standards of Western parochialism in the region:
While admiring Western values, many Muslims feel they are not respected by the West and that the values the West espouses, such as democracy, are only given lip service when it comes to applying them in the Muslim world.
A recent example was the 2006 election in the Palestinian territories, which the Islamist movement Hamas won in a free and fair poll. The United States and Israel have since done much to ignore the result and try to push Hamas out of office.
“More than 65 percent of Egyptians, Jordanians and Iranians believe that the United States will not allow people in their region to fashion their own political future the way they see fit without direct U.S. influence,” Mogahed said.
“When we asked Muslims around the world what the West can do to improve relations with the Muslim world, the most frequent responses were for the West to demonstrate more respect for Islam and to regard Muslims as equals, not as inferior.”
The survey also did a parallel study of Western attitudes to Muslims which suggests that anti-Muslim attitudes in the West are far more pervasive than anti-Western attitudes are in the East. From US News:
Even in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, there were only percentages in the single digits that said they admired nothing about the West. When we asked Americans what they admired about the Muslim world, the most frequent response was “nothing.”
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Now what have we been saying all along? Why is it when a white man describes the voice of the Muslim it becomes fact, but when I have been telling you for years what we really feel, it was ignored? Nonetheless, at least you know now.
Not so much the “white man” as emperical evidence.
What do you admire about the Muslim world Sid? (Genuine question)
To be frank, the most interesting parts in the majority of the Muslim world for me are pre-islamic by far, i.e. the astounding pyramids in egypt, the emperor of persia who was thought to the be the first to produce a charter of human rights etc.
Abu Dubai looks fantastic. But I think that’s the most Westernised nation…
I wonder what Mustafa Kemal Ataturk would say
Oh lots and lots of things Marvin. I love slaughtering animals on my front lawn in Dhaka on Eid al Adha, I love the nargila bars of Khan el-Khalili in Cairo, I love the sexy policewomen in headscarfs in Aceh, I love the robustly handsome (all-male) bedouin dancers in Djibouti, I love the rugged hospitality of the opium dealers in NWFP in Pakistan, I love the smell of gava (coffee) in swanky five star hotels on the Gulf, I love the graceful charms of the women in Bandung, I love the scent of spices and oud in the markets of Fes, I love the architecture of old Istanbul, I love the biriyani they serve in the dhabas of old Delhi’s muslim quarter.
I remember when Gallup used to do the charts. Other than the scandal around keeping God Save The Queen off the top spot in 1977, I never had much reason to mistrust them. Although that Aled Jones things smelled of a fish
marv, what about the Taj Mahal?
Indian!
So who is the main consumer for this survey? Which opinion formers are going to look at this and make a policy change? Which news editors are going to use this to kickstart a string of articles questioning the current state of affairs in the world?
Or is all this old hat because (a) the muslims both here and abroad have known this for years and (b) those of differing opinion are to pig-headed to change?
Still, nice post Sid. Thumbs up.
Muslim!
Wow. Just wow. There’s no doubt that there’s huge problems with the mentalities of Muslims. But to discredit something good (such as this study) that portrays them differently than the general media is really just ignorance.
If you are referring to my comment, the ironically named Ms_Xtreme, then please….refer to the comment.
Worth repeating (and cutting and pasting) a review by Kerry Walters from the Amazon.com site, for the Book by Dalia Mogahed:
Random dude, if I was going to pick on you, I would’ve.
Mogahed’s book seems interesting. Are the statistics in the book backed by reliable sources?
Most Muslkims don’t hate the West? A known fact.
75% of asylum seekers to the UK are Muslim
Mass immigration from Muslims to the UK is a reality
they must be represented by the white man, through his study and meticulous science…. for the poor fellas cannot represent themselves.
fugstar,
I don’t entirely get your point. If you put it in a non-sarcastic way, it might be easier for me to grasp.
Are you saying the data is invalid because of it’s source?
A Gallup poll assessing “true” Muslim viewpoints is a nice, albeit iterative step towards clearing the air on who Muslims really are and what they think. However, it is the jewish controlled media that has set up the Muslim bogeyman, Islamo-fascist vs. western enlightenment dichotomy. Who will dismantle that machine?
they don’t hate me yet i would be imprisoned, maybe tortured or stoned for being what I am openly, in nearly all Muslim countries: GAY
Salmanrush
Have you noticed that this study shows muslims as very much not the bogeymen? Does this allay your fears of the “jewish controlled media” a teeny weeny bit?
