I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

A countrys ability to defend its borders, its soverienty and the dignity of its people grows with time, Iran is better than a lot of places, we can assume its not perfect.

Despite the drip feed being served to us all. Vain human rights bitching on the outside serves one purpose and one purpose only, that of manufacturing consent.

TFI

Did anyone read that Monocle article about the first flight from tehran to caracus?

Persian ladies like to hang out on sunny Venezualan beaches in bikinis — flights will be packed out.

Let’s hope the so-called ‘anti-imperialist’ hordes of the UK don’t serve as useful idiots for the Iranian regime to continue oppressing its own people under the name of religion.

And by the way, this member of the ‘Asiatic horde’ has never believed Iran deserves a ‘good murdering’. Keep living in cuckoo-land to support your own prejudices if you want to. Doesn’t bother me.

The most important form of wisdom a government can show is by recognising how small is the wisdom with which the world is governed and accepting that they will be got rid of eventually when they fail as they inevitably will. A government that believes they have an absolute source of wisdom to guide them won’t even have the negative virtue of knowing they will fail. Harold Macmillan was asked what most influenced a government’s policy. “Events, dear boy, events.” he said in surprise. All the “wisdom” supposedly found in the quran will do no good against what actually and unexpectedly happens.

I hope that the Asiatic hordes of the UK dont serve as useful idiots to perpetuate the lie that Iran deserves a good murdering.

Did anyone read that Monocle article about the first flight from tehran to caracus? Shame on so called sissy sunni salafi secular countries in the region for deserting iran.

There are over a 100 countries that are considered democractic. Why not look at Switzerland, Scandinavia, Germany, France etc? Even India has a vibrant democracy in that there are hundreds of parties that try to represent every sub-section of the population. The existence of poverty is NOT a failure of democracy. It is a failure of the economy. The two are different.

any system is reliant on good people to run it.

There can never be a perfect system, and anyone who tries to attempt one is stupid. All we can is create a system with checks and balances so that if stupid people get in, they’re chucked out.

Early Muslim rule in Spain is considered by some historians to be good.

I’m sorry, how long ago was that? Even then, you’re looking at it through rose tinted glasses and through a different era. Just because many Muslims consider it to be a nice era doesn’t mean it was a great theocracy. It was a monarchy. Big difference.

Let me put it this way. A theocracy relies on people generally having the same interpretation of a particular religious belief, and then imposing that across the population. In modern societies imposing something is near impossible unless you do it through coercion. The beauty of a democracy is that it allows people who they want to live with only the proviso that the state provides Public Goods (defence, roads, education etc).

The US, by the way, is trying to provide universal healthcare to its citizens. But I’m trying to get through your head that the US medicare system is not a failure of democracy (since its a very flexible system) but about how Americans choose to structure their healthcare system.

In case you haven’t noticed, we have a diff healthcare system but still a similar democratic structure. Geddit? Healthcare system has jack all to do with ‘democracy’. Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word democracy first. That might help.

Technically there is theocratic rule in the Vatican now which is its own state

It’s a small city state and people there still have to adhere to Italian laws. You don’t have any examples. You have Iran, which is a repressive theocracy… and that’s what you’ll get if you have any theocracy.

Technically there is theocratic rule in the Vatican now which is its own state which some Catholics would consider better than Italy’s own democratic rule!! Joke

Even if there is no good theocratic rule that depends on the people running the system who themselves maybe corrupt.

There are few examples of good democratic rule.

Also give some examples of good Democratic rule?

Then compare that to the large numbers of bad democratic rule. Is Iraq now a good example of democratic rule? Why is Iraq unable to decide its own destiny and for example not able to proescute criminal activity by US Nationals?

Is the USA considered good democracy? India? UK?

You said:

“Sunny – any system is reliant on good people to run it. You keep picking the worst possible examples of theocratic rule to compare with democracy. I am simply highlighting that there are also bad examples of democracy.”

WTF? Right back at you. Could you give one example of ‘good’ theocratic rule? I am simply pointing out that there has never, ever, been a good example of theocratic rule. Next question?

Any system has to improve the quality of people’s lives, provide justice, welfare and healthcare as well as basic necessaties. Also it needs to provide equality, education etc.

You keep going back to foreign policy but even if we don’t look at foreign policy the some systems of democracy have simly failed people.

