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	<title>Comments on: Having a debate on first-cousin marriages</title>
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	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4908</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cool, thanks for explaining that Steve. and cheers for that info Jerry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool, thanks for explaining that Steve. and cheers for that info Jerry.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry C</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4904</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4904</guid>
		<description>I know of one British Sikh who has fallen in love with his first cousin, but his family and community are strongly opposed to their relationship.

As to the law, Ann Cryer has made it clear she is not seeking a legal prohibition. We will never have a prohibition of cousin marriages in the UK as that would be a gross infringement of the freedom of people to choose their spouse.

This is not however the case in the USA. There, just over half the states prohibit first cousin marriage, while the rest allow it, some with restrictions. There are no prohibitions on second cousins, though a few states prohbit first cousins once removed.

The most recent prohibition is in the state of Texas which (effective 5 September 2005) prohibits first cousin marriage and makes it a felony to have sexual intercourse with a first cousin. Of course there are many first cousins in Texas who were lawfully married prior to 5 September who now risk jail if they have sex with their spouse.

All potential first cousin partners who want to have children must take the gentic issues seriously. The risks vary considerably depending on ethnic group and family history. This is why all such partners should visit a genetic counsilor for a risk assesment. In the case of many serious recessive disorders (e.g Cystic Fibrois) it is possible to test for carrier status in advance. Only if both partners are carriers is the risk of the disease significant. Where both partners are carriers however the risk rises to 1 in 4. In such cases if the partners still wish to marry they will probably wish not to have children or consider donor insemination. Legally however the choice belongs to the people involved, the government cannot make such choices for people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know of one British Sikh who has fallen in love with his first cousin, but his family and community are strongly opposed to their relationship.</p>
<p>As to the law, Ann Cryer has made it clear she is not seeking a legal prohibition. We will never have a prohibition of cousin marriages in the UK as that would be a gross infringement of the freedom of people to choose their spouse.</p>
<p>This is not however the case in the USA. There, just over half the states prohibit first cousin marriage, while the rest allow it, some with restrictions. There are no prohibitions on second cousins, though a few states prohbit first cousins once removed.</p>
<p>The most recent prohibition is in the state of Texas which (effective 5 September 2005) prohibits first cousin marriage and makes it a felony to have sexual intercourse with a first cousin. Of course there are many first cousins in Texas who were lawfully married prior to 5 September who now risk jail if they have sex with their spouse.</p>
<p>All potential first cousin partners who want to have children must take the gentic issues seriously. The risks vary considerably depending on ethnic group and family history. This is why all such partners should visit a genetic counsilor for a risk assesment. In the case of many serious recessive disorders (e.g Cystic Fibrois) it is possible to test for carrier status in advance. Only if both partners are carriers is the risk of the disease significant. Where both partners are carriers however the risk rises to 1 in 4. In such cases if the partners still wish to marry they will probably wish not to have children or consider donor insemination. Legally however the choice belongs to the people involved, the government cannot make such choices for people.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Davies</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4364</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4364</guid>
		<description>Sunny - Royal families in Europe have historically tended to this pattern of marriage as well. The Spanish Habsburgs were the classic example, resulting in the hapless Carlos II (the Bewitched) whose back teeth in his lower jaw barely met the front teeth in his upper jaw. Another classic example were the Rothschilds who only married their cousins for several generations. That&#039;s different though from having a large portion of the population doing it because it&#039;s that which when you combine it with a high birth rate leads to very large extended kin groups with their members all related to each other.

