Shambo Update: Should Temple bull receive special treatment?


by SajiniW
26th July, 2007 at 10:31 am    

Shambo, the six-year old Friesian resident at Skanda Vale Temple in Carmarthenshire, is awaiting his fate today. The animal has tested positive for bovine TB and under the guidelines of government vets and the National Farmers Union is recommended for culling.

After much protest, Shambo was allowed to live. This verdict was overturned and the Welsh Assembly vets were sent to the temple this morning to take Shambo to slaughter. In a twist of fate, they forgot their warrants and the protest prayers got louder. The Guardian is following the development of the story here.

What I find most interesting is this petition. The writers have raised a valid point in whether an animal of religious interest should receive special treatment. It’s difficult to see why Shambo should be spared the slaughter that other infected cows have received, given that all cows are supposedly sacred to Hindus.

Temple well-wishers have also offered to pay for medical TB treatment, which is an option the owners of other cows culled didn’t have. I’d like to know why the Assembly are reluctant to try this option, given that Shambo is kept in isolation and isn’t going to be used for meat/milk production like the vast majority of cows killed were? Shambo’s purpose is similar to that of a family pet – to be cared for and treated with love and affection. I’m of the belief it’s unfair to treat him under the same DEFRA guidelines as livestock and dairy cows as he wasn’t reared for these purposes.

What about you?


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  1. David T — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:28 am  

    I feel quite sorry for the cow, but sorrier for the priests whose pet the cow is.

    I don’t care that much whether cows in general live or die. I do care, however, for the relationships of affection that people have with animals. I have a dog, which I love very much indeed. It would be upsetting if a government agency killed my dog as a result of the inflexible application of a rule, rather than allowing me to give my dog anti-biotics.

    By and large, people don’t keep cows as pets, or as objects of veneration. I therefore appreciate why a flexible rule might not have been developed. By contrast, we do keep dogs as pets, and therefore have developed such procedures as quarantine and vaccination to deal with the spread of infectious diseases. We take this approach because we live in a society which respects the affection of people for certain animals.

    Hindu priests do appear to keep cows as something akin to pets. Killing this cow, rather than treating it, will upset them enormously. There doesn’t appear to be much utility in insisting on killing the beast, rather than treating it.

    Have I missed something?

  2. jdc — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:31 am  
  3. David T — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:47 am  

    Oh well, we shouldn’t.

  4. jdc — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:49 am  

    On balance, I agree.

    Where are all the people who think we should be banned from drawing cartoons in case it damages community relations? Curiously quiet.

  5. ChrisC — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:57 am  

    We shouldn’t slaughter pets which pose no threat.

    But we shouldn’t discriminate between such pets on relgious grounds!

  6. sofia — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:04 pm  

    is there any precedent for a cow being treated with antibiotics for TB?

  7. Roger — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:09 pm  

    The MAFF’s policy on slaughter is grotesque and cruel anyway. If they move, kill them. The Wild Bunch chose the wrong job. Remember the last foot-and-mouth outbreak, where the policy was it it looked as if it might have been near an animal that might have been near the outbreak it should be killed? It didn’t do any good and they killed so many animals they couldn’t cope with the sorpses. The same [the Home office on MAFF advice here] with rabies injections and quarantine for dogs.

  8. funkg — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:12 pm  

    poor cow poor thing

  9. Kismet Hardy — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:21 pm  

    Don’t have a cow man

    Shambolic stuff indeed

    Shamburger, anyone?

    Shambo selecta

    Get ready for the Shambola festival

    Next the movie by Stallone. Shambo: First Cud

  10. Bert Preast — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:31 pm  

    Can’t TB be passed from cows to humans and vice-versa? So if they’re not going to slaughter her then whatever they do the last place she should be is in a temple.

  11. David T — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:34 pm  

    Oh, you get all sorts of ghastly diseases from pets; most of them treatable.