Hi,
I totally believe that most Muslims are not as they have been portrayed. However, Muslim organisations claiming to represent a majority of Muslims do a lot of damage to how the white people perceive Muslims. It’s easy to say oh it’s Bush that tarnishes the Muslims’ image and the whities are gullible ignoramuses (or ignorami?) but he and others would not be believed had it not been for the actions and views of “community leaders”. There are relatively few Muslim voices who can counter them and their ideas, and I suspect it’s mostly because of intimidation and fear people don’t speak their mind. Do correct me though if I’m not right as I’m not very knowledgable in this area.
Sid,
Yes, the Gallup study allays my fears of the media spinning Muslims as bogeymen just a teeny weeny bit.
The problem is that you have blowhards on the NY Times, Washington Post and New Republic — the Bill Kristols, Tom Friedmans and Charles Krauthammers of the world — beating their chests every single day for their largely jewish readership about the unenlightened, irrational and uneducated Muslim masses. I don’t know that a dry poll from Gallup can disrupt the daily sway that those loudmouths have over global opinion of Muslims.
Hettie,
Whilst I thought a lot of your post @ 20 was sensible, I do not take kindly to being described as a “gullible ignoramous”
I am not twisted by either ‘community leaders’ nor the POTUS.
Some folk make their own minds up, and it’s not to do with skin colour, nor religion. I’d prefer it if you didn’t think everyone with a white skin thought the same. And there are folk with another colour of skin that can make, exactly the same distinction. Y’know, between right and wrong?
Just askin’
Sorry to rain on your parade but…
“Muslims around the world said they in fact admired much of what the West holds dear”, including freedom of speech, democracy, technological progress and access to knowledge.”
Could mean anything. I mean, they’re not going to say yeah, we hate the West’s technological progress and access to knowledge. We’d rather live in mud huts and be illiterate.
I think this is a great piece of research and am surprised by what a sad bunch some of you are.
If the study shows that Muslims are unstirred by extremist demagogues, have minds of their own and are shown to have the same cultural and political aspirations as everyone else:
some muslims mutter that either the “jewish controlled media” is what should really be tackled or these are opinions made for the “white man”!
whilst some non-muslims remonstrate about the total lack of ambiguity in the statements by pretending there is ambiguity!
Goes to show that you can produce a scientific study of this depth and quality and it will still fail to change the mindsets of people.
Sid @ #24:
….hence my comment at #8 Sid.
But it is symptomatic of a wider issue if we purely look at the OPINIONS that people have. And thats not even to mention the non-muslims who will say “Yes but” and continue on their standard path.
I would like a similar survey conducted in the West for dissemination in Muslim countries. That way we can see how far along perceptions in either country are in comparison. What do you think?
This is hardly surprising. Like the vast majority of people moderate muslims as individuals reconcile their personal beliefs and the nasty bits without issue.
Its the extremists that are the problem, they are not interested in that, operate as groups not individuals, are extremely violent and as such islamism has to be confronted on all fronts for the simple reason that it threatens us in a very real way and requires a robust response.
The problem is agendas and dubious individuals and various groups mudding the waters and in this case made worse by mullahs, islamic groups, undemocratic regimes and relatively illiterate populations.
In every society the vast majority try to carry on with life while the holier than thou extremists with nothing better to do than feel superior will try to best to co-opt them and do what they do best, make noise and be intolerant. But they are far from representative, the illusion that they are would be the success they crave and some non-muslims and muslims including those who do not necessarily support violence but are suffering from a victim complex are only too happy to perpetuate this.
Moderates do not have a special responsibility to isolate extremists simply because they do not have the influence, organization, capability or even voice to do this, they are individuals carrying on with their lives and may not be interested in or have the time to organize themselves and get into the religious politics of this, the extremists are well organized groups who only have time for this.
The complexity is the cause the extremists peddle – their real cause is a totalitarian supremacist utopia feeding on global victimhood – is shared by a lot of people who may be muslims; US foreign policy, western hypocrisy and self interest etc. But these things have to be addressed on another level not from the shoulders of crazy violent fanatics rampaging around the globe with backward ideas on life and society. The distinction is not always made because of all the talk of root cause bla bla bla but its essential for those with a beef against the foreign policy to make their point and address it on a different platform and yet isolate the extremists. It would be better if these were 2 separate issues and we have to detangle them from the current mess.
It’s not in anyone interests to amplify the threat or minimize it. It exists and has to be confronted. But outside of prejudice, generalization, victimhood and perhaps even religion.
