Britz – whaddya think?


by Sunny
31st October, 2007 at 3:19 pm    

The widely trailed and discussed Channel 4 drama Britz is on tonight at 9pm. I was sent preview tapes 2 weeks ago and still haven’t watched them, that’s how bloody busy I am. What do you make of the publicity? And give us your views after episode 1.
(P.S. Both Manjinder and Riz are friends so I won’t hear a bad word about their acting, which is usually superb)


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  1. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 3:28 pm  

    No point in opening this thread until after both episodes are shown I reckon Sunny. What’s the point? Better to talk about the programme itself than anything else that surrounds it on the understanding that you shouldn’t pass comment on things you have not seen or read. The rest is all hype or conjecture.

  2. Sofi — on 31st October, 2007 at 3:32 pm  

    OMG YOU POSTED THIS TOO!! ARGH!

  3. Sofia — on 31st October, 2007 at 3:39 pm  

    the only thing i can say at the mo, is that they’ve managed to plaster the posters everywhere in Southall…because obviously Asians will switch to watch channel 4 now they’ve shown 2 brown faces..

  4. Sofi — on 31st October, 2007 at 3:40 pm  

    anyway, on a lighter note…after hearing Riz’s interview on the AN, i am totally and heartily impressed with the guy.

    Sofia: theyve plastered the posters in other towns too. im not sure if its predominantly in asian areas or across the country though. and given the hype the mass advertising has paid off already!

  5. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 3:43 pm  

    What did he say on his AN interview Sofi?

  6. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 3:58 pm  

    Riz can act?

  7. Sofi — on 31st October, 2007 at 4:01 pm  

    sorry to sound so inane, but he said quite alot!

    i dont have the time to delve deeper and recall it all (and its fair to say memory retrieval is not what it once was!). suffice to say he gave some very convincing responses to Nihal’s intense interrogation. he felt very passionate about starring in britz and listening to him alone arouses curiosity and in particular, to view the drama with an open mind. of course, only time will tell if i rate or hate it!

  8. Sunny — on 31st October, 2007 at 4:06 pm  

    Leon, I thought he was quite good in Ken Loach’s Guantanamo drama…

  9. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 4:12 pm  

    Ah I’ve just seen one very good reason for not watching this tonight…Heroes is at the same time! Will have to try and catch a repeat on E4 or something…

  10. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 4:12 pm  

    Heh that wasn’t a criticism just didn’t realise he was an actor before now! :D

  11. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 4:13 pm  

    Thanks Sofi.

    Some people are saying that it proffers an apologia for suicide bombing and asserts the legitimacy of the collective culpability of the general public as targets for suicide bombing through the female character’s journey and its soft-soaping of the internal ideological impulse of this phenomenon. I’m going to reserve judgment until I watch it myself because it may be a complex work. But after reading an interview with the director and writer, Peter Kosminsky, I believe that he is a moral half-wit on the issue, and is personally an ethical invert and apologist for suicide bombing.

    Are we? Are we innocent? I know the impact the anti-terror laws are having on British Muslims, even if I choose to look away. I know how the attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and how uncritical support for Israel are seen by Muslims here and overseas but, like so many others, I do nothing; I look away. Can I, under these circumstances, claim to be truly innocent? Can you? Can we really, with honour, complain if we get caught up in the inevitable backlash – here on the streets of our green and sometimes pleasant land?

    link

    It’s of a different type than the direct apologist — this is rooted more in liberal white self-loathing that accepts the terms of collective culpability and punishment on the terms of the terrorists, and is more to do with the idiocy of a certain cloistered and narcissistic section of the Left.

    However, the work has to stand or fall on its own merits, and it may be that his personal opinion does not overly influence the films. So I’ll keep an open mind and judge the film on its own terms.

  12. Sofi — on 31st October, 2007 at 4:46 pm  

    Jagdeep,
    Thanks for your comment..
    >>I’m going to reserve judgment until I watch it myself because it may be a complex work.
    >>>However, the work has to stand or fall on its own merits, and it may be that his personal opinion does not overly influence the films. So I’ll keep an open mind and judge the film on its own terms.

    Yep, i agree. We should reserve judgement on this until we see it for ourself.

    >>and is more to do with the idiocy of a certain cloistered and narcissistic section of the Left.

    Lol. i think youll find lefties accusing the far right of this too (i.e cloistered and narcissistic)..not that im suggesting you incline to the Right, of course but i dont think it actually gets us anywhere. anyway, back to the point: i look forward to discussing britz with you tomorrow and friday :)

    Sofi

  13. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 4:55 pm  

    I think that Kosminsky’s personal apologia is rooted in a cloistered, narcissistic and stupid element of the Left. It’s not the part of the Left that I belong to, if I can say I belong to the Left. Which I probably do, because I definitely don’t belong to the Right. But apart from certain lunatics, nobody on the Right has proffered apologia for this phenomenon in the same way that the likes of Kosminsky have, and it’s a deep weakness and inverted flaw of this section of the Left.

  14. Rumbold — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:02 pm  

    Is this Riz our Riz?

    Welcome back Jagdeep- I thought that the strain of Wolves doing well might have been too much for you (heh).

  15. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:02 pm  

    It’s not the part of the Left that I belong to, if I can say I belong to the Left.

    Wow…you know, and don’t take this the long way, but I always pegged you for a centre right/liberal conservative type…!

  16. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:05 pm  

    Cheers Rumbold. Wolves aren’t doing too bad, cruising along in fifth, we’ll pick up the pace soon I reckon.

  17. Rumbold — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:07 pm  

    Jagdeep- Can you catch Watford though?

    I am with Leon. I would like to watch this, but Heroes is on (I suspect that Douglas feels the same way).

  18. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:09 pm  

    Wow…you know, and don’t take this the long way, but I always pegged you for a centre right/liberal conservative type…!

    You’ve been drinking too much Barbados rum Leon! I’m definitely not of the Right.

  19. El Cid — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:10 pm  

    Jagdeep, you da man! (Just like long lost Jay Singh)
    I think you and Funkg are the people I most relate to (maybe Katy too)

  20. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:11 pm  

    Doubt we’ll catch Watford Rumbold. Anyway, I’m trying to decide which Premiership team to support because I want to be a glory hunter.

  21. El Cid — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:13 pm  

    Got to be the Gooners!

  22. Rumbold — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:14 pm  

    Aston Villa? Birmingham?

  23. Jagdeep — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:20 pm  

    No way am I supporting an underachiever or struggler team Rumbold. I said I want to be a glory hunter! Man Utd are too obvious. Chelsea, I have bad memories of Chelsea fans from the days when they used to be inflitrated by the NF, so forget that. Liverpool play turgid, boring football. So I think I’ll have to support Arsenal — beautiful total football in the Ajax / Brazil 1970 style. Only for Premiership mind, Wolves are still supreme otherwise!

