“But at the end of the day, what i would push for is the taking out of the power dynamic of pimps and prostitution rackets – and ‘brothels’ – if you see what i mean. if a person wants to get into the business of sex – that’s their business – but its the exploitation of such people – by their ‘bosses’ and enslavers – that’s the problem. And keeping it illegal only helps these criminals. (just like keeping weed illegal only helps the criminals – no one else).”

Exactly.

“I’d take the ‘whore’ element out of it, though, keeping the old ’shock horror, a whore’ kind of thing actually fuels all this, if you ask me.”

True enough- but I was using whore in the proper sense of the term, rather than as an insult.

“And they’re the ones who don’t give a damn if the person they are paying has been forced into it, or is being exploited, and that’s the problem, they are keeping up modern forms of slavery.”

That is the problem which I have with it too.These men should look at some of the poor wretches selling their bodies and wonder why they are doing it. They (the men) are morally bankrupt. I have no problem with the principle of selling your body for sex, but the reality is that many of the women who do so have no choice, either because they are forced into it, or because they need the money to feed their drug habit.

But i agree the problem with child trafficking for prostitiion obviously is worldwide but hotspots such as this, Thailand, etc should get attention. I read a

I feel like crying in agony after reading this.

my wider point really is that you still have problems with trafficking from poor parts to not so poor parts where clients will pay more. (ok im not talking just child trafficking anymore) modern slavery in the uk – is the trafficking of girls from eastern europe -for brothels here. So that’s what i was going on about the global nature of the problem. I personally have no problem with prostitution per se – i.e. the principle of someone paying for sex – but its the slavery aspect and the trafficking that i do have big problems with. if 2 individuals freely agreed to engage in consensual sex with money being offered i don’t think that’s my problem or anyone else’s. the issue is when people from poor parts of the world, or people who have no choice, get into it and are abused, frankly, by pimps and traffickers. If i were going to visit a prostitute, i’d never go in for keeping up such rackets. If one must pay for sex, try to ensure the person you’re paying is doing it out of their own free will and is keeping all the money!

But my wider question was about the demand for prostitutes in the first place – which goes to keeping up these kinds of rackets. Let’s look at how prosittution has changed for the average man – say here in the UK – from Victorian times to now. Back then, it was much more common – because if you were a bloke, and you wanted some experience, it would be quite common to visit a prostitute, because no ‘nice girl’ was going to have sex with you. Or not many anyway, and you wouldn’t know where to find them. Or if you were married, you might have a mistress, or visit a prostitute to have some ‘uncomplicated’ sex. I’d say nowadays, one can get uncomplicated sex much more easily without having to pay for it. Some people still like to pay for it of course, but it’s much less ‘needed’ if you see what i mean. the sexual revolution has changed the dynamics quite a bit.

The difficulty in a place like bangladesh – my living in Dhaka as a teenager opened my eyes quite a bit – is the similar divide of nice girls and bad girls – and the fact that a lot of young guys simply won’t be getting it from their girlfriends, and visiting prostitutes is actually very common.

i think those kinds of dynamics are important to keep in mind. But at the end of the day, what i would push for is the taking out of the power dynamic of pimps and prostitution rackets – and ‘brothels’ – if you see what i mean. if a person wants to get into the business of sex – that’s their business – but its the exploitation of such people – by their ‘bosses’ and enslavers – that’s the problem. And keeping it illegal only helps these criminals. (just like keeping weed illegal only helps the criminals – no one else)

offwhore – heh. i’d take the ‘whore’ element out of it, though, keeping the old ‘shock horror, a whore’ kind of thing actually fuels all this, if you ask me. What is very significant and usually not explored – is how society brands the person selling their body for sex with degrading type labels, but not the person who buys. and usually the person who is buying is also insulting the seller..’bitch!whore! which is ridiculous. a transaction goes both ways. you dont find weed buyers shouting at the seller and cursing them do you? both are complicit. Explore the psychology of who is paying for sex if you really want to get to the bottom of prostitution, is what i think. there are several categories, and some of them contain some pretty dodgy people. not all of course – some see it as a straightforward transaction, but there are some very dodgy people in the other categories..we will find i think.. and they’re the ones who don’t give a damn if the person they are paying has been forced into it, or is being exploited, and that’s the problem, they are keeping up modern forms of slavery.

But if you reduce poverty then supply will presumably drop, as less people will feel the need to sell children. Better law enforcement will reduce kidnapping. As for cutting demand, god only knows. Maybe legalisation of adult indoor brothels is the best option worldwide, with a regulatory body (Offwhore?).

rumbold, the poorer country thing – yes sure, money becomes more significant. but human life is cheap – which is perhaps more significant, when there are lots of children who can easily go missing – there is a very big problem there.
and human trafficking is also a globalized phenomenon – by that i mean that it crosses borders, and so demand anywhere, plus people hungry for money somewhere, means that it the problem doesn’t seem to be decreasing, but rather shifting in where it goes. the other question though – is why is the demand there, and what factors exacerbate that. if we think about this through history..

Of course, I’ve been ridiculously biased towards Johann Hari since he kicked Richard Littlejohn’s arse in a t.v. debate a while back. Just thought I’d declare my interest!

Amer, I’m Bengali, and have relatives who were very much on the anti-Pakistan side in ’71. However, I have to admit I’m dubious about the 2-3 million figure of the number of Bengalis killed by the Pak army and their Bengali-Bihari-Islmist allies. I understand this statistic is an exaggeration (although many many innocents were undoubtedly killed). Anyway, that’s probably for another thread.

“Interesting phrasing there – are there any children anywhere who actually wanted to be prostitutes?”

Oops. Now corrected.

“The deeply difficult question is – and the root of the problem of course is – the demand of course.”

Especially in poorer countries, where if you have people willing to pay then there will be some who will kidnap children for money.

“Bangladeshi children who don’t want to be prostitute”

interesting phrasing there – are there any children anywhere who actually wanted to be prostitutes?

The deeply difficult question is – and the root of the problem of course is – the demand of course.