22- douglas, good point.
–
a poll saying the ‘muslim world’ thinks x y z. yes do lets have a poll saying this is what the ‘western world’ thinks or the ‘white world’ thinks this or the ‘christian world’ thinks this that or the other and then why not the pink world and the black world and the world of science-fiction jedi knight watchers.
May as well do a poll saying the ‘world’ thinks this that and the other, while we are at it? I human, do testify, that i would like to have quality of life, have a tv – access to knowledge. perhaps after a while, we can then generalise enough to start referring to – hey presto! ‘human’ psychology & sociology & some common human desires and interests, perhaps. Who knows!
the fact that we have to have ‘polls’ like this and get excited about them just highlights how apalling the state of the world is.
Moderates are moderates because they are moderate – ie, they’re too busy living a modertae, normal life to take on “extremists”. That’s kind of the point.
That’s why polticians/ govt. has a duty to act radically and take on the extremists – that’s what “we moderates” pay them for – to monster the mad mullahs or whomever and keep them out of our hair, not pat them on the back and pay them benefits.
Sure, then we nice liberals can go, oooh that’s a bit harsh, but the silent, moderate majority will be thinking – about bloody time.
i think that everyone from #25 down makes excellent points, everything from “let’s see what the so-called west really thinks” to “moderates are not nearly as noisy as extremists”. however, sid, what you seem to be suggesting is that there aren’t any problems and it’s all just a giant con. try living as a jew for one fecking month and you’ll see there really are problems – i am not making this stuff up. in fact, i am far less worried about people in the “muslim world” (who imho would be a lot happier if they could move forward out of their current state, which would remove a lot of the extremism) than i am about the muslims in the UK, who appear to me to be far more extreme, probably because to them an “islamic state”, “shari’a” and so on are all less real and immediate and therefore far more idealised.
b’shalom
bananabrain
however, sid, what you seem to be suggesting is that there aren’t any problems and it’s all just a giant con.
*sigh* no, that’s what I am saying at all. What I am saying is confirmed by the second part of your comment.
This is a survey of attitudes of people in 35 muslim-majority countries conducted over the last 6 years. Muslims in the UK have not been surveyed in this study. What the results do show, and which I have been saying all along, is that there is a chasmic disconnect between the attitudes of the majority of muslims living in the east with those of muslims living here in the liberal west. And that is that just as you say, muslims in muslim-majority countries are far less eager to romanticise about living under sharia law than muslims in the west are. They see far more value in democracy and the right to choose their own leaders than muslims in the west who have benefitted from democracy but cannot see how it confers them the rights that their co-religionists are deprived of in their own lands.
“muslims in muslim-majority countries are far less eager to romanticise about living under sharia law than muslims in the west are. They see far more value in democracy and the right to choose their own leaders than muslims in the west who have benefitted from democracy but cannot see how it confers them the rights that their co-religionists are deprived of in their own lands”
Now thats a Six and out of sight over the Pavillion end!
Great Post and Comment Sid.
yes that’s a very pertinent point from sid
Its great that we have an empirical study from gallup showing that Muslims are not frothing at the mouth islamo fascist shariah touting monsters. However, can an empirical study write an article in the NY Times Op-ed that dispels the mistruths that are diseminated on a daily basis in the American media? Can it go onto a poltical talkshow? My point is that there is no spokesperson/talking head that is pointing to this study to make a difference in the western media’s image of Muslims and in the daily lives of Muslims in the West.
Good point Sid – its another manifestation of immigrant communities being more culturally conservative than the folks they left back home.
SalmanRush – be careful for what you wish for
– if it became common knowledge that most Muslims in Muslim countries are not frothing raving lunatics, then who would take notice of British Muslims again when they froth and rave.
justforfun
there a million things I can list as positive and much appreciated contributions to to the world from Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Indian and every other culture out there. Love the music, art, food, history…. I’ve said before an answer to most of the worlds problems would be a sort of renaissance and celebration of human achievement and all that makes life worth living.
I’m glad “western values” like those listed are seen as good ….. and if there is anything to admire its the people standing up for those freedoms.
…. and I hope they realize that – maybe we are the way we are because of them and it opens the door to much needed reform.
But even inside cities like Abu Dubai, its far from modern as far as rights go…. flicker is banned there… racist laws exist and homosexuality is a death crime… even if it isnt strictly enforced.
