Fight the BK ice cream ban


by Al-Hack
25th November, 2005 at 9:21 pm    

Remember the infamous BK cone episode we first highlighted on Pickled Politics a few months ago? Because the design of the swirl, when tilted and seen when high on weed, vaguely resembled the Arabic word Allah, one man started his personal jihad backed up by Eastern Eye newspaper.

Guess what? Now they’re trying to put pressure on the chain by rustling up quotes from the usual suspects. Here is the Eastern Eye newspaper article in full, published in this week’s newspaper.

Burger King (BK) has been slammed for not removing ice-cream cones that offend Muslims from being sold in Asian areas.

Back in September, the American fast-food chain had assured its Muslim customers that it would be amending the design of its packaging (pictured) “in the near future” after customer Rashad Akhtar found it resembled the word Allah in Arabic, at a Park Royal branch.

At the time, the Muslim Council of Britain praised BK for its “sensitive” and “prompt” action.

But two months on, EE was able to buy the cones with the same packaging in outlets in the Asian areas of Harrow, Wembley and Brick Lane.

The packaging was also available at its branch on Tottenham Court Road, an area popular with Asian clubbers on weekends.

And BK now says it will not be until February that the packaging will be dumped. Anas Al-Tikriti is a spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain.

Mr Al-Tikriti said: “One of the problems we regularly face is that when a consumer complains to a large company, which is able to make rapid changes, they make a cheesy statement but fail to act with speed. They will be seen to be an insincere company.”

The deputy leader of Tower Hamlets Council, Cllr Abdus Shukur (Lab), is shocked that BK continue to use the packaging at its eatery near Brick Lane considering how many Muslims live and work there.

Cllr Shukur said: “If they said they were going to remove the packaging, they should have done it by now. If people find it offensive, then they should simply change the packaging because they are losing business.”

Asian customers are not impressed. Student Miriam Hussain, 17, of Balham, South London, said: “They should have sorted this out when they found out. It feels like they do not care that they have offended us.”

A spokesman for Burger King said: “As a result of the feedback we received, we amended the design. However, the size of our supply chain means that in some restaurants, cones with the old design have remained in circulation.”

Instead of campaigning about something serious, or even an issue worthwhile, we have an obsession with these pet issues, which only give the impression that a hyper-sensitive Muslim community wants to change everything about Britain. Isn’t it time we stood up to this sort of media manipulation?

Complain or write to Burger King UK, or ring their helpline on: 0845 728 7437. If anyone has an email address too for them, let us know.


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  1. Soniyeh — on 25th November, 2005 at 9:25 pm  

    It’s people like this that give Muslims a bad name.

  2. Al-Hack — on 25th November, 2005 at 9:29 pm  

    Burger King “slammed” by one councillor happy to get publicity, the Muslim Association of Britain (surprise surprise!) and one student.

    That sure is representative!

  3. Jez — on 25th November, 2005 at 9:58 pm  

    The initial post on this was pickep up by a few commentators, including the infamous Mark Steyn, who failed to give PP any credit. To copy, paste and rephrase pp, then to make himself out to be a defender against multiculturism and islamism, is just criminal !

  4. j0nz — on 25th November, 2005 at 10:18 pm  

    Failed to give PP credit for what? Sunny you got the story from the Sun right?

  5. j0nz — on 25th November, 2005 at 10:25 pm  

    It’s so annoying they didn’t ask any of you guys for comment, only people who were ‘offended’.

  6. Juan Golblado — on 25th November, 2005 at 10:26 pm  

    Ooops!

    Well, I guess there’s demonization and then there’s demonization, innit!

    I just ran across this long analysis of the work of Tariq Ramadan which I thought might be of interest and is perhaps not entirely off topic here.

  7. Tanvir — on 25th November, 2005 at 10:33 pm  

    why make a LONGGG thing even longer….
    just out of curiosity… did anyway ask BK where they got the design idea from/ why ?

    they made the choice to take it off…. now you wana boycot them BECAUSE they took it off!?

    Reason (A)
    Now if they had actually set out to use a religious symbol… of a faith which has a few well-sensitive followers…i reckon it was quite stupid of them.

    Reason (B)
    Now if by COINCIDENCE…they used a symbol…that vaguely resembled a religious symbol…then they could just say it wasnt mean to say allah anyway and be done with it..and the moaners should shut up.

    See i dont know whose campaign is bigger at the moment… those who are trying to kerb ‘islamaphobia’ and sometimes taking it to extreams….. or those who are campaigning against the extreams and also in thier own way taking it too far and almost using it as a cover for a campaign to shove ultra-secularism/keeping religion just for token down the throats of all Muslims….kind of sending out the message that following thier religion is all wrong…it is only acceptable to follow their religion by calling themselevs Muslim (after british, and after their locality and maybe local neighbourhood). The haters slyly jump onto these bandwagons too..

  8. jamal — on 25th November, 2005 at 10:42 pm  

    “..Instead of campaigning about something serious, or even an issue worthwhile…”

    Isnt it a bit hypocritical to complain/campaign about those wanting to get rid of the design whilst whinging to keep the design!

    ..not that im surprised at this coming from al-hack crap

  9. Al-Hack — on 25th November, 2005 at 10:47 pm  

    Tanvir you ain’t seriously suggesting that BK chose that design just to piss off Muslims? That would be even more stupid than the banned piggy banks story.

    Jamal not really. BK should not be changing the design just because one fool with too much time on his hands decided that it was his “personal Jihad”. That will only open the door to more such sillyness which makes it worse for ordinary Muslims who, unlike you, don’t get uptight over everything.