  24. Rumbold — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:23 pm  

    Then you can switch to West Brom next year when they go up.

  25. Sunny — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:36 pm  

    nobody on the Right has proffered apologia for this phenomenon in the same way that the likes of Kosminsky have,

    Yeah, except I don’t see the right offer ANY intelligent analysis of what’s going on. I don’t mean bloggers like Rumbold and Clive Davis (the only two right wing bloggers I have lots of time for) but commentators in the press. Rod Liddle? Mark Steyn? Mad Mel?

    Besides, you can’t accuse Kominisky of any apologia without watching it. At least they’re trying to cover a sensitive issue and not frothing at the mouth like j0nz / Morgoth. What shall we have instead? A British Islamo-fascism Week? Hosted by Hitchens? :)

  26. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 5:58 pm  

    You’ve been drinking too much Barbados rum Leon! I’m definitely not of the Right.

    LOL! Not yet, the Bajan rum is for the weekend only. ;)

    I’ve no idea why I got that impression…

  27. El Cid — on 31st October, 2007 at 6:04 pm  

    you know it makes sense

  28. Don — on 31st October, 2007 at 6:32 pm  

    Why the ‘z’? When I first saw this post I thought you had an opinion on those rather disturbing dolls.

  29. Jai — on 31st October, 2007 at 7:01 pm  

    Why the ‘z’?

    It’s how the name of the drama’s spelt, Don. Sort of intended to indicate it’s all about the second-generation, hip and gangsterish and “from the streetz” and whatnot.

    You wouldn’t understand, since you’re all genteel in your leather armchair in the rarified atmosphere of your library, wearing a tweed jacket and sipping a glass of brandy while you smoke your cigar.

    ;)

  30. Don — on 31st October, 2007 at 7:48 pm  

    Single malt, actually.

  31. Rumbold — on 31st October, 2007 at 7:52 pm  

    18 year old? Or 30?

  32. Rumbold — on 31st October, 2007 at 7:55 pm  

    “Yeah, except I don’t see the right offer ANY intelligent analysis of what’s going on. I don’t mean bloggers like Rumbold and Clive Davis (the only two right wing bloggers I have lots of time for) but commentators in the press.”

    Thanks Sunny (I think).

  33. Don — on 31st October, 2007 at 8:05 pm  

    Rumbold,

    A fifteen year old Glenmorangie at the moment.

    I’ll tape Britz as I was looking forward to my fix of Heroes.

  34. Rumbold — on 31st October, 2007 at 8:18 pm  

    Don:

    “A fifteen year old Glenmorangie at the moment.”

    I must confess that I am more of a port drinker, or even madeira.

    “I’ll tape Britz as I was looking forward to my fix of Heroes.”

    What were Channel 4 thinking putting it on at this time?

  35. Muhamad — on 31st October, 2007 at 9:32 pm  

    People are crying out for heroes Don. :-)

  36. Morgoth — on 31st October, 2007 at 10:04 pm  

    A British Islamo-fascism Week? Hosted by Hitchens? :)

    Hosted by Christopher Hitchens, that would be lovely. Hosted by that fucker Peter Hitchens, no thanks.

  37. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 10:54 pm  

    Kinda watching it now (man Heroes was good tonight!)…

  38. shariq — on 31st October, 2007 at 11:13 pm  

    Britz was superb! Am thinking of possibly doing a quick review – people should definitely watch it if they’ve taped it in time for tomorrow’s concluding part.

  39. Nyrone — on 31st October, 2007 at 11:17 pm  

    Excellent FICTIONAL storytelling.

  40. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 11:45 pm  

    Watching it now, finding it quite boring to be honest.

  41. shariq — on 31st October, 2007 at 11:50 pm  

    The first half an hour isn’t great but it definitely gets better. Stick with it Leon.

  42. Leon — on 31st October, 2007 at 11:55 pm  

    Been watching it for nearly an hour and a half (missed the first 30 odd minutes), still finding it boring and a little contrived in places.

  43. douglas clark — on 1st November, 2007 at 12:36 am  

    Rumbold at 17,

    Yeah, Heroes just got more weird. It messes with your mind. I think, when we’ve unwrapped the onion layers, this conspiracy will go to the very top! Probably the Illuminati. Or the greys…. Heh!

    ——————–

    Britz, reminds me of Amerika, the replacement ‘k’ apparently having something to do with Nazi Germany. No, I never really got it either. So why, a ‘z’ instead of the more usual ‘s’

    Brits, horrible, horrible people, by definition. Britz, probably much nastier. It looks and sounds more fascist, does it not? Oh, the magic of the z, to make things much worse than they really are.

    Nationalism, nationalizm.

    Conservatism, contervatizm.

    We could play that game all night, don’t you think?

    And patriotism, patriotizm. I like that one.

    Scottish, Scottizch. That works for me.

    Feel free.

  44. SajiniW — on 1st November, 2007 at 8:08 am  

    From a dramatic point of view, it’s worth the hype. It’s well-acted, two points of view are considered.

    It would’ve been interesting to watch radicalisation on screen; it’s a real shame we only heard about it as this was what I was most looking forward to.

    It would’ve been nice to have the parents and family friends as three-dimensional characters for there were superficially stereotypical aspects of the storyline that these characters could’ve explained.

    Having said that, I’m still going to watch part 2 – the cliffhanger is too good to miss!

  45. chrisc — on 1st November, 2007 at 8:25 am  

    Sunny will be pleased to hear that it was generally well acted! :-)

    Episode one was far too long, given that the character doesn’t really develop very much. He starts out as a good guy. I did enjoy his quip to a friend who was wearing traditional dress: “We f*cking live in Britain, not some ghetto in Gaza!” That set the tone of his character very early on – and it didn’t change much after that. It might have been more interesting if he had started out as the “radical” and shifted the other way.

    And the Spooks-like final 10 minutes – of course only he knows that Canary Wharf is a target, and of course he gets to exactly the right spot at exactly the right time – while injecting some more-than-welcome tension as I was contemplating bed doesn’t sit very well with the naturalism of the rest of the drama.

    Will certainly be watching tonight though for the more controversial story!

  46. Rohin — on 1st November, 2007 at 8:34 am  

    I saw the first half hour before heading to work. I’m on my way back to see the rest. I think it’s mammoth 4½ hours will count against it.

    But I’m posting because I am disgusted to be in your presence. I can’t BELIEVE you PHILISTINES are still worrying about Ted’s exploding hands. I’m awaiting episode 7 of series two.

    It makes me sick, quite frankly. PHYSICALLY SICK to hear about you people watching series one.

    Heroez.

  47. SajiniW — on 1st November, 2007 at 9:13 am  

    As for the people who didn’t want Britz screened – shame on you. The show doesn’t use Islam as a scapegoat at all.

    If anything, it’s anti ‘pindh’-mentality.

