I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

I’m sure you mean that, Don, but judging by what’s gone before I suspect you speak only for yourself. I did actually see that Jai had said the same thing, which was why I tried to join in a bit more, but I really wish I hadn’t bothered.

I long ago decided that there was no point in responding to Bikhair’s squalid comments. Still, it’s a self-imposed rule and perhaps I should have broken it on this occasion.

As for HP, I never give it a moment’s thought, but I guess that there is a connection of sorts between the two sites and many people are unhappy at the preponderance of abusive bigots in the comments section, which makes responding to the often worthwhile articles a waste of time. I don’t think anyone is having a go at David T.

Perhaps the recent spate of HP directed comments has something to do with the fact that a particularly odious specimen has taken to hanging around here bringing the tone down.

I know I speak for more than myself when I say we miss having you around here, Katy. Even when you are boxing ears.

No. I’d have thought that people would have reacted against the offensive comment first, actually.

And you have to remember that I waited to see if anyone said anything about it to Bikhair for quite a long time before I commented in the first place.

Jesus, why am I even still here?

Let’s take this stept by step Katy.

No one has yet agreed with what Bikhair said or expressed any support for it. We’re all agreed its a grossly insensitive comment to make.

But you say you are disgusted by her, and then you accuse all of us of covert anti-semitism, and you want us to let that go?

If an occasional Jewish commenter here made an offensive remark against Muslims, and someone responded by saying that every other commenter on that blog is culpable in that prejudice, you don’t think that is the first thing people are going to react against?

I can’t believe I’m actually in tears over this stupid, fucking website full of people who STILL think that my taking offence is more serious than the vile slur that actually got me upset in the first place. Just close the comments or whatever, but please don’t come back to me on it because I’m actually at the end of my tether with it. All right? Yes, I’m absolutely shit, I’m far, far worse than the people who actually MAKE racist comments, I’m terribly sorry I dared to suggest that you didn’t take Bikhair’s comments as seriously as comments directed to other groups even though you all seem to think that I’ve committed a much more serious sin than she did, and I hope you can all sit here and congratulate yourself on making me feel that pointing out what she said was absolutely futile.

Are you really accusing Sunny and the rest of us as antisemites now because we don’t all respond to covert and overt antisemitic comments in unison? Beware the cavernous, morally relativist black hole that you’re in danger of tripping into because of your own personal failure to respond to every piece of racism that gets posted on this blog.

As I said above, action against racism is not a zero-sum game. I don’t speak out against Islamophobia and not speak out against anti-semitism. I’d be happy to do both. You agreed there was more overt Islamophobia and very subtle anti-semitism. I agree with you, perhaps that was the distinction I didn’t make.

But just because I think there is more prejudice against Muslims out there doesn’t mean I cannot challenge anti-semitism when I see it. You’re assuming that, and saying essentially I don’t care about anti-semitism. That is annoying to me.

I’m sorry if you feel I lumped you all together

It’s not about feeling, you did actually lump us all together. See Jai’s comment above (which I agree with throughout).

instead of action being taken against the person who said it I’m being attacked for the way in which I expressed my outrage.

You’re not being attacked. You’re being pulled up for making generalisations against all the writers and commenters on this blog, that is the annoying part. If you’d simply expressed disgust at Bikhair that would have been fine. But you have to go further and say this is part of a trend at PP, which I find really bizarre since you’re a regular reader here.

That’s how I felt. Do you want me to pretend otherwise? You yourself said to me in a comment above that you think there’s more antisemitism than Islamophobia around and that it’s more serious in the way it’s expressed. How is that aimed at making me think that you take antisemitism as seriously as other forms of racism?

As for what I said about the Holocaust – I’m sorry if you feel I lumped you all together but I notice none of you level the same criticism at Douglas for talking about “Jews” as a homogenous group in exactly the same way.

What’s actually happened here is that I identified comments that I felt to be offensive, and although you agree that they were offensive, instead of action being taken against the person who said it I’m being attacked for the way in which I expressed my outrage. What part of this, exactly, is fair?

I was out last night till very late hence I didn’t delete it. When I came back, this firestorm was raging and I was quite annoyed by your insinuation that this blog had turned into a Jewish hate-fest or that we were happy to tolerate anti-semitism but not Islamophobia.

