Series of events: what next for India and Pakistan?


by Sunny
8th October, 2011 at 10:50 am    

Baroness Sayeeda Warsi is to kick off a series of four events with a speech exploring the complex and intimate relationships between Pakistan, Britain and the Pakistani diaspora in the UK.
The four debates will discuss:

· Given the historic ties between Britain and Pakistan (with 1.2 Million British citizens having Pakistani heritage and over 10,000 people flying from Manchester Airport to Pakistan every week) – what next for Britain and Pakistan?

· Do Westminster’s political and media networks engage sufficiently with the national British Pakistani community? Has the Prevent strategy resulted in the alienation of British Pakistani young people, and if so, how can more positive opportunities be created?

· Have the negative news reports and media narratives surrounding the conflicts in Pakistan and neighbouring Afghanistan effected community relations in Britain?

· With the Pakistani diaspora continuing to support families, businesses, charities and welfare organisations back in Pakistan, what more can they do to engage with the recently announced £650 million DFID Pakistan aid programme?

· The series will feature prominent figures from the worlds of politics, business, arts, charity, culture, religion, philanthropy, development and the media (by tests forge richards). The programme will explore the historic, family, contemporary, economic, military and cultural ties between Britain and Pakistan and discuss the future for these relations both as part of the Commonwealth and in the context of a globalised 21st Century.

The events kick off 10th October. See this page for more details and if you want to attend.


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  1. sunny hundal

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  1. damon — on 8th October, 2011 at 11:21 am  

    In my rather limmited understanding of Pakistan, I just have my memories of passing through it in the 1980s and documentaries like this excellent one Peter Oborne did on the ambulance drivers of Karachi.

    In 2010, more civilians were killed in political, ethnic and criminal violence in Karachi than in terrorist attacks across the whole of Pakistan.

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/episode-guide/series-2011/episode-4

    10,000 British people fly out every week to see their families. Fair enough, but Pakistan itself is beyond help at the moment I think. Where to even speak out against the blasphemy laws will get you killed and educated people – like lawyers, will treat the killer as a hero.

  2. Amina ahmed — on 8th October, 2011 at 4:45 pm  

    Well a fairly frequent poster platinum786 is a a fan of the murderer, but thats ok as he’s part of the Ummah, so Refresh will always back him up, even when he calls Jews cockroaches and Hindu’s and Indians rats.

    Still, its nice to see that free speach is sacrosanct on here NOT!

  3. zak — on 8th October, 2011 at 8:37 pm  

    oy i object to the london centric nature of these events btw where does the 10,000 people number come from ?

  4. platinum786 — on 10th October, 2011 at 2:31 pm  

    I’ve said it before and will say it again. I will shed no tears if people people like Salman Taseer are killed, regardless of who does it and why. They are part of the elite of Pakistan, the very same privileged people who have the blood of the nation on their hands, corrupt, power hungry multi millionaires, engaged in dynasty politics, with a hand in everything that goes wrong.

    EVERY time I have said I don’t care how and by whom Salman Taseer and his ilk are killed, I have stated that I SUPPORTED his views on the blasphemy law, I also think the guy who did it should face justice. Ironically in Pakistan the concept of justice has become ever more vague since the Raymond Davis fiasco. If that was justice, than surely justice should be equal for all.

    It’s great how some people like to miss out certain bits when they quote me, very curious how selective you are.

  5. platinum786 — on 10th October, 2011 at 2:47 pm  

    As for Pakistan, I think the world should stop sending Aid to Pakistan altogether. If Aid is sent it should be sent to non government organisations, groups who actually will do something with the money rather than use it buying 16th century castles in France.

    Pakistan is not a poor country, it’s a poorly governed country. It has one of the lowest tax incomes in the world, I was reading Imran Khans book recently and I think the figures he quoted were 1 in 10 or 1 in 6 eligable to pay tax, actually even bother to register. Far fewer pay Tax. The largest industry in the country is agriculture and ALL agricultural income is non taxable.

    Pakistan needs free and fair elections, it needs the UN to intervene and monitor elections. Election rigging and the farce that is democratic government in Pakistan is genuinely pushing people away from an interest in politics and they see democracy as a failed system in Pakistan. The alternative people now look at is no longer the military, but an Iran style religious government, which would be an even more epic fail. The world sanctions Pakistan when it’s military takes power, but what is done when it’s politicians rig elections? What about peoples choice then? Sanctions on known corrupt criminals or people known to be involved in electoral fraud should be put in place, foreign assets frozen.

    That is the help Pakistan needs.

  6. platinum786 — on 10th October, 2011 at 3:15 pm  

    Extremism, Pakistan and Poor governance.

    Read the below article;

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/269918/dress-modestly-masked-men-enter-girls-school-thrash-students/

    Extremist thugs entered a girls school in a middle class area of Rawalpindi, in Pakistan, and attacked staff and students, warning people to “dress modestly”. Shock horror etc. The thing is, that’s not the worse part, the worst part is this;

    “A police official of the New Town Police Station, asking for anonymity, told The Express Tribune, “We were under strict instructions to do nothing.””

    Who ORDERED the police to do nothing? It is obviously someone of authority, they weren’t about the be ordered by some criminal gang, that’s not how it works, you pay the police for their complicity, not threaten them. Someone high up was involved.

    Cast your memories back to the Lal Masjid affair, how did the guys get weapons into the middle of the capital city without being caught, bare in mind there was a lot of checking of vehicles etc going on.

    The main mullah was caught with a car full of heavy weapons, he was let off scott free when Ijaz Ul Haq, politician for the PML-N (Pakistan’s current opposition party) intervened on his behalf.

  7. Refresh — on 11th October, 2011 at 11:12 am  

    Amina Ahmed,

    There is much to be said on the subject, but surely the discussion cannot be advanced with you starting with lies?

    Do you want to provide evidence? I imagine you would not find it difficult as you have assumed the memory of an elephant, albeit with the manners of baboon.

  8. Refresh — on 11th October, 2011 at 12:30 pm  

    Platinum786,

    You may not shed a tear for the murder of Taseer but it being another act of terror, designed to silence everyone, it does not assist in any way the goal of removing the elite.

    I agree completely on the question of aid. That same argument applies in many regions of the world, Africa being another obvious example.

    Only when Aid is stopped (preferably, rejected), the elite dismantled (preferably, exiled, though that would probably mean an exodus to London) will Pakistan get to rebuild itself. And its a view I’ve held for as long as I can remember.

    Imran Khan will need all the support he can get from the diaspora around the world. He deserves it.

  9. Refresh — on 11th October, 2011 at 1:11 pm  

    Here is a piece on Haiti:

    ‘The astonishing apology by former US president Bill Clinton for his part in the destruction of Haiti’s agricultural sector in the 1980s and 1990s is welcome, but cannot reverse history. While he insists the US and others were acting in good faith as they flooded the Haitian market with cheap food – fatally undermining local producers while benefiting US farmers – few development experts will take that seriously. It follows a pattern of dependency-generation too well established to be excused as an unfortunate mistake.

    Using a range of tools – trade deals, military threats, support for despots, and conditions attached to aid and debt packages, as documented in this Christian Aid report – the west has systematically ruined Haiti’s chances of emerging from destitution.’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/oct/11/haiti-tailor-made-south-south-cooperation

  10. Refresh — on 11th October, 2011 at 1:56 pm  

    #7 and I add:

    and the cunning of an hyena.

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