“with her parents in the happy knowledge that they’ve managed to rid themselves of their burden”

I doubt in this case, she is viewed as a burden (if that was the case, when even bother with a NRI, surely there are plenty of local men to ‘dump’ their daughters on?), the more likely case is either:

(a) Parents are looking for a route to emigrate themselves (as per my comments above)

or, (b) Have the mistaken belief that they’ve done their daughter a favour by sending her abroad

with a bit of (c) have some false sense of pride in having a NRI son in law.

yes, absolutely.

“I have been astonished by some comments I have heard from my wife’s friends, many of whom operate under the touchingly blithe assumption that marriage certificate = visa”

aint that the truth. and never mind just marriage certificate, lots of people seem to think if they even know someone who lives ‘abroad’, (or someone knows someone who knows someone!) they will go and say, ‘bring me to amrica!’ or wherever. in the same way people say, give me a job. Ridiculous. Of course, it is part of the wider problem of expecting others to do things for you, and not standing on one’s own feet, and accepting individual responsibility, and that it will come down to you yourself, and not because you’re related to x y or z, or know x y and z. the end of nepotism basically – and its a big shift in thinking.

yes attitudes in the indian subcontinent towards immigration need a major reality check, and it affects the lives of many people.

as you say maidmarian, for people who actually have genuine marriages with foreign citizens, there is already lots of bureuacracy, some very high fees (increasing all the time as well..good way of making money..) and absolutely no ‘guarantees’ of anything. {i know a couple who had to get to appeal stage before the wife could come over from Hong Kong, they were lucky in the end, my friend was just about to get ready to move over there.}

I also don’t know why so many people assume the marital bond is so significant in the eyes of nation-states. in emergency crisis situations, this always comes to the fore. who is a citizen who isn’t, evacuations etc. embassies saying they will help family member who is a citizen of their country, but not the spouse/other family members who turn out to be citizens of different countries. Humanitarian reasons demand they overlook the rules, and actually the rules are citizens are the ones we help. In many cases, family members who arent citizens are helped, but that is the m actually going out of their way, when they have been able to. i remember the story of a british woman which got into the newspapers after the tsunami, because her husband was swedish, and the High Commission made a fuss about helping him too, when they should be helping other british citizens, and she was like but he’s my husband you have to help him! and the newspapers were outraged. Outrageous yes, but surprising no. During the Iraqi invasion of kuwait, there was a lot of this stuff happening when the Americans and Brits evacuated their citizens right at the start, and lots of families had various nationalities within the family. Marriage doesn’t mean an awful lot to countries, some pay more lip service than others, but the regulations are there, and there are never any guarantees.

Anyhow, the real problem is – as people are pointing out – what the elders are upto, and what they are forcing the youngsters into. the way i see it, this is forced marriage, and the spouses are being left behind. perhaps they wouldn’t be in such a good position if they’d managed to go wherever it was, anyway. but the main thing is, paying money to marry someone is fucked, having your family think you’ve been ‘abandoned’ is bad, and them trying to send you somewhere you probably don’t want to go in the vulnerable way they are sending you. And the other thing people seem to forget is this – even if your husband/wife sponsors you to come over, you only get 2 years visa in the first instance. And in the meantime, if the marriage breaks down, husband/wife doesn’t sign the forms for indefinite leave to remain, that’s it. A very silly way to immigrate if you ask me, because basically you are at the mercy of your husband/wife.

A (thankfully small) part of my job is to help people from overseas pick up the pieces after failed attempts at immigration. I see similar stories over and over again.

I don’t know about Canada but some societies, especially on the sub continent, seem to have a view that the UK is a place where the streets are paved with gold, jobs are plentiful and immigration is easy. In my experience many are genuinely shocked by the reality and get hit extremely hard.

I don’t know if this is a hangover from days gone by or a social thing or something else but the, ‘at all costs,’ sentiments you identify wrecks lives.

Of course, the article is at the extreme edges of this and better education is really necessary.

http://thespec.com/specialsections/section/Poison

The really sad part of this whole episode is that not only did the father of one of the Punjabi girls that was married and subsequently killed by Sukhwinder Dhillon, consider marrying to him his second daughter (allegded he wasn’t aware of the murder and had put it down to illness), when Dhillon was finally brought to trial (for various murders), this chap (the Father) even went on to falsely testify to support Dhillon, who had strung him on with the same promises of being able to move to Canada.