  10. PhatBoy — on 25th November, 2005 at 11:01 pm  

    To me it looks like a tasty (read: tastes like cardboard) ice cream…..

    to quote a much smarter man than i…

    “I know i shouldnt eat thee… but…

    *eats*

    mmmmm….Sacreligious” – Homer J. Simpson.

    I’m in agreement with al-Hack… if muslims genuinly have something to complain about, i’m all for it… but you’re not being persecuted because an ice cream looks very, very vaguely like it has the word “Allah,” on it…

    when you’re squinting…

    whilst jumping up and down…

    and kind of cocking your head at a 45 degree angle…

    and humming the thunderbirds theme…

    (seriously, try it)

  11. Sunny — on 25th November, 2005 at 11:23 pm  

    Oh man, I can’t believe this is still going on! It was stupid to begin with, and now EE keep adding to that stupidity.

    To clarify, I first found out through a friend who saw it in the Sun on a Thursday. The following day Eastern Eye had the full story (though they go print on a Tuesday so its likely they started all this).

    I think the point Jez makes about Mark Steyn is that these so called commentators think they are the only ones annoyed by these kind of silly stories. The policy of multi-culturalism is given a bad name by these people and then people like Steyn and Phillips use it to flog their own agenda.

    Tanvir – interesting statement. So you feel that everytime someone argues against such excesses, then they’re pandering to Islamophobia and thus making things worse? I’m not surprised such thinking exists, but its as convulted as saying we should not point the finger at racist or sexist Asians because that allows others to use it for their agenda.

    I’m not fussed about the BNP, but I don’t wallow in a victim mentality either. If there are fools then they should be ridiculed IMO and not be allowed to fester just because they have their own agenda. By your thinking we should sit here quietly then and let the fanatics shout and scream without any checks or balances. I’m sorry but thats not how we work here. See the “about us” section.

    If you think that Burger King’s actions attack or are designed to ridicule Islam then of course I’d like to hear the basis for that.

    Juan – I read the first few points and again, its full of assumptions. It seems to be that people want to hear what they want to. To make up your mind, go hear Ramadan speak. I have and until I hear something contradictory or something I don’t like, I will stay as a fan.

  12. Jez — on 25th November, 2005 at 11:50 pm  

    I think you have to look at the bk logo at a 90 degrees angle clockwise ( i.e. the picture is not the right way up) and the swirl vagely looks like a cone. I only just worked it out – I think that deserves a smiley face sticker.

  13. Fe'reeha — on 26th November, 2005 at 12:50 am  

    Am I missing a point here?
    What is the news about?
    Seems like newspapers and reporters are jumping at anything which could blacken some space. And more than that, I am surprised at MAB. Why are they falling to bait.
    First of all writing Allah in Arabic is not a symbol as Tanvir points out. It’s just a word, which is one the most commonly used names out of 99 names by which God has been referred to in the Quran.
    Some other names are Rahman (One who forgives), Qahaar (one who punishes) and Wudood (One who loves) etc. None of these names are symbols in anyway, and the general trend of wearing the name around the neck or in any other form is just commercialisation, it does not hold anything “spiritual”.
    It’s what you “do” what matters. So if the word Allah is written somewhere, it’s basically just a word.
    It does not require Muslims to bend backwards or forwards after looking at the name. And even if the cones tops do look like the name of Allah, so what? Aren’t Muslims supposed to say Bismillah (starting in the name of God) before eating anyway? If anything, they should thank BK for reminding them to say Allah before eating.
    Who are these people getting offended by this, and why? Who has time to do all this?

  14. DE — on 26th November, 2005 at 1:06 am  

    The most relevant thing is that the product is crap. In fact, thats the only relevant thing..

  15. Tanvir — on 26th November, 2005 at 1:59 am  

    I dont think for one minutre Burger King wanted to offend Muslims!

    First off all, the two possibilities I put forward for the explanation of what happened, were just two hypothesises!

    What i wanted to know myself is, whether they used the symbol, cos they thought it would look good, and just ignore about the possible outcry it could cause from a few people NoTE: that i referred to them as over-sensitive earlier, suggesting i dont agree with that kind of thinking..

    Anyway…since you guys are all speculating my personal stance just because i wanted to illustrate the different opinions across the board… i may as well tell you.

    I dont think BK wanted to offend muslims, knowing what the Arabic writing of Allah was, because it doesnt really look like it anyway. So the subsequent protest was a waste of time, it would be better protesting against animal rights abuses or racism…all of which are causes very Islamic, but very ignored by this very narrow-thinking Islamic community that resides in the UK.

    The exact reasons why BK dropped the logo, is known by BK itself, has anyone been officialy told why the dropped it? Has anyone gone to find out (this thread may be totally irrelevant depending on the answer). THey might have even gotten bored by the design… I can imagine 20 years down the line…. BK wants to change their ice-cream logos…we’ll find Al-Hack organising nationwide demos against Islamists.

  16. Sunny — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:13 am  

    Some say: It’s not harming anyone.
    On it’s own it isn’t harming anyone per se. But at the same time the status quo is not harming anyone either, except the sensibilities of one person who has made it his personal jihad. Others have since jumped on the bandwagon for their own publicity.

    It will also be used by others to say that things like (a) Muslims cannot compromise (b) they are fanatics willing to start a jihad over anything (c) we cannot co-exist with them… blah blah.

    Many of these people may just hate Muslims anyway and want to use it as an excuse to grind their axe, but enough such examples and many many people will start believing this tripe.

