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Muslims march against Al-Qaeda

Posted By Al-Hack On 7th November, 2005 @ 8:03 pm In Religion, The World | Comments Disabled

Yeah, you read that right baby. Today’s [1] Lebanese Star reports that it was in response to Al-Qaeda’s actions in Iraq.

Thousands marched through Morocco’s biggest city on Sunday to protest Al-Qaeda’s decision to kill two Moroccan hostages in Iraq. Holding banners and chanting “Muslims are brothers. A Muslim does not kill his brother” and “‘Yes’ to freedom, ‘No’ to terrorism and barbarity,” the protesters marched through Casablanca, a city of six million and Morocco’s financial capital.

Will Fox News report that I wonder? Any Americans killed? No. So probably not then.

Morocco’s influential organization of Islamic scholars, known as the High Council of the Ulema and the Councils of Ulema in the Moroccan Kingdom, said Al-Qaeda members in Iraq will suffer the “horrors of hell” if they kill the Moroccan hostages and the victims will die as martyrs. It dismissed Al-Qaeda’s argument that its verdict to kill the two embassy employees was “God’s judgment.”
….
Organizers and local government officials said more than 150,000 people took part in the peaceful march while reporters said the anti-Al-Qaeda protesters numbered more than 10,000.

Moroccan media, trade unions, human rights activists and state officials have issued appeals to save the two men’s lives and a mass demonstration is planned in Casablanca on Sunday.

They dismissed Al-Qaeda’s piss-poor excuse! I bet that riled up Ol’ Bin Laden.

Al-Jazeera also covered [2] the rally. The [3] Gateway Pundit has more. Via [4] The English Guy.


Comments Disabled To "Muslims march against Al-Qaeda"

#1 Comment By Unity On 7th November, 2005 @ 8:10 pm

On an obliquely related note you may find this of interest - [5] http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.226404219&par= - Italian TV is to run a documentary claiming the US used chemical weapons in the assault on Fallujah.

#2 Comment By Steve M On 7th November, 2005 @ 8:41 pm

My bet is that the Moroccan will receive extensive coverage in the Media here and also on Fox. I hope so anyway.

#3 Comment By j0nz On 7th November, 2005 @ 9:33 pm

This is fantastic news…

The only thing that slightly irritates me is that the reason they say they are protesting is because the hostages are Muslim; “Muslims are brothers. A Muslim does not kill his brother” i.e. not on the humanitarian basis that killing of hostages is wrong!!

Having said that this is a REAL start for reformation, for standing up for human rights in the quagmire that is todays’s Islamic theology. Good for Morroco.

#4 Comment By jamal On 7th November, 2005 @ 9:38 pm

Im not surprised at this due to the amount of innocent people in that get killed by Al Qaeda.

BTW, that site by ‘The English Guy’ is quite prejudiced, as is he!

#5 Comment By Steve M On 7th November, 2005 @ 11:09 pm

I’ve just watched the BBC news and the first half of Newsnight and there was no mention at all - very disappointing.

On Newsnight there was Kirsty Wark pursuing her own agenda on the French riots, as usual, but no word on Morocco.

#6 Comment By The Land of Oz On 7th November, 2005 @ 11:21 pm

I saw a report on the protest marches on SBS (Australia’s publicly funded ‘ethnic’ channel) World News. SBS World News often report on things that the mainstream media here do not.

I wonder whether the protests were sparked by self-interest (i.e. the lives of the Moroccan’s involved) or a true feeling of outrage at the actions of Al-Qaeda

#7 Trackback By Flopping Aces On 7th November, 2005 @ 11:52 pm

Moroccan’s vs. Al-Qaeda

This should be printed all over the MSM, but as you can guess, it won’t be: (h/t Gateway Pundit)

Thousands marched through Morocco’s biggest city on Sunday to protest Al-Qaeda’s decision to kill two Moroccan hostages in Iraq. Ho…

#8 Pingback By Flopping Aces On 7th November, 2005 @ 11:57 pm

[…] In The Bullpen Dr. Sanity CHT Community Blog Pickled Politics The Jawa Report Filed in: War On Terror | No Comments » […]

#9 Comment By Bikhair On 8th November, 2005 @ 1:55 am

They should instead march against that takfiri psuedo revolutionary idealogy that gives Al Q its teeth. Every deviance emanating for those people are why Al Q exist. Its the idea not the group. If Al Q goes, there are hundreds to take its place. Defeat the neo-khawarij.

