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    Chinese hackers… and German bombers


    by Sunny on 5th September, 2007 at 2:34 pm    

    This attack of the Chinese hackers hardly sounds like a good development. I bet it will hardly register in the blogosphere (or public consciousness) though. Surely we should be a tad bit worried about these sort of attacks? I’m beginning to think that the Chinese and Russians are probably glad that all the public focus here and the USA is on Muslim extremism; no one is paying them the slightest bit of attention.

    Post updated: Not that Islamist terrorism has gone away.

    The police in Germany have arrested three Islamic militants suspected of planning large-scale terrorist attacks against several sites frequented by Americans, including discos, bars, airports and military installations.

    “They were planning massive attacks,” the German federal prosecutor, Monika Harms, said at a news conference, outlining a vast six-month investigation. She said that the suspects had amassed huge amounts of hydrogen peroxide, the main chemical used to manufacture the explosives used in the suicide bombings in London in July 2005.

    Ms. Harms said the two German suspects were converts to Islam who had trained in terrorist camps in Pakistan. They had 1,500 pounds of hydrogen peroxide to make explosives, which they had hidden and were preparing to move when they were arrested on Tuesday afternoon. Officials said they also had military-grade detonators.



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    56 Comments below   |  

    1. Leon — on 5th September, 2007 at 5:11 pm  

      I love games like Risk, the Total War series on the PC etc (big surprise to anyone that knows me!). If I were either China or Russia [and so inclined] what I’d do is fund covertly militant Islamic groups for precisely that reason Sunny. It’d make a great distraction…

      Moving on to the potential xenophobia/nationalistic utility of this information I’d say it’s not like Russia and China are the only players in the military intelligence.

      If this is what ‘they’ are doing to ‘us’, my next question is what are ‘we’ doing to ‘them’?

    2. Vikrant — on 5th September, 2007 at 8:26 pm  

      @Leon: There is a line of thinking in India that China does help fund Islamist terrorist violence directed at India. Most f te jihadist armament is made in China!

      Still the hacker attack from China sounds juvenile. Chinese hackers gotta be the only ones who hack along nationalist lines.

    3. Chris Paul — on 5th September, 2007 at 9:51 pm  

      Didn’t those BNP-linked clowns in Colne has some of that? Along with 20-odd other ingredients. Will be interesting to see whether these folk get similar exemplary sentences. The BNP boyos were planning to assassinate the PM after all.

    4. douglas clark — on 5th September, 2007 at 11:34 pm  

      Leon @ 1,

      Yeah, but it ain’t the games we like to play. They end up in resets, another chance. It is frankly a bugger that real life is not a computer game.

      This is serious shit with serious consquences. We certainly should look at evil bastards trying to smash up our playground as, well, evil bastards trying to break up our playgrounds. And do something about it.

      You are the man for that!

    5. lithcol — on 5th September, 2007 at 11:42 pm  

      How naïve it was of me to think that my children might experience the relative tranquillity that I have experienced.

      Being a so called post war baby boomer my life has been good. Granted there have been wars and other unspeakable acts in parts of the world many of us in the UK have been immune to their effects.

      The 21st century has started badly and the signs are that events will get infinitely worse.

      Forget global warming, the potential for conflict is increasing exponentially and may well lead to the extinction or at the very least the return of humanity to the stone age.

      China is hungry for resources and like many nations before it will acquire them by whatever means. Russia its nearest neighbour has them in abundance. We can expect that old territorial dispute will be resurrected with new ferocity and will probably be the foundation for conflict.

    6. Leon — on 5th September, 2007 at 11:52 pm  

      You are the man for that!

      Er…what?

    7. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2007 at 12:01 am  

      Leon,

      You are the man. It is obviously wrong for bad folk to try to take over fun areas of t’internet. Well, any areas of the internet, really. You are the guy that points out how good it could be, that’s all I’m saying. Just keep clear of the Kryptonite.