    When we have stupid stories like the banned piggy bank and Lambeth council changing ‘christmas lights’ to ‘winter lights’ because they think some people (meaning Muslims) may be offended (although they didn’t ask I’m sure the MAB would be happy to say it was an encouraging step or something) – then we have a problem.

    People are starting to believe some of this rubbish because they honestly believe Muslims are so hyper-sensitive that anything can set off a personal jihad. We can’t live in a bubble and say “so what?”. We’re living in a society together whether compromise from both sides has to take place. Forget respect, then even tolerance turns into suspicion and intolerance.

    Do we all not have responsibilities as citizens of this country, or is only the majority supposed to compromise? This isn’t even about appeasement because this silly controversy has no basis at all. It’s a word in Arabic. That’s it. People write in on pieces of paper sometimes that eventually get thrown away or recycled. Others wear it around their necks.

    The people who’re following up controversy think that being a good Muslim means constantly guarding over anything that may be seen as a religious symbol. Being a good person, not having pride, respect, love for others etc has gone out of the window. It’s replaced with anger and hatred of others becase you automatically assume they’re out to get you.

    This is as silly as that controversy over the Hindu stamp. Grrr..

    (btw DE – I quite enjoy reading your blog. Specially that post on the banning of pirate radio stations).

  17. sonia — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:31 am  

    how is what offends one nutty man offensive to ‘muslims’. What strange things you hear these days.. could this man not find anything else to campaign against???!!

  18. sonia — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:33 am  

    yes it was rather irresponsible of this Cllr bloke.. i think we could send him a note or 2 saying so.

  19. sonia — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:38 am  

    i think fe’reeha has a good point! they should be thanking bk! maybe this man was seeing signs everywhere..perhaps its the start of some conspiracy theory..

  20. sonia — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:39 am  

    tanvir you seem to miss the point that BK would have had no idea that anyone would look at it sideways and see ‘Allah’ written in arabic seeing as they most likely dont know any arabic…???

  21. Jeevan — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:42 am  

    it is just a symbol that’all. ido no why they are thaking this series.

  22. Col. Mustafa — on 26th November, 2005 at 2:05 pm  

    ehhhh, this issue is so lame.
    We should boycott Burgerking on the grounds that its SHIT FOOD.
    Try eating healthier food for a change, and stop munching on so many freaking BK icecreams that eventually you start seeing things.
    I bet you there sales for icecream actually went up in the process of this retarded matter.

    You probably got loads of hearsay about it, and loads of dumb muslims that actually went out and bought one to see for themselves.
    Yeh yeh, i gotta see how they offendin us…
    Lets beat up the BK staff as well, cos they sold it to us, INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIT.

  23. Refresh — on 26th November, 2005 at 2:14 pm  

    I can’t decide who are the bigger fools on this one. Eastern Eye or Pickeled Politics.

    We had the thread about the piggy banks, and saw how people jumped in – with all their assumptions.

    Then followed a thread which pointed to piggy bank and other stories which had been proven false (ie. made up) but the originals had already done the rounds globally. With that thread I thought sanity was finally coming through.

    So now we’re back again.

    Now I don’t know who is and who isn’t allowed to start threads here, but if its some sort of ad-hoc editorial board, then Sonny I would fire the lot of them.

    Either there is opportunism at work a-la The Sun, or there is a serious lack of understanding of what progressive politics might be.

    For example – I saw the news about the Bush proposal for bombing of al-Jazeera and thought hey this should be a useful one for Pickeled Politics – but no. NOTHING.
    But a story about Imperial College and their new rules on dress code.

    However we do get the bombing of al-Jazeera eventually, but only when Boris Johnson makes the story his. Why the wait – is it a case of finding staff or what?

    Back to the BK ice cream tub thing and Eastern Eye. Any one who has dealt with the press should know – that tabloids like EE – will want to MAKE stories rather than report the damn things. And how do you make them? Call some one up and ask for their reaction often to a hypothetical issue – preferably someone a lot more innocent than a mercenary tabloid hack- and just watch it roll.

    Worse – watch progressive blogs pick it up.

    On the ice cream issue itself – I can’t believe nobody points out when reporting – that the symbol is simply a stylised drawing of whipped ice cream, rotated 90 degrees.

    The fact that BK took it on and decided to change the style – more from a marketing point of view I suspect – it is entirely understandable that the supply chain would still have the stuff within it. This was the real Eastern Eye failing – not putting in a call to BK first.

    Throwing masses of food away would be the real crime. [without passing comment on BK products].

    This Eastern Eye would have easily ascertained if it so chose – from any who would know about Islam.

  24. Rohin — on 26th November, 2005 at 2:37 pm  

    “For example – I saw the news about the Bush proposal for bombing of al-Jazeera and thought hey this should be a useful one for Pickeled Politics – but no. NOTHING.
    But a story about Imperial College and their new rules on dress code.”

    Ummm…This came before the Imperial piece. Try getting your facts straight before launching into a diatribe. We welcome criticism. But normally only when it makes sense. Try taking a look at what we said about the BK label in the first place.

  25. Refresh — on 26th November, 2005 at 2:40 pm  

    Apologies for that – I should have checked.

    But the rest stands.

  26. Col. Mustafa — on 26th November, 2005 at 2:51 pm  

    Setting:

    A typically progressive muslim wedding taking place in Ilford TOWN HALL. hehehe

    Bengali gal marrying a white dude, and for desert thats right, for reasons left to the imagination they order Burger King icecream for everyone.
    Lets just say the brides brother likes dipping his wick into them.