#10 Comment By Mirax On 8th November, 2005 @ 3:51 am

I am with Bikhair on this. I was in Morocco in the winter of 2001. It was the aftermath of 9/11. Hardly any tourists were around and moroccans were especially keen to distance themselves from the ‘terrorist’ tag. Shopkeepers would call out to us ” I love peace. I am not a terrorist.Come in!” and then launch into a defensive conversation about 9/11. What especially struck me was the amount of denial - almost universal- that fellow muslims could have perpetrated 9/11. I heard many inventive conspiracy theories. I am glad that Moroccans seem to coming out of the denial phase but it is a pity that bombs have to go off in casablanca and moroccan hostages killed in Bagdad before the condemnations begin.

#11 Comment By Sunny On 8th November, 2005 @ 4:12 am

Mirax - Believe me, there were and still are plenty of conspiracy theories about 9/11 and 7/7 still floating around in the UK, let alone the Arab world.

Dr Naseem Mohammed, of dancing cows fame, is possibly the best example of a person in denial.

#12 Comment By Mirax On 8th November, 2005 @ 4:17 am

I know, Sunny. I feel almost sorry for some of deniers- their worlviews and faith do seem have a fragility that is quite sad…

#13 Comment By Sunny On 8th November, 2005 @ 4:20 am

True Mirax.

Btw, I’m interested in what this term means: neo-khawarij that Bikhair uses.

#14 Comment By Mirax On 8th November, 2005 @ 4:53 am

the khawarij or karijites were a 7th century sect that was violently against the caliphate of Ali, Mohammed’s son-in-law and which ended up assasinating him. They (controversially) endorsed violence against fellow muslims and interestingly, when the arabs conquered north africa, the Berbers found in khawarism, a ideological support and framework in their resistance against the Arab colonists. The K’s were the original muslim rebels, ;-)

#15 Comment By Mirax On 8th November, 2005 @ 5:13 am

From Wikipedia:

Kharijite theology was a form of radical fundamentalism, preaching uncompromising observance of the teachings of the Qur’an in defiance of corrupt authorities. They preached absolute equality of the faithful, in opposition to the aristocracy of the Quraish which had grown more pronounced under the Umayyads.
They spread by violent jihad (the sixth pillar of Islam to some) their radical anti-authoritarian ideals: only the most pious should be caliph, they believed, even if he were an Abyssinian slave (the lowest social class of the era). For some a caliph was not even necessary; they insisted only that if one were chosen, he should be elected by the entire community of believers.
Their communities expelled from their midst those who committed ‘grave sins’, defined as any action contrary to the Qur’an. Perhaps not surprisingly, the various Kharijite communities were constantly divided (sources enumerate up to fifteen separate sects) and the movement remained politically fragmented throughout its existence.

The Kharijites’ relations with other Muslims were generally hostile, though this tendency waned with time. The most extreme were the Azraqis, founded in Persia in 685 by Nâfi` Ben Al-Azraq. These pronounced takfir on all other Muslims, considering them to be mushrik (’unbelievers’ or ‘idolators’) who could be killed with impunity. Their distinctive and terrifying practices included:

A test of sincerity required of each new recruit, in which the neophyte was required to cut the throat of a captive enemy.

Religious murder ), not only of men, but also of their wives and children

They regarded the territory occupied by other Muslims as part of Dar al-Kufr, the territory of unbelief where it was licit to attack both people and goods—but also a territory from which one must exile oneself, as Muhammad had exiled himself from Mecca to escape the unbelievers there.

Less brutal was the Sufri sect, founded by Ziyâd Ben Al-Asfar in an environment hostile to Kharijism. These condemned political murder, admitted the practice of taqiyya (dissimulation of one’s faith in order to escape danger), and rejected the massacre of the unbelievers’ children.

Interesting note: the city of Basra in southern iraq was the HQ of the khawarij movement in the 7th/8th centuries.

#16 Comment By StrangelyPsychedelique On 8th November, 2005 @ 7:36 am

>>Will Fox News report that I wonder? Any Americans killed? No. So probably not then.

I would have thought it was a great story for Fox to report. “Lookit the heathen peoples marching against evil Osama!”

>>“Muslims are brothers. A Muslim does not kill his brother” and “‘Yes’ to freedom, ‘No’ to terrorism and barbarity,”

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…..so is it less of a crime if someone outside the fraternal spectrum is killed?

#17 Comment By Mirax On 8th November, 2005 @ 8:47 am

“so is it less of a crime if someone outside the fraternal spectrum is killed?”

sadly, it seems so for many folks. Sure, it is natural to grieve for those you actually know and have a personal connection to , but the much wider identification with co-religionists or fellow countrymen is an abstract and therefore, artificial construct which allows for this hierarchical valuation of life.

