Sunny Hundal website



  • Family

    • Liberal Conspiracy
    • Sunny Hundal
  • Comrades

    • Andy Worthington
    • Angela Saini
    • Bartholomew’s notes
    • Bleeding Heart Show
    • Bloggerheads
    • Blood & Treasure
    • Campaign against Honour Killings
    • Cath Elliott
    • Chicken Yoghurt
    • Daily Mail Watch
    • Dave Hill
    • Dr. Mitu Khurana
    • Europhobia
    • Faith in Society
    • Feminism for non-lefties
    • Feministing
    • Gender Bytes
    • Harry’s Place
    • IKWRO
    • MediaWatchWatch
    • Ministry of Truth
    • Natalie Bennett
    • New Statesman blogs
    • Operation Black Vote
    • Our Kingdom
    • Robert Sharp
    • Rupa Huq
    • Shiraz Socialist
    • Shuggy’s Blog
    • Stumbling and Mumbling
    • Ta-Nehisi Coates
    • The F Word
    • Though Cowards Flinch
    • Tory Troll
    • UK Polling Report
  • In-laws

    • Aaron Heath
    • Douglas Clark's saloon
    • Earwicga
    • Get There Steppin’
    • Incurable Hippie
    • Neha Viswanathan
    • Power of Choice
    • Rita Banerji
    • Sarah
    • Sepia Mutiny
    • Sonia Faleiro
    • Southall Black Sisters
    • The Langar Hall
    • Turban Head

  • Americans ready for black president


    by Sunny
    7th April, 2008 at 5:52 pm    

    The number of Americans who believe that the country is ready for a black president is rising, a poll released Thursday suggested. More than three quarters, 76 percent, of respondents in a CNN/Essence Magazine/Opinion Research Corp. poll said the country is ready to be led by an African-American, up 14 percentage points since December 2006.

    “Optimism about the country’s acceptance of a black president is higher among black men than among black women, higher among college-educated blacks than among those with no college degree and higher among younger blacks than older blacks,” Holland said.

    The poll also suggested that more Americans think the country is ready for a black president than a female president. Sixty-three percent of those surveyed say the country is ready for a female president, 13 points lower than those who say the country is ready for a black president.

    “Do Americans see more prejudice against a woman than an African-American? More likely, they see more negative feelings about this woman than about this African-American. Because it’s true. More people have an unfavorable opinion of Hillary Clinton than of Barack Obama,” Schneider said.

    From CNN. Interesting eh? The American election itself has been a brilliant way to talk about race, at least for me, without having to be annoyed at something.


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Current affairs,Race politics,United States






    24 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs


    1. Dalbir — on 7th April, 2008 at 6:09 pm  

      Any chance of moving this to a discussion about ethnic minorities and their chances of leading Britain one day. Hell forget about leading Britain, what about being allowed to be independent and given positions of responsibility without schizo white men getting overly nervous (by the way I’m talking about real ethnics here - not the token easily manipulated variety which already have a “strong” representation as it is).

    2. Sunny — on 7th April, 2008 at 6:11 pm  

      What’s a “real” ethnic as opposed to a “token” one? Do you have to twirl your moustache every 10 min and swear loudly in Punjabi for that?

    3. Don — on 7th April, 2008 at 6:17 pm  

      Sunny,

      in this context I think a ‘real ethnic’ is rather like a ‘true scotsman’.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    4. Sunny — on 7th April, 2008 at 6:24 pm  

      Of course, but I want to hear how our friendly “true ethnic” Dalbir defines it. The rest of us brown “coconuts” in the media don’t matter you see. We’re just pretending to be brown etc

    5. Dalbir — on 7th April, 2008 at 7:23 pm  

      Flippin’ hell Sunny. I wasn’t going where you have gone in your post. Appears to have tapped a nerve….hmm

      Easy Tiger!!

      But anyway. Before I start I must state that my postings are in the interests of wider discussion between us. Especially those of us who would not normally have the opportunity or even desire to explore such topics. I personally believe that such topics have been made taboo to the advantage of white people in power. Obama’s awesome speech regarding his now infamous pastor may be the first salvo in a long needed debate. Well here goes. For what it’s worth (Sunny don’t be so defensive BTW, this is just a general discussion - it is not aimed at individuals - yet).