‘imigrants are frothing and homelanders are cute harmless little secular democrats who want to be white’
Not so many muslims in the homelands have got the economic, social and mental conditions that allow them to imagine the future that londonistanis can. Most are struggling very hard to establish themselves and their institutions. They did not grow up in an environment where most of the ‘building’ work had been done over the past 100s of years. They are building young excolonial states. They do have hope though, and its different from romantisisation. Consiousness of the islamic identity is growing there in many places, which is cool.
That is not the same as saying they dont want this or that future. Its amusing how common it is for people, normally westerners or gharbzadegi, to project their own blinkers on the people.
On the “immigrants are more conservative” trope. Theres something else going on. ‘Get-aheads’ are always keen to get ahead and present themselves according to the hegemonies preferences. Many of them inhabit the halls of power in the east and many migrated to north america. Looking at the communities in the UK, especially the more populous regional ones that have been able to reestablish and grow their identities, I dont know if anyone can really say who is more ‘conservative’. Whatever it is that south asians with religion issues mean by ‘conservative’.
You can make anyone look conservative if you push the right button, or ask the right question.
SalmanRush, there is another side to this survey: It blows apart the idiocy of the Islamists like the one on #35 who insist that “the white man” and “blinkered secular coconuts” are out to “project” their values onto the Muslims in the East, when the study shows categorically that the situation is quite the opposite. Scientific studies like these show that, in actual fact, it is the Islamists who are projecting their ideas onto people in 35 countries who couldn’t care less stupid Islamist nonsense.
gosh sid, it actually sounds like we agree…..
b’shalom
bananabrain
yeah, that’s because i’m a secular coconut and you’re part of the jewish controlled media.
The appeal to ’scientific study’ as some kind of value neutral truth from the gharbzadegi makes me more comfy in my idiocy.
Muslims really do care about scaling up and translating their principles, teachings and truth socially and beyond into the ways they approach their problems. You don’t have to be ‘islamist’ to recognise that and in a small way try to honour that.
and in #4, that is a repulsive way to refer to the ladies of Aceh. btw I think they would also disgust you with their moral policing.
Their moral policing does disgust me but the natural sexiness of Aceh women does not.
34 jff – quite!
i think what Reem is saying here makes good sense in general
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/reem_maghribi/2007/06/europes_future_cultural_cross_pollination.html
#37
Sid,
Point well taken…now please write the op-ed and submit it to the “jewish controlled media.”
The appeal to ’scientific study’ as some kind of value neutral truth from the gharbzadegi makes me more comfy in my idiocy.
Aren’t you the one doing a PhD? I shudder to think what your supervisors think of your methodology. What are you using for data?
Sid – speak to Max Mosley – he might be able to help you out with some phone numbers and arrange for some acting Aceh policewomen for you.
justforfun
Fugstar – I take your point that in muslim homelands, the mass don’t have the spare time or cash as life is just tough getting by so they look around for a system that offers an escape, but what evidence have you that if “Muslims” get more free time and cash, they won’t actually just want a McDonalds to open up on the nearest street corner ASAP. Your predictions jar with the McDonald’s Univerity course for global domination – however I’ll be open minded and admit past actions don’t predict future actions ; so what will be different this time around?
Is the IRI a beacon of popular islamic expression? They’ve had the petrol dollars and the time to engineer the revival – so is the IRI the result of this flowering? – of course not – because its not actually what ‘people’ want when they have spare time and cash – so that is why the mullahs have kept the cash and kept the people poor because they know -’gharbzadegi’ is indeed their worst enemy.
Fugstar – get with the project – any if you don’t like it – let some one else take your space. You might have noticed – there is a long queue to get in
justforfun
I use gharbzadegi because its such a wonderful term to describe hopeless captive minds, not out of uncritical support for the experiement in iran. Whats IRI (dont they research hybridised rice?), surely you mean IRNA no?
some people will be shallow and materialist and go for petty commerce and apemanship. its ok, they pay taxes and come in useful sometimes if you need an accountant. it takes all sorts.
I can only speak from what ive seen and what i have looked for, but muslims with talent and money do beautiful things. Mostly in secret. they do not blog about it.
The akhiz biri walla (large cigarette factory owner) has built the most beautiful hospital in ‘ordinary’ dhaka. AdDin hospital, and its targetted at the lower income groups. its the cleanest place in the city.
Notice he didnt call it ‘Secularism is Funky – whoopee doo why do i get beaten out of brick lane?’.
