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	<title>Comments on: Is the Sikh community on the brink of crisis?</title>
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	<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160</link>
	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-2#comment-5074</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-5074</guid>
		<description>David - I&#039;d say it is either them or an offshoot, or someone copying them, which is why this is why it may turn into a serious problem in the future. The Amardeep Bassey doc above mentions Ubhi I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211; I&#8217;d say it is either them or an offshoot, or someone copying them, which is why this is why it may turn into a serious problem in the future. The Amardeep Bassey doc above mentions Ubhi I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Buggsy</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-2#comment-5062</link>
		<dc:creator>Buggsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-5062</guid>
		<description>People like Sunny should be leading the Sikh People. He know it all.

Big up to Sunny!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People like Sunny should be leading the Sikh People. He know it all.</p>
<p>Big up to Sunny!</p>
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		<title>By: Mirax</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-2#comment-4794</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4794</guid>
		<description>David, my point in post #20 was about the tendency in the community not to involve the police in such matters. It is probably seen as family quarrel and there may exist a naive belief that pressing charges may escalate rather than calm the situation. The upshot of such thinking is that the violent perps get away with their thuggery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, my point in post #20 was about the tendency in the community not to involve the police in such matters. It is probably seen as family quarrel and there may exist a naive belief that pressing charges may escalate rather than calm the situation. The upshot of such thinking is that the violent perps get away with their thuggery.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4789</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4789</guid>
		<description>Interesting that the incident took place in Leamington Spa. Remember the violent disruption of a Sikh wedding &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1515544,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;earlier this year&lt;/a&gt; by a group from Leamington calling themselves the Respect to Guru Granth Sahibji Campaign? Led by a fellow called Jaswinder Singh Ubhi? They were an &quot;any means necessary&quot; kind of group. 

Obviously not wanting to point the finger at such an early stage, but I wonder if the police have been in touch with them yet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that the incident took place in Leamington Spa. Remember the violent disruption of a Sikh wedding <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1515544,00.html" rel="nofollow">earlier this year</a> by a group from Leamington calling themselves the Respect to Guru Granth Sahibji Campaign? Led by a fellow called Jaswinder Singh Ubhi? They were an &#8220;any means necessary&#8221; kind of group. </p>
<p>Obviously not wanting to point the finger at such an early stage, but I wonder if the police have been in touch with them yet?</p>
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		<title>By: blue mountain</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4764</link>
		<dc:creator>blue mountain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4764</guid>
		<description>I admire the openness and tolerance of Sikh religion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admire the openness and tolerance of Sikh religion</p>
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		<title>By: blue mountain</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4763</link>
		<dc:creator>blue mountain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4763</guid>
		<description>Gurdwaras are supposed to open to people of all religions. Now that Jatt and non - jatt thing is scary.

In Sikkim they have built a new mosque and guess what .Fisticuffs and violence between the Deobandis and Barelvis over the control of the mosque !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gurdwaras are supposed to open to people of all religions. Now that Jatt and non &#8211; jatt thing is scary.</p>
<p>In Sikkim they have built a new mosque and guess what .Fisticuffs and violence between the Deobandis and Barelvis over the control of the mosque !!!</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4762</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4762</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I really don’t know how the genius of Sikhism ended with such a ill suited people…..&lt;/i&gt;

Lmao! So true. After Guru Gobind Singh ji its just gone downhill really hasn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I really don’t know how the genius of Sikhism ended with such a ill suited people…..</i></p>
<p>Lmao! So true. After Guru Gobind Singh ji its just gone downhill really hasn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Uncleji  ranting part 2</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4761</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncleji  ranting part 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4761</guid>
		<description>&quot;The role of the Akal Takht is to facilitate the consensus-building process within the Sikh community &quot;

Well said though I thought the only body empowered to make decisions is the collective Khalsa.

Sunny has hit on the head its a struggle for power and resources that it just typically tribal Punjabi.
I really don&#039;t know how the genius of Sikhism ended with such a ill suited people.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The role of the Akal Takht is to facilitate the consensus-building process within the Sikh community &#8221;</p>
<p>Well said though I thought the only body empowered to make decisions is the collective Khalsa.</p>
<p>Sunny has hit on the head its a struggle for power and resources that it just typically tribal Punjabi.<br />
I really don&#8217;t know how the genius of Sikhism ended with such a ill suited people&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: blue mountain</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4760</link>
		<dc:creator>blue mountain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4760</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what I meant Uncleji !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what I meant Uncleji !!</p>
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		<title>By: Uncleji  ranting</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4757</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncleji  ranting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4757</guid>
		<description>1)  I can&#039;t think of a Gurdwara that is run by Khalistanis compared to the good old days of the 1980&#039;s &amp; ISYF running the show taking the sangat&#039;s donations to pay for arms for millitants. I know that Park Avenue in Southall has a nice big mural of 1984, but thats more a sop to vocal sentiment.