  48. Rumbold — on 1st November, 2007 at 9:38 am  

    Having watched Britz on Channel 4 +1, I thought that it was excellent, and am really looking forward to today’s installment. That Riz is an amazing actor.

    Sunny:

    Is Riz Ahmed the Riz that comes on here sometime?

    Douglas:

    “Yeah, Heroes just got more weird. It messes with your mind. I think, when we’ve unwrapped the onion layers, this conspiracy will go to the very top! Probably the Illuminati. Or the greys…. Heh!”

    It is obvious who is controlling the sinister organisation; the Enterprise under Captain Kirk (Sulu is the only one to show himself so far). They have evidently travelled back in time to stop some terrible event.

    Rohin:

    You had better not reveal any plot details, or we will find you.

  49. Rohin — on 1st November, 2007 at 9:48 am  

    I’ll give away the BEEEG twist.

    I’m Sylar.

    Riz did act very well. And my Mum thinks he’s very good looking. I caught his song ‘The Post 9/11 Blues’ and I thought it was kind of amusing, but crap.

    It’s funny you mention Sulu, Rumbold. Did you know that Sylar is playing Spock in the forthcoming before-you-know-them Star Trek movie? Harold from and Kumar fame is playing Sulu.

    There IS another Star Trek connection. But that awaits you in Season 2.

  50. Rumbold — on 1st November, 2007 at 9:55 am  

    Rohin:

    “I’m Sylar.”

    I always suspected, but was too scared to say …

    “Did you know that Sylar is playing Spock in the forthcoming before-you-know-them Star Trek movie? Harold from and Kumar fame is playing Sulu.”

    Apart from First Contact, and some funny bits in Star Trek: The Voyage home, I have always found the movies to be pretty awful. And Syler looks too creepy to play Spock (presumably Beyonce will be Uhura, with Brad Pitt as Dr. McCoy).

  51. Jai — on 1st November, 2007 at 10:02 am  

    It would’ve been interesting to watch radicalisation on screen; it’s a real shame we only heard about it as this was what I was most looking forward to.

    All that happens tonight, as the episode focuses on his sister’s experiences.

    I did enjoy his quip to a friend who was wearing traditional dress: “We f*cking live in Britain, not some ghetto in Gaza!”

    There was a bit more to it — the friend was Pakistani but was wearing Arab clothes. The main character Sohail indicated another friend’s attire — a ‘kurta’ outfit — and said “That’s our traditional dress”, along with commenting about some Pakistanis/Asian Muslims turning into Arabs. He had a good point.

  52. Leon — on 1st November, 2007 at 10:17 am  

    And the Spooks-like final 10 minutes – of course only he knows that Canary Wharf is a target, and of course he gets to exactly the right spot at exactly the right time – while injecting some more-than-welcome tension as I was contemplating bed doesn’t sit very well with the naturalism of the rest of the drama.

    Yep, there was a little too much of that in it. Good acting, fairly average story I thought so far…

  53. douglas clark — on 1st November, 2007 at 10:20 am  

    Rohin,

    Heroez

    Very good.

  54. Morgoth — on 1st November, 2007 at 10:43 am  

    There was a bit more to it — the friend was Pakistani but was wearing Arab clothes. The main character Sohail indicated another friend’s attire — a ‘kurta’ outfit — and said “That’s our traditional dress”, along with commenting about some Pakistanis/Asian Muslims turning into Arabs. He had a good point.

    He had a very good point. But hey, 50 years of Saudi Oil Money…

    And to think Gordon Broon et al are currently licking the boots of the same Saudis….

  55. Leon — on 1st November, 2007 at 10:59 am  

    Sarfraz Manzoor isn’t especially impressed with it:

    I am not suggesting that the only British Muslims should be allowed to write about British Muslims but instead observing how it is everyone except British Muslims who seem to be given these opportunities. In television drama there are precious few opportunities for new writers or directors to be have original works commissioned. Drama is a white middle-class ghetto; anyone who comes from a genuinely working-class background and needs to work to pay their mortgage will find it hard to maintain a viable career. The very people who might be able to offer something fresh, insightful and surprising are therefore the least likely to be able to have their voices heard.

    So rather than seeing where the imagination of a British Muslim writer or director may lead (and just to be clear – I am not angling for the work: I have no interest in either writing or directing television drama) we instead have the bizarre spectacle of a seemingly endless line of Dominics and Pennys and Peters being given the money, the time and the opportunity to make films. It is no accident that these dramas feature such crudely created characters and implausible dialogue. It would be funny if it was not so sad: television drama is full of working-class Muslims; meanwhile working-class British Muslims themselves remain woefully underrepresented in the media and are almost non-existent in the television drama industry. Perhaps that was why ultimately Britz made me so angry – it was yet another missed opportunity.

  56. Sofi — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:05 am  

    crap.. you got there before me Leon

    >>am not angling for the work: I have no interest in either writing or directing television drama)

    this is precisely what went through my mind as i read his review. hahha. im glad he clarified his position!

  57. Sofi — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:21 am  

    >>isn’t especially impressed with it:

    hmm, to be fair, and imo, he hasnt really criticised the drama in detail aside from a quick mention of the weak depiction/characterisation of the two protagonists. what struck out more was him essentially lambasting the lack of opportunities for the very same community who are selling papers at the moment.

  58. El Cid — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:27 am  

    I thought it was entertaining, if a bit long.

    Question (and this is strictly for the Asians):
    Is it a bit of a lame cliche or exaggeration in today’s society to suggest that every single British Pakistani/Indian has been subjected to racist violence at one point in their school lives?

    Go on, vent your spleens. It’s an honest question.

  59. Sofi — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:37 am  

    >>Is it a bit of a lame cliche or exaggeration in today’s society to suggest that every single British Pakistani/Indian has been subjected to racist violence at one point in their school lives?

    why do you ask that?

  60. ChrisC — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:51 am  

    Yep – there were a couple of very obvious cliches.
    The schoolboy beating.
    And when our hero is arrested by the thuggish cops.
    He even says at the time “racist thuggish cops – what a cliche”.

    Hello there, author.
    Admitting you’ve been a bit cliched doesn’t excuse it!

  61. El Cid — on 1st November, 2007 at 12:12 pm  

    sofi
    Coz it was integral to the drama

  62. Jai — on 1st November, 2007 at 12:17 pm  

    Is it a bit of a lame cliche or exaggeration in today’s society to suggest that every single British Pakistani/Indian

    Exaggeration, yes. Gross exaggeration, no, because huge numbers of British Asians will indeed have experienced this while growing up.

    has been subjected to racist violence at one point in their school lives?

    Not necessarily violence, but racially-motivated harassment, abuse etc, certainly. Varies according to where you live, what kind of school you went to, how many other Asians were there, etc etc.

