Rupert Murdoch: papal knight


by Rumbold
12th July, 2011 at 8:58 am    

Amid the News International scandal, details have remerged about the papal knighthood given to Rupert Murdoch back in 1998 after a donation to a Catholic organisation. Now debate is raging over whether to strip him of it:

In 1998 Rupert Murdoch was made a Knight Commander of St Gregory. He had apparently been recommended for the honour by Cardinal Roger Mahony, after giving money to a Church education fund. A year later he donated $10 million to help build Los Angeles Catholic cathedral.

Just another group/institution that lined up to pay homage to Rupert Murdoch.

(Via Richard Bartholomew)


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  1. sunny hundal

    Blogged: : Rupert Murdoch: papal knight http://bit.ly/oLh7WC


  2. Alex Evans

    Blogged: : Rupert Murdoch: papal knight http://bit.ly/oLh7WC


  3. Hope without God

    Remember #Murdoch's malign influence over press and politics also extends to religion, where he's been honoured http://t.co/PQ1JHoJ #DCMS


  4. ajit8

    Remember #Murdoch's malign influence over press and politics also extends to religion, where he's been honoured http://t.co/PQ1JHoJ #DCMS


  5. Gael

    Remember #Murdoch's malign influence over press and politics also extends to religion, where he's been honoured http://t.co/PQ1JHoJ #DCMS


  6. weissnicht

    Remember #Murdoch's malign influence over press and politics also extends to religion, where he's been honoured http://t.co/PQ1JHoJ #DCMS


  7. weissnicht

    Pickled Politics » Rupert #Murdoch: papal knight http://t.co/7Z7aAxm #catholicchurch #mccann #pope


  8. Haleys Comet

    RT @sunny_hundal: Rupert Murdoch: papal knight http://t.co/TCnqZma


  9. Michelle Inns

    Remember #Murdoch's malign influence over press and politics also extends to religion, where he's been honoured http://t.co/PQ1JHoJ #DCMS


  10. nobby-Lobby

    Remember #Murdoch's malign influence over press and politics also extends to religion, where he's been honoured http://t.co/PQ1JHoJ #DCMS


  11. sylvia rzeminski

    Remember #Murdoch's malign influence over press and politics also extends to religion, where he's been honoured http://t.co/PQ1JHoJ #DCMS




  1. Optimist — on 12th July, 2011 at 12:22 pm  

    If this scandal had not blown up into Murdoch’s face because his hired hacks had sunk so low, he might even have been given some sort of honorary knighthood by David Cameron, himself.

    It’s a bit rich for Gordon Brown to complain now when he attended the wedding of Rebekah Brooks and had been seen groveling at many lavish parties thrown by the Godfather himself.

    Before him, Blair could not wait to get into Murdoch’s pockets while shooing away the trade union leaders. And the ‘little boy’ Ed, not wanting to be left behind in his pursuit to be seen with the rich and the famous while telling their victims, especially the public sector workers, that they should not be rocking the boat, only two weeks ago attended the NI’s summer party. The Tories, as usual, have been only far worse.

    Due to politicians cowardice and police corruption, Murdoch’s rightwing ‘rags’ have been allowed to spew away, daily, anti working class, racist and sexist rubbish, while he has been allowed to evade paying proper taxes.

    He pays little tax in the US, and paid no tax at all in the UK in the 1990s, running up a tax bill of £350 million, while his papers have been the most rabid defenders of the banking sector and were instrumental in shifting the entire public debate away from bank reform and onto the alleged over spending of the public sector.

  2. Kismet Hardy — on 12th July, 2011 at 1:30 pm  

    Who’d have thunk having shitloads of money and power could’ve bought you favours with the church and politicians?

  3. Refresh — on 12th July, 2011 at 1:57 pm  

    Optimist,

    The time to address the issues you raise will come. I for one believe the Chilcott enquiry should have and should summon Rupert Murdoch to understand his role in taking this country to war.

  4. Optimist — on 12th July, 2011 at 2:55 pm  

    Refresh-

    Good point – and the hacks were cheering ‘our boys’ on only to hack into thier relatives phones when some of them died.

  5. Don — on 12th July, 2011 at 7:06 pm  

    Kismet,

    Money and power are not enough to secure a papal knighthood. You must also be of ‘unblemished character’.

    Y’know, like Kurt Waldheim.