      I think when white “in power” society decides to elevate some ethnic to a position of rank they generally choose a safe bet who is especially malleable and sympathetic to their own requirements. One criteria is that the person does not use their position to bring to the forefront issues that may compromise the advantage held by those in power. So in effect the token becomes complicit in maintaining the status quo and is rewarded by his/her new position and the status and financial reward from this. The token in the meanwhile is used to counter arguments from other ethnics who may be at the receiving end of overt of covert racism. In this way issues that effect many lives are swept under the rug so to speak.

      What I think is implicitly being said to ethnics through tokens is that “they can do it. why can’t you?”. The actual answer to the question for many of us is that often the person concerned is a boot licking monkey, who you have by the bollocks and would jettison at the first sign of truly challenging and independent thought. This would be a position that many of us would seek to avoid.

      I notice white society also seems to use the word “radical” a lot to describe anyone who may want to challenge their hold. This appears to be a codeword for “may challenge our domination”. I get the impression that behind this is some (possibly) internalised fear of different people and other cultures/ways of thinking. In effect what they are doing is isolating themselves away from anything they do not want to hear. White people need to stop this.

      What are the chances of British white people - in power - ever descending from their mental towers and actually entertaining alternative views. Or is the cognitive dissonance just too much to take right now? Up until then I think I would be well justified in viewing many of “our representatives” with some measure of scepticism.

      (Just for the record - Sunny this is in no way directed at you so no angry outbursts - please).

    6. leon — on 7th April, 2008 at 9:15 pm  

      Do you have to twirl your moustache every 10 min and swear loudly in Punjabi for that?

      *sticks on fake moustache, twirls*

      PENCHOD! :D

    7. El Cid — on 7th April, 2008 at 10:14 pm  

      I’ll wager Americans are even more ready for a black female vice president.

    8. douglas clark — on 8th April, 2008 at 12:00 am  

      Heh.

      Only if they are assured she is a lesbian. In charge of vice….

      Leon, what is PECHOD? It seems to me to mean Personal Extranous Copper Hair On Dummies, but that can’t be right, can it?

    9. Dalbir — on 8th April, 2008 at 12:42 am  

      Doug

      It’s similar to “muthafucka” but instead involves your sister….an endearing little phrase from the subcontinent. I would probably spell it panchord BTW. Not that I use such language in my daily life.

      All the white people in the house. Do you actually see any of what I put in the post?

    10. douglas clark — on 8th April, 2008 at 1:17 am  

      Dalbir,

      re:

      All the white people in the house. Do you actually see any of what I put in the post?

      I try to. Thanks for the info.

    11. Sunny — on 8th April, 2008 at 6:06 am  

      Dalbir, I’ll comment on that in a bit. In the meantime read this:
      http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/31/losing_the_narrative/
      It somewhat supports what you say and somewhat offers a different view.

    12. douglas clark — on 8th April, 2008 at 8:42 am  

      Sunny,

      TPM’s concluding paragraph:

      Obama, an African American from the south side of Chicago (sort of), has become the embodiment of this call. The question is, will the deep structures of American power accept a stealthy revolutionary’s ascent to the pinnacle? I doubt it, very seriously. As his life experience and his current political strategy would seem to suggest, he can only succeed by abandoning the critical, skeptical, dissident’s voice which is the truest political expression of the lessons learned by black people over the long centuries of being America’s ‘niggers.’ So, anyway, is how I’m seeing things at the moment.

      is at odds with the 76% or so of Americans that feel comfortable about electing a black president. And the lessons he claims to have learned are the lessons of someone who is a perpetual victim, unable to see progress for what it is.

      Let’s be quite clear about this. Barak Obama did not abandon Wright. In fact, he put his entire political career in the spotlight, in order not to throw a friend to the wolves. That, whatever else can be said about the man, is honourable. I’m not sure what TPM’s principles are, but Obama’s are up there for all to see.

    13. Letters From A Tory — on 8th April, 2008 at 10:13 am  

      A black president would send out a powerful signal to Americans and countries around the world. Even though it shouldn’t matter at all what race or gender the president is, it clearly affects people’s perceptions.

      http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com

    14. billericaydicky — on 8th April, 2008 at 11:02 am  

      Before we go any further can we define what is black? The clown who runs Operation Black Vote Simon Wooley claims that it is a political construct which includes all people who have suffered as a result of their skin colour or ethnic origins. Apparently this includes Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese etc etc. No one actually consulted any of these people to ask if they wanted to be black, Simon Wooley, Lee Jasper et al decided for them and then started to rake in the money. At least until last December when the gravy train hit the buffers of the London Evening Standard.

