Guilty of racist murder


by Sunny
22nd November, 2005 at 11:54 pm    

murderersChristopher Yates, 30, was knocked to the ground and his head kicked like a football last November, the Old Bailey was told. He was set upon by the group who had been drinking in the car park of the University of East London in Barking.

Sajid Zulfiqar, 25, Zahid Bashir, 23, and Imran Maqsood, 21, of Ilford, east London, will be sentenced on Thursday. The court heard that after the attack Zulfiqar shouted, in Urdu: “We have killed the white man. That will teach an Englishman to interfere in Paki business.”

We know you’ll rot in hell boys, have a nice trip! [BBC story]


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  1. neo — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:04 am  

    They’re going to have a great time in a british prison. Its a great place for white-haters.

  2. DAtley — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:03 am  

    what is this brit obsession with labeling folks as asian
    or subcontinental. say it as it is muslims

  3. Robert — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:27 am  

    what is this brit obsession with labeling folks as asian or subcontinental. say it as it is muslims

    Because in this case they’ve been drinking in a car-park beforehand, and are therefore clearly not practicing muslims… or rather, they clearly weren’t practicing Islam in the car-park. This is a simple race-hate crime, rather than one motivated by religious ideology. So calling them Asian is indeed ‘telling it like it is’.

  4. Sunny — on 23rd November, 2005 at 3:35 am  

    What does their religion have to do with anything? If a white Christian kills an Asian, am I supposed to call it a Christian murder?

  5. Bikhair — on 23rd November, 2005 at 4:27 am  

    This is what happens when you stray from the deen of Islam and follow the ways of the kufiroon. You kill over race. Could you imagine a Muslim doing such a thing? Fisabillilah, I think not.

    But before they were sent to prison, or in a more civilized society, be killed for taking a life unjustly, they should have been flogged for drinking alcohol.

  6. Mirax — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:30 am  

    I must say you are consistent Bikhair and as always have your legalistic niceties sorted out: Flog the the kafirs before you stone em to death, indeed!

  7. Bikhair — on 23rd November, 2005 at 6:51 am  

    Mirax,

    Thanks.

  8. Geezer — on 23rd November, 2005 at 8:40 am  

    Filthy savages…Maybe they can be housed in the same cell as Anthony Walkers killers so they both can engage in a battle royal of sorts but the only difference being only the scum will be hurt.

  9. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 9:19 am  

    Well two high profile murders recently this one – by Pakistani – of Muslim origin – and the Police woman – who appears to be shot by a Somalian gang – also of Muslim origin.

    It would be foolish to directly attribute these murders to Islam, indeed the Pakistani men had been drinking heavily, not very pious.

    However if we look at the statisitcs of asian minorities in prison we a disproportiante number of the miniorites from Muslim origins – Pakistanis, Somalians & Bangladeshis etc.

    They were not of Buddhist origin, nor Hindu, nor Christian, nor Jewish. These does not mean to say Islam is to blame. More that such correlations point to certain, say ‘discontentment’ amongst people coming from said Islamic societies.

  10. Siddharth — on 23rd November, 2005 at 9:45 am  

    Yes j0nz, why don’t you say what’s really on your mind. Or to be more expansive, why don’t you go peddle your correlations in some BNP chat room where you won’t have to trouble with the burden of insinuation.

  11. Siddharth — on 23rd November, 2005 at 9:59 am  

    Paul Taylor, the man who admits to killing the black youth Anthony Walker. He was one of a group who attacked Walker.

    They were not of Buddhist origin, nor Hindu, nor Muslim, nor Jewish. These does not mean to say Christianity is to blame. More that such correlations point to certain, say ‘discontentment’ amongst people coming from said Christian Secular societies.

    You ok with that j0nz?

  12. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 10:07 am  

    LOL Siddarth. They were of Muslim origin though….Or come from Islamic countries… Obviously that makes a me a racist for pointing this out!

    And I’ve got a funny feeling that the Neo-Nazi BNP don’t like any sort of minority!

    And Siddarth rather than smearing maybe you could come up with some counter evidence, i.e. Drunken Jews killing a black man. The emu approach doesn’t work too well, in my opinion!

  13. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 10:10 am  

    I didn’t see your second post.

    Well there’s am undeniable problem with Nazi ideology, as there is with Islamofascism! Your point is – all secualrists are Nazis now?! LOL.

  14. Siddharth — on 23rd November, 2005 at 10:22 am  

    My God, what does a man have to do with a point across to you j0nz? By pointing to a similar racist murder, I asked you if you say that the Anthony Walker murders can be blamed on Christianity because you are insinuating that the murder of the man in Ilford by 3 Asian Muslim men is a symptom of Muslim discontent.

  15. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 10:35 am  

    Well I know what your saying but I believe these guys have Neo-Nazi ideology – something this country went to war with to eliminate.

    Apart from the Neo-Nazis I would like evidence that Jews or Buddhists or Hindus are doing racist murders in this country.

    Could you explain the disproportionatley high number of ethnic miniorities in prison from Islamic societies? Maybe because these Islamic countries where drinking is frowned upon is such a happy go lucky place!?

    Another racist murder against a white person springs to mind…. And guess what? Surprise they was done from enthinc minorities of Muslim origin! Remember that 15 year old kid who got burned alive in Scotland by Pakistanis?

    I’m not saying Muslims are racist, or Islam is the root of all evil, I’m just saying that strict religious adherence is counter productive to a happy society, and perhaps goes someway to explain these bizarre correlations that you would like to ignore.

  16. Vikrant — on 23rd November, 2005 at 10:49 am  

    j0nz no point in debating sid. i have explanations for his line of thinking but that would be too PC for this website.

  17. Siddharth — on 23rd November, 2005 at 11:08 am  

    Once again, shouldn’t both of you clodhoppers take yourselves to your nearest anti-Muslim and anti-Non-IndianDesi blog ASAP?

  18. Vikrant — on 23rd November, 2005 at 11:13 am  

    Whoa now i’m anti-Muslim. Typical leftie. I got no love for Islamists as for the religion itself. Dont care. As for be being anti-diaspora. Bollocks. I live in Surrey,UK.

  19. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 11:17 am  

    Well thank you Pickled Politics.

    So under-reported was this story that I missed the news that they had been found guilty (unlike another murder trial mentioned which is taking place at this time).

    The BBC also attempt to explain why this is not a ‘racist’ killing:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4416988.stm

    Note the standard politically correct statement in the story:

    “Comments were made (by the killers) which could be perceived as racist but whether it was racially-motivated is something which only the defendants will know.”

    Please pull the other one…

    Joke:
    Q: What were Anthony Walkers last words?
    A: I’ve got a splitting headache!

  20. Siddharth — on 23rd November, 2005 at 11:22 am  

    Yeah, but there are blogs out there that cater to your ‘specialist’ tastes.

  21. Vikrant — on 23rd November, 2005 at 11:32 am  

    Meboy if you r suggesting that i’m some sorta Hindutva whacko then just for records: i’m not.

