Wusses from Muslims Against Crusades back out of protest


by Sunny
10th November, 2011 at 5:03 pm    

So… Muslims Against Crusades have been banned as of midnight. For people not aware of the context, this isn’t new. Anjem Choudhary’s two previous reincarnations of the same sect – Al-Muhajiroun and Islam4UK – were also banned in the past.

As Jeromy Taylor points out:

RE Muslims Against Crusades. Since 2001, 31 people have been charged with proscription offences. 15 have been convicted.

The ban isn’t surprising. What is surprising is that they decided to cancel their protest tomorrow (by richards). After all, Anjem Choudhary and his motley crew are used to just turning up under a different name.

But it is also the case that they hate their publicity stunts being neutralised. The last time British Muslims for Secular Democracy openly called for a counter-protest, Anjem Choudhary and his lot decided not to turn up at the last minute. This time too, they’ve decided to call it off.

If you’re reading guys – don’t worry we’ll be there every time you try and hold one of your stunts.


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  1. sunny hundal

    Blogged: : Wusses from Muslims Against Crusades back out of protest http://t.co/ZCnR0Ked


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  3. Kal Singh Dhindsa

    Blogged: : Wusses from Muslims Against Crusades back out of protest http://t.co/ZCnR0Ked




  1. douglas clark — on 10th November, 2011 at 6:31 pm  

    Well done Sunny!

  2. douglas clark — on 10th November, 2011 at 6:40 pm  

    I am not at all clear why we cannot post on this thread:

    Norwegian police formally investigating EDL financier for possible terrorism links.

    Why is that? Jai ought to know that many people on here would support him. Why are comments restricted?

    It is not good enough Jai. Stopping comments is just not right.

  3. KB Player — on 10th November, 2011 at 7:14 pm  

    I appreciate you and your mates doing counter demos against Chowderhead, but it seems an awful waste of your time, and giving the little creep more attention than he deserves. I’d let him and his mini-bus full demonstrate in the next street. There’s a case for not having solemn national occasions disrupted by heckling etc, but I don’t think there’s a case for no demo at all.

    As for May, this seemed highly opportunistic.

  4. Kismet Hardy — on 10th November, 2011 at 8:14 pm  

    wusses? ooh, prod the angry little dogs. I likey

  5. Kismet Hardy — on 10th November, 2011 at 8:32 pm  

    This isn’t funny though…

    The ban, which has been evoked under the Terrorism Act 2000, also makes it a criminal offence to “arrange a meeting in support of a proscribed organisation, or to wear clothing, or to carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of the proscribed organisation”..

    To wear clothing?!

    Fucking authoritarian shite

  6. J to the T — on 10th November, 2011 at 11:02 pm  

    Kismet Hardy:

    Well I thought it less then likely to happen, but I am actually in full agreement with you.

    As much as I detest Anjem Choudary and his mob of idiots, and as much as I detest their idea of protest, I can see no genuine reasons as to how their group can be proscribed under terror laws, nor can I see any justification for the redefinition of terrorism in the Terrorism Act 2000. Even less for all of the deliberately vague sections that could outlaw just about anything at will.

    You cannot protect freedom and democracy by restricting freedom and democracy.

    As extremely distasteful as the protest itself they plan is, it breaks no laws in itself.

    And I say this as a former serviceman who would almost certainly be behind bars if I were to be around anything like their former antics.

    I can see no reason why they cannot be dealt with in the same way that the EDL have been dealt with in the past: Let them protest, but in a location far away from any persons or groups that their protest is likely to inflame.

    If they break the law there, then deal with it there.

  7. Don — on 10th November, 2011 at 11:05 pm  

    Kismet,

    I agree that is disturbing.

    You’re kinda flexible on authoritariansm, though.

  8. Refresh — on 11th November, 2011 at 2:17 am  

    Jai, it would have been nice to have been able to comment on that other thread.

    Another line you may wish to consider in your admirable series on the BNP and the EDL is the economic argument. It seems Europe is looking to China and the ‘muslim world’ (AKA Mid-East) for the biggest voluntary bailout in history.

