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	<title>Comments on: The problem with Myanmar is people know so little they still call it Burma</title>
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	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Desi Italiana</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82519</link>
		<dc:creator>Desi Italiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 09:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82519</guid>
		<description>China is Burma&#039;s biggest trade partner, and India has been arming Burma for a long time.  

Myanmar was the name chosen by the military, and some folks refuse to use it because it was chosen by the military.

Info coming out of Burma and into Western media is not too often, mostly because press freedom is curtailed for Burmese journalists, and the Burmese gov&#039;t rarely grants visas to foreign journalists.

The US, for its parts, has tightened sanctions and placed some more on 12 officials of the Burmese regime (I think). It&#039;s also issued a &quot;support&quot; statement, though when asked whether the US will substantially support the pro-democracy movement in Burma, it&#039;s all &quot;hypothetical.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China is Burma&#8217;s biggest trade partner, and India has been arming Burma for a long time.  </p>
<p>Myanmar was the name chosen by the military, and some folks refuse to use it because it was chosen by the military.</p>
<p>Info coming out of Burma and into Western media is not too often, mostly because press freedom is curtailed for Burmese journalists, and the Burmese gov&#8217;t rarely grants visas to foreign journalists.</p>
<p>The US, for its parts, has tightened sanctions and placed some more on 12 officials of the Burmese regime (I think). It&#8217;s also issued a &#8220;support&#8221; statement, though when asked whether the US will substantially support the pro-democracy movement in Burma, it&#8217;s all &#8220;hypothetical.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kulvinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82187</link>
		<dc:creator>Kulvinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82187</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; Support for the Burmese people is being dismissed as a P.R. exercise by the UK/US governments. If the British and American standpoints are PR exercises then what are the Russian and Chinese standpoints representative of ?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Their own PR excercise?? I&#039;m not sure what your point is, without supporting a particular person i support the general quest for representative government in Myanmar (its the officially recognised term and im not going to change the name i use lest i change every other name) but the words of support from the US/UK &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; just a PR stunt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> Support for the Burmese people is being dismissed as a P.R. exercise by the UK/US governments. If the British and American standpoints are PR exercises then what are the Russian and Chinese standpoints representative of ?</p></blockquote>
<p>Their own PR excercise?? I&#8217;m not sure what your point is, without supporting a particular person i support the general quest for representative government in Myanmar (its the officially recognised term and im not going to change the name i use lest i change every other name) but the words of support from the US/UK <i>is</i> just a PR stunt.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82169</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82169</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/simon_tisdall/2007/09/the_burmese_blame_game.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I think this is a suitable reply&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/simon_tisdall/2007/09/the_burmese_blame_game.html" rel="nofollow">I think this is a suitable reply</a></p>
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		<title>By: inders</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82164</link>
		<dc:creator>inders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82164</guid>
		<description>Not all liberals sunny.  Just read some of the comments above.  Support for the Burmese people is being dismissed as a P.R. exercise by the UK/US governments.  If the British and American standpoints are PR exercises then what are the Russian and Chinese standpoints representative of ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all liberals sunny.  Just read some of the comments above.  Support for the Burmese people is being dismissed as a P.R. exercise by the UK/US governments.  If the British and American standpoints are PR exercises then what are the Russian and Chinese standpoints representative of ?</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82158</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82158</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The liberals can hardly bring themselves to support a liberal movement in a developing country on the grounds that â€˜the westâ€™ also supports it.&lt;/i&gt;

Which liberals? I didn&#039;t blog about it only because I had so much other stuff to push through. I&#039;m on the Facebook group dammit! :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The liberals can hardly bring themselves to support a liberal movement in a developing country on the grounds that â€˜the westâ€™ also supports it.</i></p>
<p>Which liberals? I didn&#8217;t blog about it only because I had so much other stuff to push through. I&#8217;m on the Facebook group dammit! <img src='http://www.pickledpolitics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: inders</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82153</link>
		<dc:creator>inders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82153</guid>
		<description>It has come to this.  The liberals can hardly bring themselves to support a liberal movement in a developing country on the grounds that &#039;the west&#039; also supports it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has come to this.  The liberals can hardly bring themselves to support a liberal movement in a developing country on the grounds that &#8216;the west&#8217; also supports it.</p>
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		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82140</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82140</guid>
		<description>Anna,

Just to agree with Leon, really. You have knowledge of this situation that I most certainly do not. Sharing is good. So, please, stick around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna,</p>
<p>Just to agree with Leon, really. You have knowledge of this situation that I most certainly do not. Sharing is good. So, please, stick around.</p>
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		<title>By: Kulvinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82138</link>
		<dc:creator>Kulvinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82138</guid>
		<description>*sigh* fine.