  22. El Cid — on 23rd November, 2005 at 12:00 pm  

    I really don’t know TottenhamLad how you can possibly think that the pointless murder of a studious and innocuous kid is amusing.
    I thought for a second that you were making a reasonable contribution. I agree that racism is underreported when whites are the victims. It bugs me too. But you spoil it with your finale. You are vile.
    I constantly harrangue my peers in the educated classes for looking down at the white working classes (I’m poor white trash come good, see). I’ll never disown the white working class/underclass. But people like you who make me ashamed, in the same way that these three Asian killers make the people behind PickledPolitics puke.
    Yes, I am making assumptions about you.
    Surely, if anything merits censoring on this site it would be so-called ‘jokes’ such as TottenhamLad’s and the ‘gas’ one on a previous thread.

  23. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 12:13 pm  

    A cruel joke made from anger.

    Anger that attacks on English people by non-english people are down played or even ignored totally by the main stream media whereas the opposit is trumpeted for days from the likes of news.bbc.co.uk

    Mr Walkers murder is just one amongst many – so why exactly is the media so obsessed?

    Why? Just explain to me…

  24. Sunny — on 23rd November, 2005 at 12:50 pm  

    j0nz – really. I think the BNP would welcome you with open arms mate. If you really want to do the whole “look isn’t it a co-incidence that these people are Muslim” thing, we could have that discussion and I could blast you out of the water but I’m not even going dignify it.

    Before you use your selective memory to make some sort of connection in your mind, my suggestion is this. Why don’t you back it up with some proper stats and then maybe you won’t look so stupid and bigoted all the time.

    Otherwise there is always the BNP for you. Their IQ level is also about the same as yours.

  25. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:05 pm  

    we could have that discussion and I could blast you out of the water but I’m not even going dignify it.

    LOL. You guys really make me laugh… Would love to talk statistics.

    How’s 52 innocent dead? You’d be lucky to find a list of racist murders in the UK for the past TWO DECADES that even begin to match that figure, mate.

    So deaths resulting from Muslims = 52 in one day
    Racist deaths in uk for past 20 years = about 40

    Riiight.

  26. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:08 pm  

    But obviously that makes me a Neo-Nazi Muslim hating Islamophobe. Bloody looney lefty – that’s what you are!

  27. Sunny — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:18 pm  

    How’s 52 innocent dead? You’d be lucky to find a list of racist murders in the UK for the past TWO DECADES that even begin to match that figure, mate.

    j0nz – I fail to see what the attacks in London have to do with the racist murder of this guy, but you’re clearly not averse to trying anything to make out as you have a coherent argument.

    But clearly the link is: the guys above are Muslim, and the guys who blew themselves are Muslims. So, oh look – there’s a problem.

    So. When are we going to start talking about the amount of Iraqis killed by the British and American forces? Having a happy White Phosphorus christmas?

  28. mellow — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:19 pm  

    What I read from j0nz’s comment was more that fact that there is evidence that certain communities disenfranchisement bore some correlation to their disproportionate representation in the prison system.

    Is it anti Muslim to also note that youth of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin are underperforming in the education system ?

  29. raz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:21 pm  

    “How’s 52 innocent dead? You’d be lucky to find a list of racist murders in the UK for the past TWO DECADES that even begin to match that figure, mate”

    How exactly was the July 7 bombings ‘racist’? The bombers killed people of evey race. And if religous hatred is your criteria for ‘racism’ then the troubles in NI (which, for your information, is in the UK), have claimed more than 3000 lives. Looks like UK Muslims are quite restrained compared to those lovely Catholics and Protestants :)

  30. Al-Hack — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:22 pm  

    Most of the paedophiles caught in this country, and certainly those recently in the media, are white middle-aged men. D’ya reckon it might be something about being white and middle aged that make them paedos?

    And what if you’re white, middle-aged and Catholic?

  31. Al-Hack — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:24 pm  

    I’d be interested to read the comments on j0nz’s website and from those tossers at LGF if some mad imam had been hiding child abuse for decades. Where’s your outrage at the Catholic church j0nz? Written about that recently?

  32. Sunny — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:33 pm  

    Rohin sent me an email (because he couldn’t post it) saying this:

    ——
    “Buddhists are, in fact, the most over-represented religion in Britain’s jails. This is largely explained by prisoners of Chinese descent identifying their religion as Buddhism, which is completely academic as none of them are practicing and their families probably haven’t done anything other than light some incense for decades. So it’s foolish and pointless to ascribe criminal traits to any religion – any criminal has strayed from the path of his religion, that’s why he’s in jail. These men are as Muslim as a snakehead people-smuggling triad member is Buddhist – it means nothing.”

  33. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:35 pm  

    Al-Hacker

    “..Most of the paedophiles… …are white middle-aged men..”

    That old myth/strawman…

    Isn’t South Africa the child/baby rape center of the world?

    Not many european middle-aged men there I think.

  34. raz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:40 pm  

    “..Most of the paedophiles… …are white middle-aged men..”

    Why did you “…..” the few words in his sentence which said ‘in this country’? And then start talking about South Africa? Bizzare!

  35. sonia — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:49 pm  

    there’s a problem with fascists of any ideology or background – that’s what i’ll say… Unfortunately a lot of ‘islamists’ out there are clearly fascists.. so you can’t really blame jOnz for his opinions – given that appears to to be what appears to be mostly apparent to him.

    and also a lot of muslims this country feel their religion is part of their identity – and handle that in a ‘reactionary’ sort of way – in my opinion in the same way ‘race’ for a lot of people is part of their identity..generally seems to be part of the majority-minority dynamic.

    Sociologically speaking its very significant

    what i find interesting is how when people appear to view the world through race-tinted/religion-tinted spectacles – whether they can then get away from that at all – you know – perhaps see individuals for what they are, – individuals – instead of ‘which group’ they represent. Clearly individuals are never going to be ‘representative’ of groups – are they – some seek to be -but there is always some disagreement as to what the group should represent!

    sidenote:

    I have a friend who actually separates clubs into ‘black’ clubs and ‘white’ clubs. I thought that was a pretty racist attitude…but she didn’t – she just htought she was seeing things ‘the way they are’.

  36. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:51 pm  

    Al-Hacker:

    “Most of the paedophiles caught in this country, and certainly those recently in the media, are English middle-aged men.”

    Shock horror!!! most paedophiles in England are English

    Shock horror!!! all suicide bombers in England are moslem immigrants (or offspring of such)

    Is that better?

  37. sonia — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:52 pm  

    excuse my typo up above, i meant that given what is apparent to j0nz we can understand his opinions.

    i don’t see it as very different opinion to that which i’ve heard from a lot of Muslims over the years – about Jewish people and the link to Israel, and all that sort of thing. Anti-semitic opinions on the basis of what’s going on in Israel.

    which i don’t think is valid, but there you go…

  38. Al-Hack — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:58 pm  

    Soni, a good analysis there but anything intelligent on this topic will go completely over the head of j0nz. He just wants to make a straight religious link.

    “moslem immigrants”
    Immigrants? Who said there were immigrants Lad? Trying to make a link with something else now are we?

    Funny you mention SA but then say “European white men”. No they’re not european, many are south african white men.