    I also seem to recall Gordon Brown, in his ‘Make Poverty History’ days, actually went to the middle east to raise the money (£800m I think) for developing world debt relief.

  9. Sunny — on 11th November, 2011 at 3:04 am  

    and giving the little creep more attention than he deserves.

    Think its time to accept that this strategy (“let’s deny them any oxygen of publicity!”) has failed.

  10. Kismet Hardy — on 11th November, 2011 at 11:42 am  

    “You’re kinda flexible on authoritariansm, though”

    Moi? Never! I daresay I’ve never said anyone should be forced to do or think as someone else says ever. I’ll humbly hand you over my daily ration of monkey nuts if you can prove me wrong sir

  11. damon — on 11th November, 2011 at 11:50 am  

    Refresh

    it would have been nice to have been able to comment on that other thread

    So it’s not just me then. Presumably the previous comments haven’t been up to standard.
    I also disagree with your second line. And that I can’t even say why without getting deleted is a good example of why. Yaxley-Lennon is a nobody who shouldn’t be taking up any more of a person’s time and thoughts than should Choudary. These people are idiots and of little real consequence. Although they are able to cause quite a bit of mischief because people rise to their provocations.

  12. Don — on 11th November, 2011 at 9:41 pm  

    Oh, I can’t remember the details. Details are for the little people. It was something, I vaguely recall expressing mild astonishment. Does that get me the nuts?

  13. Shamit — on 11th November, 2011 at 11:38 pm  

    I too find the ban dangerous for our democracy and I despise Anwar Chaudhary and his loony 5 followers.

    But the government has no business banning the demo – arguments could be made about them encouraging terrorism but then we as a democracy are following the path set out by loonies who try to kill a cartoonist for drawing a picture – or petrol bomb a newspaper – or want to kill Rushdie for writing a book.

    ***************************
    And btw, if China and other countries put in money in the EFSF in its present condition they would be putting good money after bad.

    Unless the ECB steps in and the sovereign bonds are guaranteed by them – this crisis is not going to go away – and France is next. Bond prices are creeping out there too.

    And China despite being a one party dictatorship has to contend with a growing nationalism among its citizens.

    http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/44433

    In fact what the media is slowly realising that Ed Balls has been the most vocal as well as effective spokesperson for UK government policy about ECB intervention for the past few months.

    But here again the Guardian elite have got it wrong. UK is right and the Franco-German approach is wrong. Just like UK is right on the Tobin tax and not Merkozy.

  14. KB Player — on 11th November, 2011 at 11:49 pm  

    Think its time to accept that this strategy (“let’s deny them any oxygen of publicity!”) has failed.

    It’s never been tried. The little creep gets yards of print and his gob is flapping for the BBC as well. If the Daily Telegraph et al had ignored him he would have gone away. The banning of his organisation was third item on the national news. The creep should get a job with Max Clifford – he’s a genius self-publicist and has some kind of bait which makes the newspapers go rabid.

    @Kismet@5 – Quite right. Open organisations like Choudary and his many names aren’t the problem. Does anyone expect the little shit to let off a bomb? He attracts far more publicity than actual living breathing followers.

  15. Sunny — on 12th November, 2011 at 3:59 am  

    It’s never been tried. The little creep gets yards of print and his gob is flapping for the BBC as well.

    That’s my point though. What are you going to do – force the national media into not covering them? Petition the Daily Mail to not put them on the front page?

  16. KB Player — on 12th November, 2011 at 9:16 am  

    Sunny – what I am going to do is f/a except to whinge here, so credit to you & the rest for doing something.

    I can see where you’re coming from – if the Daily Mail reports Chowderchops was acting like an arse, at least there was another gang acting in opposition – but it does tick me off that things work in that way i.e. by media choice of what’s important and what isn’t. Chowderchops isn’t important in any way except for getting media attention. I hate the thought of activists, who could be working for better causes, taking time and energy to put up a show for the Daily Mail.

  17. damon — on 12th November, 2011 at 12:10 pm  

    ”Petition the Daily Mail to not put them on the front page?”

    Protesting outside the Daily Mail and Express wouldn’t be a bad idea.