Whilst this case is perhaps extreme in its events and hence we can deem it (i.e. the polygamous murderer) isolated, the attitudes of various other individuals concerning the “immigration to Canada at all costs” is worrying and with due respect to MaidMarian, cannot be overlooked in the current climate.

Ireally hope that comment gets as wide a reading as is possible, because it is superb.

My British passport does not exempt me or anyone I know from immigration law. My wife’s shiny new passport does not exempt her family from immigration law. That message has to reach the families mentioned in the article.

I have been astonished by some comments I have heard from my wife’s friends, many of whom operate under the touchingly blithe assumption that marriage certificate = visa. That is simply not true and the process, PPR or not, is tough and offers no guarantees. This is main reason I took umbrage at gibberish spouted by Ashik. I went to the then IND office, paid high fees and demonstrated my relationship was genuine with a file of tightly prescribed documentary evidence about four inches thick. I did not demonstrate the ‘primary purpose’ because neither I nor anyone else can demonstrate a negative.

I should also add Sonia that your final paragraph of post 20 is outstanding. It is not the role of government to indulge these families or indeed legislate for stupidity. Probably the education side could be improved (the immigration guidance is terrible and very legalistic) but beyond that the process has already made it hard enough for us genuine UK cases.

I wish you well.

Under which legal system?

Those elders need something to do. Day and night, these uncles and aunties sit with endless cups of tea and gossip, stick their noses into people’s businesses, and plot the ruination of their children’s futures.

Someone give them something to do!

why should all individuals who have foreign spouses suffer because of idiotic arranged marriage family scenarios in the indian subcontinent. one might as well suggest outlawing marrying anyone who is not British.

but there is another issue to this story – that actually, as it currently stands, one might marry someone who is not British, and try one’s best to have them come to Britain to live with one, assuming said person is not in the country already. However, that is not guaranteed – really – it is still upto immigration officials – at the end of the day.

So the problem seems to me more complicated – that people are marrying off their children to people, assuming that it is automatic – that their kids will have the ‘right’ to whoosh off to wherever it is. And that they can just pay money to person x and boom there you go.

Obviously they are going to be subject to immigration control, and the premise is your spouse says – this is my partner, i want them to come live with me. if they don’t come forward and say that – what is any government going to do? force them?

Just because you’ve paid up your 60,000 dollars isn’t going to change that, or guarantee your spouse is going to play ball. Clearly what everyone needs is more education about immigration. And a social campaign is obviously needed here. The real problem is with dowries, and marrying your kids off to strangers, whom YOU don’t know anything about. How can you expect governments to do your marriage screening for you? Documentation to prove someone is single – ? Perhaps in the case of Britain, prospective families need to know about records in Somerset House – they can look it up easily, or get friends in the UK to look it up. Documentation to prove someone has a job? well don’t marry someone if you’re not satisfied! what is the suggestion – that the governments have to issue letters saying ‘this person is employed’..i hereby confirm. I’m sorry, but governments have better things to do – which they aren’t doing very well. If people want to marry their kids off, they’d better do the leg work themselves – rule no. 1 – don’t send them to a foreign country, to marry someone you’ve never heard of, where you don’t know anyone who can’t check on that person for you.

“yes it shouldn’t be about whether the victim is male or female, it is the same situation regardless of gender/. there are plenty of cases of ‘ghar-jamais’ where families buy husbands for their daughters, with the same prize dangled – a passport.”

Excellent point. While it is women who suffer the most, people forget that the men involved have not necessarily chosen their situation either.

if there is anything anyone can do, its more on a social level, like name and shame – for short term – etc. long-term, the problem lies in the family expectations of gain from marriage, which is much more deep-seated.

It delights me no end to know that my wife’s brother will have the opportunity to be turned down at appeal as well as at first application – an opportunity we would not be able to avail ourselves of had my wife not naturalised.

Funny thing is that he wants to see Big Ben.