I know how you all despise the way Jews are still haunted by the Holocaust, but we are.

With all due respect, exactly who do you mean by the term “all” ? All people on this thread ? All the regular commenters on PP ?

I am certain that you do not mean “all Muslims” or even “all Asians”, but in any case, this is a serious allegation to make and also a huge generalisation. And within the context of this blog, it’s also very, very wrong, considering that (for example) people like myself and Jagdeep have repeatedly forcefully condemned the objections some drive-by Muslim commenters have had to the fact that Holocaust Memorial Day mainly focuses on what happened to Jewish people, rather than “simultaneously dealing with the suffering of all oppressed peoples around the world.”

If you’re all comfortable with what Bikhair said you just sit there and listen to it.

It’s the weekend, Katy. Bear in mind that many regular commenters (myself included) will be getting on with their lives during this time, because the weekend is one of the few breaks we have from extremely stressful, demanding jobs during the weekdays, and we finally have the chance to catch up on other things, generally taking a breather, meeting family obligations and commitments, meeting friends, and so on. Aside from catching up on social emails, accessing the internet in order to go onto online discussion websites and argue with people (either during the daytime or, especially, during the middle of the night) is not necessarily high up on our list of priorities. Those of us who would immediately shoot down the type of remark Bikhair made are simply not around, because we do not spend our lives in front of our computers and we have far too many other responsibilities and activities to deal with. And also bear in mind what Sunny said about how people may ignore such idiotic statements because they’ve become used to such attention-seeking “flame-baiting” by certain individuals, and they just tune it out rather than giving it any more oxygen.

However, for the record, I think Bikhair’s remark was ridiculously flippant, insensitive, possibly deliberately geared to be “flaming”, and certainly extremely immature. Douglas’s statement about Jewish people “playing the religious red card when they are losing an argument” was also a huge generalisation, needlessly provocative and very offensive.

I hope this addresses your concerns sufficiently.

Not all offensive comments get deleted immediately, and many more hang around on threads forever. I usually make it a point to reply to those comments because I enjoy exercising my talent for expletive filled troll

I don’t like commenting on Harry’s Place because for every sensible commenter there’s 10 hate-filled cretins who’ve made it a point to out-Amis Amis, and who fill out the comments box with their poison. The failure of Harry’s Place is that they’ve allowed that type of commenter to dominate. So it’s just a self defeating waste of time trying to argue there.

“Well that’s what you get from being de-sensitised to comments against which indicriminately equate all muslims to terrorists, paedophiles and racists or the racism against blacks and asians. There are so many more of those and, not to mention, uninhibitedly offensive nasty remarks, that the large majority of commenters simply ignore and read on.”

That is because we expect them to be deleted soon enough.

“I reject the insinuation that Sunny is supporting antisemitism because he doesn’t reject every antisemitic comment just as I would if some say that he is anti-muslim because he doesn’t delete every nasty comment against muslims.”

I do not think that there is an anti-semitic bone in Sunny’s body, and I am sorry that is what you inferred from my comment. I apologise to Sunny unreservedly.

Like you, I do think that anti-semitism is underplayed by some people. Douglas is not one of those people though, as his comment at #31 indicated. I have always found Douglas to be an intelligent commentator who has a dislike for organised religion. I often disagree with him, but would happily describe him as reasonable. His description of AIPAC as a Jewish lobby was incorrect, but now more than that. As Sahil pointed out, AIPAC likes to present itself as lobbying for the Jews, even if in reality it is not.

‘Harry’s Place’ is brought up here far too many times, and it suggests a sort of cowardice that the relevent commentators don’t just go and make their complaints on the actual blog. I do not think that Pickled Politics allows anti-semitism to reign unchecked, though it would have been nice if more people had reacted to Bikhair’s anti-semitic comment.

But I also agree with Refresh. I’m sorry that my comments have derailed this thread, but I do also feel that if people had been quicker to acknowledge that what Bikhair said was out of order it wouldn’t have happened. All I’m asking is that offensive comments be dealt with in the same way no matter who they come from or who they’re directed at, and I don’t think that is too much to expect.