Historically other parts of the world have had this marriage pattern but it has died out at various times (often with &#039;encouragement&#039;). One way of tracing this is the change in the way languages describe family and blood relationships. If there&#039;s a lot of cousin marriages then the language will tend to have a big vocabulary of words to distinguish between different kinds of aunts and uncles and cousins as opposed to just having a few words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunny &#8211; Royal families in Europe have historically tended to this pattern of marriage as well. The Spanish Habsburgs were the classic example, resulting in the hapless Carlos II (the Bewitched) whose back teeth in his lower jaw barely met the front teeth in his upper jaw. Another classic example were the Rothschilds who only married their cousins for several generations. That&#8217;s different though from having a large portion of the population doing it because it&#8217;s that which when you combine it with a high birth rate leads to very large extended kin groups with their members all related to each other.</p>
<p>Historically other parts of the world have had this marriage pattern but it has died out at various times (often with &#8216;encouragement&#8217;). One way of tracing this is the change in the way languages describe family and blood relationships. If there&#8217;s a lot of cousin marriages then the language will tend to have a big vocabulary of words to distinguish between different kinds of aunts and uncles and cousins as opposed to just having a few words.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4327</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4327</guid>
		<description>Steve - hnmmmm... that may be true, but a lot of societies in third world countries have famoly run dynasties... India being another example.
Interesting website though... it happens in Spain too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve &#8211; hnmmmm&#8230; that may be true, but a lot of societies in third world countries have famoly run dynasties&#8230; India being another example.<br />
Interesting website though&#8230; it happens in Spain too?</p>
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		<title>By: Opinionated Voice</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4320</link>
		<dc:creator>Opinionated Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4320</guid>
		<description>[...] Currently there is much conjecture over the &#8216;next best&#8217; option, which is to marry within the family. At this point it should be noted that much of the research that focuses on genetic problems has been considered over-exaggerated. However, whilst I do not in anyway seek to comment on the Islamic view on marrying Cousins, if one aspires to form new social ties, bonds and widen the social circle, marrying non-relations may be more preferable. The same can be said to those influenced to marry within their caste, or trailer park for that matter. What I&#8217;m saying is that marriage decisions should be primarily left to the choice of the individual, which is evidently distorted when parents and relatives make demands due to their hankerings of pride, materialism and greed.  Tech Tags: Marriage Cousin+Marriages Islam Recessive+Disorders Genetic+Illness         &#171;&#171; Previous: Muhammad Ali     Comments &#187; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Currently there is much conjecture over the &#8216;next best&#8217; option, which is to marry within the family. At this point it should be noted that much of the research that focuses on genetic problems has been considered over-exaggerated. However, whilst I do not in anyway seek to comment on the Islamic view on marrying Cousins, if one aspires to form new social ties, bonds and widen the social circle, marrying non-relations may be more preferable. The same can be said to those influenced to marry within their caste, or trailer park for that matter. What I&#8217;m saying is that marriage decisions should be primarily left to the choice of the individual, which is evidently distorted when parents and relatives make demands due to their hankerings of pride, materialism and greed.  Tech Tags: Marriage Cousin+Marriages Islam Recessive+Disorders Genetic+Illness         &laquo;&laquo; Previous: Muhammad Ali     Comments &raquo; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Davies</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4285</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4285</guid>
		<description>This is very interesting topic and not just because of the genetic implications. This site has a wealth of detail about it and also a map showing the incidence of cousin marriage worldwide. 

www.consang.net

One thing that shows is that a high level of cousin marriage is found in a very clearly defined area - the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia and the North West of the Indian subcontinent (IIRC you do get first cousin marriage in South India but only on one side of the line of descent). It isn&#039;t found in all Islamic societies, with Indonesia and Malaysia being the big exceptions, it&#039;s also not found among Muslims in e.g. China. In theory Islam discourages it but it has proved persistent.

When this pattern of marriage is widespread it has far reaching effects. In particular it leads to a society which is clan based and where trust based relations are much stronger among relatives than those who are unrelated. One consequence is that government becomes a family business - so long as the family in question stick together that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very interesting topic and not just because of the genetic implications. This site has a wealth of detail about it and also a map showing the incidence of cousin marriage worldwide. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.consang.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.consang.net</a></p>
<p>One thing that shows is that a high level of cousin marriage is found in a very clearly defined area &#8211; the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia and the North West of the Indian subcontinent (IIRC you do get first cousin marriage in South India but only on one side of the line of descent). It isn&#8217;t found in all Islamic societies, with Indonesia and Malaysia being the big exceptions, it&#8217;s also not found among Muslims in e.g. China. In theory Islam discourages it but it has proved persistent.</p>
<p>When this pattern of marriage is widespread it has far reaching effects. In particular it leads to a society which is clan based and where trust based relations are much stronger among relatives than those who are unrelated. One consequence is that government becomes a family business &#8211; so long as the family in question stick together that is.</p>
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		<title>By: Hari Pota</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4258</link>
		<dc:creator>Hari Pota</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4258</guid>
		<description>REPORT FROM THE ASIAN VOICE

Ann Cryerâ€™s first cousin campaign raises Hindu eyebrows

Keighley MP Ann Cryerâ€™s campaign in the national media to persuade â€˜British Asiansâ€™ to end the tradition of marrying first cousins has raised a few eyebrows in the Hindu community. Hindu leaders have become slightly alarmed about the way Ann Cryer had labelled the problem as â€˜Asianâ€™ even though Hindus and Sikhs do not marry first cousins. 