    8. lithcol — on 6th September, 2007 at 1:59 am  

      And we wonder why no one replies on PP. Fairwell.

    9. Sunny — on 6th September, 2007 at 3:52 am  

      Douglas, where have you been hiding lately? Check your facebook page.

    10. bananabrain — on 6th September, 2007 at 9:08 am  

      If this is what ‘they’ are doing to ‘us’, my next question is what are ‘we’ doing to ‘them’?

      leon, i understand your issue with this but i have to wonder why it is that your first question on any issue is *always* “ooh, we must have done something to deserve this, i wonder what dirty tricks and immoral acts government / business / society have been up to?” is it not even remotely possible that sometimes some groups are actually just aggressive and don’t give a flying feck about morality? i mean, what did the germans do to deserve those guys trying to bomb them? they’re hardly charging around the world wearing big neo-con stetsons.

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    11. Leon — on 6th September, 2007 at 10:22 am  

      i understand your issue with this but i have to wonder why it is that your first question on any issue is *always* “ooh, we must have done something to deserve this

      I never said what have we done to deserve this. What I was getting at was the activities of various intelligence agencies and how they intertwine.

      I didn’t make a moral judgment…my comment was up before Sunny updated to include the German story so had no relevance directly to that.

      I wish I could say more but the men in black would drag me away into the night! ;D

    12. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2007 at 11:56 am  

      Sunny @ 9,

      I’m afraid my PC crashed and burned. Only got, most of it, back yesterday. Leon might appreciate this more than your good self, but all my Oblivion game saves are RIP. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

      I see you’ve been busy….

    13. Leon — on 6th September, 2007 at 12:10 pm  

      Ouch, wow that’s some pain, there’s nothing worse than losing save data on a RPG!

    14. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 3:13 pm  

      Russians are probably glad that all the public focus here and the USA is on Muslim extremism; no one is paying them the slightest bit of attention.

      More likely they are very pleased that a huge chunk of our population has decided to give them the benefit of the doubt at every opportunity, that many of us have decided that if they want to torture their dissidents as part of their ‘culture’ its fine, yet our own government only spin lies, that we should distance ourselves from our historical ally.

      I doubt they give a monkeys about the public focus on Muslim extremism, but are delighted with our secret services focus on Muslim extremists rather than Russian and Chinese agents.

      In fact I would say the one statement that would make them grin from ear to ear is the cries of: “Democracy is hypocrisy.”

      TFI

    15. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 3:19 pm  

      If this is what ‘they’ are doing to ‘us’, my next question is what are ‘we’ doing to ‘them’?

      Bravo Leon! Bravo! That is the most important question for us to focus on! Our government huh? All full of lies and don’t represent our best interests in any way shape or form! Trial before jury, equality of all people, a system that embodies this these things isn’t worth defending, is it?

      The Iraq War!

      The Iraq War!

      The Iraq War!

      Blah blah blah.

      TFI

    16. Leon — on 6th September, 2007 at 3:32 pm  

      Bravo Leon! Bravo! That is the most important question for us to focus on!

      You know good quality sarcasm takes real skill…again I never said it was the most important question or even the most relevant one that everyone in the UK should ask, just that it would be my first question.

      I know it’s tempting to shove words in other peoples mouth because it helps with that straw man you’re fighting but Jesus…

    17. Nyrone — on 6th September, 2007 at 4:11 pm  

      Could someone please slap TFI in the face with a hammer?

    18. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 4:19 pm  

      I know nothing of this strawman you speak of, I was taking the piss, and don’t call me Jesus, I have no beard, no sandles and no imaginary friends.

      TFI

    19. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 4:20 pm  

      Its Hammer time? I thought that was an 80’s thing.

      TFI

    20. Sofia — on 6th September, 2007 at 4:21 pm  

      TFI I think the point is the fact that we supposedly have all these things in place but they are being eroded at any given opportunity. It’s one thing having something on paper and another creating a society which embodies the principles. I don’t know whether I would interpret what Leon was saying in the same way you did. If you want to practise what you preach then recognise that he has every right to question his government and its actions. If we look at what china, russia or any other country’s secret service is doing in our country,then surely a logical question would be looking at what we were doing in theirs. People in glass houses etc….