Everywhere, when people are secure enough, they do their own philanthropy in their own way to improve thins, schools, orphanages, hospitals, learned societies. Theres an endowment in dhaka dedicated to giving every unclaimed dead body they come accross a decent burial, no USAID begging crap from them. Its great. People just need the space, but too much disturbs them in the interim.
i really dont know what project you think you are talking about, or whatever ’space’ you think you have to offer.
Fugstar,
Just for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVyDd-jmqHs
fugoo mia, a million hospitals by the Islamist cigarette tycoon would not recompense the damage he has done to the poor by selling them cheap, unregulated tobacco for the last 40+ years. And he thinks he’s paid his way to jannah by building a poxy hospital for the poor? We’ll take the hospital, he can go eff himself.
Anyway, isn’t cigarette smoking rather Westoxificatory? Or are these values/labels only applicable to detractors of your braindead brotherhood?
Haha. I remember seeing Akijuddin in the early 90’s sitting poolside at the Dhaka Sonargoan, smoking his knockoff 555’s, talking into his enormous motorola handset, laughing some sly laugh. I guess now the man is trying to become the cigarette Aga Khan, building shiny new hospitals.
JustForFun,
Max Mosely – chip off the old fascist block?
Sid – perhaps – but certainly a troubled man. He should know , “everything in moderation” and so 5 is too many. 2 would be sufficient I think for a good ‘thrashing’
….with talent and money do beautiful things. Mostly in secret. they do not blog about it.
…as it should be for all good philanthropists. Never trust someone who shouts about his charity.
….for the experiement in iran.
doesn’t bode well for the future if you are already writing off the IRI as an experiment and not the “real deal”. In the next experiment , what parameter would you change. More education for the peasants? less education for the peasants? More money? more religion? better scholars? Different country as a starting point perhaps?
justforfun
Please, I’m trying not to think about the Mosely thing. Presumably while cavorting with these ladies of the night dressed in nazi costumes he could only have been visualising … daddy? Let’s just pretend such things don’t happen.
Thnking about snowflakes, thinking about kittens …
fugoo mia, a million hospitals by the Islamist cigarette tycoon would not recompense the damage he has done to the poor by selling them cheap, unregulated tobacco for the last 40+ years
Only if you accept the line peddled by westoxified secular science, I suppose.
If I owned a business based on one of the few vices generally considered haram, I know where I would be spending my PR budget…
AdDin hospital wasnt set up by an ‘islamist’. You are really sweet with you are pumped up righteous indignation, allow some blood flow to your brain and stop perving on the sisters in Aceh. I wonder what kind of gharbzadegi dialysis machine you need.
His ‘judgement’ is not our issue, its a silly thing to think but very ‘you’. Its an example, out of many, of a person with wealth doing something and adorning it with religious meaning. He wanted to donate to a lot of causes and institutions, one that i know of refused because of halal issues concerning his income.
Just for fun,
Im not a state builder by the way. There was a time to fight out the imperialists(fanon), then to build states, a few generations on i think the demand is something else(said). People but have always tried better things in the history of mankind. They will continue to do so, hopefully we will all improve.
AdDin hospital wasnt set up by an ‘islamist’.
Let’s just say he has palm-greasing tendencies when it comes to the Jamaati Islami.
I can only speak from what ive seen and what i have looked for, but muslims with talent and money do beautiful things. Mostly in secret. they do not blog about it.
Silly fugoo! The Akij Group have hardly been secret about their “philanthropic” AdDin hospital, which was previously operated by the Save The Children charity. It’s funny how good old Islamist capitalism is a “beautiful thing” to PhD students who don’t know scientific research if it wore a headscarf, a police unifirm and came and sat on their face.
[oops did i say that aloud?]
The only Polls I like are tall and hard working. Seriously enough with this Muslim Mind BS.
Oh sid, you talk such tripe with your greasy palmed and minded existance. Bangladeshi men these days in bangladesh, when they get old tend to reflect on religion more than they did in their youth. You shout the word ‘islamist’ like you are a rabid dog. you really should see someone about that. Its quite embarrassing.
I can use dozens of examples but thats a public one. and the hospital is wonderful, of course you specialise in malevolence and evil and probably prefer the ones with better international PR and development propaganda attached. Thats your limitation. I was impressed at the service, but then again you proclaim yourself to be ‘posh’ so i doubt you’d have any cause to ever venture there to use a service needed by ordinary people.
Promoting good with capital is not the sole preserve of capitalism, neither do the ‘left’ have a monopoly on equity for goodness sake.