 The investigation, carried out for BBC2&#039;s Newsnight, found that over 50% of British Pakistanis married their first cousins. It also found that although British Pakistanis accounted for just 3.4% of all births, they had 30% of all British children with recessive disorders. 
Ms Cryer said: &quot;As we address problems of smoking, drinking, obesity, we say it&#039;s a public health issue and therefore we all have to get involved with it in persuading people to adopt a different lifestyle. I think the same should be applied to this problem in the Asian community. They must adopt a different lifestyle. They must look outside the family for husbands and wives for their young people.&quot; 
â€œBy saying that she wishes to discourage first-cousin marriages in the Asian community, Ann Cryer has shown a high level of ignorance of the diversity within the Asian community and the cultural differences that permeate within,â€ claimed Ishwer Tailor, President of the Hindu Forum of Britain.
 
The Asian community is made up of a number of different communities from different backgrounds, ethnicity and faith. Thus, the Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan communities have their own singular traditions that differ from each other. Within the South Asian nationalities, those of Indian origin are mostly Hindu and Sikh, those of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin are mostly Muslim and those of Sri Lankan origin are mostly Hindu and Buddhist.
 
â€œHindus and Sikhs do not indulge in the practice of marriage to first cousins. Hinduism is oldest living religious tradition in the world and its scriptures pre-date Abrahamic literature by 5000 years. For marriages, the ancient Hindu system of &#039;gotra&#039; is held as a scientific and proven way of avoiding genetic inbreeding,â€ explained Gauri Dasa, President of Bhaktivedanta Manor and Spiritual Commissioner of the Hindu Forum of Britain. 

The gotra system traces a person&#039;s ancestry to thousands of years. A man and a woman belonging to the same gotra cannot marry each other because they may have the same ancestor thousands of years previously. The name of the gotra is passed from father to son to ensure that genetic inbreeding does not happen. In this sense the Hindu faith is the only faith in the world where genetic inbreeding has been prevented for thousands of years through a meticulous system that has been established and is still prevalent. 

â€œThe fact is that the Hindu genetic pool is probably much more diverse and expansive than the Christian or Jewish ones,â€ said Arjan Vekaria, Chair of Hindu Aid. â€œThatâ€™s why Ann Cryerâ€™s labelling of the problem as Asian is slightly unfair to the Hindu and Sikh communities.â€
 
In a letter written to Ann Cryer, the Hindu Forum of Britain has urged her to be more careful in using words to describe communities. 