    How many guests would notice, and what would they do when they did notice it?
    Probabaly nothing much would happen, people would hardly notice as its not important, and for the people that did, they wouldn’t make it very vocal as they would be seen as idiots.
    Majority of muslims dont give a toss, and the issue should just be left alone know.

    BurgerKing should do abit more research on people and thier demographic and realise that even if they keep the icecream cover as it is, it would make no difference to thier profits.
    Dont give into petty minded fools.

  27. Siddharth — on 26th November, 2005 at 2:59 pm  

    Will this non-story ever go away?

  28. Sunny — on 26th November, 2005 at 2:59 pm  

    No, the rest doesn’t actually stand.

    I realise that you’re a new reader here Refresh, but maybe you should form your opinions by reading our site and our stories a bit more properly.

    Do a search for stories Al-Hack has done for example, and it may give you an idea.

    Secondly, the Asian community and even the progressive liberals may not have one opinion on everything. We have our differences and we have our stances. I’m not here to dictate stances, only to make sure it all reads ok and is relevant to our readership.

    Thirdly is your ill-thought out idea that a progressive blog should not highlight anything which we may consider silly.

    Rubbish

    We highlight sexist, racist and homophobic attitudes by Asians here because we believe them to be wrong. So just because other racists/bigots may pick them up doesn’t mean we shouldn’t highlight and talk about the issue. All this has already been stated above.

    The naive attitude that “progressives” like yourself (and Jamal) have is that you keep highlighting issues that you care about (Bush, the war etc), but want to sweep under the carpet all the things too uncomfortable for you to deal with.

    Racist Asians? ‘Oh no, let’s not talk about that’. Sexism? ‘Oh stop pointing fingers at us, others are worse’. Stupidity by the so-called community leaders or the ethnic press – ‘no we don’t want to talk about it because then racists might use it for their own agenda’.

    So everyone else thinks all us Asians are like that. Sorry mate we don’t hide behind that victim mentality that you do. We are proud of our roots but we also want to take things forward and fight against social ills.

    The stupidity of our community leaders, ethnic media, self-styled personal jihadis etc all has to be highlighted and argued against otherwise we get nowhere. We get apologists like you who would prefer such things simply go away.

    I can’t believe nobody points out when reporting – that the symbol is simply a stylised drawing of whipped ice cream, rotated 90 degrees.

    No shit sherlock – and that is what makes this controversy all the more silly. Why don’t you write to the MCB, MAB and Eastern Eye to point this out, seeing as you reckon you’ve been working in politics for so long. Use your connections to make them see sense.

    Mustafa:
    We should boycott Burgerking on the grounds that its SHIT FOOD.
    Exactly. I hate BK anyway.

  29. Sunny — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:01 pm  

    And in fact Refresh we’ve written about that Al-Jazeera bombing twice now. Really, try reading a bit more before you make an “informed” comment.

  30. El Cid — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:17 pm  

    Lets just say the brides brother likes dipping his wick into them.
    Talking of silly stuff, what do you mean by this Col. Mustapha? In ice cream?? Each to their own…

  31. Col. Mustafa — on 26th November, 2005 at 3:28 pm  

    hehehe, just a silly comment. Dont take it seriously, but occasionally cold stuff turns me on. What can i say, vanilla, choclate, mmmm pistachio.

  32. Refresh — on 26th November, 2005 at 4:28 pm  

    Sunny, I think I’ve upset you – not intended.

    Challenging “sexist, racist and homophobic attitudes”
    amongst Asians – we are agreed. No question

    “We have our differences and we have our stances, I’m not here to dictate stances” – of course we do, no problem.

    “naive attitude that “progressives” like yourself ” – what really hurt here were the quotation marks, I can live with ‘naive’.

    Sweeping things under the carpet isn’t of any use to where we find ourselves. Making progress and getting results is of much more interest, hopefully the rest of the post will give you a sense of what I mean.

    By the way I’ve no idea who Jamal is – perhaps I have to read him up too.

    So in general I disagree with your perceptions of me and what I am talking about.

    The bottom line is this – there are real issues and there are silly ones.

    However some of the silly ones have a nasty twist to it. And I believe this happens to be one.

    As a progressive site – do you not think that there is a question of identifying the source and hopefully their agenda? Sometimes things aren’t what they seem.

    I am not opposed to covering uncomfortable issues. Quite the opposite.

    The fact that this thread and similar are on their third round – is what irritates. [Perhaps on careful reading I might find more]. I would rather hope an informed blog would account for that.

    How about a thread on how false information is being disseminated – and to what end? And how it becomes part of lore – and whether there are any retractions, and how effective these retractions are? And what of the impact on those at the sharp end?

    Also how about whether there is empowerment within these communities to seek retractions or right of reply. [Good to see the story about one 'victim' getting a settlement out of the Sun for being labelled 'fanatical terrorist'].

    Yes we may be agreed on many things (if only it would come through), the question I suspect is of how to move forward. A major one of course is the elderly leadership these communities have to carry. They are a burden.

    “Racist Asians?” Racism makes me extremely angry. Yes of course it needs to challenged, and challenged thoroughly. However I might refer to you the most recent entry on the site on the subject (http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/165) ‘Guilty of Racist Murder’. Horrified, and wanting to know more, I followed the story and discovered that the Judge did not accept that it was a racially motivated crime (Gang’s ‘drink fuelled rampage’: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4416988.stm).