#18 Comment By shihab On 8th November, 2005 @ 10:57 am

This is great news.

I’m sure, like me, you are forever meeting muslims who disassociate themselves from:

• Muslim terrorists
• Muslim fundo preachers of hatred
• Muslim parents that kill their daughters in the name of honour
• Muslim civilians who stone raped women to death
• Muslim village councillors who take the law unto their hands (by ordering the gang rape of a girl who’s brother was seen holding hands with a richer girl)

Yet, despite disassociating themselves from the aforementioned muslims, our Muslims still preach that Islam is a unifying philosophy.

At last the Moroccans have decided to stop hiding behind their Qu’ran and do something to show the world muslims aren’t just a bunch of blinkered cowards…

#19 Comment By Vikrant On 8th November, 2005 @ 11:30 am

“Muslims are brothers. A Muslim does not kill his brother”

So killing kaffirs is permitted isnt it?

#20 Comment By Jai Singh On 8th November, 2005 @ 12:32 pm

The world truly needs more of this kind of action. Imagine if there were protest marches against Al-Qaeda by Muslims in every city in the world (especially the Middle East) where there is a large Muslim population — along with simultaneous condemnations (by Islamic religious groups everywhere, like the one in Morocco) of Al-Qaeda’s behaviour and ideology as blasphemous & heretical.

About damn time. God bless them.

#21 Comment By Al-Hack On 8th November, 2005 @ 1:21 pm

So killing kaffirs is permitted isnt it?

Steady on chaps, one step at a time! Besides, caring for your own is nothing new. Its not like the Americans care for the Iraqi dead - they only count their own dead (officially).

#22 Comment By shihab On 8th November, 2005 @ 1:36 pm

I think the best people to fight Islamic terrorists are Muslims. This way they take responsibility for the rotten apples amongst themselves and terminate Team America’s arse-istance

Go on Muslims, put a jihad on the terrorists’ asses

#23 Comment By krazie On 8th November, 2005 @ 1:49 pm

About bloody time

#24 Comment By StrangelyPsychedelic On 8th November, 2005 @ 1:50 pm

>>Besides, caring for your own is nothing new.

Your example with the Americans isnt the same as this. Here you have two IDENTITIES involved:

1) Muslims
2) Moroccans

The protesters are riled up onl;y after two of their own are killed. Fair enough..the american example is valid here.

But they are ALSO riled up because their MUSLIM brothers were killed by fellow Muslims.

Which begs the question:
In their minds, is it less of a crime to kill nonMuslims?
If the two killed were Moroccan but NOT muslim - would they still protest with the same intensity?

What about the countless Muslims being slaughtered by Al Q type bad boys? We’re their deaths not worthy of protest because they weren’t Moroccan?

#25 Comment By shihab On 8th November, 2005 @ 1:52 pm

Is it less of a crime for Americans to not give a shit about New Orleans and go overboard to protect Texas?

#26 Comment By Siddharth On 8th November, 2005 @ 2:04 pm

Go on Muslims, put a jihad on the terrorists’ asses

The terrorism that is of the Qutubian type, a lá advocated by Zuwaihari, is certainly Arab-only and therefore should be dealt with at the source. And the source is Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

#27 Comment By Al-Hack On 8th November, 2005 @ 3:14 pm

This is good news for one main reason. Al-Qaeda has always been an ideaology around forcing Muslims to live in a particularly fanatic way. Take the Taliban for example.

In their hatred of the west, many Muslims in Middle East forget that most of the people Al-Qaeda kills are Muslims, not westerners. So the sooner they rise up against these zealots, the faster AQ can be supressed and made insignificant.

#28 Comment By Stephen On 8th November, 2005 @ 3:37 pm

The battle for hearts and minds in the muslim world, sometimes seems like a battle betwen the US and AQ to see who can alienate people quickest.

They stumble about blindly creating supporters for the other side.

#29 Comment By Sunny On 8th November, 2005 @ 4:07 pm

They stumble about blindly creating supporters for the other side.
Heh, that is very much on the ball Stephen.

#30 Comment By Bikhair On 8th November, 2005 @ 6:49 pm

Vikrant,

“So killing kaffirs is permitted isnt it? ”

Killing a kaffir is permitted. Killing a Muslims is permitted too, its just why you kill them thats the issue.

#31 Comment By Bikhair On 8th November, 2005 @ 6:52 pm

Shihab,

“At last the Moroccans have decided to stop hiding behind their Qu’ran and do something to show the world muslims aren’t just a bunch of blinkered cowards…”

Oh please, its only the Quran that tells Muslims not to be cowards. Forget hding behind it, why not implement it? What a strange, strange concept for Muslims.