    KB Player: ”Chowderchops isn’t important in any way except for getting media attention.”

    What about that ”evil genius” Stephen Yaxley-Lennon?
    Some people think he’s worth a great deal of scrutiny.

  18. Don — on 12th November, 2011 at 4:27 pm  

    What’s your opinion on the police lifting 170+ EDL supporters? They hadn’t actually done anything. Preventative policing or a breach of civil liberties?
    We’ll never know how hard the intelligence was that they were working up to a ruck with the St. Paul’s crew, I’m not happy about this. Or banning MAC.

    If we let democratic principles slide when it’s just assholes we despise who are the target then do we actually have principles?

    Off topic, but hasn’t the weather been lovely for the time of year? Just got back from cycling to the Boatside at Warden for lunch in the garden. The gravelax salad is very good, if you’re ever in the area.

  19. J to the T — on 12th November, 2011 at 5:21 pm  

    The situation Don refers to with the EDL is as subversive to freedom and democracy as the trumped up terror proscription is for the MAC.

    ” Police said they had acted to prevent a “breach of the peace” after intelligence suggested that members were likely to get involved in violence in the capital.”

    Prevent? Likely?

    How easy it is to use these words to prevent anything you are likely to not want whether it may be have been criminal or not.

    ‘Preventative Custody’: The mainstay of the Gestapo.

    I think the next line from the same article explains why they did this:

    “The incident comes just one day after Muslims Against Crusades, a group that last year burnt poppies during the silence, was banned by the Home Secretary Theresa May.”

    I think this is most likely ‘sop policing’ at its worst. MAC the day before, so EDL the day after.

    And speaking of MAC:

    “The home of its leader Anjem Choudary, as well as two other addresses, were raided by police in a six-and-a-half-hour operation on Wednesday night under the Terrorism Act 2000. Officers reportedly took literature away with them, but no arrests were made.”

    So nothing. Just some more ‘prevention’ and ‘likelihood.’

    All a couple of days after the police threatened to baton round student protesters, after running away from out of control rioters instead of doing just that.

    The police and the HO are now dangerously amateurish and come over brazen liars, authoritarian state agents, cowards and enemies of freedom, and as anyone who has been to any country where tensions spill over can testify to (ask Damon) the police can only police with consent.

    That consent seeps always daily.

    Article

  20. Don — on 12th November, 2011 at 7:24 pm  

    I think this is most likely ‘sop policing’ at its worst. MAC the day before, so EDL the day after.

    I have to agree with that. And of course May needs distractions from the immigration control debacle.

  21. damon — on 12th November, 2011 at 11:16 pm  

    The Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance from the Albert Hall is on the TV.

    It’s like a commemoration of permanent warfare- with X Factor showbiz entertainment thrown in.

    If you’re sitting at home watching this after losing a limb in our recent wars, you might wonder if it was worth it. A pat on the head from David Cameron and Prince Charles – great, and then what?

    It’s great TV though.

  22. Shamit — on 12th November, 2011 at 11:52 pm  

    Damon –

    Piss off.

  23. Sunny — on 13th November, 2011 at 1:36 am  

    I hate the thought of activists, who could be working for better causes, taking time and energy to put up a show for the Daily Mail.

    agreed, but not much we can do about it now…!

    Don – That is slightly debatable. I’d be alarmed if EDL people were randomly arrested in advance – but there was intelligence to suggest they would start a ruckus there (including threats of firearms) and they have a history here…

  24. douglas clark — on 13th November, 2011 at 1:54 am  

    On balance, what BMSD and Co. did was necessary. If it stops some self pubilising idiots, then that is all to the good. It makes it obvious how isolated they are.

    I would encourage the likes of the EDL and MAC to get into bed with the Beano. They are both caricatures of a reasonable person. Which the Beano is sort of good at.

    http://www.beano.com/

  25. J to the T — on 13th November, 2011 at 1:15 pm  

    Sunny: This was an outrageous and politically motivated attack on civil liberties, regardless of whether you agree with the ideals of the people involved.