    I suspect we all need to be careful – so much to read so little time.

    As for me contacting anyone at Eastern Eye – forget it, I’ve never patronised the paper and somehow don’t think I will. However if you disagree with my observation on how tabloids ‘make’ stories then just say.

    And finally, I take it since you can’t sack anyone do you allow others to join the board? I might consider it if you retract the quotation marks!

  33. nukh — on 26th November, 2005 at 7:24 pm  

    vikrant, i agree that my last bit was a bit extreme…it was on purpose.
    previously some of my more staid posts have been deemed offensive and summarily expunged…so i thought maybe upping the ante would do the trick
    my intention was to grab attention and urge the keepers of this [very relevant and at times cathartic ] blog to treat all its visitors equally. and if you censor one for a certain transgression real or perceived ….then i would except you to censor everybody across the board for similar transgressions…………
    i hope that the keepers of this blog raise to the occasion and do not sacrifice free debate on the altar of political incorrectness gone amuck.
    btw, if you are interested, do look up dante alighieri’s opinions on the religion of peace….

  34. nukh — on 26th November, 2005 at 7:27 pm  

    please excuse my english….as you may have discerned, it is not my native tongue.
    i meant to say political correctness and not incorrectness.

  35. Refresh — on 26th November, 2005 at 7:54 pm  

    Nukh,

    Deeply hurtful and to blame Dante for you being offensive is cowardly.

    At the same time it might be worth looking at what George Bernard Shaw has to say on the subject.

    If the post is removed then it should be on the basis that it will prove to be of great embarrassment to you. Perhaps you should request it be deleted. We can all have our moments of lucidity or madness.

    By the way when did Dante write and what knowledge do you think he would had, in his time?

    Here is a quote from a thesis on Dante’s Inferno, which is quite relevant:

    “The medieval view of Islam was a hostile one primarily based on fear and prejudice. The basis for this fear evolved from the belief that the Muslim religion posed a serious threat to Christianity’s existences for it gave Christianity some unwelcomed competition.”

    And of Dante himself:

    “Dante Alighieri was a conservative, devout Christian, as well as a strong representative of the attitude of his time.”

    For me Dante’s positon is understandable, it reflected attitudes of medieval times.

  36. Geezer — on 26th November, 2005 at 7:55 pm  

    Nukh from day one of the inception of this board you have come on hurling abuse at Muslims, so don’t use the argument that others are not censored so why am I argument….

    The second thing is that I recognise you from your “appearances” on Sunny’s other site [which you no doubt will deny] trying in vain to convince others that Islam is the “devils faith” which needs to be destroyed, and similarly like above adding in a volley of abusive language with everything you said which you lied about stating this was done deliberately when it is the norm for you. The ONLY thing to your credit is that you have not resorted to using multiple ID’s which you used to converse with yourself and create an illusion that your abusive ways had massive appeal.

    You really are a sad state of affairs….

    P.S You also got to stop using the, “English is not my native language” excuse for your piss poor command of the English language because it gives you away every time.

  37. El Cid — on 26th November, 2005 at 7:59 pm  

    Well now that that taboo has been broken and the people behind pickled politics have shown themselves willing to risk violence from the nutty jihad brigade, perhaps we can move on from the cycle of race/creed-based polemics. I don’t think such vicious language helps build bridges or understanding and I don’t suppose intelligent non-moslems think that Islamofascism can be faced down without the help of the wider moslem community. But then maybe I’ve turned soft…

  38. nukh — on 26th November, 2005 at 8:24 pm  

    geezer, i honestly have never posted under any other name. and i am not averse to sharing my name, which is nusrat khan…as i have mentioned earlier i was born into an indian family…of a muslim father and hindu mother…who one day realised the futility of religion and renounced his faith.
    and when it comes to religion, i take pride in being an equal opportunity critic, haranguer, etc.
    if you could see my writings on the anti muslim gujarat riots.or the anti sikh delhi riots…..maybe you would understand.
    i have always maintained that it is the closet extremists who are the first to feel offended by the critics of religion.

    that said, i only asked to be excused for typos in english and not for the thrust of my opinions, which i will stand by until the very end.
    if any of you wish to meet with me on your next trip across the pond,,,,feel free to let me know in advance….that way i could prove that i am not just a keyboard rabble rouser. but can raise rabble in person over a cup of java as well.

  39. Siddharth — on 26th November, 2005 at 8:34 pm  

    File under troll.

  40. Sunny — on 26th November, 2005 at 9:30 pm  

    Refresh:
    The fact that this thread and similar are on their third round – is what irritates. [Perhaps on careful reading I might find more]. I would rather hope an informed blog would account for that.

    And I guess what annoys us are others who keep grinding nonsensical issues to get people annoyed or fill their papers. Instead of being irritated with us, you should write to Eastern Eye asking why they keep running this campaign instead of something about the religious hatred bill. Which is going to affect Muslims more? I think we know the answer.

    How about a thread on how false information is being disseminated – and to what end?

    See:
    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/72
    http://www.asiansinmedia.org/news/article.php/publishing/1034

    Also how about whether there is empowerment within these communities to seek retractions or right of reply.

    Well, one would expect the ethnic press to seek those retractions or at least give our communnity a right of reply. No, they’re too busy running their own important campaigns about ice cream.
    I’ve spoken to people regarding the PCC plenty of times but its like banging your head against the wall.

    A major one of course is the elderly leadership these communities have to carry. They are a burden.
    Agreed.