#32 Comment By Bikhair On 8th November, 2005 @ 6:57 pm

“The world truly needs more of this kind of action.”

Maybe the world but not Muslims.

“Imagine if there were protest marches against Al-Qaeda by Muslims in every city in the world (especially the Middle East) where there is a large Muslim population — along with simultaneous condemnations (by Islamic religious groups everywhere, like the one in Morocco) of Al-Qaeda’s behaviour and ideology as blasphemous & heretical.”

There already believe that Muslims are in a state of jahiliyah. This may work to bolster that opinion. Muslims need the truth to convince these people that they are deviants. The same message that corrected the earliest Muslim community will correct the lastest Muslim community. BTW, there have been refutations of these people from way back. Just because you dont see it on CNN or BBC, doesnt mean it didnt happen.

You people are too obsessed with T.V.

#33 Comment By Bikhair On 8th November, 2005 @ 7:02 pm

“The terrorism that is of the Qutubian type, a lá advocated by Zuwaihari, is certainly Arab-only and therefore should be dealt with at the source. And the source is Egypt and Saudi Arabia.”

Saudi Arabia? How cliche. If anything that scholars who have been very consistent and to the point in thier condemnation of these kinds of people have been scholars from Saudi Arabia. But what do I know, I am a Saudi loving Salafi.

I agree with you about the Egyptian angle. None of what is going on today has a history in Saudi Arabia. Those people were just too unsophisticated and traditional.

#34 Comment By Bikhair On 8th November, 2005 @ 7:04 pm

Shihab,

“Is it less of a crime for Americans to not give a shit about New Orleans and go overboard to protect Texas? ”

I dont recall this ever happening.

#35 Comment By Mirax On 8th November, 2005 @ 7:18 pm

Bikhair,
agree with your point about the saudis- they’re just too stolid and unimaginative for the revolutionary fervour ;-)

The ideas that animate the islamist discourse are a mishmash that range from the reactionary to the revolutionary. Besides, Qutb himself was influenced profoundly by the likes of maulana maudoodi, so I will finger Pakistan as a cause too. Along with the Iranian islamic revolution and the Algerian civil war.

#36 Comment By Mirax On 8th November, 2005 @ 7:24 pm

Curious to know Bikhair, what is the’ truth’ or ‘message’ that will correct the deviants?

#37 Comment By Eric On 8th November, 2005 @ 9:30 pm

The terrorism that is of the Qutubian type, a lá advocated by Zuwaihari, is certainly Arab-only and therefore should be dealt with at the source. And the source is Egypt and Saudi Arabia

Funny, I seem to remember a Yorkshireman appearing in one of their video rentals.

#38 Comment By Siddharth On 8th November, 2005 @ 10:46 pm

Eric: I’m talking about the source not the fucking foot soldiers, of whom there’s also been a white American or three, some Dutch and some Scandinavians and a host of others somewhere along the way. Are you suggesting that the Yorkshiremen involved in 7/7 London were Al-Qaeda supremos and idealogical epicentres of the movement? Tell us more…

#39 Comment By Siddharth On 8th November, 2005 @ 10:55 pm

Those people were just too unsophisticated and traditional.

Thats pretty cliché as well, don’t you think? All Saudis are not the Mutawwa type Wahhabbi numbskulls that is the stereotypical currency of Saudis in the Arab World. I’ll wager the funding behind much of the terrorism comes from extremely Westernised royals from Saudi.

#40 Comment By j0nz On 9th November, 2005 @ 12:16 am

I’ll wager the funding behind much of the terrorism comes from extremely Westernised royals from Saudi.

So it’s Bush’s fault afterall?

#41 Comment By Siddharth On 9th November, 2005 @ 12:26 am

So it’s Bush’s fault afterall?

Dude, I know ecstasy is 3 quid a pop nowadays, but someone has got to tell you that its playing havoc with your reading-comprehension.

#42 Comment By Fe’reeha On 9th November, 2005 @ 1:35 am

So is it a lesser crime to kill a non-Muslim?

The answer is No, even though the slogan of the protest march might make one think otherwise.
In Islam, killing one innocent person is said toe be equallent to killing of the whole humanity. It odesn’t matter if the person is a Muslim or non Muslim.
Moreover, according to sharia law, a judge or jury can never “forgive” or be “sympathetic” to the cause of murder, not do they have any say. The decision of the murderer’s trial is taken by the immdeiate family of the killed person.
Again, Quran says very clearly, if non Muslims are being opressed under a Muslim government or ruler, then you go fight them as well….I wonder why maulvis forget to menton this while going on and on about the concept of jihad.