    Natural justice has always had the basic provision that in order for there to be detention, an offence must have been committed and one that it is reasonable to believe can be proved in a court of law.

    This demonstrably did not happen here.

    “but there was intelligence”

    So you should have no problem sharing this intelligence with us, as you say there was some, and not just alleged to be some by a police force that routinely lies?

    Surely you are not just taking the word of the police that they were actually entitled to arrest more then 170 people who had not actually committed any crimes at all, using the favourite secret police device of ‘preventative custody.’

    ” they would start a ruckus there”

    Actually, all the police have said is that they believed the EDL intended to ‘attack’ the St Paul’s camp.

    Now it is only legal (but still warped) to arrest for ‘preventative’ breach of the peace if that breach is ‘imminent’ and these people were still in a pub in Parliament Street, over 2 miles away from St Paul’s.

    So clearly no offence had been committed at the time of arrest nor was it even possible that the purported (future) ‘offence’ was ‘imminent.’

    Once again, the British police arrested over 170 people who had committed no crime and did so beyond the remit of even draconian laws.

    “including threats of firearms”

    Not so: There had been one twitter posted threat by one person, who wasn’t even in the pub that over 170 people were arrested despite committing no crime.

    And the police who arrested those 172 people were unarmed, so clearly they had no firearms concerns at all.

    “and they have a history here”

    And so do the UAF. And certain football clubs supporters. And groups of young people drinking. And Irish weddings. And just about any protest of any size …

    Lets arrest them all now, just in case they ever commit a crime in the future.

  26. damon — on 13th November, 2011 at 7:28 pm  

    Shamit, I watched the event in London this morning, and while it is moving in many ways, and I perticularly love the music … such as Elgar’s ‘Nimrod’, there’s something not right with it all. It’s too ”official” and patronised by the rulling elite and the military. We are wasting our time, and the lives of our people – and Afghans – fighting in Afghanistan, when the real enemy is obviously Pakistan.
    We should just let Pakistan occupy the Pashtun part of Afghanistan. They are determined to control it anyway.

    Meanwhile, Pervez Musharraf who was behind supporting the Taliban (apparently) is living in exile in London.

    Something’s not right. David Dimbleby’s commentary on BBC1 this morning was like dropping prozac or valium in the national water supply.

  27. damon — on 13th November, 2011 at 7:53 pm  

    As for the arrests of the EDL, I don’t know how anyone who is concerned about uncharged prisoners in Belmarsh can just shrug at this mass arrest.

    Intelligence? What intelligence? A couple of tweets or Facebook messages that the police saw?
    The police are obviously in a ”no nonsense” mode with public demonstrations. And while I wouldn’t be shouting about ”The Feds” and police brutality in a ‘Jody McIntyre-like way’, the way they policed that student demo on thursday was way over the top, and that’s before the question of who brought up the possible use of rubber bullets is answered.

    Thanks to the hysterical response to the EDL (which PP has played it’s own small part in) the police now feel they have to have this zero tolerence position to any EDL-like expression. And what’s used on the EDL one day is used on anyone else the next.

    It is very (very) unlikely that the ”intelligence” had any truth in it at all. What was intolerable to the police was the mere presence of a hundred plus people who have been demonised so much that they have to be dispersed every time they turn up somewhere.

    Fair enough in one way. Like the MAC people, they have nothing positive to offer, but let’s not pretend that the police are not now making political decisions to who can and can’t show their faces in public without being policed off the streets.

  28. Don — on 13th November, 2011 at 9:33 pm  

    @27 damon.

    I agree.

  29. Don — on 13th November, 2011 at 9:39 pm  

    @26

    What? . We are wasting our time, and the lives of our people – and Afghans – fighting in Afghanistan, when the real enemy is obviously Pakistan.
    We should just let Pakistan occupy the Pashtun part of Afghanistan. They are determined to control it anyway.

    Where the hell did that come from?

  30. damon — on 14th November, 2011 at 10:54 am  

    @ Don: ”Where the hell did that come from?”

    It’s what they were saying on that recent two-part documentary ”Secret Pakistan” recently.

