No. But I do consider high ranking members of the IDF who are directly involved in the illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as such.

I wasn’t being hesitant, I was asking for evidence. I suppose a rhetorical question will have to do.

You do consider all members of the IDF as terrorists? That’s all I asked.

The man was plainly evil and evaded justice.

Why did the Catholic Church in West Germany help him escape?

Again we have the two in Bosnia who are wanted and although well hidden surely people should have a concience to turn them in.

Would you be similarly hesitant about labelling a high ranking member of the mafia or of al-qaeda in Iraq a cold blooded murderer. Fact is the guy was involved at a very high level in a brutal and bloody illegal occupation of another country, an occupation that has maintained itself through terrorist tactics.

Yes, we are in the same camp. Our differences are just about means, not ends.

I agree with you that the fact they had Mengele banged up and that he managed to switch identities, doesn’t look to tricky from 2008, but you have to remember that Europe, and particularily Germany in 1945 was a wasteland. It seems that he managed to slip through the net by claiming to be dead.

I think you are quite right in saying that quite a few bigger targets escaped to South America. Hopefully, and I always try to be hopeful, the spread of the jurisdiction of the ICC to more and more countries will mean that there is no hiding place for scum like Mengele.

The US ought to get it’s act sorted out, though. It is their exceptionalism that fuels a lot of anti-American sentiment. Mine included.

Incidentally, the converse is also true. If someone is kidnapped from a country – via, say, bounty hunters – to the USA, then the Courts there will still try the person with whatever charge they were seeking them on. Wild West, or what!

West Germany issued an arrest warrant in 1959, which is a shocking period to wait to issue an arrest warrant. 14 years after the war ended. He should have been strung up by his testicles at that point.

In 1945 he was arrested by the allies but released when he used papers from another doctor. So obviously the Allies didn’t take finding him seriously in my opinion.

Either way the USA is subverting justice for itself and its allies and this is nothing short of a scandal.

In the case of Mengele, Mossad was too slow in reacting to the many Nazi’s living in South America. They got Eichman but many others got away so Mossad failed in this mission. In the early 1950′s many of these scum lived very openly in South America.

Also I have always wondered why the Peron’s are held in such high regard when they sheltered these people.

Mengele escaped justice. He was on the Allies radar as a war criminal, but they believed him to be dead. Had they known otherwise, I’d assume there would have been a manhunt for him. When it later transpired he was alive, and given the lack of extradition treaties, MOSSAD went after him.

I too am in favour of prosecuting war criminals, preferably in an an International Court. I am completely against the summary justice that the USA hands out, and that includes rendition, which is simply outsourcing torture.

You are right to say that the USA refuses to recognise the ICC. Which is a flip flop of the first order as the USA were amongst its strongest proponents in the early days of it’s gestation. Indeed the USA did sign the treaty and then walked away from that.

The Bush administration has gone further than that by subverting signatories by means of carrots and sticks, so that they are expected to ‘not apply’ the treaty to US citizens. A bilateral watering down, if you will. The EU has told them to stuff it, but weaker countries have not.

It would be an interesting question to put to the three main candiates still standing for POTUS whether they would reaffirm the USA’s earlier good intentions re the ICC or not.

I am all for bringing anyone who has committed a war crime to justice.

The point is that Zionist Groups often ask for warrants against Palestinains and everyone considers this acceptable. When the Palestinians do it it isn’t considered ok.

Also please bare in mind that the Judge is independant and looks at the merits of the application and then decides. In this case the Judge decided there was a case to answer.

Also Douglas with respect with the USA and Israel being above International Law – seriously what hope do you have that those comitting acts contrary to international law will be brought to justice?

The USA is a corrupt world policeman and will never allow any Israeli Official to be brought to trial. It will never allow a settlement according to international law. So how can you seriously hope for an international court to bring peopel to justice.

As an example in Italy a man is kidnapped by the CIA and rendered to another country for torture and not a single CIA official is ever tried.