    21. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 4:59 pm  

      Hi Sofia,

      I think that you are missing my point. There are nations out there that our hostile to this country and it would appear that they are getting very bold in stealing our and our allies secrets, infiltrating our police systems, even (allegedly) performing assassinations on our streets.

      If I lived on the moon and thought one side as bad as the other I might take the line “people that live in glass houses”, but I don’t. I’m not bipartisan in this I live in the UK and “The West”. Threats to either of these entities are a direct (or indirect) threat to my way of life.

      Even then, if we were discussing North vs South Korea I wouldn’t use cultural relativism. I would compare them and decide which matches closes to my liberal ideals and give that country my support. To not do this at some level is a form of nihilism.

      The logical question to me is how do we protect our rights, our way of life and our quality of life in the future? How do we safe guard these things and if anything how to we help those people living in police states under fear of the government to a better future to enjoy the quality of life that I do?

      It would seem to me that patriotism is dead, it has become a dirty word associated with “imperialism”.

      Bollocks to “what are we doing against them?” what are we doing to protect ourselves from these aggressive states*?

      TFI
      * I’m now waiting for someone to say “ah ha! UK \ USA are the only aggressive states on this planet! What are those countries doing to protect themselves from us? Iraq war! Iraq War!”

    22. Sofia — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:12 pm  

      TFI depends what your definition of “patriot” is..I also think your “them vs us” theory a bit simplistic…and a bit patronising…

    23. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:15 pm  

      “what are wme doing against them?” “people in glass houses” etc

      Does this question lead to a line of thinking that goes: “if we do not spy on them, they will not spy on us?” In what way is that a useful view on the world?

      TFI

    24. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:17 pm  

      Sofia, if you want to feel patronised, be my guest.

      TFI

    25. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:24 pm  

      BTW Sofia, the definition that I use for the word “patriot” is the one that can be found in the Oxford English dictionary:

      http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/patriot?view=uk

      “noun a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it.”

      What dictionary do you consult?

      TFI

    26. Sofia — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:33 pm  

      you can rigourously support something and criticise it at the same time..that is not mutually exclusive. As for the whole if we don’t spy on them they won’t spy on us…where did i say that? i merely highlighted that our blind patriotism should not reduce us to blithering idiots that take everything at face value…and yes I will go on about iraq, because we were fed a load of fucking bollocks, just like we were about afghanistan and just what we are being fed about Iran..

    27. Sofia — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:35 pm  

      thank u for the oxford dictionary link..i’m sure i would never have understood what the definition of patriot is without one…

    28. Don — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:36 pm  

      We have spies, they have spies, all god’s children have spies. If they are not spying on each other, why the hell are they drawing salary?

      Every spy who is spying on another spy is a spy not spying on me. And if their spies are better at spying on our spies than our spies are at spying on their spies, then the answer is not to moan about their spies, but to make sure that our spies are spying more effectively. Is there an OFSPY?

    29. Steve — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:38 pm  

      Sunny - it registered in this part of the blogosphere:

      http://pubphilosopher.blogs.com/pub_philosopher/2007/09/china-tools-up-.html

    30. justforfun — on 6th September, 2007 at 5:58 pm  

      OFSPY - they recruit exclusively from ex OFSTED inspectors. Make of that what you will.

      We are all doomed.

      Justforfun

    31. Don — on 6th September, 2007 at 6:18 pm  

      Actually, a few years ago MI5 were actively recruiting teachers. The idea seems to have been that teachers had the skills to spot time-wasters at initial interview stage.

