I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

Thanks for taking the time out to explain that to me, greatly appreciated. Pickled Politics is also only a reflection of certain sections of the British South Asian community — mainly the more educated and successful elements — although overall I think it’s a pretty good cross-section of the desi population here in terms of regional backgrounds (PP could probably benefit from a few more Gujjus, though ). However, there are other online discussion forums around which would give you a, shall we say, somewhat different taste of what many 2nd-Gen British desis are like. That’s all I’m going to say

SM definitely has its positive points — some of the political discussions are excellent, eg. the recent debate on Kashmir — but to be honest with you I ended up finding the cultural gulf in some quarters to be too much, as it was exhausting having to keep explaining myself at length in order to place my own viewpoints into their proper context. “Desi” in post # 130 higher up this thread made some excellent points about some of the issues with that blog’s recent audience, which I agree with completely. I also found the prejudice endemic in some sections of SM’s commenting population to be quite toxic and it just ended up putting me off completely, as I mentioned previously.

Quietly reading it on occasion from a more detached perspective is fine (and, personally-speaking, psychologically healther). A couple of the remaining long-term commenters are also great people, eg. Razib, Amitabh, and Kush Tandon. Manju is also very badmaash, and relative newbie Rahul is hilarious.

By the way, in case you were finding my CSI references weird, I should mention that both CSI:Miami and New York are shown on one of the UK’s main terrestrial TV channels every Tuesday night. I’m a bit of a fan — hence my jokes from Wednesday onwards last week — and most the places I’ve ironically named in my username above are not exactly glitzy locations in Britain but (with the exception of Basildon) are well-known high-density South Asian areas.

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

“Interesting. So how is it in “real life”, and how does the average non-SM Indian American person feel about such things (assuming that it’s possible to make such a generalisation)?”

I didn’t mean so much that “real life” is different from what is spouted on SM, but that there are various realities in diverse contexts. For example, I’ve lived and worked in locations where the majority was White, then East Asian, and then Latino. In each, the dynamics of race were different for me. They have not been the same experiences across the board.

Also, I’m assuming that people who have the time to read and write on SM are not the IA’s who are working 14-16 hours, and back breaking labor at that. Judging from their comments, many seem to be degree holders and can afford the time to read and write at the length some do on SM (I could be totally wrong, though).

And, we are very spread out, even if there are certain locations where there are concentrations of IA (ie Houston, SF, Chicago). I think I remember reading some stat that most (not all) IA live in suburbs which are usually overwhelmingly white; the racial experiences there are different from living in, say, a predominantly black neighborhood, where you are a person of “color” as well but not black.

It gets a wee bit more complicated when you remember that IA are often seen as the “model minority” in the US. And living with affluent whites may be a double edged sword: one the one hand, you’re a “model minority” (ie the myth that we’re all smart, educated, brainy, and “hard workers” in comparison to the other minorities), but still you are made out to be different (ie you ain’t white and you’re not a “real’ American, bro, no matter how much money you make).

Nice to read your comments too — I like your new blog as well. Some humorous, entertainingly-written but thought-provoking articles there.

I agree with everything you just said about SM — some other US-based Indians have told me exactly the same thing offline.

Race is definitely an issue in the US, I’m not denying that. Skin color, as well as features have much to do with it. But not entirely like how it is portrayed on SM

Interesting. So how is it in “real life”, and how does the average non-SM Indian American person feel about such things (assuming that it’s possible to make such a generalisation) ?

Who’s my sister?

I was referring to ANNA from SM, who posted comment #92. She’s one of the “Mutineers” in charge of that blog.

PS: Do you like Noor Jehan and Shamshad Begum? Because I do.

I’m not very familiar with their work although of course I’m aware of how famous they are. However, according to some commenters on YouTube, apparently the girl whose qawwali I linked to in the Open Thread sounds a bit like Noor Jehan.

“The average white Brit isn’t particularly religious at all”

I didn’t think that at all; what I do think is that religion is very much discussed on PP (and here it’s difficult to separate PP from the current happenings in the UK itself; like I think it would be absurd to take SM comprehensively reflective of the US, Indian American, and South Asian American communities.)

“it’s very, very different to the US”

It depends where you are; here in the Bay Area (CA), white folks are not so religious. However, in some places like the South (and some parts out in the Midwest), Guns and God rule.

“It’s obvious that in some quarters this issue is fairly inflammatory and extremely sensitive (with people’s judgement being adversely affected), as indicated by what sometimes occurs on SM”

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Before you think SM is indicative of the Indian American community, think about the demographics of who has time to post numerous, long, long comments? It’s either if you’re a student or work at a job that allows you to do such. I also think that SM- like any blog- attracts like minded readers. But that doesn’t reflect all of the 2 million strong IA community.

Race is definitely an issue in the US, I’m not denying that. Skin color, as well as features have much to do with it. But not entirely like how it is portrayed on SM (or maybe not, I don’t read it that often).

“the inappropriate reaction of your American sister higher up this thread.”

Who’s my sister?

PS: Do you like Noor Jehan and Shamshad Begum? Because I do.

Nice to see you back here.

Ok, but PP is seriously obsessed with religion…..But maybe religion is a big, big deal in the UK.