    On the up side, stroking a pet lowers blood pressure.

  12. sonia — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:57 pm  

    i agree, they should just say its someone’s pet…!

  13. David T — on 26th July, 2007 at 12:59 pm  

    Well, they don’t think of it as a pet. They think of it as an object of veneration.

    However, in reality, it is a pet.

  14. SajiniW — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:00 pm  

    Chris C is right. Religion shouldn’t be used to favour one animal over another.

    Sofia – antibiotics have been used successfully in bovine TB management for humans. I assume they are part of the ‘medication’ cocktail for cattle.

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10319-99064–,00.html

    Bert – Bovine TB can spread from humans to animals. I’m sure the monks at Scandavale are more than happy to wear the precautionary masks, gloves and goggles the government vets do when visiting Shambo, whilst making Shambro live in isolation & wear a mask too.

  15. Don — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:04 pm  

    Even if the rules are harsh, how could they be changed? ‘ …unless the animal has a religious significance’? ‘…unless the owner is really fond of the animal’?

    No exemption is allowed for world-class pedigree herds built up over generations. Maybe the rules could be modified to allow for treatment and isolation, if the money can be found. But while the are as they are, they should be applied without fear or favour.

  16. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:16 pm  

    David T, (I wouldnt usually bother posting on such a lowborw site but i noticed you thread on HB) :-)

    This whole story is some pc theocratic joke or something. The fate of the cow should be down to the scientific and medical evidence, and stupid religious considerations must play second fiddle to the safety of the global bovine community. Dont laugh!

    One stupid cow could conceivably cause some huge TB outbreak and we are putting up with these hindu/buddists? WTF.

    This is as stupid as Jehovas who wont administer blood products for their sick kids. Its actually the same moronic pretense behing suicide bombings, but not as sensationalist.

    But what i find more irritating than the usual navel gazing over this preposterous story, is the BBCs reaction to this story.

    Is Buddism off limits for a good tongue thrashing or something – according to the BBC. Why isnt all religion treated with the same contempt by the atheistic cabal at BBC hq?

    They have treated Shambo like some cute fluffy animal in which case it would be so awful to chop him up into beefsteak.

    Double standards from all concerned.

    SHAMBO must DIE!

  17. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:18 pm  

    I saw the priests being interviewed and they were all white. Is this mandir an ISCKON or Hare Krishna mandir?

  18. Don — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:22 pm  

    Does it make a difference?

  19. Dan — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:27 pm  

    I have lived in India and am married to a Hindu. Cows are slaughtered in India for meat and I know one or two Hindus who eat beef. The Shambo issue has been politically inflamed by the Vishva Hindu Parishad, a fundamentalist Hindu chauvinist group. The temple might be rightly upset about the loss of Shambo, but the internationalisation of this issue is related to a particularly nasty element within Indian politics. Expect to see Shiv Sena burning effigies of Gordon Brown in the streets of Mumbai …

  20. Kismet Hardy — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:28 pm  

    I just hope this habit of putting a cow’s right to live gets sorted out before Eid. We need to slaughter cows in the name of our religion (it should be dumbas, the animal that Ibrahim found when instead of his son) but it’s cows now. I hope these so-called cow activists don’t ruin Eid for us poor Muslims. They need to die and we need to eat. You can’t argue with Islam

  21. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:29 pm  

    (I wouldnt usually bother posting on such a lowborw site but i noticed you thread on HB

    lowborw?

    I think you need to spend more time on learn-to-spell sites before coming to highbrow sites like this superior in intellect spirit and soul to yours.

    Is Buddism off limits for a good tongue thrashing or something – according to the BBC.

    Is Buddhism off limits to the BBC? Who knows? But what’s this got to do with Buddhism? It’s the Hindu religion, or an offshoot of it, that is being discussed here, two different religions. Here’s a hint — go to wikipedia and type in ‘Hinduism’, and then type in ‘Buddhism’, and you will see they are not the same.