      The salary was incredibly crap for London.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/926168.stm

    32. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:04 pm  

      Well put Don, of course if those spies start being to bold in what they want \ do, or don’t care to much if they are caught with their hand in the till, or even start murdering other spies in our capital we have an issue as there is a certain lack of respect …

      I’m 100% certain that we know nothing of what is really going on and the issue has simply got to the point that the government(s) are allowing the press to talk about it in an attempt to apply some pressure onto the foreign governments which is a futile gesture as they are happy taking the piss now that we have sold them so many British companies and they have such political influence over our economy.

      Sofia, I’m sure that you are right. We have nothing to worry about with a nuclear armed Iran. In fact I’m so sure that it is such it is all such pack of lies that the place doesn’t even exist. Further more, anytime you would like to feel patronized feel free to call and I’ll do so to your hearts content.

      In the world of geopolitics, Islamic terrorism isn’t worth shit, Islamism and the potential of a aggressive new Caliphate is, as is the influence of Russia, China, Europe and America as the oil and gas starts to run dry. Islamic terrorism is merely a side show to what is really important in this world, i.e. the movement and wants of the giants.

      You can try and be as impartial as you like, but our cities would fall apart in 3-4 days if the oil started to run dry, and we all would go hungry. Don’t claim too much about the bloody on the hands of our government, we all bathe and benefit from it on a daily basis.

      God I’m a bundle of joy today, maybe I need some sugar.

      TFI

    33. justforfun — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:10 pm  

      TFI - best not to think about it too much - just keep busy - have you checked the “Use BY” date on the Baked Beans in your Bunker? I’ve just checked mine - I have untill 2029 before I have to replace them

      Justforfun

    34. justforfun — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:14 pm  

      Don - ring up MI5 & 6 - there may be a ‘finders fee’ for any good recruits you point their way. Surely some of your pupils must be looking for adventure in the new Great Game.

      Justforfun

    35. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:21 pm  

      justforfun, that is some of the best advice I’ve ever read on this site … now where is my xbox controller? I’ve a world to save …

      TFI

    36. Don — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:23 pm  

      JFF,

      Special Needs, mate. Although given current performance …

    37. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:32 pm  

      Don, might that make them suitable for Special Ops?

      TFI

    38. Jai — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:55 pm  

      If they are not spying on each other, why the hell are they drawing salary?

      Because it gives them something to do while they drive around in Aston Martins while sipping Martinis and having their wicked way with hot chicks with foreign accents. Okay, maybe that’s just me.

      now that we have sold them so many British companies and they have such political influence over our economy.

      Hasn’t a major Chinese bank just invested a considerable amount in Barclays and thereby gained some ownership of the firm ?

      Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6911305.stm

    39. Jai — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:56 pm  

      Because it gives them something to do while they drive around in Aston Martins while sipping Martinis and having their wicked way with hot chicks with foreign accents.

      Assuming that they’re not getting beaten up by amnesiac American secret agents, of course…..

    40. Soso — on 6th September, 2007 at 7:59 pm  

      i merely highlighted that our blind patriotism should not reduce us to blithering idiots that take everything at face value…

      And this from someone who takes the Koran at face value?

      Blithering idiots?

      You betcha sweetie!

    41. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 6th September, 2007 at 9:20 pm  

      Shhh … Soso … Shhh… say that again and Sunny will close thread.

      TFI

    42. Sunny — on 6th September, 2007 at 11:30 pm  

      And this from someone who takes the Koran at face value?

      Apparently you know Sofia better than anyone, just by readig her name on a website. Wow, Soso must be working for the American intelligence. Though given their recent performance….

    43. Chris Stiles — on 7th September, 2007 at 2:01 am  

      This attack of the Chinese hackers hardly sounds like a good development.

      Neither does ‘Muslim bombers’ - but then we all pick our topic on which we are going to magically transmorgify into Mad Mel Phillips. A whiff of techology and objectivity and logic fly out of the window.

      *So far* the chinese ‘hacker’ incident seems to be a lot less serious than the ‘FSB attack’ of Estonia - which was in itself mostly puff (the attack was tiny).