The point is that its the flavour willed into the philanthropy that says a lot. Secularising forces can only get money from aid agencies or from state patronage I predict they may die out if the aid pump were switched off. The natural mode of philanthropy is through waqfs as the people organise around their values and put their own money where their hopes are.
there are at least 10 times more waqfs in that particular country than NGOs.
the ‘muslim mind’ is a common ruse for people to let out their pent up issues. Sid you should read this crap book, it will make you even more stupid and misleading http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muslim-Mind-Rajmohan-Gandhi/dp/014029905X
Listen, try and understand the difference between Islamist and muslim. Eveyone else has and they are wise to your ridiculous more-muslim-than-thou bollocks. Furthermore, get your facts right before you start piping up with that Islamist bumbaklart. To wit:
*Akij is an Islamist, he has a long history of backing the Jamaati Islami.
*His philanthropic “hospital” project is not the modest, secret act of alms-giving to the poor you are making it out to be. Check his website.
*Given his track record of being a peddlar of tobacco for the last 60 years , I think it is his responsibility to build dozens more hospitals instead of funding the Jamaati.
So now that we like the answers that Muslim give — because they aren’t laced with jihadism — there *is* a collective Muslim mind?
Eff that.
Why is everyone, Muslims included, always turning the Muslim into the Borg?
I’ve mocked this mentality here:
http://www.jewcy.com/post/musamlism_may_spell_death_west
I’m so with Bikhair.
“The only Polls I like are tall and hard working. Seriously enough with this Muslim Mind BS.”
Amen.
I’ll add that the only Polls I like are tall, with thick thighs and appear on Viva Polska.
59.
Given your identification of the spam filter on global voices as a genocide denier i dont thing temperance is your quality. Akij biri walas alliance is news to me, but then deeni orgs have a lot of allies not all of whom have taste. But then i dont trust anything you write, especially on the issue of ‘islamism’. somebody kicked your sandcastle down and it wasnt me. I can agree on your third point.
Nobody with a belief and vague understanding of deeni organisations in bangladesh as well the uk context would really believe anything you say. You are too synthetic and faked. Suffice to say your native informancy is probably not even worth much on the ideological rentboy market. Your unholier-than-me complex is your own problem and possibly linked to your south asian riligion issues.
I don’t think this study makes out muslims to be the Borg. It has taken pains to suggest that, microcosmically, there is a difference between what Syrians don’t want and, say, and what Indonesians don’t want. But macrocosmically, what muslims desire is surpise! – freakishly universal. More human condition than Borg, i’d like to think.
I know its unlike me but I will comment without reading most of what has gone upthread.
Just read about the review of Martin Amis’ latest foray into serious thinking:
Keyword: “Chuckleheaded”
Use: To be used freely when describing Martin Amis, Melanie Philips, Michael Gove, Christopher Hitchens et al
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/amis-he-owes-it-all-to-hitchens-says-critic-807790.html
“chuckleheaded”
“pretentious and formalistic”.
“When did Martin Amis – whose early journalism is among the best I’ve ever read – become such a jerk?”
“fair example of the myopic Western attitudes that helped create the problem it describes”.
hur hur hur. that is a *really* funny article. i think i’m going to start calling people muslamists from now on.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Why would you do that?
oh, i don’t know, there isn’t enough humour about, particularly where muslims are concerned?
don’t be a humourless lefty, refresh.
b’shalom
bananabrain
well we have fugstar, he’s a laugh a minute.
see, now, sid, you just made me crack up.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Sorry, just didn’t get it.
the estimable bananabrain is referring to the article by the estimable ali eteraz linked to by the estimable marvin #9.
here’s a Jewish Muslim joke:
“Moishe, have you lost your mind? Why are you reading an Arab newspaper?” Moishe replied, “I used to read the Jewish newspaper, but what did I find? Jews being persecuted, Israel being attacked, Jews disappearing through assimilation and intermarriage, Jews living in poverty. So I switched to the Arab newspaper. Now what do I find? Jews own all the banks, Jews control the media, Jews are all rich and powerful, Jews rule the world. The news is so much better!”
He signs off
‘Somewhat based on partly true events.’
whereas they are the meanderings of tedious mind.
Found the comments much funnier – don’t miss the link to shariafinancewatch blog. Looks like a jihadwatch franchise roll-out.
Nice work eteraz, for a court jester.
Sid – very funny
now for some grammer lessons
http://www.indianpad.in/view/149/indian-explains-the-word-fk/
justforfun