    ‘Guilty of Racist Murder’. Horrified, and wanting to know more, I followed the story and discovered that the Judge did not accept that it was a racially motivated crime (Gang’s ‘drink fuelled rampage’: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4416988.stm).

    I don’t buy that. I think the judge is making excuses. Was the Asian they beat up a non-Muslim? In which case it would be religious and racial hatred. Many others argued that. Plus, the language used by those idiots also indicates inherent racism in addition to a propsensity towards violence anyway. So no, I’m not happy with the Judge’s excuse.

    As for me contacting anyone at Eastern Eye – forget it, I’ve never patronised the paper and somehow don’t think I will. However if you disagree with my observation on how tabloids ‘make’ stories then just say.
    I know they do, and that’s why it annoys me. I’ve opposed EE on many occasions with their stance and will continue to do so until they have more responsible journalism.

    And finally, I take it since you can’t sack anyone do you allow others to join the board? I might consider it if you retract the quotation marks!
    Lol, I’ll retract the quotation marks if you prove (through your writing) that you are indeed a progressive, and not just another person making excuses for racist, bigots, male-chauvanists, terrorists etc of any colour and creed.
    If you would like to write for us, I would welcome that. There is a link on the top right which explains more.

    Nukh – I already explained the limits of your freedom of speech here. If that is too hard for you to swallow, then please don’t bother complaining. I’ve banned other Asians for being racist, homophobic and bigoted etc and have no problems carrying on doing so.

    You firstly need to have respect for people’s belief systems, if not particular beliefs (which you are free to challenge). Coming on here with accusations of pedophilia etc of events that related to 1400 years ago smacks of trollish behaviour, and everyone can see it. If you carry on, I will carry on deleting and banning.

    Oh, and accusations of double-standards never works with me. I’ve been managing websites for Asians for about 6 years now and the one thing they’re good at is complaining.
    To me its water of a duck’s back. Live with it.

  41. El Cid — on 26th November, 2005 at 10:58 pm  

    I think the efforts you are making to raise the level of debate within the British Asian community are fantastic.
    I’ve been really heartened by what I’ve read. It’s all too black and white in the mainsteam press. But I’m by no means surprised by the intelligence shown on PP. Kureishi, Rushdie, the NHS, Michelle Hussein (Cor!), Nasser Hussein, Goodness Gracious Me, Chicken Balti, etc — the contributions of the British Asian community to 21st century Britain are enormous and have more than made up for the emigration of natives to Australia, etc. And that’s without inc the contribution of the world’s biggest volunteer army in WW2.
    I live and grew up in North London (Islington, Haringey, and Hackney) — an extremely multi-ethnic area of the country but funnily enough not one which contains many South Asians. So my exposure to that community has been limited.
    But it’s a gap I’ve been trying to fill. So when the Muslim Welfare House in Finsbury Park (that’s the other mosque in Finsbury Park) had an open day in the wake of 11/3, for example, I took my family. And most instructive it was too.
    For the record, my mum was being dropped off in a taxi at Atocha when the bombs were set off. I guess what I’m saying — what I’m trying to say — is forget Eastern Eye, or at least look beyond it. We’ve all got to aim higher — the mainstream press. Not just relatively progressive papers like the Guardian and Independent, but the rest of ‘em – even the Daily Mail. Because this is OUR country. You get me?

  42. Rohin — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:17 pm  

    Was it just me, or did anyone else hear a rousing brass band coming to a crescendo as El Cid was talking?

    Freeedom!!! FREEEEEDOM!
    Today is our INDEPENDENCE DAY!
    Single colour, SINGLE COLOUR!
    Eeeeaagles!
    Barmy Army!
    [Insert stirring slogan here]

    Sorry, El Cid just inspired me so, I had to vent some pride.

    (I’m just teasing. But I guess I’ve totally messed up the ‘intelligence on PP’ thing you mentioned)

  43. El Cid — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:24 pm  

    Lol. I guess you have a different perspective.

  44. El Cid — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:27 pm  

    On the “intelligence” thing I guess I mean the underlying effort.

  45. jamal — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:33 pm  

    “BK should not be changing the design just because one fool with too much time on his hands decided that it was his “personal Jihad”. That will only open the door to more such sillyness which makes it worse for ordinary Muslims who, unlike you, don’t get uptight over everything.”

    Al Hack (and all others with a similar view)

    Yes someone complained

    Yes BK changed the logo.

    Muslims or not, I rate the person for having a personal gripe, pursuing it, and getting an organisation as big as BK to change a logo.

    Personally I think too much time and effort is being given to this issue. Whether BK changed its logo because they thought this man was right, did not want to offend muslims or just did not want to have an “islamic” ice-cream, it really makes no difference to the majority of people, and definatly doesnt make things “worse” for muslims.

  46. Sajn — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:35 pm  

    Surely in a capitalist society it is up to BK to decide whether or not it is their (financial) interest to change the packaging on this ice cream?

    As for the Daily Mail brigade, aren’t the people complaining merely demostrating how well they have integrated into British society by making a complaint and using the media?

    I can only assume that the anti-BK lobby here are sponsored by the clown with red hair.

    El Cid excuse my ignorance but what happened on 11/3?

  47. El Cid — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:49 pm  

    The Madrid bombings

  48. jamal — on 26th November, 2005 at 11:50 pm  

    Did you just make up that 11/3 term for madrid to go alongside 9/11 and 7/7?

  49. Al-Hack — on 27th November, 2005 at 12:03 am  

    Jamal – going by your website I aint surprised you think incidents like this have no impact. Keep living in the bubble mate, must be nice in there.