    Please don’t bring your lowbrow intellect into the discussions like this, as it’s like a drooling yokel from Deliverance playing the banjo while we compose a symphony.

    Its actually the same moronic pretense behing suicide bombings, but not as sensationalist.

    Yeah, it’s the same impulse, attachment to a cow, and exploding yourself in a packed train of innocents, the same ‘pretence’ and source, sure it is.

    Have you been sectioned recently? Do you have a phobia of white padded rooms? How low is your brow? Is it very low?

  22. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:31 pm  

    Well Don, I was just asking out of curiosity, and it might make a difference in terms of theology and belief and practise. An Arya Samaj or Swami Narayan Hindu temple would not keep a cow on their premises.

  23. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:34 pm  

    Well Dan, you might be right about the VHP being behind this. I personally don’t know.

    Cows are slaughtered and eaten in India, mostly by Muslims, a few Hindus you know may eat beef, but the overwhelming majority of Hindus don’t eat it and place the consumption of it on a par with eating pork if you’re a Jew or Muslim. Just a religio-cultural taboo.

  24. Mettaculture — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:35 pm  

    Of course the Cow can be treated that’s what anti-biotics do.

    A system of inflexible rules that determines which animals we must treat as food and which we are allowed to show emotions for and how we must treat some animals (kill them) denies us our very humanity.

    Further it is extrmemly unscientific, animals particularly herd,social mammals like us are capable of complex emotions themselves, to arbitrarily select some as food items and to require butchery as the only method of dealing with any health issue is madness.

    Of course we know this in the case of Horses, the English love horses, indeed we mark our selves of from the French and Spanish by our humane treatment of horses and donkeys.

    So let the animal be treated. The human capacity for empathy that allows us to feel for other humans very different from ourselves and for other animals even more distant though sharing an emotional/affective range is what makes us human.

    It is why we use the words; humane treatment of animals geddit?

  25. Dan — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:42 pm  

    I know that the ISKCON temple in Soho was forced to carry out pest control measures in its kitchen. The devotees were reluctant to allow this as it meant killing the pests (I think they were cockroaches – a common problem in any Soho kitchen, although there were no reports of food poisoning as all food has to be freshly made). However, faced with the option of carrying out pest control or closing the temple altogether, the devotees brought in Rentokil and chanted “Hare Krishna” as the bugs were poisoned. This was followed by a feast in honour of the pests. It was ultimately a common sense approach in which religion was adapted to meet legal regulations and protect public health. The only time you’d actually get most Hindus very angry is if you desecrated their idols. Other than that, they are generally a tolerant and non-violent group – aside from the neo-fascists in the RSS and VHP, of course (the Hare Krishnas have nothing to do with them).

  26. Dan — on 26th July, 2007 at 1:53 pm  

    Metta: I think the problem with having a cow with an extremely contagious disease is that it could easily spread throughout the national herd and lead to trade sanctions on our country.

    Jagdeep: Cows are not generally eaten by Hindus because they are sacred not because of taboos surrounding eating. There are sensible reasons not to eat cows. They perform a very important duty in India, providing food staple in the form of milk and pulling the plough. Their importance to the development of human civilisation in India led to their deification. The slaughter and consumption of a cow was like attacking a crucial aspect of the peasant economy, so obviously cows needed special protection. There is also a tradition of vegetarianism (including abstinence from eggs, garlic and onions) intended to preserve spiritual purity, although most Hindus are meat eaters and you could never separate a Bengali from his hilsa.

  27. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:03 pm  

    Jagdeep,

    “Is Buddhism off limits to the BBC? Who knows? But what’s this got to do with Buddhism? It’s the Hindu religion, or an offshoot of it, that is being discussed here, two different religions. Here’s a hint — go to wikipedia and type in ‘Hinduism’, and then type in ‘Buddhism’, and you will see they are not the same.”