    Ever been to beaches in Sri Lanka or Thailand? Full of middle-aged white men looking for young boys. Funny how this part of the world isn’t interested in those stories though it’s a big problem there.

  39. raz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 1:59 pm  

    Tottehham Lad, this was exactly the point Al-Hack was making. It’s absurd to make generalisations about white people and pedophiles, just as it is to make generalisations about Muslims and terrorists. It’s a shame you didn’t appreciate the irony of his comment :”D’ya reckon it might be something about being white and middle aged that make them paedos?”

  40. shihab — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:13 pm  

    “Racist deaths in uk for past 20 years = about 40″

    It’s a little bit more than that…

    http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000002.html

  41. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:33 pm  

    shihab:

    Any mention of Christopher Yates on the website you mentioned?

    Yes? No?

  42. ContraryMary — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:36 pm  

    how thoroughly depressing.
    the anti-Islam propaganda, awash in our media, since 9/11 is quite obviously working.

    Islam is the new enemy as communism, was before that. nice.

    we have a great future to look forward to with fundamentalist terrorists blowing themselves up from London to Baghdad to Delhi, and the great (self-appointed) policekeepers of the world fighting a war of its own creation and without consent.

    Tottenham Lad/J0nz do you really, really want to tar a religion of 1billion people with the actions of less than 0.01% of that 1 billion?

    you can follow and support the fight America and Britain has picked with Islam, but will never win. in fact we all lose.

  43. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:42 pm  

    Well it’s a side topic for sure, but Sonny & Siddarth claim BNP is a greater threat to the UK than Islamic Terrorism.

    This is patently absurd! How many acts of mass murder have been recorded by BNP ‘activists’, in the past say 6 months for example? Or 1 year? Maybe 10 years?

    Anyway the point is there are problems with inegration in this country and the emu approach or the Galloway response (all out denial) gets nobody anywhere.

    The only one to have a decent counter-agrument was Raz

    How exactly was the July 7 bombings ‘racist’? The bombers killed people of evey race. And if religous hatred is your criteria for ‘racism’ then the troubles in NI (which, for your information, is in the UK), have claimed more than 3000 lives. Looks like UK Muslims are quite restrained compared to those lovely Catholics and Protestants :)

    Terrorism is abhorrent – and the para-militaries murders from Ireland were a big part of modern history got the UK. But that threat has died down since 9/11. Now we can shift our awareness to our next (self-declared) enemies.

  44. Geezer — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:44 pm  

    Lets be honest here racial crimes against whites do have a habit of being under reported. Another example that comes to mind was that of Richard Whelan who was stabbed by a young Afro Caribbean chap, but what was not mentioned was the level of racist abuse directed at him before his killing.

    As for associating religion with criminality this is not correct. A criminal cares little for any belief system his concerns are short term and materialistic. With the case of the Somali gang who shot the WPC [May she rest in peace] they attacked a “Muslim” owned business savagely beating the employees and then turned their attentions to the arriving officers religion is of little concern to them.

  45. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:46 pm  

    Islam Islamofascism is the new enemy as communism, was before that.

  46. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:48 pm  

    Al-Hacker:

    Immigrants? Who said there were immigrants Lad?

    Thought I said “all suicide bombers in England are moslem immigrants (or offspring of such)”

  47. Sunny — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:52 pm  

    Anyway the point is there are problems with inegration in this country

    Yawn. With nothing useful to reply with, you’re back with your typical retort j0nz. I’m beginning to think you and OP are robots who read off the same script.

    When a gang of white youths go on a crime spree then its a youth problem. When a bunch of Asian youths do that, its a problem with integration.

    And now you’re reduced to defending the BNP. Har har. I find that hilarious.

  48. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 2:54 pm  

    Al-Hacker:

    Ever been to beaches in Sri Lanka or Thailand? Full of middle-aged white men looking for young boys

    And as I said:

    “Isn’t South Africa the child/baby rape center of the world?”

  49. El Cid — on 23rd November, 2005 at 3:06 pm  

    Just because you’re angry TottenhamLad doesn’t mean you should sell your soul or secular equivalent.
    Anger doesn’t justify blowing up trains, hitting naughty children, etc, and neither it does justify the death of someone minding his own business and walking home, irrespective of colour.
    Not only is that inhuman it is deeply ignorant. You’re clearly not dumb so why not try to meet Sunny, al-Hack and co half way. It’s not as if they are hiding behind their race. The whole point of this string after all was to highlight an Asian racist killing of a white man. Or are you sooooooooooooooo filled with hate that you can’t.
    One last thing: that thing about paedophilia, I agree, is a straw man. You’ve got to be 16 to be married in Western society after all. Girl babies are also revered as much as boys.

  50. Siddharth — on 23rd November, 2005 at 3:08 pm  

    What about that Gary Glitter hey? Somethings rotten in the world when theres the correlation of Christian Fundamentalism and bad 70s Protestant Glam artists who happen to be raving paedophiles. There’s obviously a Liberal Left Wing conspiracy to keep this off the pages of the BBC website and the Guardian. Like Scott Burgess, I’m so fucking OUTRAGED!

  51. Al-Hack — on 23rd November, 2005 at 3:10 pm  

    Tottenham Lad – Great. Now you’ve figured out how stupid it is to play these games of blame. Read what Raz said above.
    j0nz ignored my question about writing about the catholic church though. That was amusing to watch.

  52. Maharjah Ranjit Singh — on 23rd November, 2005 at 3:10 pm  

    Tottenham Lad is a prime example of being drawn into a stupid pissing match in a comments blog by a racist twat. He told a joke about the black lad in Liverpool who had an axe embedded in his skull and for that alone he should be ignored.

    Just let such barking mad men listen to their Skrewdriver records.

  53. Bikhair — on 23rd November, 2005 at 3:32 pm  

    jOnz,

    “They were not of Buddhist origin, nor Hindu, nor Christian, nor Jewish. These does not mean to say Islam is to blame. More that such correlations point to certain, say ‘discontentment’ amongst people coming from said Islamic societies. ”

    In my lovely country that is America, you will not find any Pakistani, Bengali, Somali Muslims in prison. In fact the only Muslims in prison are black men who converted while there. Strange what goes on on the other side of the pond.

  54. TottenhamLad — on 23rd November, 2005 at 3:39 pm  

    Maharjah Ranjit Singh:

    You say “…racist twat…” “…barking mad…” just because of my joke.

    But if you were to tell the average English person a similar joke about Christopher Yates they would stare at you blankly and say ‘who?’. Why, because his murder was under reported by the main stream media. Which was the point of my very first post.

  55. Rohin — on 23rd November, 2005 at 4:06 pm  

    Bikhair, you continue to baffle me with your drivel. As if calling America lovely wasn’t daft enough, you now claim all Muslims in American prisons have converted AFTER having got there! What complete poppycock.

    If I wasn’t in an Internet café I’d give you some hard figures (anyone care to research it?) but ever heard of Guatanamo Bay? Oh I suppose they all converted after getting there!

    Please, with secret CIA prisons being uncovered, where over 3000 Muslims have been detained under terror charges and a huge prison population across the country, consisting of a large amount of non-African American Muslims, I really have no idea where you get your nutty ideas from.