#43 Comment By j0nz On 9th November, 2005 @ 1:39 am

Again, Quran says very clearly, if non Muslims are being opressed under a Muslim government or ruler, then you go fight them as well….I wonder why maulvis forget to menton this while going on and on about the concept of jihad.

It also says that if you have four male Muslim witnesses an adultress can be legally stoned to death. What are your thoughts on this please? I’m not trolling, I genuinley want to hear your answer.

#44 Comment By j0nz On 9th November, 2005 @ 1:41 am

Actually I think it’s four Muslim witnesses, regardless of sex, if I remember correctly.

#45 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 2:59 am

jOnz,

“It also says that if you have four male Muslim witnesses an adultress can be legally stoned to death. What are your thoughts on this please? I’m not trolling, I genuinley want to hear your answer.”

It also says that Muslims are to be honest and not hide the truth, Allah is all seeing and all knowing. So if there are four male Muslim witnesses that see any crime take place, who are known for their honest among the people, then how can you reject their testimony?

#46 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 3:02 am

Siddhartha,

“Thats pretty cliché as well, don’t you think? All Saudis are not the Mutawwa type Wahhabbi numbskulls that is the stereotypical currency of Saudis in the Arab World.”

If the Mutawwa are safe grouding the kingdom and enforcing the laws your beef isnt with them.

“I’ll wager the funding behind much of the terrorism comes from extremely Westernised royals from Saudi.”

Yes, its always the Westernized Muslims. They mix what they learned in Darul Kufr with Islam with the results being very disastrous.

#47 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 3:28 am

Fe’reeha,

“I wonder why maulvis forget to menton this while going on and on about the concept of jihad.”

Didnt you know the only people qaulified to talk about jihad are the kafirs of Western societies who have been studying Islam since 9/11 and who get all thier books from amazon.com?

I kid.

“Again, Quran says very clearly, if non Muslims are being opressed under a Muslim government or ruler, then you go fight them as well…”

Actually Fe’reeha (I always thought an apostrophe in a name was so exotic, arrr!)
I believe one of the four mahdhabs, though I hate to refer to them as such, was of the opinion that if the rights of dhimmis, that were given to them by the Imam, were not granted to them in Darul Kufr, than the Imam could declare jihad on that basis. Having said that, I do wonder why people believe that in Islam the world is divided into two spheres, Darul Islam and Darul Harb and it is the obligation of Muslims to turn Darul Harb into Darul Islam before its too late. This really speaks to the narcissism of kafirs.

I kid.

I would need to get the opinion of the ulema on that one.

#48 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 3:42 am

Mirax,

I enjoy some of your post. I like that post from Wikipedia. I wonder who edits those subjects over there. Anyway if you really want to know about Qutb, I have an excellent mp3 ( I think thats what it is) by Abu Khadeejah from Birmingham.

[6] http://www.troid.org/audio/manhaj/innovation/qutbees/calamities.htm

#49 Comment By Mirax On 9th November, 2005 @ 4:41 am

Bikhair, you are a weird one- dunno when you are serious or kidding! So you are really salafist.

Must clarify that I am not interested in Qutb per se since I am atheist, the worst kind of kaffir;-)

Listened to the lecture against that accursed ‘innovator and caller to bida’a ‘, Qutb, by that fella from Birmingham. Such a longwinded indictment of ‘innovators’ invoking such a long list of the scholars of the past but without a clear definition of the boundaries within which this innovation supposedly exists. Am not too impressed by the ossified-in-the 10th-century thought processes of the lecturer. Also, being much too ready to call others apostate is not a good quality.

Tell me, does all modern ijtihad equate to bida’a?

#50 Comment By Mirax On 9th November, 2005 @ 4:51 am

‘Yes, its always the Westernized Muslims. They mix what they learned in Darul Kufr with Islam with the results being very disastrous. ‘

Come on, Bikhair. I thought that we have already established through the example of the Kharijites, that parts of the muslim ummah have from the 7th century been more than capable of creating murder and mayhem on their own. The roots of the disease are and have always been within the muslim body politic.

#51 Comment By Mirax On 9th November, 2005 @ 5:21 am

I thought that it was quite clear in Islamic jurisprudence that muslim and non-muslim witnesses are not equal, just as male and female muslim witnesses are not equal.
Under the hanbali school, sharia judges even have the discretion to discount the testimony of muslims (such as the shia) who are not the ‘right’ type of muslims.

The life of a non-muslim is of literally lesser value, as observed by the sliding scale of the bloodmoney paid to a victim’s family in say, Saudi Arabia.