  6. douglas clark — on 12th July, 2011 at 8:10 pm  

    I take Optimists point. How come so many politicians felt obligated to attend Ruperts wee soirée’s? Douglas Alexander, who is no major politician remained unembarrassed on Question Time when it was pointed out that even he had been at a Murdoch banquet within the previous few weeks.

    These folk lack shame.

  7. Shamit — on 12th July, 2011 at 9:59 pm  

    Rupert Murdoch and News Corporation are not “fit or proper” to own any media outlets and that includes blogs let alone TV or newspapers.

    They are vile and consider themselves above the law and lack common human decency.

    But we should all take a look at the mirror because we the Brits created this situation by buying shit and having a massive apetite for gossip and who slept with who information.

    We like nothing more when the tabloids topple someone from their pedestals – none of us care whether the information was in public interest or not.

    Despite all the bruha ha ha, I still fail to see why Ryan Giggs’ infidelities are front page news and not Adam Boulton’s or John Simpson – their infidelities were as blatant as many others. And there are many examples -

    On the political front, Gordon Brown makes me laugh. Why the fuck would you go to someone’s wedding who has messed with your child? Why, the most powerful Chancellor not say something and stand up for his principles and called a press conference and slammed Brooks?

    No because he and his gang of thugs (includes Tom Watson, Ed Balls, Ed Miliband and a few others) needed Brooks’ help to topple an elected Prime Minister. And now they question Cameron’s judgement – bloody hilarious. None of the one’s mentioned above are honourable men by a distance and that includes Gordon Brown.

    And many of them were sipping Murdoch’s champagne couple of weeks ago including clean boy Miliband – the one who in 2005 was plotting against a sitting Prime Minister of his own party while terrorists were attacking and the one who backstabbed his brother. Nice honourable men.

    In recent times, the only politician who slammed the media publicly in Britain was a Prime Minister who called them a “Feral beast” and said if they did not watch it – their doom was around the corner. Oops that was Blair.

    Its a plague on all their houses as far as political parties go. Nick, the stupid Clegg, decided he is going to pay homage to Arianne Huffington – saying the Huffington Post was needed. For Fuck’s sake, there are great sites and publications in Britain who do not need celebrity tattle tale to get readership.

    Funny I think the public gets it right – in yesterday’s poll despite all the pundits saying Ed Miliband is doing a great job – it says that 27% of the public trusts Cameron to sort this mess out while only 16% believe Miliband can do so.

    Didn’t Miliband’s Chief of Comms write to Shadow Cabinet asking them to refrain from attacking News International.

    As I said plague on all their houses. But the biggest responsibility lies with the people who continue to buy Murdoch’s shit.

  8. joe — on 12th July, 2011 at 10:08 pm  

    In recent times, the only politician who slammed the media publicly in Britain was a Prime Minister who called them a “Feral beast” and said if they did not watch it – their doom was around the corner. Oops that was Blair.

    Really? Blair ‘tried’ to hush up hacking scandal.

  9. Shamit — on 12th July, 2011 at 10:13 pm  

    Yeah Joe – that’s brilliant.

    I guess you did not see the CNN interview
    http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/11/former-prime-minister-tony-blair-talks-about-british-tabloid-scandal/

    Or are you asking us to trust another tabloid which is also very partisan. Do you work for Ed Miliband?

  10. joe — on 12th July, 2011 at 10:18 pm  

    In recent times, the only politician who slammed the media publicly in Britain was a Prime Minister who called them a “Feral beast” and said if they did not watch it – their doom was around the corner. Oops that was Blair.

    Ooops… that was how Murdoch had a hotline to Tony Blair in the run-up to Iraq war

  11. Shamit — on 12th July, 2011 at 10:34 pm  

    Fine point taken – okay but Blair is politically history.

    And it says a lot when from my lengthy comment you pick up the Blair point.

    The point is could you explain to me why Brown would attend someone’s wedding who has attacked his own child? Or have her for sleepover at Chequers?

    And are the journalists or media magnates any more dodgy than members of the Parliament of the Labour Party meeting in a London room to depose an elected Prime Minister of their own party while terrorists attempted a 7/7 re-run on 21 July. I find both activites well dodgy.

    Why was Miliband drinking Murdoch’s champagne two weeks ago and he met him and he did not question him about the phone hacking? Neither did anyone of his Shadow Cabinet members who were present.

    I am not absolving David Cameron or the Tories. They have been equally in bed with the Murdoch’s – as I said its a plague on all their houses.