    Funny what happens on the other side of the pond.

  56. Bikhair — on 23rd November, 2005 at 4:07 pm  

    jOnz,

    Why is it that Europeans cant satisfy thier Muslim population they way we Americans can?

  57. Rohin — on 23rd November, 2005 at 4:16 pm  

    Bikhair, you are pure comedy. Please continue.

  58. Don — on 23rd November, 2005 at 4:38 pm  

    So whatever ethnic or religious (or other) group is prone to bad things, it isn’t us, and if it is us the others are worse, if not here then somewhere else or at some other time, and if not what about white phosphorous and Garry Glitter, eh? eh?

    And I could prove all this but it’s beneath me.

    And if you don’t agree you clearly support (insert extremist organisation of choice).

  59. Maharajah Ranjit Singh — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:03 pm  

    Tottenham Lad

    You make a joke about black teenager being murdered with an axe to the head because of your beef over the under reporting of another crime? …..
    [Edited out my moderator due to excessive swearing]

  60. sonia — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:21 pm  

    Mellow – point up above – re: pakistani and bangladeshi groups and underperformance on exam results. i don’t think its ‘anti-islamic’ to point that out.

    ( goodness- such an obsession with anti-islamicness!) i wouldn’t say it was racist even to point that out. It would be racist ( and rather silly) to think that there was a ‘biological’ reason behind it, rather than socio-economic reasons. for example – ( and this is similar looking at the no.s of kids who go to university as well) a lot of the bangladeshi kids end up working in their parent’s restaurants etc. and possibly their parents didn’t encourage them to do well at school etc.

    I think there is an interesting comparison here with studies in the past re: in the US where people would use the fact that African-American kids tended to underperform in things like IQ tests and the SAT’s etc. and for a long time there was a tendency to link this to biological explanations – i.e. black people are stupid. ! However luckily a lot of psychological research later showed that it was much more likely to do with socio-economic conditions than biological factors.

  61. sonia — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:23 pm  

    Bikhair and Indian Capitalist would get on! ( anyone who’s been hanging around the Guardian blogs will have heard of IC – if not..he’s pure comedy..) hehheh

  62. Jai Singh — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:37 pm  

    =>”We have killed the white man. That will teach an Englishman to interfere in Paki business.”

    Apologies for reinforcing the obvious here, but this crime was race-driven, not religious-driven. Otherwise they would have said something along the lines of “That will teach a Kafir to interfere in Muslim business.”

    Maybe their interpretation of their faith (either due to their own knowledge of their religion or the social environment they live in) caused them to think that they were somehow morally justified in their actions. Who knows ? Well, their families, friends, and their lawyers probably do. In any case, again the primary motivation was racism, not religion.

    It really is as simple as that.

  63. Siddharth — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:38 pm  

    Sonia: point about the story of under performing Bangladeshi and Pakistani kids. There’s a potential PP post in there somewhere.

  64. Steve M — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:55 pm  

    They are thugs and murderers and what they have in common with thugs and murderers of whatever race or religion is the ability and desire to dehumanise the ‘other’.

    It stops when we free the other and accept him as the same as us. I think that’s called ‘humanity’.

  65. nukh — on 23rd November, 2005 at 5:56 pm  

    a cursory research will yield some other tantalising facts on paedophilia…….
    and you will notice it is the norm [pederast]in islamic societies such as pakistan and afghanistan….and i would be remiss if i did not mention that pioneer of child molesting – the “prophet” muhammad.
    who married a six year old girl and consummated the marriage when she was nine….lucky girl.

  66. BevanKieran — on 23rd November, 2005 at 6:05 pm  

    The issue of disproportionate reporting of hate crimes according to race/religion of the perpetrator/victim is analogous to the coverage of missing children. In this case, according to the following Observer article, less coverage is given to children of ethnic minorities, working class and those with single parents.

    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,860063,00.html

  67. Mirax — on 23rd November, 2005 at 6:10 pm  

    ‘It really is as simple as that.’

    Maybe. But this trio also attacked 2 black men and an asian while they were on the rampage. Drunkenness, cruelty, stupidity etc all figure in this.

  68. DAtley — on 23rd November, 2005 at 6:46 pm  

    Because in this case they’ve been drinking in a car-park beforehand, and are therefore clearly not practicing muslims… or rather, they clearly weren’t practicing Islam in the car-park. This is a simple race-hate crime, rather than one motivated by religious ideology. So calling them Asian is indeed ‘telling it like it is’.

    Calling them muslims is telling it as is.
    Calling them drunk muslims is more accurate
    Asians in UK context throws in everyone from the former indian territory. These folks typicaly are muslims. more specificaly pakistani and mirpuri kashmiris.
    Remember the bradford riots. The label asian was put on it.. You wont see south indian muslims engaged in such activities. You dont see a kashmiri pundit engaged in this kind of stuff. This is fundamentaly a pakistani muslim problem.

  69. Col. Mustafa — on 23rd November, 2005 at 6:55 pm  

    University of East London aka Shithole.

    I see religion seems to be brought into the fact that these arse muppets probably just caught a glimpse off the white guy and thier large male egos kicked into gear.

    WTF U LOOKIN AT????
    I have a feeling that sentence might of come up.

    Then what happened, im not sure. Could of been the white guy responded, seeing as though his male ego might be hurt in this heated process of male bonding; or the white guy carried on walking off and was then set upon on.

    “That will teach an Englishman to interfere in Paki business.”

    Im assuming that they might of known the guy, or some sort of confrontation happened earlier, maybe even in a classroom or something after they goto the same uni.
    Who knows???
    Or these pakis were just delusional.
    All the same it just makes me want to leave this godforsaken soceity and not ever hear about these incidents.
    Sadly human beings love misery, and violence.
    Theres no escape from from it all.
    The bodysnatchers would snatch your body and destroy your mind so you dont know what to do anymore, just walk about and try and take other bodies.
    I feel as though that would be a better option as much less responsibility, and also everyones on the same page.
    Its beautiful mannnnnn.

  70. Col. Mustafa — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:11 pm  

    “a cursory research will yield some other tantalising facts on paedophilia…….
    and you will notice it is the norm [pederast]in islamic societies such as pakistan and afghanistan….and i would be remiss if i did not mention that pioneer of child molesting – the “prophet” muhammad.
    who married a six year old girl and consummated the marriage when she was nine….lucky girl.”

    The pioneer of child molesting = Prophet Muhammad.

    What a simple equation.
    Dude back in roman times it was natural for men aged 30 or 40 to get married to a 13 yr old.
    Ok lets go even further back than that, maybe to basically all of the civilisations before that one.
    So are you just going back in history to a chosen time or something?
    The Prohet was doing something quite normal for his time regardless of how wrong or right it is.
    So were most of all the other paedo wannabes in thier respective times.
    I hate people trying to prove something with historic content that dont know what there on about.

    The fact that its still a problem to this day in alot of those countries in the middle east and south asia doesn’t really have much to do with a man living 1400 yrs ago preaching a new religion trying to change the Arab way of life.