  63. Dave Hill — on 1st November, 2007 at 12:21 pm  

    I quite enjoyed it, but it was trying to be two things at once – a spook thriller and a social commentary – and didn’t really pull it off. I’m wondering if the style and content were a bit compromised by the demands of the marketing department.

  64. Sofi — on 1st November, 2007 at 12:22 pm  

    >>Coz it was integral to the drama

    what was integral to the drama?

  65. Leon — on 1st November, 2007 at 12:41 pm  

    what was integral to the drama?

    Plot contrivance and cliche.

  66. El Cid — on 1st November, 2007 at 12:49 pm  

    is that an honest question sofi, or are you questioning my motives

  67. Sofi — on 1st November, 2007 at 2:23 pm  

    hmmm, if im honest..i just wondered where it’d lead to really and whether we’d go back round to your initial question. i just didnt understand how a (however cliched/contrived) drama could lead to someone asking if every single child of pakistani/indian origin suffered some mistreatment of some sort.

  68. El Cid — on 1st November, 2007 at 2:41 pm  

    Glad you can be honest too
    Let me put it this way, i asked the question because I am not british asian and therefore can’t be expected to really really know the true answer to my question. my gut instinct — partly based on what I saw growing up in a multiethnic environment with a limited asian pop — was that it was a cliche and exaggerated. However, it would be arrogant of me and potentially wrong to assume that my experiences was enough to go on.
    Self-doubt is a worthwhile intellectual exercise Sofi.
    The fact you “couldn’t understand how a drama could lead to someone asking if every single child of pakistani/indian origin suffered some mistreatment of some sort” — and i think you were being careful with your words — suggests that perhaps you too should begin to question your premises.
    Next time though just say what is on your mind rather than dilly dallying.

  69. Sofi — on 1st November, 2007 at 3:00 pm  

    thanks for being honest!

    hmm, so if i said “yes. every single person does feel that that because i did”, you’d change your mind? yes it was cliched and exxagerated but ultimately it was a drama. and since i didnt extrapolate or infer the same thing, i didnt understand it.

    anyway, if it means anything to you, i actually gave you more credit than you yourself portrayed in asking the question. and i’m sorry to hear my line of questioning was dilly dallying but i was discerning whether you were capable of answering a qn that i admit i found absurd. evidently, you can.

  70. El Cid — on 1st November, 2007 at 3:25 pm  

    hmm, so if i said “yes. every single person does feel that that because i did”, you’d change your mind?

    well, yes, potentially

  71. SajiniW — on 1st November, 2007 at 5:37 pm  

    El Cid, I grew up in rural Dorset.

    Whilst I didn’t get a physical pounding, the words and harrassment came thick and fast. My school did an impressive job of dealing with it as they’d only had one/two students of colour before.

  72. Natty — on 1st November, 2007 at 7:41 pm  

    Discussing complex issues in short episodes hardly helps to discuss the subject.

    Most people have their minds made up already.

    Like anythign there are also wider issues and causes, possibly desperation that drives people to this point.

    Channel 4 is on a fairly nasty drive at the moment with its focus on the Muslim community.

    In order to stop such events then people need to have the courage to face up to the issues. This applies to the Muslim community and wider community.

    Simplistics looks at complex subjects and short dramas purely for titliation are hardly doing the subject justice.

    The West has a general duty to do what is right and not cherry pick sides.

    I don’t have the answer but I think any serious debates needs to focus on the issues. The issue of people taking their lives in the name of their cause has been going on for time immemorial and now we have people not just taking their lives but others. So hence what is the cause, what drives people to such a point and what can we do to avoid this.

    This cannot be answered by a Channel with an agenda.

  73. El Cid — on 1st November, 2007 at 9:52 pm  

    laughable

  74. El Cid — on 1st November, 2007 at 9:58 pm  

    but hey, it’s a drama and the acting is ok

  75. SajiniW — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:32 pm  

    I stand by my comments in post 44, though I’m yet to be convinced that real life terrorist training camps are quite as kind to cigarette-smoking non-hijabi women!

    Not keen on the ending either.

  76. Leon — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:35 pm  

    Oh dear, that was worse than the first episode…

  77. ZinZin — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:37 pm  

    Part one- excellent. Part two a collection of SWP/Respect cliches.

    Jagdeep #11 was right.

  78. chrisc — on 1st November, 2007 at 11:48 pm  

    Did Jagdeep have preview tapes?!
    Spot on anyway.

    Episode two was truly dreadful.
    And those captions at the end – what were they about?
    Just in case we hadn’t got the message?
    Laughable.

  79. sonia — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:02 am  

    i wonder if it will be interesting from the perspective of actually exploring issues for muslim siblings: what happens/tensions if/when you end up with very different “opposing” views. just an actual look at muslim family dynamics is interesting i think.

    one of my sisters for example is a good conformist muslim girl and always has been, can’t stand any of this ‘questioning what our parents and religion tell us’ business. and alarmingly seems to not only get more ‘traditionalist’ as she gets older, but also – seems to expect her siblings too to ‘grow up’ and stop being so ‘challenging’. in that way she and i are as chalk and cheese. which causes a hell of lot of trouble actually, i really wish ‘religion’ didn’t have to come between us, but it seems to be doing more increasingly.

  80. sonia — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:07 am  

    58- good question el cid.

  81. Nyrone — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:19 am  

    Oh Lord! The second part made the first one look like Citizen Kane or Vertigo. It was like watching The Matrix and then being forced to watch Revolutions straight after.

    The director was totally out of his depth for the second part, which was an embarassing patch of terrible cliches which did nothing to explain the reasons why she actually became a suicide bomber. I also disliked how it sought to rely on frankly crappy CU dreary shots of her face to try and convey to us how she was feeling on the train when contemplating her mission…(Leave that to Santosh Sivan)

    we do demand Justice Mr Kominsky…Justice from banal cliches about 1980′s terrorist training camps lead by Uzbek film noir femme fatale cigerette-smoking highly styalized french-accented weirdos. It verged on the completely absurd, as if I was watching a Harry Potter fantasy or something…It descended into a kind of parody of what the first half initially set-up so well, It felt like the whole plot and ‘message’ of the project sort of slipped out of his hands…

    Gosh, I hope white people aren’t sitting around talking about that film seriously in relation to suicide bombings, after watching how she got radicalized, they will probably think we are all totally nuts.

    Did anyone go and see ‘A Mighty Heart’? Now that…is how you film Pakistan (even if it was India with painted taxis)

  82. sonia — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:22 am  

    not having a tv is a bit of a problem i suppose.

  83. sonia — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:53 am  

    Funny choice of title anyway..britz?

  84. dave bones — on 2nd November, 2007 at 1:07 am  

    Indeed. He should have taken a lot of lessons from Michael Winterbottom. The MI-5 characters were so overblown with that huge screen and the way they spoke. It was like watching Doctor Who. Part 2 was a lot better.