The letter said, â€œThe BBC has opted to use the word &#039;Pakistani&#039; to identify this problem which is definitely better than the word &#039;Asian&#039;. However, Indian and Bangladeshi Muslims too marry first cousins. Yet, if you feel that the word &#039;Muslim&#039; is not appropriate due to the sensitivities involved, please continue to use the word &#039;Pakistani&#039; as the BBC have done. However, to continue to use the word &#039;Asian&#039; to describe this problem is unfair to the Hindu and Sikh communities from an Asian background.â€</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>REPORT FROM THE ASIAN VOICE</p>
<p>Ann Cryerâ€™s first cousin campaign raises Hindu eyebrows</p>
<p>Keighley MP Ann Cryerâ€™s campaign in the national media to persuade â€˜British Asiansâ€™ to end the tradition of marrying first cousins has raised a few eyebrows in the Hindu community. Hindu leaders have become slightly alarmed about the way Ann Cryer had labelled the problem as â€˜Asianâ€™ even though Hindus and Sikhs do not marry first cousins. </p>
<p> The investigation, carried out for BBC2&#8242;s Newsnight, found that over 50% of British Pakistanis married their first cousins. It also found that although British Pakistanis accounted for just 3.4% of all births, they had 30% of all British children with recessive disorders.<br />
Ms Cryer said: &#8220;As we address problems of smoking, drinking, obesity, we say it&#8217;s a public health issue and therefore we all have to get involved with it in persuading people to adopt a different lifestyle. I think the same should be applied to this problem in the Asian community. They must adopt a different lifestyle. They must look outside the family for husbands and wives for their young people.&#8221;<br />
â€œBy saying that she wishes to discourage first-cousin marriages in the Asian community, Ann Cryer has shown a high level of ignorance of the diversity within the Asian community and the cultural differences that permeate within,â€ claimed Ishwer Tailor, President of the Hindu Forum of Britain.</p>
<p>The Asian community is made up of a number of different communities from different backgrounds, ethnicity and faith. Thus, the Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan communities have their own singular traditions that differ from each other. Within the South Asian nationalities, those of Indian origin are mostly Hindu and Sikh, those of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin are mostly Muslim and those of Sri Lankan origin are mostly Hindu and Buddhist.</p>
<p>â€œHindus and Sikhs do not indulge in the practice of marriage to first cousins. Hinduism is oldest living religious tradition in the world and its scriptures pre-date Abrahamic literature by 5000 years. For marriages, the ancient Hindu system of &#8216;gotra&#8217; is held as a scientific and proven way of avoiding genetic inbreeding,â€ explained Gauri Dasa, President of Bhaktivedanta Manor and Spiritual Commissioner of the Hindu Forum of Britain. </p>
<p>The gotra system traces a person&#8217;s ancestry to thousands of years. A man and a woman belonging to the same gotra cannot marry each other because they may have the same ancestor thousands of years previously. The name of the gotra is passed from father to son to ensure that genetic inbreeding does not happen. In this sense the Hindu faith is the only faith in the world where genetic inbreeding has been prevented for thousands of years through a meticulous system that has been established and is still prevalent. </p>
<p>â€œThe fact is that the Hindu genetic pool is probably much more diverse and expansive than the Christian or Jewish ones,â€ said Arjan Vekaria, Chair of Hindu Aid. â€œThatâ€™s why Ann Cryerâ€™s labelling of the problem as Asian is slightly unfair to the Hindu and Sikh communities.â€</p>
<p>In a letter written to Ann Cryer, the Hindu Forum of Britain has urged her to be more careful in using words to describe communities. </p>
<p>The letter said, â€œThe BBC has opted to use the word &#8216;Pakistani&#8217; to identify this problem which is definitely better than the word &#8216;Asian&#8217;. However, Indian and Bangladeshi Muslims too marry first cousins. Yet, if you feel that the word &#8216;Muslim&#8217; is not appropriate due to the sensitivities involved, please continue to use the word &#8216;Pakistani&#8217; as the BBC have done. However, to continue to use the word &#8216;Asian&#8217; to describe this problem is unfair to the Hindu and Sikh communities from an Asian background.â€</p>
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		<title>By: gunduwhitegirl</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4242</link>
		<dc:creator>gunduwhitegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 02:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4242</guid>
		<description>Sajin - really, first cousin marriages are allowed in the UK?  I know here, in the US, there are state laws saying you are not allowed to marry a first cousin (some states even go as far as second cousins).

These first cousin marriages were very common in West Virginia and Kentucky.  I&#039;m from Ohio, and still have relatives in West Virginia (no- no inbreeding).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sajin &#8211; really, first cousin marriages are allowed in the UK?  I know here, in the US, there are state laws saying you are not allowed to marry a first cousin (some states even go as far as second cousins).</p>
<p>These first cousin marriages were very common in West Virginia and Kentucky.  I&#8217;m from Ohio, and still have relatives in West Virginia (no- no inbreeding).</p>
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		<title>By: Sajn</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4235</link>
		<dc:creator>Sajn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 00:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4235</guid>
		<description>From my experience first cousin marriages have never been as prevalent as some are portraying (that isn&#039;t to say that they weren&#039;t common) and although we went through a period when parents in the UK would attempt to ensure that the weddings were arranged between first cousins, over the last 10 or so years this has dropped off and now it is mostly non-first cousin marriages taking place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my experience first cousin marriages have never been as prevalent as some are portraying (that isn&#8217;t to say that they weren&#8217;t common) and although we went through a period when parents in the UK would attempt to ensure that the weddings were arranged between first cousins, over the last 10 or so years this has dropped off and now it is mostly non-first cousin marriages taking place.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4154</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 03:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4154</guid>
		<description>No way! I never knew Tamilians approved of cousin marriages? How bizarre!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No way! I never knew Tamilians approved of cousin marriages? How bizarre!</p>
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		<title>By: gunduwhitegirl</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4140</link>
		<dc:creator>gunduwhitegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 02:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4140</guid>
		<description>One more thing...