    Lib Dems actually can claim to be clean but now Calamity Clegg has pledged his allegiance to Arianne Huffington. Wtf?

  12. Shamit — on 12th July, 2011 at 10:44 pm  

    There is a bigger issue also which has come out.

    I have always been against the extraordinary powers an unelected bureaucrat has in our system – the Cabinet Secretary. How can a bureaucrat override a Prime Minister’s wish to hold a judicial inquiry?

    I am glad that Chris Bryant MP is asking for the actual advice to be made public. It is really bizzare that the Cabinet Secretary wields so much power.

    This system needs to change – powers of the Cabinet Secretary should be reduced and the system needs to recognise that it the office exists to support the elected Prime Minister and Cabinet and not to control it.

  13. douglas clark — on 12th July, 2011 at 10:44 pm  

    I love you guys.

    Here is the point:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw7gNf_9njs

  14. Refresh — on 13th July, 2011 at 1:02 am  

    Lets hope Ed Milliband, after this success, will now go back a step and rally the country and sort out the bankers. Something else Cameron and Osborne shoved under the carpet, but the mound is still showing.

    Then there are the utility companies.

  15. Refresh — on 13th July, 2011 at 1:10 am  

    Then back to Rupert Murdoch’s 39.1% stake in BSpyB. Not least because of their broadband business, which would give them full hacking access to everything that goes in and out of each of their customers’ computers.

    And across the water, its building up to a very close look at Fox. Lets hope it gets referred to the FCC.

  16. damon — on 13th July, 2011 at 1:48 am  

    Shamit @7. I was agreeing with you till you said this:

    As I said plague on all their houses. But the biggest responsibility lies with the people who continue to buy Murdoch’s shit.

    No knocking of Sun readers I say. It’s gone on for years and it’s always been snobby. I don’t care for The Sun, and found the NoW boring so never read it, but I know people who did, and they aren’t all dupes and idiots. They don’t actually take it very seriously.

  17. Kulvinder — on 13th July, 2011 at 3:52 am  

    This is wholly unfair and should have nothing to do with any discussion on the Murdochs.

    But they freak me the fuck out with the accents!

    They totally discombobulate me. We’ve gotten used to mid-atlantic accents ala Gillian Anderson and Loyd Grossman but the Murdochs have trans-hemispheric accents and mannerisms! Im trying to think how they sound and the closest i can get is:

    Imagine if australians used a completely different language (ie not english). Then an aussie went to live in america to *learn* english before moving to the uk to work…its just freaky.

    Also James Murdoch shaves his sideburns far to high up his face.

    Boycott the Sun.

  18. Wibble — on 13th July, 2011 at 9:57 am  

    “No knocking of Sun readers I say. It’s gone on for years and it’s always been snobby.”

    I don’t see folks here doing that here, which is in contrast with your sneering reverse snobbery.

  19. ukliberty — on 13th July, 2011 at 11:01 am  

    I have always been against the extraordinary powers an unelected bureaucrat has in our system – the Cabinet Secretary. How can a bureaucrat override a Prime Minister’s wish to hold a judicial inquiry?

    He can’t override the PM.

    I am glad that Chris Bryant MP is asking for the actual advice to be made public. It is really bizzare that the Cabinet Secretary wields so much power.

    This system needs to change – powers of the Cabinet Secretary should be reduced and the system needs to recognise that it the office exists to support the elected Prime Minister and Cabinet and not to control it.

    The Cabinet Secretary doesn’t control the PM and Cabinet.

  20. Shamit — on 13th July, 2011 at 11:25 am  

    UK liberty –

    Technically I do not disagree but the Cabinet Secretary is way too powerful in this system and that should change.

  21. ukliberty — on 13th July, 2011 at 11:45 am  

    Shamit,

    Technically I do not disagree but the Cabinet Secretary is way too powerful in this system and that should change.

    What power does he have?

  22. Shamit — on 13th July, 2011 at 12:07 pm  

    For starters the Cabinet Secretary is the only person in the United Kingdom to view all previous government papers even if it is regarding national security. Not even Prime Minister is afforded such privilege – which in a democracy I think is wrong.

    And especially in a coalition government, where there are more committees etc etc, the powers of the mandarins are far too much.

    I prefer the American system where career bureaucrats do not come near policy making positions. And government’s should be able to make more lateral appointments from outside civil service.