  85. Boyo — on 2nd November, 2007 at 8:13 am  

    “Gosh, I hope white people aren’t sitting around talking about that film seriously in relation to suicide bombings, after watching how she got radicalized, they will probably think we are all totally nuts.”

    Well my girlfriend came to bed in tears, totallly freaked out by the last shot of the Barclays building in C.Wharf where her best-friend works…

    Sad, cynical manipulation really. Anthony Andrew actually blew the gaff in the weekend Observer when he pointed out the obvious distortions. The great irony is that the director claims to be concerned about “Muslim alienation” while seemingly incapable of appreciating that it is precisely this kind of thing that feeds it, among dickheads I mean.

    Beyond contempt.

  86. Jai — on 2nd November, 2007 at 9:41 am  

    The ending seems to have been inspired by the 1998 Shahrukh Khan film “Dil Se”, unless the similarity was just a huge coincidence.

  87. Jai — on 2nd November, 2007 at 9:44 am  

    I’m referring to the part where the hero finds the heroine (actually playing the role of a terrorist sent to kill the Indian prime minister) just as she’s about to detonate the bomb that’s been strapped to her, they both hug each other while crying, and while they’re embracing she “pushes the button”, killing both of them.

  88. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 9:51 am  

    quick summation: cliched. contrived. sensational. and..basically a case of providing cheap thrills gone wrong. acting wise tho, i would have said Majriker fared better than Riz.

    that being said, it wasnt complete rubbish either.

    i wish part 2 had a better ending. but they couldnt give the viewers that.

    did anyone have any bad dreams is my question.

    jai: i thought the same thing re dil se!

  89. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 9:59 am  

    invariably, it was so typically and desperately dramatic but completely expected from the likes of C4.

  90. Leon — on 2nd November, 2007 at 10:21 am  

    It was like watching The Matrix and then being forced to watch Revolutions straight after.

    Heh. Tbh the first one was a bit boring and undermined by the contrived plot devices and cliches for me but part two was something else.

    It really lost it for me when she went to Pakistan and her boyfriend turns up!

    In reply to her asking how he found he says some joke about having special powers. Suspension of disbelief well and truly blown out of the water…

  91. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 10:23 am  

    I’ve not seen it, so I can’t really comment much about it, but by just all about accounts it was shite – yet another example of a liberal foisting his own prejudices onto something he knows nothing about. And speaking of which, here is an utterly attrocious review in the Guardian (where else?) in which a liberal….foists her own prejudices onto something she knows nothing about.

    Imagine the scene: Earnest Liberal Guardian goes to interview a wannabe-Suicide Bomber:

    Ahmed Suicide Bomber: Allah Ackbar! I want to kill the Jews and the Christians!
    Guardian Liberal: But, Ahmed, what do you really want?
    Ahmed Suicide Bomber: I told you! I want to kill the Infidels! The Crusaders must die!
    Guardian Liberal: But, Ahmed, what do you really want?

    It would funny if it wasn’t so fucking delusional.

  92. Harmy — on 2nd November, 2007 at 10:45 am  

    I heard alot about this but didn’t get to watch it.

    “The ending seems to have been inspired by the 1998 Shahrukh Khan film “Dil Se”, unless the similarity was just a huge coincidence.”

    Are you serious??

    Can i watch this online?

  93. Rumbold — on 2nd November, 2007 at 10:47 am  

    I enjoyed part 2, and I also applaud the writers’ creation of numerous scences where she stands around in her underwear. It was well acted, but the plot fell down a bit. We never really got a picture of why she wanted to kill British civilians (even with the postscript video). Just before she went to blow herself up, she expressed shock that there would be children at her target. Her handler just said “Muslim children get bombed too” (or words to that effect), and she accepted it, and never raised the issue again.

    The film did well at showing why she might be angry at the British state, but not the British people (which is surely the key thing to draw out).

  94. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:14 am  

    morgoth: LOL. i think “shite” would be a slight exxageration – generally speaking, and from what ive read and heard, there is more of a lukewarm response than anything else. it would have been more interesting, and enlightening, if you had watched it and then left your views.

    rumbold: i enjoyed part 2 over part 1, probably because- and as the guardian reviewer wrote – it was slow and engrossing. weakness in the plot was in her actions not tying up with her motivation and intention. it didnt add up. having said that, i also felt it strongly put forward the view that its misguidance rather than Islam which drives one to commit such crimes – which can only be a good thing. i dont believe Britz justifed why some sections of the community were up in arms and called for it to be banned tho!!

  95. Kismet Hardy — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:19 am  

    “I’ve not seen it, so I can’t really comment much about it, but by just all about accounts it was shite”

    (shakes head)

  96. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:25 am  

    I had better things to do last night, like washing my hair.

  97. Rumbold — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:34 am  

    Sofi:

    “I enjoyed part 2 over part 1, probably because- and as the guardian reviewer wrote – it was slow and engrossing.”

    I preferred the first part actually. In part 1 we saw a conflicted Muslim shaped by events and beliefs. In part 2 she just sort of drifted into becoming a suicide bomber (like when she tried to defend working within the democratic process, was contradicted, and never said another word about it. Why didn’t she explain that she had only just become politically active?).

    Some of the scenes were a bit silly too. Like when she wore the hijab/jilbab for a day and was not allowed to wear it in surgery because it was not considered sterile enough. In surgery she offered to help out, and the surgeon refused. This was portrayed as an attack on her choice of dress, but since when do first-year medical students help out in surgery?

    “I also felt it strongly put forward the view that its misguidance rather than Islam which drives one to commit such crimes – which can only be a good thing.”

    But did any scholar actually come along and explain why this view of Islam was distorted? No. The scence outside the mosque was good (berating the elders), but it would have been nice to have a bit more of that.

  98. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:57 am  

    Morgoth:

    >>had better things to do last night, like washing my hair.

    wow. i assume you have very long hair.

    rumbold: hmm it may have been nice but i dont think they needed a scholar to justify why islam forbids such actions etc, as its not a documentary afterall? the premise that she was going something ‘islamic’ was very weak. maybe that was the point of it? i dont know. part 2 was more cliched, so contrived, sensational and very dramatic (i got teary at the friend;s funeral – it was emotional manipulation at its very best) and all the other -ves i listed in one of my first comments than part 1 but despite this i still preferred it over part 1. i’m in two minds: was the mass publicity and all the hype really worth it?

  99. Leon — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:57 am  

    Why didn’t she explain that she had only just become politically active?

    Or that change doesn’t happen over night, or that opposing the war in Iraq had shaped world opinion enough to make it harder to attack Iran? And so on.

    Her story just wasn’t believable going by the dramatic account. But then the whole drama’s premise was flawed from the outset; the idea that a brother and sister would grow up with one becoming an MI5 worker and the other an Al Qaida operative is a bit far fetched.

  100. Refresh — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:58 am  

    “I had better things to do last night, like washing my hair.”