I consider myself important enough for the majestic plural.  Reading comments elsewhere led me to believe an article was desired.  Noone else did anything; so i thought of a novel way to write and start a discussion about something i didn&#039;t know much about without banally parroting the work of other blogs.  

As a rule of thumb i don&#039;t ever take into consideration the knowledge of anyone who&#039;ll read what i write.  Good for you if you know more than me about a subject, but i&#039;m hardly likely to respond well to someone asking why their experience wasn&#039;t foremost in my thoughts whilst writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*sigh* fine.</p>
<p>I consider myself important enough for the majestic plural.  Reading comments elsewhere led me to believe an article was desired.  Noone else did anything; so i thought of a novel way to write and start a discussion about something i didn&#8217;t know much about without banally parroting the work of other blogs.  </p>
<p>As a rule of thumb i don&#8217;t ever take into consideration the knowledge of anyone who&#8217;ll read what i write.  Good for you if you know more than me about a subject, but i&#8217;m hardly likely to respond well to someone asking why their experience wasn&#8217;t foremost in my thoughts whilst writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82133</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82133</guid>
		<description>Anna, I was considering writing something but not having enough time to do the research (as I know a bit but not as much as someone who&#039;s been directly involved in activism with this) I thought it&#039;d be wiser to not. 

I must admit when I read Kulvinder&#039;s piece I thought &#039;hang on a sec, you may not know much but I know a bit and known plenty that know more!&#039; (including a close friend from the country, who with her family, escaped there after the last major crackdown in the late 80s).

Anyway my rambling aside, I mean yes I see your point and want to add, please stick around. The more diverse and informed opinion on here the better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna, I was considering writing something but not having enough time to do the research (as I know a bit but not as much as someone who&#8217;s been directly involved in activism with this) I thought it&#8217;d be wiser to not. </p>
<p>I must admit when I read Kulvinder&#8217;s piece I thought &#8216;hang on a sec, you may not know much but I know a bit and known plenty that know more!&#8217; (including a close friend from the country, who with her family, escaped there after the last major crackdown in the late 80s).</p>
<p>Anyway my rambling aside, I mean yes I see your point and want to add, please stick around. The more diverse and informed opinion on here the better.</p>
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		<title>By: Kulvinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82132</link>
		<dc:creator>Kulvinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82132</guid>
		<description>Then perhaps she should read the blog more carefully to understand how this article came about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then perhaps she should read the blog more carefully to understand how this article came about.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82126</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82126</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;ha!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, alright son. You already got done over the name, stop digging that hole. Anna has a point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>ha!</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, alright son. You already got done over the name, stop digging that hole. Anna has a point.</p>
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		<title>By: Kulvinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82123</link>
		<dc:creator>Kulvinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82123</guid>
		<description>ha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ha!</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82121</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82121</guid>
		<description>I agree that there is something very troubling about people mobilizing around an issue because of slogans and not information. However, this piece assumes that everyone is equally uninformed, and I&#039;m not trying to say &quot;well I&#039;m not!&quot; I&#039;m trying to say that there has been an awful lot of activism on this issue for the past 20 years, both in Canada and the UK (I only know these two examples as I have not lived elsewhere), and so when Kulvinder asks, &#039;Aung San Suu Kyi may be a symbol for democracy but can any of us claim to know what her philosophical ideas actually are?&#039; the answer is, &#039;for many, yes.&#039; And of course it&#039;s important to then try and educate ourselves and others if we/they don&#039;t know enough about the issue, but I really, really don&#039;t see this piece as advocating that--I see it as saying, &quot;well I don&#039;t know anything, so I assume other people don&#039;t either, so let&#039;s all give up and just hope for the best.&quot; I&#039;m really not ok with people being complacent about their ignorance.