In the UK flights have landed and the UK Authorities haven’t been told and they accept this.

For what went on in Iraq was justice served? No. Those responsible got away with it and have never been tried. The people at the bottom brought to trial got light sentences.

In addition it is worth noting that in Israel it is much the same.

I would highlight the case of Joseph Mengiele, did you know that after the war it was over 5 years, possibly even 10 years before an arrest warrant was issued and the Catholic Church in Germany helped the scumbag escape justice. His son visited him but he was never brought before a court? Where the hell was local or international justice?

This is the stupidity of the system. I mean come on this man was total scum and he was free to live in Germany for over 5 years after the war. That is crazy.

Have things changed for the better. Slightly but these issues shouldn’t be about a particular country be it the USA, UK or Israel or Iran etc. It should be about justice being the over riding factor and it shouldn’t matter as long as justice is done.

I am all for bringing Israeli and Palestinains who have committed war crimes to trial anywhere in the world in a fair system.

Thank you for your well considered response.

I asked a question. That is all I did.

Now, that more of the background has come out on this thread, I will tell you how I see it.

I am not entirely happy with the idea that there should be complete freedom to apply for a warrant, to be honest with you.

My hope, which has subsequently been dashed, was that the request for the warrant had come from some body with international jusrisdiction, the ICC for instance. Had that been the case, then I would have been one of the folk backing the claim that there had been dereliction.

It seems very odd to me that individuals, or groups of individuals, can approach a court directly asking it to effect a criminal warrant, which it must have been for the police to be involved. What the hell is the CPS for, if it not to decide what we proceed with and what we don’t?

I am not against people attempting to bring others to justice. I just think that, perhaps they should present their evidence to the CPS, in exactly the same way as the Police are obliged to do. That would remove vexatious litigants.

Indeed, it would be a far more transparent system. If the CPS thought there was a case to answer, then it is unlikely we’d have had the politicians running as roughshod over the judicial system as they appear to have done in this case.

Incidentally, I think I am with Rumbold as far as British jurisdiction is concerned. If there were a case to be answered, for me, it’d have to be in front of an International Court, not a British Court.

That, Avi, is what I think.

The question is not so much about this one case, but of the precedent it sets. If someone commits a crime on British soil, then arrest them. If you think that someone should not be let into the country, don’t let them in. But don’t wait until they come to the UK to raise money to help mentally handicapped children before trying to arrest them for alleged crimes not even commited in this country.

If the law says anyone can ask for the warrant then what is that to do with you?

A legal warrant was issued and the Police refused to obey. So they should be sacked.

An independant judge reviewed the request and issued the warrant.

There are serious issues here which I raised here on PP sometime back:

The Police refused to enforce a legal warrant.

The Govt of Blair and backed by a man who is now in charge of Justice actually apologised at the time for issuing the warrant. If the law is the law why the hell did Blair and Straw apologise?

Melanie Phillips complains about Muslims not being loyal well what about this now? Why isn’t the loyalty being questioned here?

A legal warrant was issued and someone – we don’t know who – snitched and is most liekly still in their job.

More disturbing is Scotland Yard don’t care.

So a whole host of issues.

Daniel Machover, acting as attorney for the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights.

Check Marvin’s link, it’s interesting.

So who did, and why?

Yeah, best of luck with that strawman Marv. Not this Western leftist anti-war person.

Cold blooded murderer? Is there evidence for that, or is it enough that he is a member of IDF?

Almog is also the father of a son with severe autism and mental retardation. He is the founder of Aleh Negev, which provides residential, medical and social services to the handicapped of southern Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doron_Almog

Also, after all the outcry over Qaradawi, who lest we forget wasn’t a cold blooded murderer like this guy (you can’t tell me he was a major general in an illegal terroristic occupation and not a terrorist, the only following orders line is just bullshit), why was this dude even being invited into the country at the behest of an Israeli charity in the first place?