    You wash your hair?

  101. Refresh — on 2nd November, 2007 at 11:59 am  

    Next you’ll be telling us you actually get out.

  102. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:03 pm  

    leon#99: yep, well said!

  103. Kismet Hardy — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:03 pm  

    Morgoth you’d get on really well with my dad. He hasn’t actually read the Satanic Verses, but by all accounts…

  104. Leon — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:08 pm  

    leon#99: yep, well said!

    Cheers, afterwards I got this feeling that the initial idea for the writer was “Wow wouldn’t it great if a brother and sister, one MI5 the other AQ terrorist, came head to head at the end with a massive 911 style explosion!” and then they straight jacketed the whole story to meet that…

    But anyway, sarcasm aside, my big disappointment was from the writer/director. I watched his account on Dr David Kelly’s death and thought it was excellent. I really had expected much more from him than this.

    (The main actors were good though! Almost wasted talent on this, hopefully they’ll get some good/non typecast roles out of this)

  105. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:09 pm  

    You wash your hair?

    I was joking. I actually shave my head every week. Saves a fortune on shampoo bills.

    He hasn’t actually read the Satanic Verses

    I have. Mulitple times. Biggest cure for insomnia ever. Its a seriously shit book.

  106. Kismet Hardy — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:14 pm  

    That’s fighting talk Morgoth. Rushdie, like Kureishi, were superb writers before they became fat tories

  107. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:18 pm  

    Oh, Rushdie is generally an excellent writer (well, was, at any rate). But the Verses is still crap.

    Good taste in ‘wimmin, though, that man.

  108. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:23 pm  

    >>I was joking. I actually shave my head every week. Saves a fortune on shampoo bills.

    but isnt shaving your own head more of an effort and not to mention messy? or do you get your head shaved? in which case it would hardly be cost effective.

    if you do shave your own head tho, you could have placed yourself in front of the box last night..multi-tasking. look at that!

  109. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:25 pm  

    ???—-I’ve not read Satanic Verses, so I can’t really comment much about it, but by all accounts and given the mass protests, fatwas etc etc it sounded like shite.—-???

  110. Rumbold — on 2nd November, 2007 at 12:26 pm  

    Sofi:

    “I’m in two minds: was the mass publicity and all the hype really worth it?”

    Well no, but then it never is. It was a good drama that raised some interesting questions. I also perked up when they mentioned Yusuf ‘kill the Jews and gays’ Al-Qadarawi’s support for jihad. I wonder if Ken was watching.

  111. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 1:13 pm  

    but isnt shaving your own head more of an effort and not to mention messy? or do you get your head shaved? in which case it would hardly be cost effective.

    Nope, I do it myself. I tend to do it whilst I’m bathing/showering. Its like normal shaving, except I continue up around past my ears.

    The alternative is the mother of all bald spots.

  112. El Cid — on 2nd November, 2007 at 1:18 pm  

    The nice soft piano loop as she rides in to Canary Wharf on the dlr, instead of the derrr-dum derrr-dum dum-dum-dum-dum we should have got…

    The ref to hurting the UK economy by killing a few suited mean and assorted familes/musicians on what was clearly the weekend (as if)…

    The way her mum just acquiesced in the potential murder of the black fellah in Pakistan and the way our heroine just legged it, abandoning her so-called man (Corr, these moslim women are nice, ain’t they))…

    The way the leap from being angry and alienated to killing scores of people (presumably through exposure to terrorist preaching) didn’t play a part in the moralising and wankstain conclusions…

    The way no-one sat next to her coz she was wearing a hijab (give over)…

    The way no one questioned the morality of using someone else’s charred body to fool the police (prolly just some dutty untouchable, so don’t matter, ennit)…

    The way she decides to take her brother to the afterlife too, just like that….

    In the final analysis, what a pile of drivel (a bit like the 3rd series of 24, albeit from the opposite angle).

  113. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 1:32 pm  

    >>Nope, I do it myself. I tend to do it whilst I’m bathing/showering. Its like normal shaving, except I continue up around past my ears.

    in that case, you should invest in a small tv for the bath/shower room.

    el cid: just as well i missed most of series 3!

  114. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 1:51 pm  

    The TV would just get in the way of the piles of books and magazines.

    Martin Luther dreamed up Protestanism whilst suffering from chronic constipation, didn’t you know?

  115. Kismet Hardy — on 2nd November, 2007 at 1:58 pm  

    Perhaps this is why the shaven haired likes of us come here to nit pick…

  116. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 2:03 pm  

    i duno. isnt reading a book/magazine whilst showering a tad impractical?

    anyway, toodlepips!

  117. chrisc — on 2nd November, 2007 at 2:09 pm  

    We know the writer has a misguided agenda (cf Jagdeep #11).

    What this drama shows is that it is not easy to dramatise political ideas.
    You just get a very stilted result, as with this.

  118. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 2:14 pm  

    i duno. isnt reading a book/magazine whilst showering a tad impractical?

    Yes. Reading material for showering isn’t much cop other than “The Cat Sat On The Mat”.

    Reading in the bathroom is for the other use of that room.

  119. Owl — on 2nd November, 2007 at 2:29 pm  

    Watched P2 of the heavily hyped Britz last night.

    The pre-publicity ensured it was predictable in the extreme, that of cliched ramblings of a self loathing white liberal apologist.

    All the pre-publicity emphasis on the nasty British government and the laws they have passed since 7/7, force fed at the end, just “why a British Muslim becomes a terrorist”.

    COMPLETELY IGNORES

    the fact that 99% homegrown terrorists and jihadis were active long before 7/7, and were generally motivated by a general, airy fairy sense of greivance, cheerleaded by spittle mouthed rabbled rousers, and reinforced by a large collection of Jihad Porn DVDs, featuring 10 year old footage of suicide bombings ‘somewhere’, the dead ‘somewhere’ and some titles and graphics conjured up on a ZX Spectrum.

    Holidays to Pakistan and Afghanistan to “find a wife” or “do charity work” were a well established past time long before many of these laws were passed.

    This whole focus on 7/7 might be valid in a FICTIONAL TV drama, but completely does not address REALITY.

    The 7/7 gang were well down the path before Afghanistan and Iraq. Post 7/7 numerous young men who have recently been banged up were shown to have been active pre 7/7.

    The whole thing was a cop out.

    A drama exploring the “cause” and “effect” of what has actually happened in this country with the 7/7 gang, Huggy Bear and mate in Tel Aviv, and numerous other plotters came to be, would simply open a rather more politically incorrect, messy, unpleasant can of worms. And we can’t have that, can we ?

  120. Morgoth — on 2nd November, 2007 at 2:32 pm  

    Holidays to Pakistan and Afghanistan to “find a wife” or “do charity work” were a well established past time long before many of these laws were passed.

    Don’t forget the best excuse yet for being conveninently in a middle of a war zone: Giant Naan Breads.

