Yet no EU state will utter a word of condemnation against fellow Europeans like the Israelis and most websites and blogs are terrified to criticise.

Will the organisers of this blog bring up this very human issue for a calm discussion? Let them demonstrate some moral courage.

This is a classic example of victimhood mentality, that statement you made so casually oozes of the stuff. There is no ‘orgy of hate’ against ‘muslims’, there is ‘concern’ about extremists. There is a huge difference there but some people would just love to mix that up.

Can anyone seriously say Obama’s chances of getting elected are dented by this picture, no seriously? in the slightest? I certainly don’t feel that, the media doesn’t feel or communicate that, only you and Naomi Klein forever creating special interest groups would like to believe this.

I don’t know or particularly care what Naomi Klein thinks or does, since when is she an authority on anything, if she wants to perpetuate this myth and make lots of conspiracy theorists happy then that’s her call.

Everyone should speak for themselves, as I said be fore in modern societies this constant talk of muslim and non muslim doesn’t make much sense to me. There has be a discourse beyond narrow religious identity after all we are individuals here.

I am truly fed up of people rationalising it away.

Do you really think the Obama in the dress was leaked because it made him look extremist, or was it because it gave just enough of a hint?

Do you think Naomi Klein is playing kindergarten politics? Is she a closet-muslim?

And should muslims have to rely on non-muslims to speak out on their behalf?

And explain to me what victimhood is? No really..

All societies have racists and bigots within them, it will be mistake to presume this minority’s hatred is representative of the how the vast majority feel or to classify the majority’s response to extremists as illegimate or bigotry. So don’t mix them up.

This is kindergarten politics, if extremists can get muslims on their side by manufacturing this global conspiracy against them then they can create and environment of distrust, shift the basis of discussion as us against them and generate hatred against all non muslims to forward their bigoted cause.

“I don’t think you need a huge conspiracy, just the levers of power, and a compliant media.”

I agree. As for your (rhetorical) question about whether Muslims were always so dislked, I would say that the current situation is a product of September 11th. However, since Muslims (as well as Jews and Catholics) have been part of British history for a while, there was some Islamaphobia before.

hes quite inspiring and i really hope he gets the candidacy and the presidency, (but dont beleive its going to happen). Remember this is the same country that allowed that starved iraq for most of the 90s and destroyed 2 countries recently.

I agree in the current climate it would jeopardise Obama’s electability. And it should be a call on all the candidates and not just Obama. My point is much much deeper.

I would be very disappointed if Obama does not get elected. Only if he is elected will we see a reversal of policy which drives this hate.

Clinton will not and is not capable; McCain’s policies will require deepening of the hate.

OK.

But you have to see the ‘orgy of hate’ as a political tool aimed at someone who is not, actually, a Muslim.

This is wheels within wheels. If Obama comes out and says what you, and Naomi want him to say, where will his electability be?

And why are you asking Obama? Why are you not asking McCain and Clinton?

So, I do think you are mistaken, or relativist at least.

Bed-time.

The orgy of hate is to do with muslims, not Obama. That hate in turn will turn people against Obama. This what I think the article is saying.

It makes a more fundamental point – and that is an appeal to Obama (and presumably others in a position) to tackle Islamophobia head on.

Unless I am mistaken of course.

Would it be too difficult to point out that the King of Jordan, who was an ally in Gulf War One, is, in fact, King Hussein of Jordan. Or is that still too much?

I do not understand Americans.

‘Naomi Klein The Guardian, Saturday March 1 2008

It’s no slur to be called a Muslim
The turban photos affair was a missed chance for Obama. If he really is to repair the world, he must tackle this Islamophobia

The orgy of hate that is the “Muslim smear” is unfolding in real time, and it promises to greatly intensify in a general election.’

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/01/religion.islam

Not so much before 9/11 and 7/7.

Is there some kind of imaginable world you can describe where those events had a radically different consequence than in this one?

If anything, I would say the potential for things having been worse is rather larger than that for better.

There are so many issues around what seems to be a very narrow topic:

‘an opportunity to bash a disliked minority and take it.’

Was it always disliked? And have people sat back and allowed the bandwagon to gather speed to near terminal velocity?

If it was always disliked does that make it an irrational fear or hatred – is there inherent islamophobia in the west, in the UK?

What would that say about the country? What does it say about you and me?

You can consider these questions rhetorical, as on the whole I am so deeply disappointed with it all.

“Isn’t that how propaganda and demonisation works?

Come on Rumbold you are in danger of rationalise this away.”

My point is that it is not some huge conspiracy to demonise Muslims. Rather, people see an opportunity to bash a disliked minority and take it. I am not trying to defend it or rationalise, but merely state what I think the situation to be.

‘while most are just jumping on the bandwagon.’

Isn’t that how propaganda and demonisation works?

Come on Rumbold you are in danger of rationalise this away.

Having studied history a bit as well I’d say the Jewish people in Muslim lands were until about 100 years ago much better off in Muslim areas that even Europe. I still think Israel has much more to gain from peace than it does war, in trade alone it would do so well.

BB – I am shocked at your comment in 2 as most of the people I meet always speak of the good community relations.

i’m not saying there weren’t good community relations, i’m just saying it wasn’t on a basis of equality and real mutual respect as we would expect in a liberal democracy, but more in a vein of (usually) good-natured contempt. basically, it all went to shite in the 1920s and 30s when the arab nationalists started admiring fascism, which led directly to the baghdad farhud among many other persecutions and, since 1948, it’s all been completely tits. it was rarely complete roses in any event – take the laws about ritual impurity that the iranian shi’a used to observe as regards contact with jews, for one thing. you should hear the way some of the arabic-speaking old guard talk about arabs, sheesh.

There was an interesting article on Arab speaking Jews on the BBC News website which was completely contrary to what you say regarding Iran, Iraq and Egypt.

well, i don’t mean to be cynical, but i’d take that with a bit of a pinch of salt, i dare say it suits the bbc to maintain that the jews of arab lands weren’t ever oppressed, but historians are a bit more balanced about it.

anyway, i like to emphasise the positive, i just don’t believe in rose-coloured glasses where it comes to the jews of islam – the best you can say is that they were better off there than they were under christianity at least until the enlightenment. after that it was a different story.

mosque events for islam, no, i’ve never needed to, i have pretty high-powered muslim friends in both theological and educational senses and i read quite extensively, but i’ve been to mosques to take part in sufi zhikrs and attended salat prayers and other educational events at conferences.

b’shalom

bananabrain