  71. Mirax — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:24 pm  

    Datley, if from the subcontinent, just has o go back to his own family, say 3-4 generations back, and he would find that some of his g-g-grandmothers were child brides and his grand-daddies child-molesters.

    Those who bring up the ‘issue’ of Mohd having been a paedophile:
    1. the issue is not not clear cut as you scholars think; there is serious dispute about Aisha’s age.

    2. Many of Mohd’s wives were older than him; why not mention this too?

    3. What relevance has any of this to the discussion?

    4. you reveal yourselves to be agenda-driven twats when you mention this apropos of nothing.

    5. You are more turned on by child sex than you let on

  72. Col. Mustafa — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:24 pm  

    Sad thing is i knew one of these cunts; guess what he was always a cunt.

  73. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:29 pm  

    Dude back in roman times it was natural for men aged 30 or 40 to get married to a 13 yr old.
    Ok lets go even further back than that, maybe to basically all of the civilisations before that one.

    How do you explain the 20th Century Islamic Revolution lowering the legal age to 9 during 1979? (Which eventually bowed down to reformist ‘pressure’ and is now 14). When the Shah were in power it was 18.

    The problem is is when people in the modern age thinking they can live in the exactly the ways as they did 1400 years ago.

    But obviously pointing that out makes me an Islamophobic Muslim hater of epic proportions…

  74. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:30 pm  

    And completely off topic aswell…

  75. Vikrant — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:31 pm  

    Adaboy Mirax… Descending into virulent critque of Hinduism on other thread on my passing remark and justifying some medieval parctices. But this time you are right. Mohammed’s life should be viewed in the context of time,place and circumstances. Sames for casteism.

  76. DAtley — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:32 pm  

    Mirax i did not write those comments????

  77. Mirax — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:34 pm  

    Sorry,Datley. It was that twat Nukh. My apologies.

  78. Col. Mustafa — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:39 pm  

    “How do you explain the 20th Century Islamic Revolution lowering the legal age to 9 during 1979? (Which eventually bowed down to reformist ‘pressure’ and is now 14). When the Shah were in power it was 18.

    The problem is is when people in the modern age thinking they can live in the exactly the ways as they did 1400 years ago.

    But obviously pointing that out makes me an Islamophobic Muslim hater of epic proportions… ”

    Well i was referring to the formula of Prophet Muhammad = Paedofile innovater.

    So whatever happened in the 20th century regarding the age limit doesn’t have anything to do with the Prophet.
    He was acting for his people in his time.
    Nor do i have to explain anything to do with this either.

    But yes i agree with the fact that alot of the muslim world in this day and age do try and live or go back to the old ways 1400 yrs ago and its fucking annoying, especially since they don’t understand why they want to in the first place.

  79. Vikrant — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:41 pm  

    Mustafa your bang on da money.

  80. j0nz — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:41 pm  

    Thanks Col Mustafa. And I congratulate you on your efforts at the beginning of the 20th century for you visionary modernisation of which is now mordern day Turkey.

  81. Mirax — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:43 pm  

    Eh, it should be a attagirl.

    I do not remember a ‘virulent ‘ critique of hinduism but methinks you have a less than adequate grasp of the words virulent and critique. You yourself admitted numerous times you know nothing of hinduism, so we will not go there kiddo!

    Just what medieval practice have I justified? child-molest?
    You just proved my point about your powers of comprehension. Just concentrate on the GCSEs for now, Vik. One step at a time.

  82. Bikhair — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:44 pm  

    Sonia,

    “Bikhair and Indian Capitalist would get on! ( anyone who’s been hanging around the Guardian blogs will have heard of IC – if not..he’s pure comedy..) hehheh”

    I dont get it. If Indian Capitalist is a woman I would like to meet her. Even if she is a mushrik, I need some english associates.

  83. Col. Mustafa — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:45 pm  

    hehehe, @ jonz.

  84. Bikhair — on 23rd November, 2005 at 7:50 pm  

    Rohin,

    What kind of name is that?

    “Bikhair, you continue to baffle me with your drivel.”

    I am the great baffler.

    “As if calling America lovely wasn’t daft enough..”

    Aside from its major kufr, America is a lovely country. We have alot of oppurtunities here. I just wish they were tempered with at least some strict Christian fundamentalism, so I could feel more at home. LoL.

    “..you now claim all Muslims in American prisons have converted AFTER having got there! What complete poppycock.”

    Yes, I stand by it. Most Muslims in American prisons are converts and Afro-American. Most people in prison are Afro-American when you consider thier numbers in this country.

    And yes stupid I have heard of Gautanamo Bay but those arent American Muslims. They are not the american version of Muslims we are talking about on this thread, young Indo-Pak immigrant or children of immigrants.

    “… and a huge prison population across the country, consisting of a large amount of non-African American Muslims, I really have no idea where you get your nutty ideas from.”

    Huh?

  85. Rohin — on 23rd November, 2005 at 8:04 pm  

    Bikhair, I’m being kicked out of this Internet café, so very quickly:

    “Aside from its major kufr, America is a lovely country.”

    Yes, aside from killing all those women, Jack the Ripper was a top lad.

    “Most Muslims in American prisons are converts”

    Aha, now you say MOST. Next it’ll be A LOT. That’s classic signs of an argument based on bullshit. I’ll get you some figures. You initially said all MUslims in prison were converts AFTER going to jail, thus exonerating your religion. Crap.

    “Most people in prison are Afro-American”

    Also crap. Most American prisoners are white.

    As for my name, I guess you’ll just have to wonder.

  86. Soniyeh — on 23rd November, 2005 at 8:16 pm  

    I hope those bastards get whats coming to them.

  87. Bikhair — on 23rd November, 2005 at 10:17 pm  

    Rohin,

    Get a grip Oreo.

    “Aha, now you say MOST. Next it’ll be A LOT.”

    From this point on I will say most or the vast majority. Dont play semantics with me I wil run laps around you before I break a sweat.

    “Also crap. Most American prisoners are white.”

    Yes, but blacks in proportion to thier numbers in this country, 12% I believe, give or take a point, are the majority. Perhaps in a few generations they will be replaced by Pakistanis, Bengalis, and Somalis, doubt it though.

  88. Sunny — on 23rd November, 2005 at 11:31 pm  

    Lol, it looks like the same crowd who kept screaming “oh the French riots have something to do with Islam” are screaming again about religion being involved.

    Who are you trying to convince here j0nz / nukh? Others or yourself? Every single Asian on here can see its a racist attack because we’re not making excuses. We know Asians or all religions can be racist. Hell I’ve been on Pakistani TV and said that they need to be stop being racist to Africans before complaining of being victims of racism.

    By coming here and banging your traditional “looks its Islam” drum, firstly you make yourself look foolish. I think that has been comprehensively established. Secondly it creates a foul atmosphere. Here we are united against racism and saying that this killing was wrong, and some twat has to come on here with their own bigoted agenda and start pushing religion related theories.

    I don’t really want to be posting examples of paedophilia that the Catholic Church hid for decades, or white men in foreign countries being arrested for trafficking young boys. It just sullies the environment. Take some lessons from Steve M (or Robert). They always make sense.