  23. damon — on 13th July, 2011 at 12:08 pm  

    I don’t see folks here doing that here, which is in contrast with your sneering reverse snobbery.

    That’s a good way of making debate difficult. I think that there is a great deal of horror in liberal circles about ”Sun readers” and how led by the nose they are. Someone on Sunny’s other site just said this:

    Given your average Sun buyer is a small minded bigot, I doubt too many of the c***s that buy it are interested in whether or not they hacked into Brown’s records or not.

    http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/07/13/could-the-suns-front-page-today-backfire/

    Criminality has to be prosecuted as far as phone hacking and bribing police is concerned, but crowing about bringing down the NoW is a bit SWP-like IMO.

    As for Murdoch becomeing a papal knight.
    Who cares? Religions can do what every they want.
    I was reading the free Irish catholic paper the other day. They had an article about Cameron Diaz and her lifestyle of moving from one relationship to another and not having children. They said this was a selfish and destructive lifestyle …. so why should anyone care what they say or do? Any more than the Freemasons or the Moonies.

  24. joe90 — on 14th July, 2011 at 12:45 am  

    The way the system works news international will get away with it just like the bankers have. Calls for justice is wishful thinking, that’s why that propaganda king murdoch and his cronies still have smiles on their faces!

  25. Matthew Steeples — on 15th July, 2011 at 12:05 am  

    The empty vessels make the loudest sound now. With Lord Black, Pandora Maxwell and Chris Bryant on his back, Rupert Murdoch will finally get some sympathy: http://dasteepsspeaks.blogspot.com/2011/07/empty-vessel-makes-loudest-sound.html

  26. Refresh — on 17th July, 2011 at 3:20 pm  

    Glad to see Ed Milliband pursuing my theme. His interview in today’s Observer shows he is finally connecting with the real challenge this country faces.

    The unravelling of the Thatcher/Blair years starts here. And I am certain the membership of the Labour Party will not think twice about wiping out any memory of Blair, except as the tory cuckoo that nestled amongst them.

    Shamit, Blair is history. But its his legacy that needs to be weeded out. That will have to include the lobby industry.

    Ed Milliband will, if he does not falter, prove to be the real leader of the coalition that the country needs.

  27. Refresh — on 18th July, 2011 at 12:24 am  

    Back to my point about Broadband from BSpyB #15, this from across the Atlantic:

    ‘Klein, a former justice department attorney and chancellor of the New York City school system, joined the board recently to focus on its digital learning business. The New York Daily News reports that a business News Corp acquired just after Klein joined the board is now facing scrutiny, since it deals with schoolchildren’s personal data. New York state awarded Wireless Generation a no-bid, $27m contract. Now parents are questioning whether News Corp should have such access.’

    ‘The questions hanging over Murdoch, USA’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/17/murdoch-phone-hacking-america-news-corp

  28. Shamit — on 18th July, 2011 at 12:56 pm  

    Refresh -

    The pundits are wrong. Ed Miliband is no knight in shining armour on this or any other issue.

    But I have come to expect political naivety from you and this comes as no surprise.

    Ed Miliband along with some of his key Shadow Cabinet Members were sipping Murdoch’s champagne barely three weeks ago. And there was no standing up for the rights of privacy.

    Ed Miliband’s Comms Director – Tom Baldwin – issued a memo recently to Shadow Cabinet Ministers not to attack News International and especially the BSkyB deal. Or didn’t you read about that?

    Third, the Prime Minister’s judgement must be questioned but so should the leader of the Opposition’s. The appointment of Mr. Baldwin reflects bad judgement as well – his name is still tainted and has not been cleared.

    Fourth and to me more important, I have little doubt that Mr. Murdoch and his clan are NOT fit to own publications. Let me ask you a question, dear Refresh, would you consider a person fit to be Prime Minister, if he was in a room conspiring to get rid of the elected Prime Minister barely 4 months in his Parliamentary career when terrorists were trying a re-run of 7/7? I think not.

    Fifth, I along with many question his judgement on supporting Gordon brown who once again demonstrated in the House of Commons that he is an embarrassment for the Labour party and our democracy. Mr. Miliband is showing some very similar Brwonish traits. It’s not my fault GUV.

    Mr. Brown accused Rebekah Brooks of bullying him about publishing his son’s illness but he went to Ms. Brooks’ wedding and called her for a sleepover in Chequers. I’m a parent and I find that inconceivable and revolting. I am sure you do too.