In the USA which is exporting democracy around the world, it itself has a fairly archaic system of voting. It is suspectable to lobbies. It doesn’t provide healthcare for it’s citizens.

In India the world’s biggest democracy is probably being run where hundreds of millions of people don’t even know who they are voting for as they are ill-educated. in over 50 years democracy has not changed these peoples lives or existence.

It isn’t just about foreign policy.

My opinion and I appreciate I am in the minority here is that any system has to be for the betterment of the people and to provide justice for all. Be that in the USA, UK, India, Israel, the Middle Eats whereever.

As regards foreign policy it again has to be just and for the betterment of people.

Quite frankly Pakistan isn’t ready for democracy and each time it has been tried it has failed. So your assertion that it is the least worst system doesn’t hold true.

The least worst system depends on the circumstances it may be democracy, dictatorship, theocracy etc. but as long as it is just and for the betterment of the people.

BTW I am not from Saudi Arabia.

I would also remind you that democracy also brought to power Hitler, Mussolini (I think), Bush, Blair etc.

Democracy has also caused much war across the world as nations compete for influence and power all in the name of putting in democracy.

Sunny if you truely believe that democracy is the best system then go to Iraq, Palestine, Chechnya, Africa etc. and tell all those who have been killed by democratic countries that democracy is the best system.

I will pay for your flight ticket to Iraq, so please go and tell the mothers whose children have been killed in the name of establishing democracy that it was worth it.

Again I say to you that a system is only as good as the people who run it. Doesn’t matter what the system is as long as it provides the needs and welfare of the people.

I’m assuming that since you’re not posting this from Saudi Arabia or something, what you actually mean is white people. Right?
Anyway, I thought democracy wasn’t just a ‘western creation’?

So now you’re confusing me Natty. Because you’re in the west and criticising ‘the west’ (whatever that means). On top of that you’ve now started using the word ‘west’ (instead of ‘democracy’) when you mean ‘US foreign policy’.

This is really a stupid debate. Yes its a superior attitude but firstly a democracy IS the least worst system… because you haven’t told us a better solution. You want to tinker around with what kind of democracy you want? Fine, we all do.

it’d cure them of any delusions about the virtues of isilamic government eventually, for one thing.

I’m actually in agreement with Roger.

People who want a pure religious government should be given one just to show how stupid they are. Theocratic governments never work and if you want to use the example of the Ottoman empire, as HuT constantly do, then please read up on its bloody history, never mind the fact the world has vastly changed since.

I’m as anti-imperialist as anyone. But if the alternative to democracy is a Hinduism inspired kingdom in India, a Khalistan in Punjab and a Caliphate in the Middle East, then those pining for those religious empires deserve all the derision they get.

There is an inherently superior attitude here as if only the West knows about the virtues of wise government and no-one else does.

It stinks of a colonial attitude of superiority.

Yet the West itself has had few wise governments and myths about seperation of church and state continue. Governments aim in the West is not necessarily to be wise but is to survive in power.

Throughout the West there have been very few wise governments that people truely look upon fondly so it says a lot for the delusions you have about government here. Would you consider Bush’s term wise government or even Blairs? Would you consider for example the term of Richard Nixon wise? What about Howard in Australia?

It is hard to even think of a wise government so telling Muslims that your Government is wise just looks silly when they look across at the people being elected.

Italy has rarely had a wise government in decades!

This superior attitude of a colonial Europe needs to stop and blaming immigrants for everything and telling them you are much wiser and better and superior isn’t going to help.

wow

The Policeman of the World whom TFI loves and holds up as a beacon and the true reality of immunity no mater what.

The world is imperfect because people don’t necessarily behave how you want them to. One of these days you guys might actually realise this instead of dreaming about silly utopias.

Yes Sunny also don’t go easy on peoples endorsement of lying and going to war, killing innocent people and calling them terrorists, lobbies who buy politicians favours, 3 and out life sentences, business over healthcare and welfare, slavery all under the correct democratic context.

Democracy TFI is as good as the people who run it and frankly there are not many of them across the world.

Democratonocracy does not solve all problems. I’ve seen it empower the greatest scumbas of a society, divide people and families, impoverish nations and confuse people through infantilasation and titilation. As a technique for temporary leadership change it has merits, though is not sacred.

the rest is shameless and uncreative ideological marketting.