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    9/11 conspiracy theories

    by Sunny on 12th September, 2007 at 6:03 pm    

    Peter Tatchell has written an interesting article for CIF asking why the US government hasn’t made more of an effort to explain the glaring holes in the official 9/11 narrative. He believes, as I do, that it wasn’t a grand conspiracy instigated by the CIA/FBI/MI5/Mossad/Freemasons/Illuminati etc. But there are holes. The problem is, even pointing out these holes in our emotionally super-charged political atmosphere means others instantly accuse you of indulging in conspiracy theory. Quite sad really.

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    31 Comments below   |  

    1. Roger — on 12th September, 2007 at 7:04 pm  

      Actually, there aren’t many holes. What there are are a lot of contradictory remarks made by officials at different times as they learned more, inaccurate guesses later withdrawn and ignorance [look at the enormous debates about the melting point of steel, all of whaich depend on the assumption that steel remains just as strong regardless of temperature below its melting point]. We don’t need an inquiry; we need a detailed, moment-by moment account of what happened, including those bits which are hypothetical and why it is thought they happened.

    2. Sid — on 12th September, 2007 at 8:12 pm  

      I remember reports of intact copies of the passports of Mohammed Atta and other terrorists were found within a few blocks of the WTC. Considering it took months to identify victims from the remains, the finding of undamaged passports was more than a little fishy.

      Was this a hole or another one of the “contradictory remarks”?

    3. sonia — on 12th September, 2007 at 8:23 pm  

      well i can answer the question why the US government hasn’t made more of an effort : because they know they didn’t need to really - and did they? they got voted back in, and that’s all political parties seem to care about.

    4. Joe Otten — on 12th September, 2007 at 8:24 pm  

      I would guess that a) right wingers like people to believe conspiracy theories because it tends to make them politically impotent, and b) there is habitual secrecy to be maintained over intelligence-related information that could shed some light on what happened.

    5. sonia — on 12th September, 2007 at 8:35 pm  

      and c) that no one really knows anything anyway

      ( which as far as i can see, links in nicely with the cock-up theory of life which we can see all around us!)

    6. sonia — on 12th September, 2007 at 8:36 pm  

      mind you, it doesn’t excuse them - if one wants to pretend one is a strong government that knows what it’s doing, one ought to be held to account.

    7. Ismaeel — on 12th September, 2007 at 9:21 pm  

      Ramadhan Mubarak everyone.

    8. Nyrone — on 12th September, 2007 at 11:15 pm  

      Why do we all never hear anything about the plane that hit the pentagon, or the one that crashed in a field in Shanksville? I’m not stating that JFK did it with Elvis or anything, but why not a shred of photographic or video evidence of these 2 incidents? The lack of information about them just serves to make the whole affair more roswell-esque, was this intended?

      Peter Tatchell also makes a good point half way down in a reply post on the CIF article, giving past examples of scenarios in which the US knowingly decevied the global public over international incidents of mass importance for it’s own putrid, lurid goals. From a strictly factual standpoint, it’s his intro paragraph regarding the self-stated failings of the 9/11 commission that lays the foundation for the rest of the piece, and rightly so..It’s good to say a heavily factual jounalist ask these questions for a change in the public sphere, I almost wanted to blow my brains out after watching that piece of crap so-called ‘documentary’ Loose change.

    9. sonia — on 12th September, 2007 at 11:38 pm  

      oh yeah good point nyrone - and the bit of footage released under the FOIA - what a laugh that was. big gaping hole right there.

      ah well i suppose it will simply languish on our list of unsolved mysteries which simply gets bigger by the day.

      i suppose those of us who believe in the afterlife will have to remember to ask God when there’s a chance. So sir, tell me please..i’ve been dying to know all this time! was it really oj? where’s maddie? who did 9/11?

    10. sonia — on 12th September, 2007 at 11:39 pm  

      footage of that plane that went into the pentagon - i meant.

    11. Leon — on 12th September, 2007 at 11:54 pm  

      Sheesh. Sept 11 happens, they use it to invade in the ME and we’re concerned with whether a plane hit the Pentagon or not…? This is why I keep away from all the conspiracy bullshit, it’s just one big distraction.

    12. Chris Paul — on 13th September, 2007 at 1:25 am  

      The holes have mostly been fisked and filled in. Cock ups by the dozen. A president who had mostly been on vacation. A president who continued to read his favourite Eric Carle picture book for ages after the news came through. Cock ups.

    13. Nyrone — on 13th September, 2007 at 9:48 am  

      Leon, they are inter-connected. These failings represent dishonesty and contempt by the US goverment towards its people. Logic implies that clearly establishing their dishonesty now, would set a future precedent legally to question their official ‘truth’.

    14. Letters From A Tory — on 13th September, 2007 at 9:56 am  

      The problem is that once you start chipping away at a few small things, the bigger picture starts to gradually disintegrate. If all the obvious concerns are addressed, other theories will start to fill the void - it’s only natural that people offer alternative explanations when something genuinely doesn’t fit.

    15. The Common Humanist — on 13th September, 2007 at 11:47 am  

      The holes as such tend to relate to the Bush Admin scrabbling to obscure the fact they weren’t at all interested in AQ etc, but rather entered office with the same concenrs as they left in 92 - Russia and China.

      There is footage of the Pentagon hit. The reason the hole isn’t massive is that the Pentagon is designed to survive a massive conventional assault. The plane that hit, although large, wasn’t on the same scale as a Soviet cruise missile etc.

      THe Bush chaps covering their incompetant asses (like ignoring the outgoing Clinton Peoples assessment that AQ was thew single largest foreign policy issue)* have made it look to some people liek there was something fishy going on.