    And Mr. Miliband and Mr. Balls went on a 10 year long effort to tell us that Mr. Brown would be better for the party and the country. Wrong on both counts and they only supported him for their own self interests not of the people or the party. That’s fit and correct to be Prime Minister – wow the hypocricy has no limits.

    So please do not believe what the pundits or the Guardian suggests. Guardian told people to vote for Lib. Dems and they lost seats and votes – so them saying that this is a major Ed Miliband victory.

    People don’t really see it that way – and focus groups of all parties have said that. Interestingly, two people who usually big up Ed Miliband are somehow not in the room – Sunny Hundal and Mehdi Hasan. Both have attacked the Tories but did not gloat over Ed Miliband’s victory. That should tell you something.

    Cameron lost a lot of ground but this is not going to claim Cameron’s head and this would be a one month story – With Euro almost going kaput a bigger story would soon push this back to middle pages and out of people’s minds.

    People can’t be bothered about this when pay raise is half that of inflation – its the economy stupid. And I suspect debt and deficit would be key headlines for the next few months and on that Cameron is miles ahead.

    That’s what matters. Miliband saved his job but keys to No. 10 is not any closer. But what do I know – however, I would like to hear some responses on the points I raised to improve my political education.

  29. douglas clark — on 18th July, 2011 at 1:10 pm  

    Shamit @ 28,

    Mr. Brown accused Rebekah Brooks of bullying him about publishing his son’s illness but he went to Ms. Brooks’ wedding and called her for a fucking sleepover.

    Yup.

    What sort of craven East Fife supporter, what sort of jaw waggling tit, what sort of lover of the irn bru annointed temptress would do a thing like that?

    I am sure I heard it wrong. Rebekka are you bekka are you well, well, well?

    Has the poor dear been arrested or summat?

    Surely not.

  30. Shamit — on 18th July, 2011 at 1:56 pm  

    latest quick poll on Sky news:

    Has Ed Miliband impressed as a leader?

    32% Yes

    66% NO.

    Damn public agrees with me – how could that be possible?

  31. Refresh — on 18th July, 2011 at 3:29 pm  

    I am sure Gordon Brown will forever regret his absolute failure to grasp the opportunity he had. He should have gone straight into a general election, he should not have magically appeared visiting the troops in Iraq. He should have recognised why the public turned against Blair. And he should have noted the general electoral malaise which saw turnout reduce year on year.

    He was clearly not the man to get the country out of the stranglehold of the Murdoch media. And the grip Murdoch had is so readily demonstrated by Gordon Brown’s own actions. Turning up at Rebekah Brooks’ wedding. And Murdoch’s hubris in suggesting that he thought ‘the Browns’ were his friends’.

    That comment alone says it all. And no doubt Camerons were his friends too.

    And I don’t believe Ed Milliband was ready for this role either. Except he had no choice, in the end, but to pursue Murdoch. And I believe that is the hook that’s allowed him to develop the theme he talked about in the Observer and in today’s speech.

    Milliband should not focus on seeking the highest office in the land, but work on steering the country out of the hands of the Murdoch,Cameron,The City nexus. From across the benches.

    And then let the country decide, whose side he is on.

    Shamit,

    It is not about Ed Milliband. That view is only taken by party politicos, and the Westminster hacks.

    For me it is about whether my vote is worth the same as anyone else’s. Whether money can buy influence over and above that conferred through a cross on a piece of paper.

    On a party political level, the real fireworks will be seen within the parties when politicians are found to have been complicit in taking out their rivals by joining forces with Murdoch.

  32. Kismet Hardy — on 18th July, 2011 at 3:38 pm  

    Has Cheryl got back with Ashley? Has he outed himself as a loverat once again proving leopards never change their spots? Now I’ll never know. The nespapers will now be full of news, where reporters have to investigate and ask questions, instead of what it should be – someone said or did something they shouldn’t have, and we get to know all about it. Poor show all of you.

    First you want newspapers to carry news, next you’ll be demanding the Sunday Sport fills its paper with just sport.

  33. Shamit — on 18th July, 2011 at 4:51 pm  

    Refresh -

    “On a party political level, the real fireworks will be seen within the parties when politicians are found to have been complicit in taking out their rivals by joining forces with Murdoch.”

    Yout hit the nail on the world – the Brown cabal did their very best including Balls, Miliband and others colluded with News International and the Tom Watson coup story and others to get rid of Blair.