I found this website to be informative.  It&#039;s actually a report done on a study of imbreeding in North India.  If you are curious, like I was, at the bottom you will find the name:  Rao PSS, Inbaraj SG. Inbreeding effects on fetal growth and development. J Med Genet 1980; 17: 27-33.  

http://www.indianpediatrics.net/nov1998/nov-1110-1113.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing&#8230;</p>
<p>I found this website to be informative.  It&#8217;s actually a report done on a study of imbreeding in North India.  If you are curious, like I was, at the bottom you will find the name:  Rao PSS, Inbaraj SG. Inbreeding effects on fetal growth and development. J Med Genet 1980; 17: 27-33.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.indianpediatrics.net/nov1998/nov-1110-1113.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.indianpediatrics.net/nov1998/nov-1110-1113.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: gunduwhitegirl</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4139</link>
		<dc:creator>gunduwhitegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 01:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4139</guid>
		<description>OK, This is so gross...

My husband is from Tamil Nadu and he says the only place this is legal in India is his state.  And, it&#039;s very common (where he&#039;s from) to marry your cousin.  In fact, his parents are first cousins.

Here&#039;s a link a found with more stories in the US.

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/inbreed.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, This is so gross&#8230;</p>
<p>My husband is from Tamil Nadu and he says the only place this is legal in India is his state.  And, it&#8217;s very common (where he&#8217;s from) to marry your cousin.  In fact, his parents are first cousins.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link a found with more stories in the US.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/inbreed.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/inbreed.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: gunduwhitegirl</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4135</link>
		<dc:creator>gunduwhitegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 01:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-4135</guid>
		<description>I was unaware that this was also a &quot;Muslim&quot; problem.   Funny, here in the US I have many Muslim friends and none of them married their cousins --- let alone relatives.

However, from what I&#039;ve seen from my Indian (Hindu) friends/couples this is common.   I dunno, like I&#039;ve said I come from primarily dealing with Tamilians.  In fact, I was just posting in my blog today about my husband&#039;s family trying to force him to marry his own niece. 

A very good friend of mine and her husband have been trying to have a baby for almost eight years.  She keeps getting pregnant and miscarrying.   She&#039;s had almost ten total now.  And, the doctors are saying that its a genetic problem.  Supposably her family ran the family tree back three generations.  HOWEVER, they only did this on her father&#039;s side.  

I&#039;m not sure how common this is...but it&#039;s creepy.  BTW, I believe other South Asian cultures have similar practices about &#039;keeping the wealth in the family&#039;.  And &#039;preservation&#039; of the family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was unaware that this was also a &#8220;Muslim&#8221; problem.   Funny, here in the US I have many Muslim friends and none of them married their cousins &#8212; let alone relatives.</p>
<p>However, from what I&#8217;ve seen from my Indian (Hindu) friends/couples this is common.   I dunno, like I&#8217;ve said I come from primarily dealing with Tamilians.  In fact, I was just posting in my blog today about my husband&#8217;s family trying to force him to marry his own niece. </p>
<p>A very good friend of mine and her husband have been trying to have a baby for almost eight years.  She keeps getting pregnant and miscarrying.   She&#8217;s had almost ten total now.  And, the doctors are saying that its a genetic problem.  Supposably her family ran the family tree back three generations.  HOWEVER, they only did this on her father&#8217;s side.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how common this is&#8230;but it&#8217;s creepy.  BTW, I believe other South Asian cultures have similar practices about &#8216;keeping the wealth in the family&#8217;.  And &#8216;preservation&#8217; of the family.</p>
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		<title>By: SajiniW</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3947</link>
		<dc:creator>SajiniW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3947</guid>
		<description>Sunny, there are statistics on the haematology, chromosomal and metabolic disorder research registries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunny, there are statistics on the haematology, chromosomal and metabolic disorder research registries.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3946</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3946</guid>
		<description>Oh dear - Inquisitor gives himself away with those nasty little quotation marks around &#039;terrorism&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh dear &#8211; Inquisitor gives himself away with those nasty little quotation marks around &#8216;terrorism&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Inquisitor</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3940</link>
		<dc:creator>Inquisitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 05:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3940</guid>
		<description>I suppose it wouldn&#039;t be too long till some americanised/mechanised - apologies for the tautology - minds will view such marriages as supplying the genetic basis for the emergence of Islamic&#039; &#039;terrorism&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose it wouldn&#8217;t be too long till some americanised/mechanised &#8211; apologies for the tautology &#8211; minds will view such marriages as supplying the genetic basis for the emergence of Islamic&#8217; &#8216;terrorism&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaggydabbydo</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3939</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaggydabbydo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 04:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3939</guid>
		<description>&#039;Also: England lost to Pakistan in the first test match. Ha ha! *points finger Simpsons style*&#039;