  89. Siddharth — on 24th November, 2005 at 12:19 am  

    I don’t really want to be posting examples of paedophilia that the Catholic Church hid for decades, or white men in foreign countries being arrested for trafficking young boys.

    The anathema followed by counter-anathema form of blog debate is getting boring now and a bit long in the tooth.

    Didn’t want to post the Gary Glitter reference for anything other than to show an example of this debate style in an ironic way. Looks like it backfired. oh well.

  90. Tanvir — on 24th November, 2005 at 1:54 am  

    need siberia style-labour camps for people like this

  91. shihab — on 24th November, 2005 at 5:40 am  

    mummy mummy do they celebrate christmas in vietnam?

    no, but I hear they’re hanging glitter this year

  92. El Cid — on 24th November, 2005 at 2:43 pm  

    Now that WAS funny

  93. Jai Singh — on 24th November, 2005 at 2:44 pm  

    Bikhair,

    Your views would have greater credibility here on PP if you didn’t attempt to underscore them by repeatedly resorting to verbal abuse, such as “Oreo”, “Stupid”, “Kafir” etc.

    Tone it down, not just as a matter of basic respect & courtesy towards the other people you’re talking to, but also to prevent you from inadvertantly undermining your own position by resorting to such unnecessary tactics.

  94. gutted — on 24th November, 2005 at 3:30 pm  

    I went to school with Christopher Yates and feel as though I have to have my two pennies worth.
    What happened to him on that fateful night was downright disgraceful and anybody capable of inflicting such injury on another human being should never be allowed to rejoin civilised society. At this point, it is worth adding that his head was kicked with such ferocity that many eyewitnesses thought a football was being kicked around.
    In my opinion, therefore, it matters not whether this crime was race or faith fuelled as these 3 men should never be released from prison, as life should mean life.

    The lack of media coverage of this crime is a disgrace – I’m in no doubt that what happened to Anthony Walker and Stephen Lawrence were equally as awful acts, but I can’t understand why they get blanket coverage in the press and this is not even gracing the pages of some newspapers. Am I meant to think that crimes against young white men/women are not worthy of our attention?
    RIP Christopher and lets hope that the three big men above (as they must be big and brave to kick a man in the head when he’s already unconscious) get whats coming to them at her majesty’s pleasure.

  95. Rohin — on 24th November, 2005 at 3:34 pm  

    Quite right Jai. Don’t resort to name-calling. If you want to ridicule my beliefs as I ridicule yours, fine.

    First up, an Oreo is a derogatory term aimed at black people and unless used by a black person, it’s rather racist.

    “From this point on I will say most or the vast majority. Dont play semantics with me I wil run laps around you before I break a sweat.”

    No, you won’t. My English is better than yours and I have a better grip on the use of language, displayed by you altering your argument on two occasions. I deliberately highlighted your erroneous view that most prisoners in America are black because I knew you MEANT to say ‘in proportion to their nationwide population’, but you weren’t clear.

    What it does reveal it your poorly-veiled racism. You’ve attempted to turn this into a discussion about black people and crime. You seek to expunge any misdeeds from Islam, claiming that the Muslims in prison are black, post-incarceration converts.

    A muslim is a muslim is a muslim.

    How pathetic of you to try to distinguish between them and other Muslims, that goes against the whole sentiment of the religion.

    As I explained above, in proportion to the national populations, Buddhists are the most over-represented religion in British jails. To try to extrapolate that Buddhists are the most troublesome group in Britain is patent nonsense. Hence trying to draw any conclusions from numbers of black people in American prisons is equally ludicrous. Amnesty International has shown that if you are black and in America, you are more likely to be imprisoned and more likely to be executed. Muslim or not.

    You, Bikhair, are a bigot and a racist.

  96. Bikhair — on 24th November, 2005 at 3:48 pm  

    Rohin,

    Yes, I am a racist. I am writing my check to the BNP and sending the KKK a money order.

    “You seek to expunge any misdeeds from Islam, claiming that the Muslims in prison are black, post-incarceration converts.”

    Islam doesnt have misdeeds but Muslims certainly do. Sajid Zulfiqar, 25, Zahid Bashir, 23, and Imran Maqsood, 21, of Ilford, east London are but a few.

    My original comments were addressed my to jOnz who implied that because Pakis, Somalis, and Bangis are Muslim they are overrepresented in prison. Now this may be the case in Britian, but this certainly isnt the case in the U.S.A, because the majority of men in prison are blacks. Those Muslims who are incarcerated are converts.

  97. Rohin — on 24th November, 2005 at 3:52 pm  

    Why does it matter that they are converts? Surely someone as arrogant as you should be calling them REverts?

    I’m glad you admit to being a racist, we’ve all known it for quite a while. The only reason we haven’t banned you is cos you’re so funny.

    And kindly refrain from using the word Paki, that’s what racists sa….oh wait, go right ahead.

  98. Chris — on 24th November, 2005 at 5:11 pm  

    Well it looks as though these guys have been sentenced to “life” – minimum 15 years.
    Judge decided it was NOT racist.

    Obviously none of us was at the trial, but I think we would probably all agree that if the murderers had been white and the victim Asian that it would have been likely that (a) far more widely covered and (b) covered as a race hate crime.

    Not sure what to think really…

  99. Chris — on 24th November, 2005 at 5:13 pm  

    PS – why should a “racist” murderer get 30 years and an “ordinary” murderer get only 15?
    What is the logic of this differentiation – other than to annoy?

  100. El Cid — on 24th November, 2005 at 5:18 pm  

    Gutted
    Why don’t you write to the head of news at the BBC, ITN, etc?
    Or why don’t you write to progressive papers like The Guardian and The Independent and politely ask the editors why they dedicate fewer column inches to racist crimes inflicted on white people?
    I’m not saying that they definitely do — it needs to be researched carefully — but my general impression is that you are probably right to be angry.

  101. Chris — on 24th November, 2005 at 5:34 pm  

    I generally try to avoid getting angry (for more than a few seconds) about stuff – otherwise I would probably be dead by now!

  102. Vikrant — on 24th November, 2005 at 6:05 pm  

    far point El Cid. But most around here may not agree.

  103. Siddharth — on 24th November, 2005 at 6:12 pm  

    Vikrant: Probably best for everyone, not least your own credibility, that you don’t presume what people ‘around here’ may or may not agree on on their behalf.

  104. Vikrant — on 24th November, 2005 at 6:19 pm  

    Point taken

  105. Geezer — on 24th November, 2005 at 7:29 pm  

    Chris I thought the media covered the sentencing of these savages quite well today it was the first news to be read out [London tonight, Sky News and ITV]. One thing is though there was little mention before of them attacking others which included a black man and a Pakistani waiter until they were sentenced. Anyway 15 years is a very long time and being in their mid early to mid 20′s that’s pretty much most of joyous years of adult being spent behind bars.

    I hope they meet people in prison who will crack their heads open like they did to poor Christopher.

    Once again RIP Christopher Yates

  106. Target — on 24th November, 2005 at 7:40 pm  

    The thing about this “they killed, they drank alcohol during Ramadan – they clearly aren’t Muslim” argument is who decides if one is or isn’t’ Muslim?