    That’s why despite the bullying Gordon went to Her wedding and invited her for a sleepover.

    Do you think if Murdoch is not fit to run any media companies in the UK a politician who puts self-interest and his boss’ personal interest ahead of the country’s even during terrorist attacks – is he fit to lead the country?

  34. Refresh — on 18th July, 2011 at 5:00 pm  

    ‘Yout hit the nail on the world – the Brown cabal did their very best including Balls, Miliband and others colluded with News International and the Tom Watson coup story and others to get rid of Blair.’

    On the contrary I think it was Blair that worked to ensure Brown did not succeed him. Bush made it clear Brown was not their choice, that was why Blair hung on hoping to develop ‘alternative’ talent – one David Milliband.

  35. Refresh — on 18th July, 2011 at 5:08 pm  

    ‘Do you think if Murdoch is not fit to run any media companies in the UK a politician who puts self-interest and his boss’ personal interest ahead of the country’s even during terrorist attacks – is he fit to lead the country?’

    I don’t believe there is anyone high profile who fits the bill. That is not to say Ed Milliband couldn’t be the one. But he has to deliver on certain things (in addition to Murdoch):

    1. The Bankers
    2. Tax Evasion
    3. Utilities
    4. Replace a Spiv economy with a real one

    And a full explanation as to why it was and is absolutely necessary to sustain the public sector.

  36. Wibble — on 18th July, 2011 at 5:16 pm  

    Is this for real? Brown etc. colluded with NI to get rid of Blair. Being a “traitor” didn’t do Ken Clarke much harm.

    As for Brown’s recent appearances, did he actually say he was bullied? His recent intervention makes sense if he recently found out now that the info was obtained by underhand means (which is what the Guardian incorrectly told him).

    Despite all the flaws of PM Brown, and relentless press attacks, Cameron (heir to Blair) still could not get an overall majority.

    One other comment I heard regarding Murdoch press – its Eurosceptic line supposedly stopped Blair from trying to take GB into the Euro or perhaps it was Gordon Brown who didn’t want the Euro either.

  37. Shamit — on 18th July, 2011 at 5:30 pm  

    Wibble -

    Oh yes in his interview with the BBC and Sky – he vent out about how he was bullied by Rebekah Brooks which he could have stood up to.

    No he did not – he cooperated with them and then went to brooks wedding and his wife, the mother, invited Ms. Brooks for a sleepover in Chequers.

    So He is an embarrassment and very economical with the truth and to be honest, his “its not my fault Guv” shows his true character.

    Refresh -

    The whole world knows the story – if you want to reinvent you can – and by the way Blair won a third time. So GB being thwarted as if he had the god given right to succeed (even though Miliband and Balls believed it – not for ideological reasons but for their own self interest) had ruined the government’s reform agenda which was actually delivering.

    But ideology and personal ambition always overrules country or party interests in the Brown cabal – and Mr. Miliband was a paid up member of that one. One of the most thuggish brutish loafish inept political group – whose only political success undermining a Labour Prime Minister and his government through a 10 year long coup.
    **************************

    But Miliband has just gone for the jugular and wants the PM to resign – not a chance but tomorrow would be a fun day.

    But the hypocricy of it all makes me laugh and especially when Westmister and pundits think this is a really big deal in people’s lives – Not.

  38. Refresh — on 18th July, 2011 at 5:55 pm  

    Shamit,

    Blair’s third win does not give him the credibility he craves. The electorate was put in a very difficult position, it did not want the Tories back. Scots were best placed, they found an alternative in the SNP. And to some extent the same applied to Wales.

    England did not have that luxury.

    In a nutshell, the country did not know how to get rid of Blair without letting in the Tories. So lets not hear any more of this third win.

  39. Refresh — on 18th July, 2011 at 6:02 pm  

    An excellent piece from Greenslade, calling on LibDems to deliver the final blow. Better still to back a vote of confidence motion from Labour.

    Yes I agree with him. This is the moment. From hereon LibDems will begin to become tarnished.

    ‘Phone hacking: Nick Clegg must lead the Lib Dems against David Cameron
    The prime minister is damaged goods – by ousting him from power the Lib Dems could win back their credibility and support’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/18/phone-hacking-nick-clegg-lib-dems-david-cameron

  40. Wibble — on 18th July, 2011 at 6:09 pm  

    “Blair’s third win does not give him the credibility he craves.”

