EDL member charged with mosque vandalism


by Rumbold
19th August, 2011 at 10:54 am    

Another blow to the EDL’s purported claim to be only against Islamic extremism:

A member of the English Defence League will appear before a judge today accused of racially-motivated vandalism after a mosque was sprayed with graffiti.

Charlotte Davies, 19, of Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, was charged after an attack on the Nasir Mosque in Hartlepool and a shop and guest house in Shotton Colliery in November last year… Two men also accused of the attacks will enter pleas at a later date


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  1. sunny hundal

    Blogged: : EDL member charged with mosque vandalism http://t.co/Voi4tMq


  2. K S Dhindsa

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  5. Matthew d'Ancona

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  6. Sam Ambreen

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  7. Samuel Tarry

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  8. Will Porter

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  9. Justin B

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : EDL member charged with mosque vandalism http://t.co/kR8SB4W


  10. Deborah Ffrench

    Blogged: : EDL member charged with mosque vandalism http://t.co/Voi4tMq


  11. Aftab Baig

    @razanadim EDL attacks mosque
    http://t.co/pLLwqwO


  12. Jack Barker

    Blogged: : EDL member charged with mosque vandalism http://t.co/Voi4tMq




  1. Optimist — on 19th August, 2011 at 4:34 pm  

    She’s admitted it and will be sentenced soon, together with her fellow racist scum. Lets hope these are examplary sentences to deter other racists and fascists from attacking Mosques, Mandirs and innocent families.

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9206011.English_Defence_League_member_admits_Hartlepool_mosque_attack/

  2. Optimist — on 19th August, 2011 at 4:39 pm  

    However, the following one was NOT an examplary sentence. So, no doubt he will be back soon threatning to burn down other mosuques.

    “A MEMBER of a far-right group threatened to burn down mosques during a drunken rant in Halifax town centre, a court heard.

    Andrew Ossitt, 40, from Newquay, came to Halifax on April 2, along with around 60 other English Defence League protesters.”

    http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/local/we_ll_burn_your_mosques_taunts_of_hate_by_an_edl_supporter_1_3695043

  3. damon — on 19th August, 2011 at 5:43 pm  

    All this talk of the EDL and I can’t remember reading anything on the arrangement of their membership.
    Are they card carrying members? Is there a branch structure and internal discipline? Was this 19 year old a signed up member?

  4. John Lock — on 19th August, 2011 at 6:35 pm  

    “A member of the English Defence League will appear before a judge today accused of racially-motivated vandalism after a mosque was sprayed with graffiti.”

    Rubbish from the second word.

    The EDL have no members.

  5. jamal — on 19th August, 2011 at 6:42 pm  

    lol

    “The EDL have no members.”

    yes we are all imagining all those drunk racist pieces of garbage gathering in high streets up and down britain abusing women and children with racist insults.

    And it’s invisible fairies that are vandalising mosques i am sure.

  6. Don — on 19th August, 2011 at 7:44 pm  

    damon,

    The EDL certainly refers to it’s ‘members’ but what exactly that entails I couldn’t say. Apparently you go to their website, register your support and after that are regarded as a member.

    I didn’t go beyond the registration page so I don’t know if you are expected to pony up or if you get a card or secret de-coder ring.

    They divide themselves into ‘Divisions’ claiming membership of up to a couple of hundred per Division.

    Since they claim to have expelled the twit who was photographed giving the fascist salute then we can assume some level of internal discipline among the more active leadership level.

    I suspect they prefer to keep membership loose and vague, perhaps remembering the way the BNP membership list fiasco went.

  7. John Lock — on 19th August, 2011 at 8:51 pm  

    Don & jamal

    The EDL has no membership so you cannot possibly prove that they do.

    Meaning this story is just, well, a story.

  8. damon — on 19th August, 2011 at 10:15 pm  

    So their ”membership” is really just like a Facebook membership, or being a signed on member to their internet forum.

    I do think that the EDL is a pernicious influence in Britain, but I don’t think they advocate such attacks.
    With vandalism such as this, by a 19 year old, it’s hardly that newsworthy. It is unfortunately the sort of things that young people sometimes do.
    If you go do a quick google search you can find a couple of instances where it was christain chrurches targetted by young asian yobs.

