jai the more seriously you take Sardar jokes, the more they will come back to bite your ass. Shrug it off gracefully, show your opponent you don’t care, and that will show him/her what a low-life they are, that’s the way to do these things.

( not the sudanese way of making a fuss, which has only ensured that a large no. of teddy’s across the UK are suddenly being called Mohammed).

“Yeah quite a few, especially in Glasgow where I’m from.”

Oh, South Asians with Scottish accents? That’s very exotic.

“But I make Gujji jokes to my Gujarati friends and they don’t get angry.”

Come to my hood, and we’ll see about that…

Yeah quite a few, especially in Glasgow where I’m from.

Low level bigotry is a problem, I agree. Jai is clearly quite sensitive to sardar jokes, and yes they piss me off too. But I make Gujji jokes to my Gujarati friends and they don’t get angry. If they made Punjabi jokes I wouldn’t care. Obviously, intention matters a lot.

The problem is that Rumbold, Kulvinder and I are talking about what should be legally permissible or not.

In this country – one can even legally make sick jokes about Jews in gas chambers. I believe Van Gogh made them in Netherlands too. That is probably about as insenitive as you can get but its legal. And that’s how it should be.

If you are inciting hatred though, then it should be legally looked at. Making fun/jokes are not inciting hatred.

It gets you down a slippery slope. As I’ve said before, a Sikh Human Rights Group actually wanted to take Gurpreet Bhatti (author of the play Behzti) for inciting hatred against Sikhs! I laughed in their face when they declared this and it didn’t go anywhere (for good reason).

End of story really.

Thanks for the reply. I hope everything is well with you. Best wishes.

If someone wants to make a joke about Sikhs, then its offensive but it shouldn’t be legally offensive, that’s the point. You just need a society that is sensible enough to condemn bigotry when its exposed.

In India, low level bigotry like this is irrelevant given the bigger context. So again, I’m not sure what you lot are arguing about and what the donkey bit has to do with anything. Or Hard Kaur. Wierd…”

I do think this is probably the most important debate you have had on PP.

Low-level bigotry is not irrelevant to the bigger context, it is a symptom of it. The goal is to get results in our day to day dealings.

“no I tell them second generation immigrant”

If you’re second generation, you’re not an immigrant

“But that just drew blank stares — cause I sure don’t ‘look’ Scottish –, and then I’d have to explain that my family was from Pakistan, blah blah blah.”

Word. I say I’m American, because hello, I was born and raised here, but alas, I don’t “look” American so without fail, people ask me, “Yes, but where are you REALLY from?” So then I have to explain, my parents are from India, blather blather, but sometimes I too just go ahead and say “Indian” even though the longest I’ve been in India in any given time has been 3 months. Or if I’m in a fiesty mood, I’ll strongly affirm, “No, look. I AM American, of Indian descent yes, but I am American nonetheless.”

Hey, are there lots of South Asians in Scotland? The only ones I know of is the Bhangra group Apna Sangeet.

The younger – mainly educated – Pakistanis I’ve met up here would probably self-describe themselves as Scottish, though it isn’t something that I’ve ever really heard discussed much. Where’s Anas when you need him?

I see myself as Scottish before I’m British. I even voted for the SNP ( a lot of that was to do with my hatred of Labour). But Scottishness is such a strong identity, and the people are — in general — welcoming so it’s hard not to get caught up in it.

It’s a bit strange at the moment tho. I’ve been living down in England for 7 months now and whenever people used to asked me where I was from I always replied Glasgow, or Scotland. But that just drew blank stares — cause I sure don’t ‘look’ Scottish –, and then I’d have to explain that my family was from Pakistan, blah blah blah. So now whenever anyone asks me, to save time I just say Pakistan and then if they want to know why I have such a strong Glaswegian accent I tell them to fuck off..no I tell them second generation immigrant blah blah blah. Saves time — but I still personally identify myself as Scottish because as a nation Scotland played the greatest role in forming my personality — for better or worse. So I’m stuck with being Scottish I guess.

In general, it is very difficult to prosecute websters because they can have their site anywhere in the world. Though I find it hard to compare someone who has a negative opinion about muslims or immigrants, with a psycho who writes lyrics praising beheadings. I wonder if the MCB would dismiss a neo-nazi writing lyrics about beheading muslims and learning terrorist tactics to target them, as “silly ideas”. The mind boggles.

“By coincidence, the same exact number of anti-Muslims, anti-immigrants, and pro-nativists, who write poetry in praise of beheadings and terrorism, and join extremist forums where they learn and hang out with the next terrorist that will strike our city.”

I don’t know about anti Muslim, racist, vile, and inciting violence type websters exist in England (and I am pretty sure that if you search, you will find them), but we’ve got our fair share here in the US. Rarely do they get shut down.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many websters that are not Islamists but clearly posting anti Muslim, anti immigrant, pro nativist, etc comments are getting busted under the terrorism laws.

By coincidence, the same exact number of anti-Muslims, anti-immigrants, and pro-nativists, who write poetry in praise of beheadings and terrorism, and join extremist forums where they learn and hang out with the next terrorist that will strike our city.

Give me the BNP any day.