      *Worth bearing in mind that the GOP obstructed, for narrow party political reasons, many of the Clinton WH efforts to stop Bin Laden**

      **They also killed the Al Gore led Tsumani Warning Program just to spite him. The system would have saved so many many lives in 2004. There really is no depth, no mendacious act to which American Conservatives won’t stoop to.

    16. ChrisC — on 13th September, 2007 at 3:08 pm  

      Tatchell very foolishly linked to a raft of conspiracy sites while failing to link to any sites aiming to debunk those myths.
      Now he is scrabbling to cover his tail somewhat.
      I don’t doubt his motives, but it was a very badly drafted article.
      (Which has had over *500* comments in less than a day - many of which are completely bonkers.)

    17. Sid — on 13th September, 2007 at 3:38 pm  

      while failing to link to any sites aiming to debunk those myths

      I haven’t seen a debunking of the “Terrorist Passports that fell out the sky Intact and Undamaged”.

      But I’d love to know who was blowing what up who’s arse on that one.

    18. Jagdeep — on 13th September, 2007 at 3:44 pm  

      The jooz did it.

    19. The Common Humanist — on 13th September, 2007 at 3:54 pm  

      Does anyone still seriously think that Atta et al didn’t do it?


    20. Sid — on 13th September, 2007 at 4:08 pm  

      He must have, his passport wasn’t forged.

    21. soru — on 13th September, 2007 at 4:12 pm  

      Given that, judging by his last message, bin laden now spends his time hanging around on various internet blogs, do you think it is likely he will become a conspiracy theorist about 9/11 too?

    22. Sid — on 13th September, 2007 at 4:15 pm  

      bin laden is my facebook friend. but my passport is slightly frayed around the edges.

    23. Nyrone — on 13th September, 2007 at 4:47 pm  

      I just have trouble visualising Bin laden devouring Chomsky and Scheuer whilst sitting in his cave making videos.

      However, what puzzles me most about him, is how nobody has tried to sell him out for the $25m.
      My guess is that plenty have tried and the FBI have replied with a polite “no thanks, not interested”.

    24. Jagdeep — on 13th September, 2007 at 5:03 pm  

      Yeah sure, they don’t want Bin Laden and they wouldn’t follow up leads about them, yeah sure, add another conspiracy theory into the whirlpool. Drop another one in about half an hour.

      The certainty of being killed for grassing on him (what’s a goat herder going to do with and where’s he going to hide $25 million?), the probability that people are loyal to him, are sheltering him well, all these things are why he hasn’t been found yet.

    25. Nyrone — on 13th September, 2007 at 5:23 pm  

      Oh Juggy, how I love to see you froth.
      Has it been 30 mins yet?

      Your point only works on the naive assumption that only goat herders know where Bin Laden is hiding, which is frankly, ridiculous.

    26. Jagdeep — on 13th September, 2007 at 5:38 pm  

      Only cappucinos froth Nyrone.

      So who knows where Bin Laden is? And why is it naive to think that he hasn’t been found because people either (a) fear for their lives if they become grasses (b) They are loyal to him (c) Something else like he’s really well hidden.

      It’s certainly not as frothy as the idea that American agencies know where he is but can’t be arsed to take him out.

    27. Nyrone — on 13th September, 2007 at 6:05 pm  

      It isn’t naive to think that perhaps he hasn’t been found because of your points a,b and c.
      It’s just naive to assume that the only person able to hand him in right about now would be a goat-herder:)

      regarding fearing for their lives, I thought $25m would give you decent protection.
      and as for loyalty, it didn’t quite work with Saddam that day.

      I wasn’t totally serious about the FBI saying “no thanks” It was a joke, that I fear might have a tinge of (tragic) truth to it. Are you telling me it’s out of the question that somebody in Washington would prefer Osama to be on the run, rather than behind bars? What exactly happened at the Tora Bora caves then?

    28. Jagdeep — on 13th September, 2007 at 6:13 pm  

      Well the goat herder was a joke too.

      Who’s the sinister ’somebody’ in Washington who decides not to catch Bin Laden when they know where he is? It’s all a self reflecting room of mirrors and conjecture, with ghosts and phantoms in strategic places, to construct a house of conspiracy with its own self justifying logic. If this, if that, then that, then this —- I can string a bunch of ifs and whys about any subject. And then when somebody comes along and says, hey, look at this kaleidoscope, it’s a fractal of colours with its own whirlpool of logic, you can say what do they know about it anyway, you’re just naive.

    29. Jai — on 13th September, 2007 at 6:53 pm  

      The jooz did it.

      Guj-jooz ? ;)

      They’re always up to no good. The Patel Massive, counting their benjamins. And let’s not even get started about those naughty Shah girls.

      c) Something else like he’s really well hidden.

      There’s a theory in my house that Bin Laden’s beard in his latest video looks a bit fake. Harder to spot him if the dude’s actually running around all clean-shaven and whatnot.

      Given that, judging by his last message, bin laden now spends his time hanging around on various internet blogs,

      The thought of him lurking on Pickled Politics and Sepia Mutiny is actually quite amusing.

    30. Nyrone — on 13th September, 2007 at 8:54 pm  

      I know, it’s speculation, and sadly non-factual….what what is factual?
      I find it hard to believe anything in all honesty.
      Even words, infinitely definable at different times of the day, according to an individual’s unique emotions and based on various intepretations of one’s own experience.

      But just because you can’t prove it, doesn’t mean you should rule out its existence.
      History can usually be a pretty good indicator.

    31. Kismet Hardy — on 14th September, 2007 at 12:59 pm  

      It boils down to this.

      If you don’t listen to what conspiracy theorists have to say, you’re taking the word of the secret service

      Only fools don’t question answers

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