    Did these thugs think that they are Muslim? Do they still consider themselves to be Muslim now? They certainly considered it bad that they had been caught drinking during Ramadan.

    I would hazard that if they thought that they were Muslim, they are Muslim.

    Q. In the eyes of these thugs was the crime of breaking Ramadan worse than killing a non-Muslim?

    Q In the eyes of a strict observer of Islam believe that drinking during Ramadan is worse than killing a non-Muslim.

    I would like to believe that any reasonable person would consider murder to be a worse crime than ANY failing of religious duty.

    So who decides if they are Muslim? if a Muslim man is considered Muslim until he shames Islam, then Islam conveniently will never include terrorists, thugs or violent criminals.

    I am shamed by my peers that back and believe in the ideals of BNP, but I cannot exclude them from being “white”.

  107. Target — on 24th November, 2005 at 8:18 pm  

    Was this a racial attack? It is argued that it could not be so because they attacked an “Asian man”, the implication being he was “one of their own”.

    If this “Asian man” turned out to be Hindu, then all the victims are most likely to be non-Muslim.

    If so we have a group of Muslim males rampaging and attacking non-Muslims. Then it is not a series of racial attacks, but a series of religiously motivated attacks.

    Therefore I would argue that they are “Islamo-fascists”, irrespective of their diligence in performing religious duties.

    It is impossible to tell, but this could be all about religious education, if not religion itself.

  108. John Barnes — on 24th November, 2005 at 8:50 pm  

    I am slightly miffed about the use of catholic paedophile scandals within this thread to back up arguments as if there was some sort of statistical correlation between Catholicism and kiddie fiddling. Although the site people bitch about all Muslims being tarnished with same brush because of the actions of a few irresponsible individuals (Not that I am denying that this happens) and then EXACTLY the same thing is done regards child abuse in the Catholic Church. I am not denying that paedophiles do exist among Catholic clergy or that sexual abuse of minors took place, but that these actions were the result the deed of a very small minority of Catholic priests, in the same way that the blowing up of a tubes does not mean that all Muslims strap themselves up with semtex on the morning ride to work. There is alot of talk of ‘Islamaphobia’ but I believe in this country there still exists a certain amount of anti-Catholicism, not that this has been expressed with the same amount of hate that has been poured on some other religious groups, but an underlying feeling nonetheless.

  109. El Cid — on 24th November, 2005 at 9:33 pm  

    I know what you mean Barnesy. I happen to a be a Catholic myself (the non-practising condom-using type). I was tempted to comment earlier, but I decided to let it go. I’m not a PC bore. But Catholics hear such jibes all the time within the white community, usually in the form of attempted and tiresome humour.
    I can only imagine that many Asians don’t witness that because…. I dunno, maybe the kind of white people who joke about “Catholic kiddie fiddling priests” are also the kind who obsess about race, etc. So they bite their tongue in the presence of someone with something as obviously different as skin colour.
    Of course, Catholocism is a broad church of many races and 1 billion people. But that’s not my point.

  110. Target — on 24th November, 2005 at 10:24 pm  

    There was an article in the paper recently that declared that ’8 in 10′ Chinese working in this country first loyalty was to China, not to Britain or the company they worked for AND THEY ARE ALL SPIES!!! Don’t trust them, kick them form your company!!! Watch them at all times!!!! THEY CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!!

    Personally I’m amazed that this blatant racial slur is allowed to be uttered.

    Could it be that they, like modern Catholics they aren’t litigious and constant aggressors demanding that they are being discriminated against, victims of society?

    I suggest that the Catholics and Chinese start making a angry noises about discrimination, then our modern day liberals will refuse to acknowledge any association that make “upset you”, “make you feel like a victim”.

    They you can condone those that take extreme action and in the same breath “but I can understand why”.

    It’s your own fault for being to reasonable and showing tolerance to criticism and bad press.

  111. jamal — on 24th November, 2005 at 11:47 pm  

    These idiots got their just desserts. Lets hope the axe killers of the black boy get the same. For once its good to see that the range of murders are being publicised.

  112. Lurker — on 25th November, 2005 at 2:20 am  

    As was pointed out by someone earlier. One set of killers have got 15 years the others will likely get 30.

  113. Sunny — on 25th November, 2005 at 3:33 am  

    Is there any evidence to suggest that there wasn’t blanket coverage regarding this murder? I’ve seen it mentioned pretty much everywhere.

    John Barnes:
    Although the site people bitch about all Muslims being tarnished with same brush because of the actions of a few irresponsible individuals (Not that I am denying that this happens) and then EXACTLY the same thing is done regards child abuse in the Catholic Church

    Yes, and it was done to prove that point exactly – we’re all sick of being tarred with the same brush because of the actions of a few.

    Anyway – I’m a bit miffed the judge decided it wasn’t a racist murder. They may have attacked other people, but that doesn’t preclude them from being racist. In such a horrific murder, they should have easily got 20 or more.

  114. TottenhamLad — on 25th November, 2005 at 11:10 am  

    Sunny:

    Is there any evidence to suggest that there wasn’t blanket coverage regarding this murder? I’ve seen it mentioned pretty much everywhere.

    Hey Sunny left your brain at home?

    Google (UK) search for:
    +”Christopher Yates” +Murder = 142 results
    +”Anthony Walker” +Murder = 102,000 results

    Explanation?

  115. Target — on 25th November, 2005 at 11:43 am  

    Reasons for widespread coverage of Anthony Walker:

    1) The murder was particularly nasty, there was an axe involved.

    2) It was clearly a racial attack, they provoked him and then hunted him down later in the Park.

    3) He was a “good boy”, worked hard, top of his class, had “as many white friends as black”

    These three things add up to a sensational story: “everything that is wrong with the world today”

    Had he been an immigrant kicked in the head to death,been a member of a violent black gang, we would have not heard much about it at all.

    The Christopher Walker case doesn’t fit into any stereo type crime, the newspaper editors don’t know what line to take here, there isn’t a market for “morale outrage at racial murders of white men”.

    Should the racial murder of white men continue and stop being isolated cases, should the reading public get used it this and start saying “oh no! not again!” you’ll see better coverage.

    The truth is papers write what the public want to hear, we don’t want to hear about racial murders of white people.

    I would also suggest there is an addtional reason that they don’t write about “rampaging Muslims attack the kafr”, because other than the moral outrage, there is the real fear of genuine death threats.

  116. Chris — on 25th November, 2005 at 11:45 am  

    It was covered more or less as widely as many other violent murders.
    However the contrast most people are drawing is with Anthony Walker, whose murder has had extraordinarily extensive and prominent coverage.
    There probably is some PC element in this.
    On the other hand I suspect that the Yates murder would have been more widely covered had he too been a schoolboy rather than 30 years old.

  117. Target — on 25th November, 2005 at 11:56 am  

    to countinue the agruement above the thing about the Catholic priest thing is … it’s “oh no! not again”

  118. TottenhamLad — on 25th November, 2005 at 12:08 pm  

    Target:

    Reasons for widespread coverage of Anthony Walker:

    1) The murder was particularly nasty, there was an axe involved.