  121. Jai — on 2nd November, 2007 at 2:33 pm  

    What this drama shows is that it is not easy to dramatise political ideas.
    You just get a very stilted result, as with this.

    I thought that the docudrama “The Hamburg Cell” and the TV series “Sleeper Cell” (second season already shown in the US) did it better, although obviously they weren’t about British Muslims.

    ******************

    Harmy,

    Are you serious??

    Can i watch this online?

    Yeah, in many ways the final sequence was identical to Dil Se. I don’t know if clips are available online yet, but apparently you can watch the whole thing for free on Channel 4′s own “Britz” website.

    The ending of the Britz version doesn’t make sense because the girl concerned is the hero’s sister (why would he be unwilling to live without her ? Unless he thought she wouldn’t actually detonate the explosives once he was hugging her), although in Dil Se it was because Shahrukh was obsessively in love with Manisha Koirala’s character (not his sister, I hasten to add for the benefit of those who haven’t seen the movie).

    I guess that makes Sohail’s foxy blonde colleague the equivalent of Preity Zinta’s character, who Shahrukh was engaged to ;)

  122. soru — on 2nd November, 2007 at 3:13 pm  

    It’s an interesting question is whether it is easier to dramatise political ideas if they happen _not_ to be misguided bollocks.

    I guess when people see something on screen and recognise it as their lives, that can be powerful, independantly of whether things actually work in purely narrative terms. On the other hand, getting it wrong can destroy the enjoyment for those expecting such recognition and not finding it. And an idea that didn’t lead to that kind of problem can’t be all that wrong.

    It’s just one thing that can go wrong, but making good TV is difficult enough you don’t want another handicap. Stick to daleks and cybermen, you can project your own political fantasies on to them and there won’t be a fragment of the audience pointing and laughing.

  123. Sofi — on 2nd November, 2007 at 3:29 pm  

    >>Reading in the bathroom is for the other use of that room

    i had gathered that. however, the whole reason why i got into this inane-ness was your first comment on missing britz thanks to you washing your hair. it was just some advice so you neednt repeat the same mistake!

  124. Leon — on 2nd November, 2007 at 3:46 pm  

    All the pre-publicity emphasis on the nasty British government and the laws they have passed since 7/7

    One small point, it mentions the laws passed since 1997. It also mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq which were before July 7.

  125. Owl — on 2nd November, 2007 at 5:13 pm  

    ” One small point, it mentions the laws passed since 1997. It also mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq which were before July 7. ”

    The July 7th boys (and many others) were active pre Afghanistan and Iraq, in as much as they had they were acting on their magnified sense of grievance and irrational hatreds and seeking outlets for this mindset/ideology.

    The July the 7th gang apparently broke off from their Jihad Porn DVDs to celebrate 9/11 with Pringles and fizzy pop (see the Guardian). And course 9/11 was pre Afghanistan.

    Britz purported to show why a British suicide bomber would come about, and tried to link it with a variety of causes, laying these much at the feet of the British state, laws, oppression etcetera.

    The fact is, the of the ten to fifteen or “British” suicide bombers to date, there is little to suggest that the Britz plot has any reflection.

    One of first “British” suicide bomber struck in The Punjab, another in Africa, a couple in Israel, and their radicalisation was not directly related by any issues directly related to the British state as shown in Britz.

  126. El Cid — on 2nd November, 2007 at 5:32 pm  

    Inspired by Britz, I’ve got another ignorant whitey question directed at the Asians on this site: if you or your sister was woman enough to have a full-on boyfriend and your dad found out and gave you a slap and ordered you to go to the motherland the next day to find a husband, would you or your sister go?

  127. SajiniW — on 2nd November, 2007 at 6:47 pm  

    El Cid, my answer is ‘no’. My parents are happy for me to date professionals from their preferred list of races/religions.

    If I were found to be dating someone who didn’t meet their approval then I’d stick to my guns and the parental types would do their utmost to find ‘approved’ suitors for me over here. None of that ‘holiday husband trip’ lark for the Sri Lankans, I’m afraid – though hypothetically speaking, I wouldn’t go.

  128. El Cid — on 2nd November, 2007 at 8:32 pm  

    Sajini
    In your case, is that no blacks and no muslims?

  129. shariq — on 3rd November, 2007 at 1:30 am  

    El Cid – A quick point on your question. Didn’t Naseema tell her parents that she had a boyfriend so that she could go to a training camp in Pakistan without arousing much suspicion.

    There were obviously some faults with Britz but I actually enjoyed it.

    One of the things which amused me though was how her family in Pakistan is clearly well to do and educated. For instance her aunt speaks fluent English, as does her cousin who also listens to Razorlight.

    Yet she’s living out on some farm somewhere rather than a developed urban/suburban neighbourhood and she has to wash her own clothes in a very traditional manner. There’s no way that her family either doesn’t have a washing machine or someone who comes around to do the washing.

  130. El Cid — on 3rd November, 2007 at 4:11 pm  

    Shariq
    I think you’re right. I stand corrected on that.
    But I was just wondering whether British Asian women in general were really that subservient to a paternalistic tyranny.

    I thought it wasn’t toooo bad as entertainment — the “Diffrn’t Strokes” moralising at the end was wank though and I don’t think the point the director wanted to make was well made or convincing.

    I was also hoping my point #128 was a lame cliche.

  131. Shariq — on 3rd November, 2007 at 4:33 pm  

    El Cid.

    Agreed about the moralising-completely unnecessary. I thought it worked best as a tragedy rather than a political commentary. It was sad and gripping how at each stage something might have stopped her from becoming a suicidal terrorist, but didn’t.

    Unfortunately your point 128 isn’t a cliche. In fact I’d even go as far as saying that some parents would prefer their daughter married a white christian then a black muslim.

  132. Ali — on 3rd November, 2007 at 4:56 pm  

    As usual a simplistic programme trying to tackle complex situations. I don’t think a pakastani male exists in the UK who loves being british so much that he wants to work for the facists.

  133. El Cid — on 3rd November, 2007 at 5:15 pm  

    I don’t think a pakastani male exists in the UK who loves being british so much that he wants to work for the facists.

    You sure? I mean sure sure. I have a feeling you might be wrong

  134. SajiniW — on 4th November, 2007 at 10:01 am  

    Re: post 128.

    I’m afraid the cliche is true.

  135. El Cid — on 4th November, 2007 at 2:50 pm  

    Let’s be fair to your parents, though, Sajini.
    So-called progressives also have latent prejudices which can be laid bare when it comes to their children, even if these prejudices are slightly more refined and specific.

  136. Jagdeep — on 4th November, 2007 at 3:42 pm  

    A direful, clumsy, moronic denouement.