    ”Filmed largely in Pakistan and Afghanistan, this two-part documentary series explores how a supposed ally stands accused by top CIA officers and Western diplomats of causing the deaths of thousands of coalition soldiers in Afghanistan.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016ltpv

    You agree with me in post 27 Don?
    That doesn’t fit so well with the latest thread on the EDL arrests.
    I can’t post on that one, maybe you can.

  31. AbuF — on 14th November, 2011 at 11:30 am  

    Meanwhile, Pervez Musharraf who was behind supporting the Taliban (apparently) is living in exile in London.

    Meanwhile, the Egyptian ex-military attache to Pakistan, who was behind the funneling of Arab jihadi to Pakistan and Afghanistan at the height of the Soviet-Afghan War is presently the leader of the military junta in Egypt. That man being Field Marshal Tantawi.

    Ain’t life grand.

  32. Don — on 14th November, 2011 at 1:29 pm  

    @30,

    No, I didn’t mean where did the information come from, I meant why is it relevant to the thread?

    It’s closed thread, it’s not just you.

  33. Kismet Hardy — on 14th November, 2011 at 1:40 pm  

    I don’t know what’s going on with this site. On one hand, it’s possibly one of the most consistent non-far right site to keep us informed (and thus promoting) the antics of the EDL, while at the same time having a slightly fascist ‘read as I say, and shut up’edge to it that completely negates the blog feel of it. In between we get the odd article about India and forced marriages. What happened to the political debate, or is this a polite way to divert traffic to liberal conspiracy? I don’t get it. All I know is the EDL are OUT THERE, man, and we should like FREAK OUT that they are. Or something. I don’t know.

  34. Katy Newton — on 14th November, 2011 at 3:05 pm  

    @33 yes yes yes. I still read this site quite frequently but I’ve lost the urge to comment. It feels a bit like a noticeboard (stirling efforts of Jai, Don and Shamit notwithstanding).

  35. damon — on 14th November, 2011 at 4:57 pm  

    Don

    No, I didn’t mean where did the information come from, I meant why is it relevant to the thread?

    OK, I was veering off topic a bit, but this was originally about MAC wanting to protest the wars fought by our army overseas. I don’t like the way they do that but criticizing the whole poppy culture led by the govenment, military, royals, church and media is something that is legitimate IMO.

    Clearly the MAC people have a divisive and childish agenda, but after watching the Cenetaph service on TV yesterday, I needed to listen to a bit of this anti war protest song from Woodstock in 1969 as a panacea.

    He knew how to get the message across to the people there.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuUBCF3KKxc&feature=related

  36. Don — on 14th November, 2011 at 9:18 pm  

    Woah, you’re pulling Country Joe on me? I was at Woodstock (The Movie). Highlight of my school trip to London.

  37. Vito — on 14th November, 2011 at 9:28 pm  

    I think its pretty obvious that Jai Jai Gabor has stopped comments on his threads ‘cos he cant handle disagreement, innit, and most of his claims are easily dissembled, aint’it. Such as his latest batch. Ye haa.

    Peace.

  38. Sunny — on 14th November, 2011 at 10:05 pm  

    Kismet – I don’t get your point?

    All I know is the EDL are OUT THERE, man, and we should like FREAK OUT that they are. Or something. I don’t know.

    What would you have done about this? I don’t get it?

  39. Refresh — on 14th November, 2011 at 10:30 pm  

    Sunny,

    I think Kismet is telling you that PP is becoming untended. And LC is mundane.

  40. Refresh — on 14th November, 2011 at 10:37 pm  

    Don,

    We had Woodstock delivered to our school. Definitely a highlight.

    The other was the excitement of booking The Sex Pistols. I sometimes wonder what the reaction of the Head would have been, had they accepted the invitation.

  41. damon — on 15th November, 2011 at 12:09 pm  

    School trips and deliveries?? That’s far too surreal for me.
    As for the closed threads … well is it any loss that they are? I’m banned off commentating on them anyway, but I think they are of very low quality.
    The headline on the latest one is from some bizzare posting on the internet that could have been written by anybody.
    The police in New York City have just attacked the Occupy Wall Street camp overnight and they could easily come up with the excuse that they had seen something on Facebook that people were planning to attack the police with guns, to justify clearing the camp with riot police.