But thanks for the comment, Nyrone. Kulvinder, as a long-time reader of this blog I find it really disappointing that you&#039;d respond to reasonable criticism in such a childish way, and this is the kind of shitty not-even-rhetoric that keeps people from taking blogs seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that there is something very troubling about people mobilizing around an issue because of slogans and not information. However, this piece assumes that everyone is equally uninformed, and I&#8217;m not trying to say &#8220;well I&#8217;m not!&#8221; I&#8217;m trying to say that there has been an awful lot of activism on this issue for the past 20 years, both in Canada and the UK (I only know these two examples as I have not lived elsewhere), and so when Kulvinder asks, &#8216;Aung San Suu Kyi may be a symbol for democracy but can any of us claim to know what her philosophical ideas actually are?&#8217; the answer is, &#8216;for many, yes.&#8217; And of course it&#8217;s important to then try and educate ourselves and others if we/they don&#8217;t know enough about the issue, but I really, really don&#8217;t see this piece as advocating that&#8211;I see it as saying, &#8220;well I don&#8217;t know anything, so I assume other people don&#8217;t either, so let&#8217;s all give up and just hope for the best.&#8221; I&#8217;m really not ok with people being complacent about their ignorance.</p>
<p>But thanks for the comment, Nyrone. Kulvinder, as a long-time reader of this blog I find it really disappointing that you&#8217;d respond to reasonable criticism in such a childish way, and this is the kind of shitty not-even-rhetoric that keeps people from taking blogs seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Nyrone</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82110</link>
		<dc:creator>Nyrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82110</guid>
		<description>That was a bit harsh Anna. 
He may just be talking about the mainstream collective viewpoint as it presently stands. It&#039;s good that you know about the issue, but a lot of people simply don&#039;t...and I think the overall intention of the article is an honest one, pushing us to re-examine what we really know about the country and what lead us to the current political climax.

Even now, reading a few of the comments on Burma Videos on Youtube, I can see individuals that have written stuff like &quot;Let&#039;s do it! Let&#039;s free Burma!&quot; and I&#039;m not sure they understand anything about the deep-rooted tension and complexities inside the country...I guess my point is that I don&#039;t just read blogs for the most knowledgeable facts, but also for the unique individual viewpoints and how questions are posed on here too...It&#039;s a conversational debate, not a lecture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a bit harsh Anna.<br />
He may just be talking about the mainstream collective viewpoint as it presently stands. It&#8217;s good that you know about the issue, but a lot of people simply don&#8217;t&#8230;and I think the overall intention of the article is an honest one, pushing us to re-examine what we really know about the country and what lead us to the current political climax.</p>
<p>Even now, reading a few of the comments on Burma Videos on Youtube, I can see individuals that have written stuff like &#8220;Let&#8217;s do it! Let&#8217;s free Burma!&#8221; and I&#8217;m not sure they understand anything about the deep-rooted tension and complexities inside the country&#8230;I guess my point is that I don&#8217;t just read blogs for the most knowledgeable facts, but also for the unique individual viewpoints and how questions are posed on here too&#8230;It&#8217;s a conversational debate, not a lecture.</p>
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		<title>By: Kulvinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82107</link>
		<dc:creator>Kulvinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82107</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d try to explain how this article came to be, but you bore me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d try to explain how this article came to be, but you bore me.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82103</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82103</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Myanmar is such a hazy country in our minds that when asked we canâ€™t even recall the name of its leader. We know theres a military Junta, we know theres a woman called Aung San Suu Kyi and thats about it. Whilst I support the right to self-determination of any people I honestly donâ€™t know what to say about Myanmar other than I wish the people can live as they choose. &lt;/i&gt;