      I would like to know in what way Obama is a black man. He had a black father just as many other mixed race people had and have but that does not make him black.

      What is happening here is a reversal of the one drop rule that was used in aphartied South Africa and the segregationist American South. One drop and your black. I was always amused when I used to see people who were clearly three quarters white dressing up in African robes and shouting about the right to go back to Africa. I used to point out to them that all they have to do is get on a plane and go but also pointed out that most of Africa wants to be in Europe.

      The whole OBV agenda was of course a massive financial fraud, there is no common ground between all of the ethnic groups that they defined as black. The Lozell’s riots in Birmingham made that clear and I can imagine what Mr Singh would do if he caught his daughter with a black man! The kirpan would be out double quick!

      Reading Dalbir is a bit like being at an anti racist meeting in the seventies or eighties. Everybody was trying to more oppressed than anyone else. The Jamaicans were on about slavery so they should be the leaders, the Asians said because of the Raj they should lead the movement.

      The whites were told that they were all racists, should go on race awareness courses and apologise for everything. Because I’m part Irish traveler and part Essex gypsy I was excluded from this and became an honorary black because I was “oppressed”! It came as no surprise of course that all of these radicals eventually ended up with well paid cushy jobs in the race industry.

      Dalbir, what exactly is covert racism? I,ve heard of all of the others, institutional,unwitting,unconscious but this is a new one on me. And of course, while we are at it, could you explain to me exactly what the meaning of your post was.

    15. Dalbir — on 8th April, 2008 at 12:10 pm  

      Biller..

      —————————————
      Dalbir, what exactly is covert racism? I,ve heard of all of the others, institutional,unwitting,unconscious but this is a new one on me. And of course, while we are at it, could you explain to me exactly what the meaning of your post was.
      —————————————

      When I speak of covert racism I’m talking about the scheming between members of power holding groups to retain their status. So for example in a workplace this could mean people who plot and scheme to make the outsiders life less pleasant than it should be simply because of their race. At worse it is designed to create an atmosphere so unpleasant that the person/people targeted leave. It is like some sort of sport some evil white people indulge in, when the opportunity arises.

      What I was trying to get at in my post (amongst other things) is that white approved “representatives” of ethnic groups generally suck because they don’t challenge white hegemony. Confidence that they will not do this is what generally makes the white people promote them to their positions in the first place. They are a safe bet and deflect from the genuine concerns of masses of the persons ethnic group. They essentially become pawns in a white supremicist game.

      ———————————————-
      Reading Dalbir is a bit like being at an anti racist meeting in the seventies or eighties. Everybody was trying to more oppressed than anyone else. The Jamaicans were on about slavery so they should be the leaders, the Asians said because of the Raj they should lead the movement.
      ———————————————-

      Well I around in that era and for many of us it was genuinely shite. Race attacks against “asians” were commonplace (at least in East London) and even the police and national media seemed to be sympathetic to the nazis.

      There is another story that remains to be told of those days and it is about the bravery of many young guys who challenged and fought British nazism directly. These youngsters also had to face a racist legal system on top of this as well. So whilst the 70s and 80s may represent some jumped up meetings for yourself, it wasn’t like that for many of us (funnily enough I recall an “uncle ji” chasing a group of abusive yobbo skinheads down the road, kirpan in hand). It is only now that I am older that I can see things for what they were and that was pretty much teenaged ethnic kids taking on some nasty forces that were, I believe, trying to propagate ideas of their inherent inferiority.

      Reflecting on all this decades later, and looking at the state of race relations today, the next battle for ethnic people here is against the hidden racism that permeates white society. This is the one that indulges in wholesale oppression, exclusion and international domination of resources and politics. By doing this we may well save them from themselves in the long term.

    16. Derius — on 8th April, 2008 at 1:21 pm  

      To Post 13

      And appointing a black female vice President didn’t send out that message?

    17. bikhair — on 8th April, 2008 at 3:22 pm  

      Obama’s most ardent opponents are blacks themselves. They will be paraded about, especially after he recieves the nomination, to say what many arent comfortable enough to say, regardless of how bizarre and stupid it is.

      Check this crazy black Pastor out. He has since been on the AM talk radio shows in America and Fox News.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtIqeV-6mk&feature=related

    18. Dalbir — on 8th April, 2008 at 3:57 pm  

      Can we bring this back to the chances of a non white person leading Britain. Is this possible? Why or why not?