    In Northern Ireland there are attacks on churches, Orange Halls and Gaelic association sports clubs every other week. It’s what happens in divided societies.
    The thing to do is to work against Britain being a divided society, and at the same time, not to get too alarmist about some small things that happen.

    Btw, it was great to hear someone got charged with mugging the Malaysian student in Barking. It’s a pity he couldn’t be tried in Malaysia.

  9. Don — on 19th August, 2011 at 10:41 pm  

    So their ”membership” is really just like a Facebook membership, or being a signed on member to their internet forum.

    Seems to be, as I say I didn’t go through the process. The site seems to be more of a clearing house for local groups.

    I’m not sure about these ‘Division’ members. Bristol Division apparently has 48 members. If that’s a FB page it’s fairly pathetic. I could create a page for an imaginary cat and get more members than that.

  10. Don — on 19th August, 2011 at 11:20 pm  

    John,

    The EDL has no membership so you cannot possibly prove that they do.

    That all hinges on definition. Obviously the EDL has some members. Somebody has to keep the website going, send out press releases, design the placards, distribute the pamphlets, organise transport. We see people calling themselves regional this and that.

    So unless they have out-sourced every aspect of their organistion they must have a core membership. Maybe they have found a legal loophole regarding ‘membership of an organisation’, but if you are at the meetings, if you are getting the memos, if you have the megaphone, you are a member in any meaningful sense.

    But I would imagine that that’s no more than a few dozen.

    The majority are perhaps better described as ‘supporters’. Although in practice the distinction would probably be lost on them.

    …you cannot possibly prove that they do.

    Other than the core people, possibly not. Some people in the ‘Divisions’ may refer to themselves as members, they may be counted as members by the organisation, they may jump on the coach and show up for the ruck. But legally they may not actually be members of an organisation.

    As I said, The EDL may have learned from the BNP. Central control of meatheads is an invitation to disaster. Two things you want when you set meatheads off – distance and deniability.

  11. Rumbold — on 20th August, 2011 at 9:47 am  

    Thanks Don for the explanation.

  12. Auberon — on 20th August, 2011 at 10:15 am  

    @John Lock

    The EDL has no membership so you cannot possibly prove that they do.

    Would you discount the members’ section of the EDL website as proof? I found it hard to get in there, but Google’s cache helps:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4KmtYPqkVe8J:englishdefenceleague.org/members/johnjones/divisions/+members+site:englishdefenceleague.org&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk

  13. John Lock — on 20th August, 2011 at 10:48 am  

    Don

    The EDL do not have members. I know you are desperate to try anything, go to any lengths, contort into shape to say they do. But the simple truth is that they do not.

    As far as I can see, they don’t even have the requisite constitution to allow for it in the future either.

    So, how many people have the EDL shot or killed, anyway, Don? You never did answer. Are they behind 80% of London’s gun crime? Do they shoot 5 year olds?

    Auberon

    This is ‘membership’ of an online forum grouped by division, not of any card-issuing, constitution-abiding, fee-paying organisation membership.

    The big giveaway of this should have been the ‘members’ names, such as:

    philosol, ozrika68, blueboy2

    The EDL does not have members. You can twist, you can turn, you can contort.

    But the EDL does not have members. Therefore the story above is rubbish from the second word.

  14. Jai — on 20th August, 2011 at 11:42 am  

    Don,

    Something to bear in mind is that the “membership/no membership” paradox is EDL leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon’s poor attempt at “plausible deniability”.

    He (falsely) believes that it enables him to credibly make public statements about the EDL having a “hundred thousand members” (something he has repeatedly claimed, most recently on Newsnight), and simultaneously disassociate himself from any actions undertaken by EDL members which publicly reflect badly on the organisation.

    It’s the same contorted logic and doublespeak he uses when he refers to the membership of EDL Facebook pages as allegedly indicating the large scale of support for the EDL across the UK, and simultaneously tries to disassociate himself from the huge level of deranged racism and religious bigotry which is endemic amongst the commenters involved.