    Fe’reeha is like the only one to “get it”. Considering she writes for PP I ain’t surprised!

  50. El Cid — on 27th November, 2005 at 12:23 am  

    No jamal. That’s what they call it Spain (groan)

  51. El Cid — on 27th November, 2005 at 12:31 am  

    i guess 11-M is popular in terms of google searches

  52. Sunny — on 27th November, 2005 at 12:35 am  

    El Cid – thanks for that.
    Because this is OUR country. You get me?

    Couldn’t agree more! And good to hear that you took the trouble to visit the local mosque. Unfortunately the Asian paranoia and victim mentality over religion is so big that not enough people visit other places of worship. The ones that do end up making local folklore, its hilarious.

    It’s all too black and white in the mainsteam press.
    Agreed.

    Michelle Hussein
    I think you mean Mishal Hussain who is indeed cor!

    Anyway, let’s try and keep a good dialogue going! Campaigns by Eastern Eye aside of course, lol.

  53. El Cid — on 27th November, 2005 at 12:38 am  

    Mishal Hussain (cor!)

  54. nukh — on 27th November, 2005 at 6:40 am  

    sunny,
    i do understand that it is your blog and you are the final arbiter…and i do wish to continue being enlightened by the debate carried out on your blog. this said, i will try my best to refrain from directing my ire to any one religion…in future i will try to castigate them all…..or restrict myself to abusing individuals who i disagree with…. since a couple of visitors used the word cunt and twat [which is also a derogatory word for the female genitalia] to describe me…..and you in all your wisdom deemed it fit for posting.
    so is it ok if i direct my diatribes against individuals and not against the inherently more deserving religious icons?
    please let me know….i shall be very grateful!!

    everybody else,
    please accept my heartfelt apologies for my previous post in which i used profane language to describe the prophet and islam……my intention was not to hurt anyone’s feelings…….however, i did mean every word i wrote..
    anyways, i will stay off foul stuff in future..hope you guys forgive and understand.

  55. Sunny — on 27th November, 2005 at 1:58 pm  

    so is it ok if i direct my diatribes against individuals and not against the inherently more deserving religious icons?

    Yes it is, but go easy on the profanity. Some words are of course more exceptable than others… as you can tell.

  56. jamal — on 27th November, 2005 at 3:13 pm  

    going by your website I aint surprised you think incidents like this have no impact. Keep living in the bubble mate, must be nice in there.”

    Please tell me Al-Hack, what is the “impact”?

  57. Refresh — on 27th November, 2005 at 6:16 pm  

    Nukh,

    You are a tragedy. Your admission that you only wrote the stuff for attention makes it so.

    What you wrote is despicable. You claim genes from both muslim and hindu parents, but clearly not their intelligence, and most definitely not their heritage.

    Unless you can tell me otherwise.

    [By the way do your parents know about the bilge you write?]

  58. nukh — on 27th November, 2005 at 6:53 pm  

    refresh, lighten up…..you seem to be missing the point. my attention seeking was for the lopsided censorship [in my opinion] and not for myself.
    btw, what is so despicable about my post?
    i diparaged religion, albeit in a vulgar fashion, for which i once again apologize, and its derivatives……i did not insult any one individual…only an idea …..a very dangerous one…might i say very respectfuly.

  59. Sajn — on 27th November, 2005 at 7:25 pm  

    El Cid thanks.

    Sunny considering some of your aspirations, don’t you think women deserve more respect than saying someone is “cor!”?

  60. sonia — on 27th November, 2005 at 8:33 pm  

    a compliment no?

  61. Sunny — on 27th November, 2005 at 9:44 pm  

    Huh? How is that derogatory? Is appreciating women not allowed :s

  62. Old Pickler — on 27th November, 2005 at 10:02 pm  

    What’s an ice cream like you doing in a tub like that?

  63. El Cid — on 27th November, 2005 at 11:19 pm  

    How comes Sunny is singled out for criticism?
    With apologies to Sidney James, I was the one who lowered the tone by first letting slip my lurid and sexist fascination with the enchanting Mishal Hussein. I cannot suppress the man within and nor do I really want to. She is a seriously horny work of breakfast TV totty. The hint of innate intelligence that goes with her job as a newsreader only serves to multiply her attractiveness — to someone as evidently sick as me.
    It’s a terrible illness and very addictive; in many parts of the world it can strike about 10 out of every 10 heterosexual males.
    Of course, if women were covered from head to toe, so that only their eyes showed, then weak men like me wouldn’t be so distracted and could focus on the autocue-reading in hand. A hole for the mouth might also help.
    (Only teasing. Surely we live in a post-sexist age where women can chat up men and be the main bread winners in a household. So what the fuss?)

  64. Old Pickler — on 27th November, 2005 at 11:45 pm  

    Surely we live in a post-sexist age where women can chat up men and be the main bread winners in a household. So what the fuss?) .

    What indeed? So I’m waiting with baited breath for those men who say it’s OK for women to dress in sacks with slits to say that it’s OK for men too. And those men who say that polygyamy is part of the diversity rainbow to be equally keen on polyandry.

    Still waiting.

    Gender equality is bound to play second fiddle on an ‘Asian’ blog that gives house room to Islam.

  65. Sunny — on 27th November, 2005 at 11:59 pm  

    Gender equality is bound to play second fiddle on an ‘Asian’ blog that gives house room to Islam.

    Rubbish OP – your rhetoric is again giving way to what you see on here. If you cite any relevant examples by the commentators, feel free. Until then keep the false accusations to yourself.