    Reading that closed thread, I was reminded of the sketch they used to do on the ”Alas Smith and Jones” comdey show. Where they sat facing each other telling each other improbable stories, and then saying that a bloke down the pub had told them it … ”so it must be true”.
    Here we have roumors on the internet and Facebook about attacking Occupy and the police with guns – which hardly any of those arrested will have had any inclination of getting involved in or known about I’m sure.
    The guns thing is pure fantasy, and even if it was true it would be the work of a lone nut case or conspiracy of no more than two or three.
    Discuss? No, no discussion.

  42. Kismet Hardy — on 15th November, 2011 at 2:56 pm  

    Sunny,

    I’d like to comment is all

    This ‘closed thread’ business feels kinda cowardly to me. I’m all for bullies/trouble makers/twats having their say so we can unite in knocking them down, or at the very least, excercise our right to be a bit of a twat back

  43. Wibble — on 16th November, 2011 at 10:44 am  

    What’s happened to Rumbold?

    Is this the slow winding down of PickledPolitics?

  44. Shamit — on 16th November, 2011 at 6:37 pm  

    open letter to the PP Community

    Folks

    Rumbold is busy with a new job and he has little time if any at all right now. Sunny is massively busy with his own project and Lib Con and other things he has to do – so if we want to keep this community alive I think we have to take it upon ourselves to write for it.

    I too am very busy but I am happy to write one article every two weeks and so if we have all of us doing the same we can get our vibrant community back.

    This is too good a platform to let it die and so what do you guys think?

  45. damon — on 17th November, 2011 at 2:13 pm  

    Well do it then Shamit if you can.
    The present mods seem to have lost interest.
    I can understand why maybe. A lot of the good former commentators don’t bother either.
    To my mind, some of the issues raised here are just too contentious and there is no constructive dialogue across ”ideological lines”.

    For example, just look at this story on Spiked from last week …. which I thought was very good, and then compare it to the Sh** that’s hit the fan over Sepp Blatter’s comments on racism on the football field.
    http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/11373/

    On radio five, people were calling for his head and it was a very heated denunciation of Blatter, with no room for any of the points the guy in the linked article was raising.

    And there’s also no way that we could discuss that on Pickled Politics, because it would just become a row quite quickly. I have tried to bring some of that kind of nuance into debates here, but it goes down very (very) badly quite often.

  46. damon — on 19th November, 2011 at 1:29 pm  

    Wow, Douglas Clark – on the newly closed thread.
    Well said. I didn’t know you had it in you.
    I agree with you and would have said the same thing myself if I could.

  47. J to the T — on 19th November, 2011 at 2:31 pm  

    I agree with Douglas as well: MAC / EDL / UAF, they are all nonentities really.

    They muster between just over a dozen to up to a thousand between them and have little to no impact on peoples lives and zero impact upon British politics.

    These street movements are a waste of time, in my opinion, things change through the ballot box, not through walking with a sign.

    They are each so overhyped its bizarre.

    But under our laws and our democratic value they each have a right to exist and protest provided they do not incite violence or become violent and I find the methods and arguments to attempt to ban and actually ban them to be fundamentally un-British, unfair, undemocratic and a serious danger to liberty.

    Not one of these groups can in any kind of reality be classified as terrorist but yet one has already been banned as such, and another is constantly being painted as such with non-stop completely tenuous horseshit about ‘links’ to some Norwegian nutter and the like.

    Now if we go banning groups under such spurious tenets, and we allow it to happen because we may not like that group, how long will it be groups you agree with are given the same treatment: One mans terrorist being another mans freedom fighter, and all that.

    Democracy is not about agreeing with everyone’s opinions, it is about respecting everyone’s right to hold that opinion.

    History should have taught all of us that people’s beliefs and opinions cannot be banned anyway, they can only temporarily be prohibited in public and that such a road is always the road to tyranny.