From the US state department:

Hindus are considered polytheists by Islamic law, which is used as a justification for greater discrimination in calculating accidental death or injury compensation. According to the country’s “Hanbali” interpretation of Sharia (Islamic law), once fault is determined by a court, a Muslim male receives 100 percent of the amount of compensation determined, a male Jew or Christian received 50 percent, and all others (including Hindus) received 1/16 of the amount a male Muslim receives. Women receive 50 percent of what males receive in each of these categories.

#52 Comment By j0nz On 9th November, 2005 @ 3:12 pm

jOnz,

“It also says that if you have four male Muslim witnesses an adultress can be legally stoned to death. What are your thoughts on this please? I’m not trolling, I genuinley want to hear your answer.”

It also says that Muslims are to be honest and not hide the truth, Allah is all seeing and all knowing. So if there are four male Muslim witnesses that see any crime take place, who are known for their honest among the people, then how can you reject their testimony?

You are parodying Islamists, right? I don’t know you from Adam (or Abdul) but I’m assuming you don’t advocate stoning women to death for adultery..

#53 Comment By j0nz On 9th November, 2005 @ 3:13 pm

Grr no preview button…

#54 Comment By TexAn On 9th November, 2005 @ 7:45 pm

Hello…..just stumbled in so tell me if this is a anti-everything American, especially FOX and absolute hate-Bush site?

I think the Moroccans deserve credit for their actions. I would feel really good if they had added “any hostage” to their chant. When they add those words, I will personally make FOX crazy with my emails about showing it.

#55 Comment By Sunny On 9th November, 2005 @ 7:56 pm

anti-everything American - not at all.
especially FOX - likely, but not necessarily
absolute hate-Bush site - depends what he says but usually he doesn’t say a lot that is intelligent.

I would feel really good if they had added “any hostage” to their chant
Too bad for you it’s not a religious riot eh?

#56 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 8:26 pm

Mirax,

“The life of a non-muslim is of literally lesser value, as observed by the sliding scale of the bloodmoney paid to a victim’s family in say, Saudi Arabia.”

The repentence is in the fasting not the blood money. Accidental death, two months for both Muslim male and female. The others I dont have a clue.

#57 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 8:29 pm

Mirax,

“Tell me, does all modern ijtihad equate to bida’a?”

People who “call to ijtihad” make me suspicious of thier intentions. 99.99% of the time they want to ijtihad Islam out of existence. When matters are already clear in the Quran and precedence has been set by the Prophet’s sunnah and the understanding of the first three generations of Muslims is understood, there is no case for ijtihad.

#58 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 8:33 pm

jOnz,

“You are parodying Islamists, right? I don’t know you from Adam (or Abdul) but I’m assuming you don’t advocate stoning women to death for adultery..”

What does the Quran advocate? When people were stoned to death during the time of Prophet Muhammed (sallalahu alaihi wa salam) what was the circumstances? Was it a tool used only against women?

What I advocate is that both men and women, dont commit adultery. And that Men and women observe each others rights that ALlah has placed on them both as husband and wife, and that they treat thier marriage like the trust that it is.

#59 Comment By Bikhair On 9th November, 2005 @ 8:39 pm

Mirax,

“Come on, Bikhair. I thought that we have already established through the example of the Kharijites, that parts of the muslim ummah have from the 7th century been more than capable of creating murder and mayhem on their own.”

I was talking about in modern times. I cant believe you didnt like that lesson.

“Also, being much too ready to call others apostate is not a good quality.”

Did you listen to the lecture at all? Its those Muslims who make takfir on people not the likes of the fella from Birmingham.

Read this.

[7] http://www.troid.org/articles/manhaj/innovation/thefitnahoftakfeer/tribulationoftakfeer.pdf

#60 Comment By TexAn On 9th November, 2005 @ 10:55 pm

Sunny,
What does “Too bad for you it’s not a religous riot eh” mean?

I agree Bush is not a good speaker, but he sure is a doer eh?

#61 Comment By Mirax On 9th November, 2005 @ 11:20 pm

‘he sure is a doer ‘

sure, in the sense of doing himself and his country in.

#62 Comment By Mirax On 9th November, 2005 @ 11:46 pm

Bikhair,

Oh there’s prescribed fasting to show repentance? I did not know that. I thought additional fasting was just a gain more merit kinda voluntary thing.

But repentance was not my point at all. Legal valuation of non-muslim life and witness under sharia was. Is it appropriate to mount an automatic defence of sharia when you admit you don’t know the details ..?

#63 Comment By Mirax On 9th November, 2005 @ 11:52 pm

“When matters are already clear in the Quran and precedence has been set by the Prophet’s sunnah and the understanding of the first three generations of Muslims is understood, there is no case for ijtihad.”