Bah-humbug ;-)  Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Also: England lost to Pakistan in the first test match. Ha ha! *points finger Simpsons style*&#8217;</p>
<p>Bah-humbug <img src='http://www.pickledpolitics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Well done.</p>
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		<title>By: lost</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3937</link>
		<dc:creator>lost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3937</guid>
		<description>We are so prone to go off topic.  Now the discussion has turned to &#039;Jatts and casteism&#039;.  We humans have to appear superior to the person we stand next to.  So we would devise structures that suit us.

Guru Nanak took away the caste system, very true.  But, as one author put it, (can&#039;t remember is name) casteism slowly crept back into Sikhism, and before one could work out what was happening, we were seeing a kind of &#039;Sanaton Sikhism&#039; (Sanaton is  the actual word for Hinduism). 

 But, as I said we have to feel superior, so the Jatt will say I am the upper caste in Sikh, the Brahmans will say no I am upper caste, and the Khan will say no I am chieftain so I am superior.  Does it end?  

I think we should start by shredding our ego, cos we are  the stalwarts of feudalism regardless of religious belief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are so prone to go off topic.  Now the discussion has turned to &#8216;Jatts and casteism&#8217;.  We humans have to appear superior to the person we stand next to.  So we would devise structures that suit us.</p>
<p>Guru Nanak took away the caste system, very true.  But, as one author put it, (can&#8217;t remember is name) casteism slowly crept back into Sikhism, and before one could work out what was happening, we were seeing a kind of &#8216;Sanaton Sikhism&#8217; (Sanaton is  the actual word for Hinduism). </p>
<p> But, as I said we have to feel superior, so the Jatt will say I am the upper caste in Sikh, the Brahmans will say no I am upper caste, and the Khan will say no I am chieftain so I am superior.  Does it end?  </p>
<p>I think we should start by shredding our ego, cos we are  the stalwarts of feudalism regardless of religious belief.</p>
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		<title>By: lost</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3936</link>
		<dc:creator>lost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3936</guid>
		<description>Please don&#039;t go into cynicism and sarcism.  This is quite a serious issue.  

raz- I don&#039;t know why you say this is a Pakistani issue not Islam.  First cousin marriages are prevalent in Islam especially Muslims from  Pakistan &amp; Bangladesh.  

Most marriages are forced by their parents or other relatives.  Apart from health implications there are emotional implications too, which cause alot of family conflicts.  I used work as a social worker in London some time back, I have seen the family tension that arise from  marriages that take place within families and also from polygamy.   

 But, here we are discussing the genetic implications of marriage union between family members.  I think that this should stop altogether, FULL STOP !.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please don&#8217;t go into cynicism and sarcism.  This is quite a serious issue.  </p>
<p>raz- I don&#8217;t know why you say this is a Pakistani issue not Islam.  First cousin marriages are prevalent in Islam especially Muslims from  Pakistan &amp; Bangladesh.  </p>
<p>Most marriages are forced by their parents or other relatives.  Apart from health implications there are emotional implications too, which cause alot of family conflicts.  I used work as a social worker in London some time back, I have seen the family tension that arise from  marriages that take place within families and also from polygamy.   </p>
<p> But, here we are discussing the genetic implications of marriage union between family members.  I think that this should stop altogether, FULL STOP !.</p>
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		<title>By: susano</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3927</link>
		<dc:creator>susano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/153#comment-3927</guid>
		<description>&quot;the royal families of europe are a fine example of the benefits of interbreeding.&quot;

Yeah but, they&#039;re Reptillians, innit? That&#039;s different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the royal families of europe are a fine example of the benefits of interbreeding.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah but, they&#8217;re Reptillians, innit? That&#8217;s different.</p>
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