    44. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 7th September, 2007 at 8:58 am  

      Come’on Chris! There are a great deal of stories about Chinese spies out there.

      http://tinyurl.com/yr8tnm

      My favorite story was the one about the number of police officers sent from China that arrived in the country to help out with the cockle workers that drowned. Half the plane disappeared and one of them was found up to his arms in the crime database.

      Think about how useful a list of all the criminals whose morals could be bought to work against the country?

      Actually no, my real favorite was when the US spy plane crashed and they completely dismantled in 2 days and then said “what?”.

      No fear, no fear at all …

      TFI

    45. bananabrain — on 7th September, 2007 at 9:24 am  

      *claps loudly for TFI*

      like sonia, i don’t see why we can’t be patriotic and also loudly critical - after all we criticise institutions because we think they are worth preserving and reforming and even though i don’t actually believe in the nation-state as a concept, you’ve got to start from where you are and england and the UK is a large part of my identity and one for which i have to thank much of my outlook, to say nothing of the gift of the language. maybe we should have a thread about all the things we like about being english or british, if there are any. that might even help the prime minister, since so many people here are such big fans of his.

      anyway, i don’t see why telling the chinese to sod off isn’t a good idea. and if imperialism is one’s trump card, they can hardly be absolved from blame on that particular front - to say nothing for the fact that the sudanese government would have stopped killing darfuris long ago if the chinese had even coughed.

      ditto the russians.

      besides, any nation that is hard enough to capture jack bauer and haul him off to a prison camp bears watching in my estimation. i don’t even know if he gets out of it, although that’s because i haven’t seen series 6. however, if he doesn’t, it’s going to be very, very dull.

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    46. Sofia — on 7th September, 2007 at 10:10 am  

      It’s sofia…and thank you sunny..i’m sure i’m a blithering idiot who takes everything at face value, loves being patronised and then being given links because otherwise I wouldn’t know what the word patriot meant…TFI..people like you just like reading what they want without actually thinking because they’re too busy typing away and trying to sound intelligent.

    47. Sofia — on 7th September, 2007 at 10:15 am  

      oh and TFI can you please remind me when nuclear bombs were last used on civilians and by whom? It might help if you put up a link as I’m sure I can’t remember.
      As for being patronised, lol @ calling you…you’re pretty good at doing that on this blog…it provides great entertainment for me..thank you

    48. justforfun — on 7th September, 2007 at 11:09 am  

      And this from someone who takes the Koran at face value?

      Soso - was that intentional irony? I can’t stop laughing - I thought taking the Koran at face value was what you did.

      Best forget about what people use for bedtime reading and just judge them on their actions - it really is much simpler than trying to second guess people all the time.

      Justforfun

    49. Sofia — on 7th September, 2007 at 11:27 am  

      I’ve just re read what I wrote and I hope it does not sound like i’m having a go at banana or sunny…my patronised blind wrath is aimed at soso and TFI.

    50. Soso — on 11th September, 2007 at 2:55 am  

      Your blind wrath is uncontrollable and aimed at life itself, sofia.

    51. bananabrain — on 11th September, 2007 at 11:32 am  

      oh, kiss and make up, you two. don’t make me come down there.

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    52. Katy — on 11th September, 2007 at 1:45 pm  

      Sofia, take no notice of Soso. He has a problem with women generally. It’s not you, it’s him.

    53. Sofia — on 11th September, 2007 at 3:16 pm  

      lol @ incontrollable..yeh course it is..it’s taken me a whole hour to type this i’m shaking with so much anger…as for wrath at life…haha..that makes me laugh…you little drama queen…

    54. sonia — on 11th September, 2007 at 3:20 pm  

      good point vikrant - what kind of hackers hack along nationalist lines?!

    55. sonia — on 11th September, 2007 at 3:33 pm  

      28. Don - OFspy, heh :-)

    56. Federal Government and Politics — on 21st September, 2007 at 6:19 am  

      Federal Government and Politics…

      I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

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