2) Violence is not the exclusive or even mostly the preserve of the young &quot;radicals&quot;. The Singh Sabha in Southall been the sign of fistcuffs between conservative factions and in another West London (non-jat)  Gurdwara
the younger modernising members of the commitee left after threats of volience against them and their families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1)  I can&#8217;t think of a Gurdwara that is run by Khalistanis compared to the good old days of the 1980&#8217;s &amp; ISYF running the show taking the sangat&#8217;s donations to pay for arms for millitants. I know that Park Avenue in Southall has a nice big mural of 1984, but thats more a sop to vocal sentiment.</p>
<p>2) Violence is not the exclusive or even mostly the preserve of the young &#8220;radicals&#8221;. The Singh Sabha in Southall been the sign of fistcuffs between conservative factions and in another West London (non-jat)  Gurdwara<br />
the younger modernising members of the commitee left after threats of volience against them and their families.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncleji  Stalin</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4754</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncleji  Stalin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4754</guid>
		<description>Vladmir &amp; Blue Mountain that quote in context. 

&quot;Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.&quot;

Commuism is the drug of choice for intellectual spacecadets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vladmir &amp; Blue Mountain that quote in context. </p>
<p>&#8220;Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Commuism is the drug of choice for intellectual spacecadets.</p>
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		<title>By: Jagdeep</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4551</link>
		<dc:creator>Jagdeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4551</guid>
		<description>Firstly, agree with Mandip&#039;s comments; Sikhs in the early 20th Century demonstrated we could still get  results without resorting to any sort of violence - the Gurduara Reform movement should be used as a Case Study by these people.

Secondly, on the point of &#039;edicts&#039; and such by the Akal Takht - there is no pre-20th Century precedent for any &#039;edicts&#039; being passed by individuals within the Sikh community. The role of the Akal Takht is to facilitate the consensus-building process within the Sikh community via the protocol of Gurmatta, not for a one (or five) man band to conjure up their own &#039;edicts&#039; - they have absolutely no authority !

As a technical point, the Jathedar of Akal Takhat, popularly referred to as the High Priest, or Pope of the Sikh faith, who nowadays is the person issuing such &#039;edicts&#039;, is infact merely a paid employee of the SGPC and can be hired or fired at the whims of his/her political masters - i.e. the Akali Dal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, agree with Mandip&#8217;s comments; Sikhs in the early 20th Century demonstrated we could still get  results without resorting to any sort of violence &#8211; the Gurduara Reform movement should be used as a Case Study by these people.</p>
<p>Secondly, on the point of &#8216;edicts&#8217; and such by the Akal Takht &#8211; there is no pre-20th Century precedent for any &#8216;edicts&#8217; being passed by individuals within the Sikh community. The role of the Akal Takht is to facilitate the consensus-building process within the Sikh community via the protocol of Gurmatta, not for a one (or five) man band to conjure up their own &#8216;edicts&#8217; &#8211; they have absolutely no authority !</p>
<p>As a technical point, the Jathedar of Akal Takhat, popularly referred to as the High Priest, or Pope of the Sikh faith, who nowadays is the person issuing such &#8216;edicts&#8217;, is infact merely a paid employee of the SGPC and can be hired or fired at the whims of his/her political masters &#8211; i.e. the Akali Dal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jai Singh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4519</link>
		<dc:creator>Jai Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4519</guid>
		<description>Mandip is correct.

Also, the term &quot;edict&quot; is different in Sikhism to what it is in Islam, certainly with regards to the more negative connotations of the term &quot;fatwa&quot;.