    2) It was clearly a racial attack, they provoked him and then hunted him down later in the Park.

    3) He was a “good boy”, worked hard, top of his class, had “as many white friends as black”

    These three things add up to a sensational story: “everything that is wrong with the world today”

    Remember Mary-Ann Leneghan

    Google (UK) search for:
    +”Mary-Ann Leneghan” +murder = 496 results

    1) Gang raped, tortured, murdered

    2) She was ‘White’, her murderers were a ‘diverse’, ‘culturally enhancing’, pack of animal scum of non-english extraction.

    3) Press conference quote: “Mary-Ann was a normal, bright 16-year-old who was bubbly and happy-go-lucky”

    (Though Target I agree with most of your comment)

  119. sonia — on 25th November, 2005 at 12:18 pm  

    the media are generally biased. towards a hard sell. unfortunately thats the political economy which we operate within – which is why we need more indy media! The race point is a valid one – the media will cover stories they think will cause the biggest hoo-ha, but race isn’t the only factor.

    All sorts of other stories which ought to be featured aren’t.
    and in any case, often with most broadcast media, one has to be highly sceptical in general..

  120. Target — on 25th November, 2005 at 12:30 pm  

    Tottenhamlad, I’m ashamed to say that Mary-Ann Leneghan past me by.

    I guess that it was down to a lack of media coverage, that or I was on holiday or something.

    Point well made.

  121. Target — on 25th November, 2005 at 12:47 pm  

    Actually I’m not so sure. The question is where they racially motivated crimes? Was fact that Mary-Ann Leneghan was white and that her attackers weren’t important? This is the core question that is important it to me. Where these guys above selecting non-Muslims to attack? Who where the rapists, and where they selecting a specific group or just anyone that crossed their path irrespective of creed, colour or religion?

    Even if they were is this an issue? The answer only if its systemic of a greater wider issue of hate of other group.

    To take a Christain hate view, almost all right wing Christains don’t condone of the murder of abortion workers, but some consider it justice for what they have been doing.

  122. Sunny — on 25th November, 2005 at 2:32 pm  

    Tottenham Lad – I was hoping for something slightly more sophisticated.

    On average it takes about 6 days for a news story mentioned in Google News to be indexed by Google search engine. Secondly, even posts like this one haven’t been indexed by Google yet.

    Thirdly, the Anthony Walker case was extended for a bit. The perpetrators were firstly on the run, then the perpetrator’s well known brother made an appeal. Then the kids pleaded not-guilty, and the case went on for a bit (with everyone accusing each other). Therefore the coverage dragged out.

    Here, it was open and shut. Caught trying to flee the country, and banged up – the press couldn’t say much about the guilty lot in order to avoid prejudicing the trial otherwise they can be in contempt of court.

    There are a lot more racist murders (against minorities too believe it or not) that go unnoticed or unheard of. We can’t predict how the press will react.

  123. TottenhamLad — on 25th November, 2005 at 3:58 pm  

    Sunny:

    Being a working class Englishman born and bred in Tottenham sophistication dosn’t come easy…

    But you obviously are happy that you know why that for every reference from a Google search in the UK to Christopher Yates there are 718 references to Anthony Walker.

    1:718

    I’ll just wait six days, like you suggest, for the ratio to decrease.

    PS Interesting website you here – your original article was a lot more honest and forthright than the BBC.

  124. Sunny — on 25th November, 2005 at 4:16 pm  

    I’m not denying there is a liberal-guilt mentality. In fact I find it annoying sometimes because it stops us Asians and Africans to stop confronting racism within our midst because we constantly paint ourselves as the victims.

    But as I said there are more reasons than just that mentality for the skewed figures, unless you’re suggesting that the Daily Mail and Telegraph etc also behave the same. I mighht be wrong but I’m fairly confident that the Daily Mail also put Anthony Walker on its front page. I think the BBC article simply reflected the naive thinking of the judge.

  125. criminal record — on 29th November, 2005 at 12:14 am  

    haha someone needs a spliff

  126. Antiflow — on 29th November, 2005 at 1:26 pm  

    TottenhamLad

    Richard Burns former world rally champion died the otherday, aged 34 for a brain tumour, I haven’t even seen it mentioned in the press much.

    George Best on the other hand, ..yup overkill.

    Why?, mainly because people will talk about it, mainly English whites for that matter, especially from his era.

    Never forget that the press is there for you. It’s there for your attention. What the people focus on is what you will get. For the most part your perception willl turn out to be your reality, no matter how screwed up it is.

    The reason that lad has rarely been focused on in the media is because of the people they sell it too. People like you and me for instants.

    What about that girl who got stabbed in the neck and paralyzed by that drug casualty? Again overkill, I never stop hearing about the kid.

    Then again hearing about peole getting blown up, stabbed, murdered, racially murdered which is exactly the same as just being murdered regardless of the reason, isn’t really my idea of a society that wants it’s citizens to feel comfortable with their own lifes.

    And other thing, I never hear about Northern kids, adults who go missing, or who are killed, but if they’re from the south I’m damn right guaranteed to hear about it wherever I happen to be in the country.

    I’d imagine that Christopher Yates family is happy that his death isn’t been used to push some racial or political agenda, or otherwise. Thankfully he can rest in peace unlike some. Who’s deaths seem to change the face and laws of the land. Like the ones in London for example awhile back.

  127. Janey — on 10th December, 2005 at 10:35 pm  

    The Times ran an article about Christopher Yates. Not exactly front page and a little late, here it is.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1901952,00.html

    I mentioned it on billy braggs website , it lasted about an hour then was removed and I was banned.

  128. JazbatI__Nadeem — on 13th March, 2006 at 6:46 am  

    well: I think these kind of things are ignited by the hate between the societies. In White majority areas in UK Blacks, browns are hooted at and thrown sharp comments. These people come from all over the world to UK or USA to work and provide for there poor families back home. So naturally they reside in the slums of the society. only 2% from india, pakistan, bangladesh etc can afford to study in uk.
    All crime comes from these widely exposed to racism slum dwellers.
    It is mutual hate, carried on for centuries. The whites can never give up there whitness and there history tells a sorrow story of keeping the black slaves.
    so; friends: the churning residing hate for whites in the hearts of the non-whites is always there and shall remain unchanged.
    whenever a Yates is caught unguarded a unsion of hate lovers will bash his head just to avenge there forefathers and maybe them selves.
    The inferior complex that has been marketed amongst the non-whites through media is also a vital hate inspirer. non-whites are less beautiful and handsome, the whites are sexier, hotter and better in every way. ???? I personally heard these statements while in UK and was amazed how the media can change the mind set of generations through a cast tube technology.

    The Iraq war is another racist attack of whites upon nonwhites. hundreds of people have felt a new found hate for whites within there hearts and if people you are caught in a dark parking lot or an alley offguard and 3-4 young men are kicking you to pieces shouting that you have murdered there people and you are a enemy no 1 to them and that you have taken there homes and food and murdered there children, dont be astonished, it is the price that one pays for a greater cause for ones own race.

    The media and the leaderships can only unwind these race differences and eliminate it once and for all. ciao:::)))

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