    Peter Kosminsky’s craven and conceited soft-soaping and apologia for the collective-culpability and collective-guilt logic of the suicide bombers:

    Are we? Are we innocent? I know the impact the anti-terror laws are having on British Muslims, even if I choose to look away. I know how the attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan and how uncritical support for Israel are seen by Muslims here and overseas but, like so many others, I do nothing; I look away. Can I, under these circumstances, claim to be truly innocent? Can you? Can we really, with honour, complain if we get caught up in the inevitable backlash – here on the streets of our green and sometimes pleasant land?

    link

    The final screed of the suicide-bomber addressed to the audience at the end of the drama:

    ‘You are not innocent, while you keep electing this government, while you sit on your hands and do nothing while they pass these laws that you know are wrong, while you look away while they butcher innocent Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Lebanon and you do nothing. You are not innocent and you will continue to be our target to the last drop of our blood, so help me God.’

    What a cowardly, crude and witless conflation of white Leftist angst, confusion and neurosis with the narcissism and self-creating fascistic violence of the jihadi and suicide bomber. A crude piece of propaganda from a deeply confused mind. As a personification of the witless apologia for suicide-bombing and the jihadist’s violence it can stand as an exemplar — the posturing, preening narcissism of it all.

    It’s interesting that Kosminsky says in his interview that he originally wanted to make a drama documentary based on the 7/7 bombers, of a type that he has previously produced. It’s understood that fiction can often bring us closer to the truth. In the case of this drama series, Kosminsky wrote a fiction to get away from the truth, because the reality of British suicide bombers did not fit his propagandist motivation. So he turned away from the truths we have, minutely detailed and open to all, the lives, motives, ideology, and impulses of Mohammad Siddique Khan, Hasib Hussain, Germaine Lindsay, Shazad Tanweer, Richard Reid, Dhiren Bhanot, the ‘Dancing Sluts’ Crew, Asif Mohammed Hanif, Omar Khan Sharif, the Glasgow fireballs who got banjoed by John Smeaton, Saajid Badat, Muktar Said Ibrahim, Yassin Omar, Ramzi Mohammed, Osman Hussain, and on and on and on ad infintum, so that he could write a specious drama (congested with a convoluted contrived storyline of an MI5 / suicide bomber brother and sister double act that even Bollywood would have blushed at), with a morally moronic denouement that was nothing more than the money shot he’d been storing up, the scratching spitting simplicity of it all. He ran away from the truth, the facts, the reality, in order to spin this tale of agitprop and woe.

    On many other issues Kosminsky is deeply confused. Comparing the impulse to make the series to counteract the demonisation of Muslims, by ‘humanising’ the suicide bomber. As if the suicide bomber is the personification and locus of British Muslim society, the locus that needs to be rehabilitated and understood. Comparing it in an interview to ‘demonising’ Germans because of the Nazis, invoking in this specious and ill-fitting comparison a very simplistic and limited understanding of the issues here, issues of magnitude and perspective skewed —- oh woe was us because of the inflation rate of the Weimar Republic, and the humiliation of the Versaille settlement, and the humiliation of the Germanic peoples — now you are to blame for these Jews being rounded up, these gypsies being shot, those that disagree with us being killed. What a confused mind this man has.

  137. Mick Hall — on 4th November, 2007 at 4:29 pm  
  138. Don — on 4th November, 2007 at 4:47 pm  

    Nice one, Jagdeep.

  139. sonia — on 4th November, 2007 at 6:27 pm  

    oh for goodness sakes. its a film, of course its going to examine extremes in behaviour and set up a polarisation..and examine those polarities.

    look at hollywood films.why should we expect anything different from this drama? just because its about muslims?

  140. sonia — on 4th November, 2007 at 6:30 pm  

    it would be something if all the criticism i’m hearing was set within that wider critique of the rubbish world of tv.

  141. Jagdeep — on 4th November, 2007 at 7:25 pm  

    What’s the wider critique of TV sonia?

  142. sonia — on 4th November, 2007 at 7:38 pm  

    that its generally two-dimensional that’s what. good vs evil and those kinds of silly polarities.

  143. Jagdeep — on 4th November, 2007 at 7:41 pm  

    Well, that’s the quality of the writing of individual works, not neseccarily the medium. Although I agree, this was a poorly written, confused and preening piece of agit-prop idiocy.

  144. Dave From London — on 5th November, 2007 at 3:51 am  

    I feel that the UK Industry needs to begin employing more British Asians Specifically Pakistani Bengali & Muslim film writer & directors to tackle such a topic as Britz and also to promote Diversity

    Recently a journalist writer friend of mine said to me that there’s a wave of new British talent in the UK and the names below are the hottest and raising stars for the future.

    They have been ceremony titled THE BRIT-PAK

    Safraz Manzoor(Journalist, Novelist) Riz Ahmed (Actor Singer)Yousaf Ali Khan (writer, director) Aneel Ahmad (Writer, Director) Jinx (Pop Group) Zam Salim (Writer, Director)

    And we will be seeing a lot of them in years to come.
    ps – theres a great article Safraz has written for the Guardian.

    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sarfraz_manzoor/2007/11/tvs_white_middle-class_ghetto.html
    Dave

  145. a — on 5th November, 2007 at 6:07 pm  

    hey guys

    i acted in it mainly in 2nd part and its a film to give some interesting thoughts and perceptions on life as a second gen fem and the roads to which she could travel

    look it at as a film not reality

    cheers for the replies

    a

  146. Jagdeep — on 5th November, 2007 at 6:15 pm  

    ha! Dave from London, Jinx are such a useless and untalented act.

    Well a, congratulations on your acting role. Sure, it was just a film, not ‘reality’. But it certainly positioned itself, and its writer and director asserted his work as an ‘important’ intervention into a national debate, and in so many ways, used the template of ‘realism’ as the assumed form for its righteous and truthful ‘examination’ and agit prop denouement.

  147. Dave from London — on 6th November, 2007 at 1:22 am  

    Actually I agree, I don’t think Jinx are any good, but I suppose its due to the success of their last album and being of British Pakistani Origin.

    Give them credit they have made waves in the music industry last year within the Asian Music Scene.

    I am not Asian but i do have many British Pakistani friends its good to see a diverse range of British Pakistani’s coming through the industry.

    I personally felt that Britz was a good 2 part drama.
    Unreal in some places, but it was good

  148. Dave From London — on 6th November, 2007 at 1:35 am  

    by the way- Michael Winterbottom directed Road to Guantanamo not Ken Loach.
    I personally felt Riz Ahmed was fantastic in Britz Keep up the good work. Excellent

  149. Stella — on 7th November, 2007 at 2:24 pm  

    I have a question that I’m almost embarrassed to ask because it is probably extremely naive, but in thinking of the issues of Islamophobia and radical Muslims, I really need it answering.

    The invasion of Afghanistan was in response to 9/11. What was 9/11 in response to? American support for Israel?

    I ask this question without any guile and without wishing to cause offence.

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