The Vatican also issues edicts, but one does not refer to them as &quot;fatwas&quot; either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandip is correct.</p>
<p>Also, the term &#8220;edict&#8221; is different in Sikhism to what it is in Islam, certainly with regards to the more negative connotations of the term &#8220;fatwa&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Vatican also issues edicts, but one does not refer to them as &#8220;fatwas&#8221; either.</p>
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		<title>By: Mandip</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4516</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4516</guid>
		<description>Al-Hack - No the SGPC does not have the authority to issue religous edicts, only the Akal Tahkt can do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al-Hack &#8211; No the SGPC does not have the authority to issue religous edicts, only the Akal Tahkt can do that.</p>
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		<title>By: blue mountain</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4509</link>
		<dc:creator>blue mountain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 05:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4509</guid>
		<description>The only person to won the Nobel prize for Pakistan was an Ahmediya( Professor Abdus Salam ).In November 1996 when Professor Abdus Salam’s body arrived in Pakistan for burial, the Pakistani state chose &lt;b&gt;to ignore the event, fearful that any official recognition would invite the wrath of religious fundamentalists.&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only person to won the Nobel prize for Pakistan was an Ahmediya( Professor Abdus Salam ).In November 1996 when Professor Abdus Salam’s body arrived in Pakistan for burial, the Pakistani state chose <b>to ignore the event, fearful that any official recognition would invite the wrath of religious fundamentalists.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Al-Hack</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4479</link>
		<dc:creator>Al-Hack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4479</guid>
		<description>A fatwa is a religious edict. The SGPC do issue edicts, do they not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fatwa is a religious edict. The SGPC do issue edicts, do they not?</p>
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		<title>By: Jai Singh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4434</link>
		<dc:creator>Jai Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4434</guid>
		<description>=&gt;&quot;Why do u need fatwa from SGPC ? &quot;

The concept of &#039;fatwas&#039; does not exist within Sikhism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>=&gt;&#8221;Why do u need fatwa from SGPC ? &#8221;</p>
<p>The concept of &#8216;fatwas&#8217; does not exist within Sikhism.</p>
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		<title>By: Vikrant</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4432</link>
		<dc:creator>Vikrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4432</guid>
		<description>err.. that should read &lt;i&gt; dialogue with islamists&lt;/i&gt; up there</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>err.. that should read <i> dialogue with islamists</i> up there</p>
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		<title>By: Mirax</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4431</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4431</guid>
		<description>Amnesty International will not quite agree that the qadianis are being let off lightly in Pakistan but what the hell are AI,the UN declaration of human rights,the US bill of rights etc but the imposition of western political dominance eh?

&quot;dominance of these countries after the Second World War that such ideas found their way into the various UN charters and conventions. &quot;

For the whole article: http://alhafeez.org/rashid/yusuf_smith.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amnesty International will not quite agree that the qadianis are being let off lightly in Pakistan but what the hell are AI,the UN declaration of human rights,the US bill of rights etc but the imposition of western political dominance eh?</p>
<p>&#8220;dominance of these countries after the Second World War that such ideas found their way into the various UN charters and conventions. &#8221;</p>
<p>For the whole article: <a href="http://alhafeez.org/rashid/yusuf_smith.html" rel="nofollow">http://alhafeez.org/rashid/yusuf_smith.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mirax</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160/comment-page-1#comment-4430</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/160#comment-4430</guid>
		<description>Sunny, you may want to give benefit of doubt to bigots, I don&#039;t.
I do not weasel over words either- advocate, justify, whatever. Hate is hate.Incitement to murder need not be in this you-shall-kill-soandso-form that you seem to require before you deign to condemn.

For me this phrase does it: the Qadianis have got off lightly in Pakistan. 

&quot;Read any account of the Qadianis&#039; behaviour in Pakistan, and you will discover that they are a vile, diabolical sect whose &quot;civilised&quot; front is just that - a front. Given the way the Sahaba reacted to the early false Prophets in the Arabian peninsula, one can only conclude that the Qadianis have got off lightly in Pakistan. They still exist, and the Pakistani government does not allow them to call themselves Muslims because they are not Muslims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunny, you may want to give benefit of doubt to bigots, I don&#8217;t.<br />
I do not weasel over words either- advocate, justify, whatever. Hate is hate.Incitement to murder need not be in this you-shall-kill-soandso-form that you seem to require before you deign to condemn.</p>
<p>For me this phrase does it: the Qadianis have got off lightly in Pakistan. </p>
<p>&#8220;Read any account of the Qadianis&#8217; behaviour in Pakistan, and you will discover that they are a vile, diabolical sect whose &#8220;civilised&#8221; front is just that &#8211; a front. Given the way the Sahaba reacted to the early false Prophets in the Arabian peninsula, one can only conclude that the Qadianis have got off lightly in Pakistan. They still exist, and the Pakistani government does not allow them to call themselves Muslims because they are not Muslims.</p>
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