Uhh, speak for yourself, and use &quot;I&quot; rather than &quot;we&quot;. When I did my undergraduate in Canada, Aung San Ruu Kyi was required reading for students studying human rights, and she is fairly widely read. The protests and boycotts against Burma/Myanmar were huge in Canada in the early/mid &#039;90s. I don&#039;t understand the idea of posting a blog piece that says &quot;I am commenting on this issue to say that I don&#039;t really understand this issue and that because I, Mr Smart-Man-Who-Follows-Politics don&#039;t understand it, I&#039;m going to assume that you don&#039;t either.&quot; Why not just leave the blog piece to someone who is informed or go do some research?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Myanmar is such a hazy country in our minds that when asked we canâ€™t even recall the name of its leader. We know theres a military Junta, we know theres a woman called Aung San Suu Kyi and thats about it. Whilst I support the right to self-determination of any people I honestly donâ€™t know what to say about Myanmar other than I wish the people can live as they choose. </i></p>
<p>Uhh, speak for yourself, and use &#8220;I&#8221; rather than &#8220;we&#8221;. When I did my undergraduate in Canada, Aung San Ruu Kyi was required reading for students studying human rights, and she is fairly widely read. The protests and boycotts against Burma/Myanmar were huge in Canada in the early/mid &#8217;90s. I don&#8217;t understand the idea of posting a blog piece that says &#8220;I am commenting on this issue to say that I don&#8217;t really understand this issue and that because I, Mr Smart-Man-Who-Follows-Politics don&#8217;t understand it, I&#8217;m going to assume that you don&#8217;t either.&#8221; Why not just leave the blog piece to someone who is informed or go do some research?</p>
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		<title>By: Kulvinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82101</link>
		<dc:creator>Kulvinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82101</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Burma has very large oil reserves.. which it supplies mostly to India and China.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Apparently their oil reserves are &#039;only&#039; around the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.burmanet.org/news/2006/10/16/xinhua-general-news-service-myanmar-to-raise-onshore-crude-oil-production/#more-5960&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;3.2 billion barrel mark&lt;/a&gt;, they can&#039;t even satisfy their own national demand; to put that in context India - hardly known for its oil industry - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;has 5.8 billion barrels&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Burma has very large oil reserves.. which it supplies mostly to India and China.</p></blockquote>
<p>Apparently their oil reserves are &#8216;only&#8217; around the <a href="http://www.burmanet.org/news/2006/10/16/xinhua-general-news-service-myanmar-to-raise-onshore-crude-oil-production/#more-5960" rel="nofollow">3.2 billion barrel mark</a>, they can&#8217;t even satisfy their own national demand; to put that in context India &#8211; hardly known for its oil industry &#8211; <a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html" rel="nofollow">has 5.8 billion barrels</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: ad</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82099</link>
		<dc:creator>ad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82099</guid>
		<description>Edsa  may act all sanctimonious now but does he recall the Burmese record in 18th century Thailand? Burma first invaded Thailand in 1756, and besieged its capital in 1760, killing thousandsâ€¦

I donâ€™t see why dragging the eighteenth century into this is any more absurd than dragging the nineteenth century into it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edsa  may act all sanctimonious now but does he recall the Burmese record in 18th century Thailand? Burma first invaded Thailand in 1756, and besieged its capital in 1760, killing thousandsâ€¦</p>
<p>I donâ€™t see why dragging the eighteenth century into this is any more absurd than dragging the nineteenth century into it.</p>
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		<title>By: brachyury</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82092</link>
		<dc:creator>brachyury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82092</guid>
		<description>Burma has very large oil reserves.. which it supplies mostly to India and China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burma has very large oil reserves.. which it supplies mostly to India and China.</p>
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		<title>By: Edsa</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82017</link>
		<dc:creator>Edsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1406#comment-82017</guid>
		<description>PM Brown may act all sanctimonious now but does he recall the British record in 19th century Burma? Britian first invaded Burma in 1824 and then again in 1852, demanding Â£1000 compensation for an imagined slight to two British sea captains. When the Burmese demured, the Brits seized the royal yacht and effectively overthrew the monarchy. They shelled Burmese forts killing hundreds and imposed a blockade. Lord Dalhousie, governor of India, raised the compensation demand to Â£100,000 and when this was refused, the British declared war, launched a massacre and annexed the country. 
Cobden in his document &quot;The origins of the Burmese War&quot; condemned the British acts for a &quot;wanton disregard of all justice and decency.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PM Brown may act all sanctimonious now but does he recall the British record in 19th century Burma? Britian first invaded Burma in 1824 and then again in 1852, demanding Â£1000 compensation for an imagined slight to two British sea captains. When the Burmese demured, the Brits seized the royal yacht and effectively overthrew the monarchy. They shelled Burmese forts killing hundreds and imposed a blockade. Lord Dalhousie, governor of India, raised the compensation demand to Â£100,000 and when this was refused, the British declared war, launched a massacre and annexed the country.<br />
Cobden in his document &#8220;The origins of the Burmese War&#8221; condemned the British acts for a &#8220;wanton disregard of all justice and decency.&#8221;</p>
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