  15. Jai — on 20th August, 2011 at 11:49 am  

    Rumbold,

    Another blow to the EDl’s purported claim to be only against Islamic extremism

    EDL leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon publicly dropped that claim earlier this year. During his interview on Newsnight in February, he repeatedly stated outright that he is vehemently hostile towards Islam full-stop, not just “Islamic extremism”. He made this explicitly clear again during his more recent interview on Newsnight (shortly after the massacre in Norway) and, on the same day, during a similar interview on CNN.

    URL links to full video footage of the most recent interviews were included in the following Pickled Politics article: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/13387

  16. Auberon — on 20th August, 2011 at 12:50 pm  

    @John Lock

    http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/archive/2011/05/11/News+-+UK/9020799.EDL_members_charged_with_criminal_damage/

    ”At the time of the alleged offences, all three people claimed membership of the English Defence League.”

    The EDL website has a members section. One such member, in the link I posted previous, is ‘John Jones’ who even has his own section – check the url!

    John Lock, you can twist, you can turn, you can contort. The EDL does have members. Bigoted criminals, in this case.

  17. John Lock — on 20th August, 2011 at 1:32 pm  

    Jai

    I saw the same interview as you, and Paxman quickly corrected him that the EDL has no members and Yaxley-Lennon immediately accepted that correction.

    Because the EDL doesn’t have any members.

    Nor does it have a members constitution. Nor any dues. Nor any issued cards.

    In short: It has no members.

    Why? Could be for the reason you listed. Or it could be because it is not a political party and therefore membership would be superfluous.

  18. John Lock — on 20th August, 2011 at 1:36 pm  

    Auberon

    ”At the time of the alleged offences, all three people claimed membership of the English Defence League.”

    And someone was clearly lying, either those charged or the police, because the EDL does not have members.

    I don’t know what you think you have proved here, but you will notice the operative word is ‘claimed’, not proved.

    We know why: The EDL does not have members therefore it can never be proved.

    Anyone can claim to be a member of anything. Either those charged or the police. It does not make it a reality.

    Your desperate canard has already been dealt with, you have proved nothing: Point us all to the EDL members constitution , due paying rates and application forms, please.

    That is proof.

    Otherwise accept that this is merely ‘membership’ of an online forum grouped by division, not of any card-issuing, constitution-abiding, fee-paying organisation membership.

    Most forums require ‘membership’ in order to post. It does not equate to membership of that organisation.

    The big giveaway of this should have been the ‘members’ names, such as:

    philosol, ozrika68, blueboy2, ak75001, leem, ladywiccan, flqyfak805

    And yes, it would appear, a more ‘recognisable’ username of ‘John Jones.’ But that is all it is. A username.

    Once again: The EDL do not have members. You can twist, you can turn, you can contort.

    But the EDL do not have members. The story above is rubbish from the second word.

  19. damon — on 20th August, 2011 at 1:50 pm  

    These EDL Facebook ”members” sound more and more like the postcode gangs and their ‘souljahs’.
    If you look up that Welsh EDL bloke giving a statment with his face covered on Youtube, it’s not that different a mentality to the gang kids.
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=edl+jeff+marsh

    Juvenile thrill seaking stuff. Violent and full of bragging. Maybe national service would do them some good after all.
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=croydon+dsn+smn&aq=f

  20. Jai — on 20th August, 2011 at 2:12 pm  

    I saw the same interview as you, and Paxman quickly corrected him that the EDL has no members and Yaxley-Lennon immediately accepted that correction.

    False on all counts. The actual conversation was as follows (transcript source: http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/tommy-robinson-the-jewish-division-and-the-newsnight-lies , full video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeKcniwh5io):

    SL: Who is Mr Hobson? Mr Hobson’s some random member out of a hundred thousand members.

    JP: Sorry, uh, I thought first of all there weren’t, that we don’t actually know how many mem…

    SL: A hundred thousand supporters on the in’ernet, Daryl Hobson’s…

    JP: You don’t have members, do you?

    SL: …one of ‘em, yeah. Yeah, no…

    JP: No, you have supporters.