    It is for these reasons that I strongly disagree with Jai’s hysterical one sided posts that are quite clearly flawed in detail. And it is because these posts are quite clearly flawed in detail that Jai will allow no challenge to them, no debate and no deviation from Jai’s absolutist ‘angels and demons’ world view.

    It is un-British and it is pure cowardice: I challenge Jai to allow all of those posts and people he deleted that dared to correct simple facts back on to one his threads, and that he debate, at least once, in an open fashion and defend his arguments.

    If cannot or will not do that, then the man is not to be trusted as he quite clearly doesn’t even believe in his own posts.

    This relatively innocuous, and factually correct post of mine was amongst over a dozen other casualties in his last posts:

    I agree that most of this piece is fundamentally flawed, starting with the very headline.

    1) A disowned person issuing a threat on Twitter is hardly ‘intelligence’ and hardly ‘The EDL’ and this guy was not even amongst the completely innocent 176 people illegally arrested by the police.

    As described on the previous thread: The police claim that they believed ‘the EDL’ intended to ‘attack’ the St Paul’s camp.

    Now it is only legal (but still warped) to arrest for ‘preventative’ breach of the peace if that breach is ‘imminent’ and these people were still in a pub in Parliament Street, over 2 miles away from St Paul’s.

    So clearly no offence had been committed at the time of arrest nor was it even possible that the purported (future) ‘offence’ was ‘imminent.’

    Once again, the British police arrested 176 completely innocent people who had committed no crime and did so beyond the remit of even draconian laws.

    2) You claim a link you provide proves that Lake “openly discussed his involvement with the EDL as a financier and strategist.”

    Whereas what it actually says is:

    “This summer he contacted the EDL and offered to both fund and advise the movement.”

    Clearly meaning that he had no position in the EDL, and an offer is not actuality, but this is something Lake denies in any case:

    “… Alan Lake, widely described as the EDL’s chief financier, a claim fiercely denied by Lake …”

    Article

    As does Yaxley-Lennon:

    ““He has never been a member, he has never given us any money … He spoke at two demos and he wore a suit, and all of a sudden he was a millionaire funder.”

    Article

    Just how much ‘financing’ does a street protest movement need anyway? Aside from a website that pretty much anyone can afford to run, what other expenses could there be?

  48. douglas clark — on 19th November, 2011 at 6:32 pm  

    damon and J to a T,

    Quite astonished at this new ‘thread is now closed’ strategy. It is actually wrong to think that Jai isn’t capable of taking on the dark side. You only have to look at his take down of the BNP a wee while ago. So why does he do it?

    ____________________________

    My problem with treating these people as important is that it completely plays to their agenda, not ours. We ought to ridicule them rather than treat them seriously. These are people who crave publicity, I have ‘followed’ Anjem Choudry for a while now and it is as obvious as fuck that he feeds on the controversy. It is a career choice, which has been followed by other publicity seekers like the EDL.

    Indeed both groups hide behind ‘freedom of expression’ arguements, specific examples would be the right to protest outside a mosque in Luton (?) and the potential disruption at Wooton Basset. I don’t think I am alone in seeing these as deliberate ‘boundary testing’. Then these idiots say it’s a freedom of assembly / freedom of speech issue.

    Is it really? I think they make ‘good’ TV. I think that we now know when we are being comprehensively lied to / wound up / given chewing gum for our prejudices. It is as if politics has descended to being about false controversy.

    I am a fan of Strictly come Dancing. But I recognise that it is entertainment, not reality. Why is it that you’ll get more interest in Holly Vallance’s dance partner than you’ll get in slagging the EDL or Islam4UK or whatever they are calling themselves these days? It is because television audience share cuts across entertainment / news boundaries. Controversy sells.

    Perhaps I have hung around here too long but most folk have had their eyes opened by sites like this. It is a public good.

    It is a shame that it seems to be in a bit of a lull at the moment.

    To conclude, these bastards need each other, as does 24/7 media.

    It is my contention that we don’t.

  49. damon — on 20th November, 2011 at 1:28 pm  

    Douglas, the closing of threads and the lack of moderator interaction on them speaks for itself.
    They have the wrong kind of readership and people who leave comments. It’s not worth spending the time.

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