    Sorry, but it does. The Tories are a far better alternative than UKIP, English Democrats and the other assorted nasties to the right of English politics.

    Blair didn’t help himself by announing that he’d step down.

  41. Kismet Hardy — on 18th July, 2011 at 6:29 pm  
  42. Shamit — on 18th July, 2011 at 7:38 pm  

    Cameron is not going anywhere – and Clegg has also made it clear that the Prime Minister would continue and people should keep it in perspective.

    But again Refresh fails to answer the most pertinent point – someone who was too busy plotting to overthrow an elected Prime Minister of his own party on a day when terrorists were attacking London – is he fit to lead the country?

    I still haven’t got an answer despite some real spin – and now the elctorate does not matter because Brown and Miliband said so. Don’t claim to be a Miliband supporter Refresh – you would cost him a lot of independent votes.

  43. Refresh — on 18th July, 2011 at 10:26 pm  

    ‘Cameron is not going anywhere’

    I am not so sure, nor are some key members of his party.

    The answer to your ‘pertinent’ question is that they were wrong, wrong to have not acted to have Blair removed a lot sooner. That plotting should have started immediately after the decision to invade Iraq.

    As for spin, there is none required. As far as I am concerned Milliband is on probation. He knows what he needs to do.

    What I don’t understand is your infatuation with Blair and his then heir apparent.

  44. Shamit — on 18th July, 2011 at 11:04 pm  

    Refresh,

    I can guarantee you that Cameron is not going anywhere – and this is the latest poll from Guardian/ICM
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jul/18/phone-hacking-guardian-icm-poll

    And as far as your stupid rant about Brown and his cabal should have plotted sooner – I always knew you were part of the left which lacks objectivity and gets caught up in the cul-de-sac of defunct ideology and personal ambition.

    You and Brown can live in the fantasy world but the reality is far different. Btw, they were plotting from 1994 and took them 13 years to get rid of Blair and that was their one and only achievement.

    I like Blair and I like Cameron – because they can get things done and don’t give too much weight on ideology.

    I agree with Blair that left and right politics is dead but that will sure go over your head – not because you do not understand but because you do not wish to understand.

    That is why you fail to condemn Hamas or make comments like whichever countries have become friends of the US have become a failed state. When I pointed out Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, India and Europe – you did not come back.

    So your naivity and lack of objectivity is not surprising.

    But Cameron is not going anywhere oh now Harman has just confirmed that Labour is not calling for the PM to go – what happened old sage?

    Come on lets have some trademark Bennite bollocks typical of Refresh.

    And Blair was one of the better Prime Ministers this country had – and the country elected him thrice.

    Brown went to the country once and got rejected. Need I say more – get some sleep old boy.

  45. douglas clark — on 18th July, 2011 at 11:13 pm  

    Refresh,

    You could almost see the point about Blair. A moderniser (is that a word?) a person for the new millenia or summat.

    Brown on the other hand would have taken us back to socialist feudalism as soon as looked at us. He was a bit like Earl:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw7gNf_9njs

    Well, you’ve seen that before….

    Blair is hateful for Iraq, I think. His disgusting doggy behaviour, rolling onto his back and showing his tummy to our real master G W Bush was a surrender too far for most of us. Brown, well I have never really seen the point of him. Tories are just as bad.

  46. Refresh — on 19th July, 2011 at 12:02 am  

    ‘Harman has just confirmed that Labour is not calling for the PM to go’

    Yes I saw that. Something is afoot.I expected the LibDems to make the running on that one.

    I don’t think a list to counter yours would take us any further forward. We are just not going to agree. And you can write longer responses (with italics and block). And I got bored.

  47. Refresh — on 19th July, 2011 at 12:08 am  

    Douglas Clark,

    ‘Blair is hateful for Iraq, I think. His disgusting doggy behaviour, rolling onto his back and showing his tummy to our real master G W Bush was a surrender too far for most of us.’

    Absolutely agree.

    Brown’s usefulness disappeared almost immediately after his spinning over Iraq, even though he had Obama to point to who’d won on the basis of opposition to the Iraq war.

  48. Shamit — on 19th July, 2011 at 8:45 am  

    “Yes I saw that. Something is afoot.I expected the LibDems to make the running on that one.”

    politically naive and very much wishful thnking on part of the loony left (which you are albeit with a religious perspective – how do you reconcile that I don’t know) would have thought so.

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