    SL: …but more to the point, more to the point, this man…th…

    JP: This man who has been arrested…

    SL: Let’s not listen to what Darren… Daryl Hobson says, let’s listen to what And… the [stammers]

    Paxman’s sarcastic remarks do not constitute a “quick correction” in the manner implied in #17, and Yaxley-Lennon himself didn’t “immediately accept the correction” either.

    And, of course, Yaxley-Lennon lied about Daryl Hobson too, considering that Hobson is one of the EDL’s senior organisers. He has been photographed alongside Yaxley-Lennon and was even one of the recipients of Anders Breivik’s emailed manifesto.

  21. Matty — on 20th August, 2011 at 3:24 pm  

    The EDL’s own website has dozens of references to members. This is just from one page
    “The decision made by individuals within the EDL Jewish Division to ally themselves with the JTF (Jewish Task Force), an organisation whose leader, Victor Vancier, was imprisoned on terrorism charges, was made without the authority of the EDL Leadership”
    So there is a leadership at least. How is it elected?
    From same article
    “it is hugely disappointing that in the fallout of this sorry episode a small number of Jewish Division members saw fit to make personal attacks on members of the EDL Support Group”
    “even an EDL member who might happen to be incredibly critical of Israel”
    “No EDL member has ever been arrested for a Nazi salute whilst attending an EDL demo”
    “We educate our members”
    All a bit of a far cry from John Lock’s first claim that the EDL has no members.

  22. John Lock — on 20th August, 2011 at 4:25 pm  

    Jai

    Thanks for taking the time to transcribe that interview to prove that I was spot on.

    Paxman corrected Yaxley-Lennon on the membership item and Yaxley-Lennon immediately accepted it.

    Oddly though, you seemed to accept above that the EDL has no members, but now you seem to be saying they do?

    If this is the case it will be very easy to prove:

    Simply point us all to the EDL members constitution, due paying rates and application forms, please.

    That is proof. Good luck finding it though.

    And who is this Hobson again? A google search returned very little. He seems to be very insignificant. Can you prove actually that he is “one of the EDL’s senior organisers?”

    And as to receiving an email: What if Breivik had emailed you his manifesto? Would that prove anything other then that you just received an email from someone?

    And a photo? I think in common with all people that put themselves up on a public platform Yaxley-Lennon poses for many, many pictures with many, many people and I doubt very much that the names are ever asked for.

    So all you have is a photo of Yaxley-Lennon standing next to someone who received an email.

    And this is proof of what, exactly?

  23. John Lock — on 20th August, 2011 at 4:26 pm  

    Matty

    Same to you: Simply point us all to the EDL members constitution , due paying rates and application forms, please.

    That is proof. The rest is desperation.

  24. Sarah AB — on 20th August, 2011 at 8:39 pm  

    @John Lock – so (membership/EDL aside) what do you think of the acts of vandalism?

  25. John Lock — on 20th August, 2011 at 10:20 pm  

    I condemn all acts of vandalism.

    How about you, Sarah AB?

    Care to condemn these below, while we are in a condemning session?

    More vandalism

    More vandalism

    More vandalism

    More vandalism

  26. Sarah AB — on 20th August, 2011 at 10:40 pm  

    Yes of course.

  27. 78 — on 21st August, 2011 at 6:24 am  

    They have a membership of losers bigging up bigoted Guardian commentisfree comments (as well as other websites criticizing them) from fellow members.

  28. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 22nd August, 2011 at 2:59 am  

    Nice work Jai.

  29. John Lock — on 22nd August, 2011 at 7:42 pm  

    DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells

    “Nice work Jai”

    Erm, yes. Well done for finding a picture of a man stood next to another man who received an email.

  30. Rumbold — on 22nd August, 2011 at 7:47 pm  

    Jai:

    Yes, the EDL’s leader did say that, as you rightly point out, but I get the impression that from some discussions many people are trying to present the EDL as a bulwark against extremist Islam.

  31. Hugh — on 22nd August, 2011 at 8:18 pm  

    Am no EDL supporter but was suprised to read the reported statement of Tommy Robinson about Tariq Jahan- http://www.bryanappleyard.com/2011/08/the-death-of-haroon-jahan/

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