    19. Dalbir — on 9th April, 2008 at 5:13 pm  

      ——————-
      Can we bring this back to the chances of a non white person leading Britain. Is this possible? Why or why not?
      ——————-

      Any takers or is this some sort of taboo subject????

    20. Justforfun — on 9th April, 2008 at 6:24 pm  

      I’m up for a taboo break - but Dalbir, first define non-white.

      Justforfun

    21. Dalbir — on 9th April, 2008 at 6:46 pm  

      Just For Fun

      Lets just say would it be acceptable for a third generation “Asian” who has been born, raised and educated here to seriously contend for a the prime minister position.

      What would go through the average indigenous mind when he was canvassing? At what point will people like that be considered a natural part of Britain and not an outsider?

      The way I see it, hypothetically, the grandson of a Nazi German who fought against the British would be more acceptable than say the grandson of a Sikh whose grandfather may have fought for these isles (consider both to have been born and raised here).

      I guess what i’m trying to gauge is just how important colour still is in politics. How far has the British identity gone to accommodate newer inhabitants of these isles or are they still seen as outsiders? What are the implications of this?

    22. Justforfun — on 9th April, 2008 at 7:37 pm  

      Lets just say would it be acceptable for a third generation “Asian” who has been born, raised and educated here to seriously contend for a the prime minister position.

      I’m not trying to deflect the arguement away from skin colour, but I would imagine ‘class’ would be a more important factor. If your hypothetical 3rd generation “asian” has remainded untainted by anglo-saxon blood in the previous two generations, BUT is seen by whites to have totally bought into the class structure of this country, I don’t think there would be an issue about skin colour. The person would have to be play his politics along class lines and not ethic lines and then the ‘whites’ would understand where he/she was coming from - consequantly they would think of him as electable as a representative of their way of seeing the world.

      My way of thinking, things are decided by class not skin colour. If your walk, talk and think like an Englishman , you are an Englishman as it is state of mind. The English radar is finely tuned and can pick out a fake or some one trying too hard.

      And another thing - accent - you have to have a native British accent. Its what allows your fellow coutrymen to define you, and if you have an exotic accent, your class cannot quickly assertained.

      How far has the British identity gone to accommodate newer inhabitants of these isles or are they still seen as outsiders? What are the implications of this?

      For a nation that had the world at its feet, I would say it has gone along way to absorbing foreign inhabitants and being accomodating, but what I think sticks in the ‘native’ populations throat it when the newer inhabitants can’t let go of their country of origin as a source of their political guidance, to try and change the laws of this country.

      The consequance of having a “asian” PM? Its down to the individual and I doubt it would have anything to do with their “Asianess”. As an example - Maggie was a woman but the consequances for women in politics has not been altered a great deal.

      Justforfun

    23. Dalbir — on 9th April, 2008 at 8:10 pm  

      So you think any retention of cultural traits will make an individual an outsider to natives. Also to be excepted one would have to jettison their own cultural and basically mimic the indigenous people to extreme degrees. This goes to the extent of actually seeing the world through their eyes.

      I can see many people being unhappy with this.

      Appreciate your honesty though.

    24. justforfun — on 9th April, 2008 at 9:08 pm  

      So you think any retention of cultural traits will make an individual an outsider to natives.

      No - thats no what I meant - I should have elaborated. I used the word ‘politics’ rather than ‘culture’. I do beleive political traits have to be jettisoned and what is political and what is cultural - that is a debate. I would hazard a guess that a starting point would be - politics is about power and culture is about how one lives life in the personal realm. So power structures from ‘back home’ have to be jettisoned and the 3rd generation Asian has to swim in the power structures that exist here, be that in the family or public sphere. Anything else, the English don’t really give a damn what you do in private to yourself. So as an example family structures and the patriacal view is not possible now. In Victorian times the English would have agreed with ‘back home’ views, but this country has moved on.

      However I would add that there is not a finite amount of ‘cultural traits’ that one person can have. One does not have to jettison A to make room for B. A & B can be in the same person. However one cannot expect in a representative democracy for people who only have B, to elect someone who actively ingores aspect B in his own life and just sticks to A. But A+B would I think be electable.

      Yes many people might be unhappy with how you describe it but you veer to the extremes, when most people, especially the English, inhabit the grey area in the middle.

      justforfun

    Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

    Pickled Politics © Copyright 2005 - 2010. All rights reserved. Terms and conditions.
    With the help of PHP and Wordpress.