Ever read anything by Fazlur Rahman on the issue of the sunnah,hadiths and ijtihad, Bikhair? Just curious to know your reaction.

#64 Comment By Sunny On 9th November, 2005 @ 11:58 pm

Texan:
1) Meaning that it would have given the Islamophobes that dominate the American blogosphere no amount of orgasmic pleasure to point the fingers at France, laugh, and say that Europe is being turned into an Islamic state for “appeasing” Muslims.

They have tried it anyway, specially that silly cow Michelle Malkin, but this is a riot about equality, not religion. I guess that makes it frustrating for some because clearly they want to make everything into an intafada.

2) but he sure is a doer eh?
Anyone can be a doer, but you have to do the right thing, that’s the important part no? So far he’s managed to drag everyone into a war on false pretences, did his best to destroy the environment, given into the oil and religious-right lobby etc etc. Hardly the best state of affairs.

Bikhair - can you please use less of the arabic terms. It makes it hard to understand what you’re saying. This ain’t a blog dominated by Muslims dude.

#65 Comment By Mirax On 10th November, 2005 @ 12:03 am

I did listen to the lecture. I was not convinced by it because it was exactly symptomatic of all that closeminded and blanket denunciations of competing schools of thought and sects in Islam . The ”we are absolutely right and you are the apostate’ kind of accusations that go back and forth endlessly. I could easily imagine the other side doing the same, just as eloquently.

#66 Comment By Bikhair On 10th November, 2005 @ 12:56 am

Mirax,

“Ever read anything by Fazlur Rahman on the issue of the sunnah,hadiths and ijtihad, Bikhair?”

Who? No.

#67 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 11:55 am

Bikhair

You sick fuck. It’s more important than men or women don’t commit adultery than the right to not be stoned to death?

And sunny and siddarth come over to HP whinging about ‘Islamophobia’?

I think I shall be posting about this myself…

#68 Comment By Siddhartha On 11th November, 2005 @ 12:23 pm

I think I shall be posting about this myself…

I can hardly contain myself.

#69 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 12:35 pm

Well Siddarth, seriously, do you believe in stoning to death for adultery?

#70 Comment By Siddhartha On 11th November, 2005 @ 12:47 pm

j0nz: I certainly don’t. But what has that got to do with taking on the Islamophobes at Harry’s Place? The discussions over at HP had veered over to nasty Muslim baiting (as it always does) when the discussion was about the French riots.

#71 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 12:56 pm

Well thankyou Siddarth. IMO I think you’ve overreacted in most at ‘Muslim’ baiting. I mean I don’t recall any of them asking for Muslims to be killed for wrongdoing…

Some are boring and keep going on about Islam when the riots had very little to do with Islam. But I think you should restraining some of your outrrage for things that are truly terrible! (as opposed to just inaccurate / annoying)

#72 Comment By Siddhartha On 11th November, 2005 @ 1:05 pm

j0nz,
Thanks for the suggestions on what I should and should not be outraged about. But before we get totally glazed with your boring self-righteous twoddle, have a look at your post and define what: “keep going on about Islam” means. There lies our difference in interpretation.

#73 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 1:18 pm

I was niavely hoping for a decent response. You criticise me for opposing murder by stoning.

There’s no hope for some people! Oh well. I suppose I was just brought up with those silly Western values of freedom & democracy. Perhaps you’d prefer Shari’a. I’d rather oppose such totalitarian societies… But everyone to themselves!

#74 Comment By Siddhartha On 11th November, 2005 @ 1:23 pm

j0nz, I’m somewhat confused by the way you present your argument. Are you railing against my comments on HP because I am not attacking some poster on PickledPolitics has made a comment on stoning? You’ve manage to conjoin two separate tropes (that word again) and used it a weapon to remonstrate against the injustices of the world.
I’m against stoning of any kind. (Except getting stoned).
I’m against the constant and unnecessary anti-Muslim hysteria on Harry’s Place.

#75 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 1:37 pm

I get worked up and maybe I shouldn’t. Yes I’m not happy nobody has challenged those comments on stoning. Maybe you think it goes without saying…

Let’s ignore your paki-basher accusations on HP at random people. Some people see the sinister hand of Islam where there isn’t. So what?! You should be laughing at their misconceptions. But, and I know you going to get angry for me pointing this out, but atrocities are being committed in the name of Islam arond the world - Can you really be so harsh to those who are afraid of Islam?

#76 Comment By Siddhartha On 11th November, 2005 @ 2:29 pm

j0nz: Thanks again for your lecture on what I should find offensive.