The average white Brit isn’t particularly religious at all — it’s very, very different to the US; however, the current obsession with Islam and Muslims here is due to the events of the last few years post-9/11 and 7/7. South Asians are the biggest non-white ethnic group in the UK, and since a lot of them are Muslims (the percentage within the desi population is considerably higher than it is for their counterparts in the US), they, and issues relating to them, have a much higher profile in Britain.

PP’s own apparent preoccupation is just a sign of the times, at least with regards to the desi community on this side of the Atlantic.

For us in the US, people are very skin color conscious,

It’s obvious that in some quarters this issue is fairly inflammatory and extremely sensitive (with people’s judgement being adversely affected), as indicated by what sometimes occurs on SM and also by the inappropriate reaction of your American sister higher up this thread. By the way, still no apology forthcoming from her, I see. Disappointing.

“Clearly, the Punjabi dominated British Asian nation does not get as worked up about the issue as the South Indian dominated American-Indian nation.”

Hon, where are you getting this stat that South Indians dominate the Indian American community? True, they make up a large chunk of the population given the current labor market of software engineers, but I don’t think this is correct (but I’m totally willing to concede if this is a fact…census stats, anyone?)

-”And unlike the race-obsessed crowd in Sepia Mutiny,”

“Clearly. They’re freaking demented about all this over there.”

Ok, but PP is seriously obsessed with religion. I haven’t come here in ages due to my job, but the rare times I click over, there’s always at least one post that shows up on the home page that talks about Muslims, or religion centered discourses. But maybe religion is a big, big deal in the UK. For us in the US, people are very skin color conscious, and you immediately get tagged as either from “here” or not (ie I still get asked how long I’ve been living in America though I was born and raised here and having the thickest Cali accent.)

Don’t get me wrong, some actresses are like looking at a nude in an art gallery – you appreciate its beauty, but you don’t get excited about it.

With all due respect to Junior B, Aishwarya has the same effect on me. In terms of beauty she’s as striking as Angelina, but she doesn’t provoke dark stirrings in me to want to do some “horizontal bhangra” with her. Ms Jolie*, however, is an entirely different matter…..

To me the most attractive actress is Penelope Cruz. There, I said it.

Interesting choice. I think she looks pretty stunning in those TV commercials for makeup she appears in (Max Factor ? Maybelline ? Can’t remember).

Along with Angelina, Monica Bellucci is another actress who scores 10/10 on Jai’s Sohnimeter.

By the way, on a tangential although not entirely unrelated note, I’ve posted a link on Clairwil’s Open Thread which you may like, since you seem to be a fan of classical-type music like me. Assuming that you like qawaalis, of course. And the girl is stunning too, although since I’m 34 (and she’s 18) she’s far too young for me to consider doing any type of bhangra with her (either horizontal or vertical) without feeling completely guilt-stricken at the notion. Anyway — pretty girl, superb singer, heartwarming music, so check it out if you’re into that sort of thing.

Ms Jolie*,

Oh alright, “Mrs Jolie-Pitt”. Don’t remind me…..

“I’m still shocked by your unprovoked slanderous onslaught against Angelina. How VERY dare you.

I guess you could have done worse than Angelina, Jai. In general, Hollywood and Bollywood actresses don’t do much for me. Don’t get me wrong, some actresses are like looking at a nude in an art gallery – you appreciate its beauty, but you don’t get excited about it.

To me the most attractive actress is Penelope Cruz. There, I said it.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_42879.htm

Its not on Youtube from where I’ve looked.

This, you may recall, is the one where a woman knowingly explains to the audience: “Why would *anyone* want a black daughter-in-law?”

Also reports of it here:
http://cities.expressindia.com/local-news/fullstory.php?newsid=135916

and I admit I have enough hang ups about myself to make them worse by staring at how perfect model’s eyebrows are…make mine look like stalins

“Eyebrow threading” for the ladies is apparently very good.

Jai – you moved from wembley to leicester in 3 minutes…??!

Yeah, I drive a Humvee, remember. Compliments my sunglasses.

a lot of the ones you mentioned have quite European features.

Not all Asians look like that in Ol’ Blighty but it’s not necessarily that uncommon here, as we all know. Those actors & actresses would probably be less representative of the “average” Asian if we were referring to the average person back in India or, to some extent, the average Indian in the US.

***********

Ravi,

I am still getting over the image of Sanjeev Bhaskar and his jokes about camels in one of his documentaries in India. He is just awful.

The book accompanying the series was actually much better — it was a lot more serious and poignant, although obviously interspersed with plenty of humorous musings. Sanjeev’s a surprisingly good writer, and his style of writing reminds me of our very own Dr Rohin.

Now behave, Jai.

I’m still shocked by your unprovoked slanderous onslaught against Angelina. How VERY dare you.

Kismet.”Nothing like a bit of electrolysis to make you a better human being”…you sound just like my aunty, except she’d go further and talk about leepo…

The wife was watching Zee Music last night about the launch of Indian Vogue. Basically all the luxury brands that advertise in Vogue are now in India and selling like wild fire to the rich and famous, so they’ve launched an exclusivelly Indian edition of Vogue.