  66. Old Pickler — on 28th November, 2005 at 12:12 am  

    If you cite any relevant examples by the commentators, feel free. Until then keep the false accusations to yourself.

    Bikhair?

  67. Old Pickler — on 28th November, 2005 at 12:13 am  

    And the many commenters who, on a thread a few weeks ago said it was OK for women to ‘choose’ to dress like a dalek. Yeah, they are really saying that it is appropriate for men to ‘choose’ to dress like that too.

  68. Sunny — on 28th November, 2005 at 12:49 am  

    Bikhair has her own opinions that she is allowed to have, because, do try to remember, this is a democracy. That doesn’t mean we agree with her in the same way much of the drivel you spout on HP’s comment boxes is not shared by the commentators there.

    And for the record, wearing a Hijab is a right that, whether you like it or not, is a right under freedom to express your religion etc etc. I would defend that right because it is fundamental to democracy, but I would not defend that dresscode being imposed on someone.

    So, unless you show examples where the writers of this blog have put sexual equality to religion, please don’t throw useless accusations.

  69. douglas — on 28th November, 2005 at 12:54 am  

    Old Pickler,

    It has always struck me as odd that the males can dress as Chicago Gangsters or Hoodies, but the women are required to remain modest. Is this the human version of Peacocks? I believe it is the male peacock that puts on the display.

    Quite the antithesis of western culure really. Well, Western European at least, not too sure I’m up to speed on the Gangstas on the West Side, although they seem to dress down their chix and then say ‘I dare ya.’

    Although I believe that Dalek dress should be reserved for Dr Who get togethers. Where it is appropriate and gets you kudos.

    Dress codes are a minefield.

    douglas

  70. Siddharth — on 28th November, 2005 at 1:16 am  

    I’m still looking forward to the OP v Bikhair clash of civilisations on the issue of women “forced into burkha wearing” by evil Muslim men right here, ringside, on PP. :-)

  71. Old Pickler — on 28th November, 2005 at 2:31 am  

    Wife beating is also a ‘right’ in Islam. So it is probably ‘undemocratic’ to condemn it, because we are infringing on Muslims’ ‘rights’ to practise their religion.

  72. Sunny — on 28th November, 2005 at 3:00 am  

    Religious sanction is no excuse OP, we both know that. Abuse of women happens in all non-Muslim societies too – maybe you should direct your invective to domestic abuse in this country instead of being a one-trick pony about Islam. We don’t and never will support wife-beating on here, so again – please stop making baseless statements.

  73. Vikrant — on 28th November, 2005 at 8:27 am  

    Sunny your “freedom of speech”,”democracy” ends for me and blue mountain isnt it?

  74. bananabrain — on 28th November, 2005 at 1:04 pm  

    i don’t normally make big cut-and-pastes, but there’s a good reason:

    We highlight sexist, racist and homophobic attitudes by Asians here because we believe them to be wrong. So just because other racists/bigots may pick them up doesn’t mean we shouldn’t highlight and talk about the issue. All this has already been stated above.

    The naive attitude that “progressives” like yourself (and Jamal) have is that you keep highlighting issues that you care about (Bush, the war etc), but want to sweep under the carpet all the things too uncomfortable for you to deal with.

    Racist Asians? ‘Oh no, let’s not talk about that’. Sexism? ‘Oh stop pointing fingers at us, others are worse’. Stupidity by the so-called community leaders or the ethnic press – ‘no we don’t want to talk about it because then racists might use it for their own agenda’.

    So everyone else thinks all us Asians are like that. Sorry mate we don’t hide behind that victim mentality that you do. We are proud of our roots but we also want to take things forward and fight against social ills.

    The stupidity of our community leaders, ethnic media, self-styled personal jihadis etc all has to be highlighted and argued against otherwise we get nowhere. We get apologists like you who would prefer such things simply go away.

    i’m pretty sure i could rewrite this to apply to my own community. and it’s not just us jews; i’m pretty sure everyone could do it, black, white, chinese, hindus, whatever.

    so cheers to you sunny, for being willing to stand up and be counted!

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  75. kalyaa — on 28th November, 2005 at 5:04 pm  

    If it reesembles a religious symbol, which it does then yes surely it should be banned. why make a big fuss about it when banning it is the most cost effective method both personally and financially.

  76. sonia — on 28th November, 2005 at 5:12 pm  

    you seem quite fond of banning. why not ban christmas while we’re at it. oooh no we’re quite happy to have a holiday…

  77. Inquisitor — on 2nd December, 2005 at 7:23 am  

    Or perhaps we could threaten to give up Islam if BK doesn’t give up the design, or, promise to continue being Muslims if the Arabs come up with a new inscription to symbolise and iconicise ‘God’. After all, if Muslims didn’t believe in statues, we shouldn’t take offence when what is supposed to be a mere word bears resemblance to BK’s cone should we?

    If we do, that would mean that the word, ‘Allah’, is no different from the statues adorning the various temples and churches in its value to the flock.

  78. The atheist — on 4th December, 2005 at 11:02 pm  

    Nice to hear some rational, reasonable comment from muslims over this issue. I tuned in ‘cos I thought that you were all going to be planning to torch BK!

    Freethought forever!

  79. j0nz — on 4th December, 2005 at 11:48 pm  

    Nice to hear some rational, reasonable comment from muslims over this issue. I tuned in ‘cos I thought that you were all going to be planning to torch BK!

    Freethought forever!

    I know wicked ain’t it?!

    Power to PP

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