You should be laughing at their misconceptions.
What a stupid apologistic remark. Should I laugh at the misconceptions of the BNP? When there was a racist bloodbath on a PickledPolitics thread on the Lozells Road riots, the administrators did their best to stop the hideous racist namecalling. Sunny had to sift thru the commenst and delete the most offensive ones. I don’t see that happening ever on HP. When the tide turns and the Islamophobes take over any given thread, as they do more often than not, those comments are left on there. I don’t see you piping up about the racism then. Should I be blaming you for the racism on Harry’s Place?

Lets clear a misconception you have about Muslims. Muslims have been living with the primitive practice of stoning in their midst yet in most South Asian countries this is never practiced. There are more grass roots organisations aimed at Womens Rights in Bangladesh say, than there are rehabiliation centres for BNP members who want to wean themselves off Hitler-worship. My point is that Muslims deal with these issues more than you know or are willing to know.

#77 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 3:14 pm

What you fail to understand is we live in A FREE country. With something called FREEDOM of speech.

Now racism = wrong . Undisputed my friend

Critiscing religion = being in the 21st century (well for most of us anyway).

Oh wow, they dont actually stone people that often in South Asian countries! Well they certainly like to see mentally ill people put to death in Pakistan for [8] ‘blasphemy’.

There have been a few racist killings in the past few decades. Islamists have killed 52 people in one day.

The ideologies are both fucked. But your constant “I’m a victim” / you’re a racist crap doesn’t wash.

What are the facts, mate? How many people have murdered in the UK from BNP racism and how many by Islamists??? The only reason I bring up is cos you are obssessed with linking all Muslim wrongs to racism from the BNP. Get a grip.

#78 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 3:21 pm

I don’t find the comments on HP offensive. I have never seen a racist comment left on HP.

PLEASE, I BEG, SHOW ME SOME RACIST COMMENTS ON HP! (Omg you’ve made me sound like Galloway)

#79 Comment By Siddhartha On 11th November, 2005 @ 3:38 pm

big fucking yawn.

How predictable that you would wheel out that tired old trope (yes that word, again) about “Islamophobism is not Racism but is just healthy rationalist contempt of the Transcendental”. However much I agree with that in principle, most of the questionable customs that are used to ignite this hatred of Muslims in Britain will never be practiced by those Muslims (polygamy, stoning, honour killings etc) ever. And its still hatred and bigotry pure and simple. So when the BNP stalwart beats up a old woman in Ilford shall we still use your pragmatic reasoning about “Muslims are not a race” to excuse the bastard?

Islamists have killed 52 people in one day.
Who do you’re fooling? If David Copeland wasn’t a thick pig shit racist and his bombs had worked, he would have succeeded in killing hundreds in Brixton and Brick Lane, so put that argument away, thats a good boy.

And BTW, I’m no victim by a long shot and have never considered myself to be. I’m middle class, happily married, live in leafy suburbia with a big shiny new car and my consultation fees alone ensure that I earn more than most. So, I’m always in the biriyani.

#80 Comment By j0nz On 11th November, 2005 @ 4:13 pm

Yeah sorry, I forgot I hate all Muslims, Thanks for letting me know. Plus all HP readers + the vast majority of the British people.

Luckily you reminded me Im full of a hatred and a bigot for opposing the one of the disgusting commentors HERE at this site for advocating stoning to death.

My the the stench of hypocrisy!… Happy Friday eveybody!

#81 Comment By Siddhartha On 11th November, 2005 @ 4:42 pm

If thats whats its all about then yeah, of course. The person who advocated stoning is a fucking tosser and nothing but an insect feeding on the entrails of their own dead mother.
OK? Happy now?


Article printed from Pickled Politics: http://www.pickledpolitics.com

URL to article: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/131

URLs in this post:
[1] Lebanese Star: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=19824
[2] the rally: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/196D6094-57D6-4C6F-89A8-AB10546BA548.htm
[3] Gateway Pundit: http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/11/massive-muslim-demonstration-against.html
[4] The English Guy: http://www.thex.com/rd/2005/11/07/muslims-march-against-al-qaida/
[5] http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.226404219&par=: http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.226404219&par=
[6] http://www.troid.org/audio/manhaj/innovation/qutbees/calamities.htm: http://www.troid.org/audio/manhaj/innovation/qutbees/calamities.htm
[7] http://www.troid.org/articles/manhaj/innovation/thefitnahoftakfeer/tribulationoftakfeer.pdf: http://www.troid.org/articles/manhaj/innovation/thefitnahoftakfeer/tribulationoftakfeer.pdf
[8] ‘blasphemy’.: http://www.thepersecution.org/news/lat020805.html