    You are quite right and I dont pretend to be a scholar on Hinduism or Buddhism. Frankly they seem alot the same to me and Im just not interested enough to study the differences.

    But it does not change my point. This is religious lunacy from whichever cult of voodoo we are talking about.

    If the wider bovine community is being put at risk because of TB Shambo then he has to be put to the sword. What can i say? Im sorry but the cow needs to die and Hinduism or Buddhism has nothing to do with it.

    Anyway he looks like a juicy steak to me. Medium rare with a baked potato would go down nicely.

    SHAMBO must DIE!

  28. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:07 pm  

    Dan I know all that, about the reasons why the cow is revered in rural India. The taboos around eating cows are religio-cultural in nature. That’s the point I was making. Even though most of my Hindu friends eat chicken, are non practising, don’t visit the mandir or have any real strong religious side, they won’t eat beef because it’s an ingrained taboo. Even a secular non practising Jew or Muslim will not eat pork.

  29. AsifB — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:10 pm  

    Each to his or her own beliefs I say.
    As its silly season, I suggest that rather than involving legislators and judges that the authorities immediately send for Oscar “The nursing home cat that ‘predicts’ death”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2135381,00.html

    Oscar the rescue cat is not simply a welcome feline companion at the Steere nursing home in Providence, Rhode Island. According to a new report in a medical journal he has a remarkable, morbid talent – predicting when patients will die.
    When the two-year-old grey and white cat curls up next to an elderly resident, staff now realise, this means they are likely to die in the next few hours.

    Such is Oscar’s apparent accuracy – 25 consecutive cases so far – that nurses at the US home now warn family members to rush to a patient’s beside as soon as the cat takes up residence there…..

  30. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:11 pm  

    Im sorry but the cow needs to die and Hinduism or Buddhism has nothing to do with it

    Except that they are two different religions, so it does matter for the purposes of discussing the issue. That’s what makes us highbrow. Please try and elevate yourself from your low point.

  31. David T — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:19 pm  

    hahaha. Oh dear.

    Even a secular non practising Jew or Muslim will not eat pork.

    True.

    Bacon though… well, that’s a different matter.

  32. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:26 pm  

    When I eat a bacon sarnie with HP sauce, I thank and praise my grandparents for traversing oceans and lands and hardships to emigrate here, so I could eat bacon sandwiches. The best food of England. It was all for this.

  33. David T — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:30 pm  

    England Is No 1!!!!!!!!!

  34. Jean-Luc Gascard — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:33 pm  

    How obscene, there’s Dharavi, and there’s milliions of oppressed children and adults in India, and these yahoos want to save a diseased cow. Where the fuck were they when thousands of cows were slaughtered across the UK. Maybe zis cow iz zer reincarnated remote ancestor? Bloody mad cows! No?

  35. Kesara — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:34 pm  

    Frankly they seem alot the same to me and Im just not interested enough to study the differences.

    You’d do well to keep away from any discussion that requires intellgent thought then. You chose to involve a subject in your post and yet confess to not understanding the elements in the issue. It may not change your point (which I agree with in terms of the cow being slaughtered) but generally it is better to observe the statement:

    “When in doubt , shut the f*** up.”

  36. Sunny — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:43 pm  

    from whichever cult of voodoo we are talking about.

    Clearly we’re too lowbrow for someone who doesn’t know the difference between Hinduism and Buddhism and think its all a cult of voodoo.

  37. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:44 pm  

    Where the fuck were they when thousands of cows were slaughtered across the UK

    Actually, I can remember some Hindu groups in the UK protesting and publically lamenting the mass cow slaughter at the time of foot and mouth.

  38. Dan — on 26th July, 2007 at 2:54 pm  

    Buddhism rejected caste, idol worship and the Vedas, although many Hindus have a deep respect for Gautama Buddha, particularly in Nepal where some people practice both Hinduism and Buddhism. But they are distinct religions and Buddhists do not believe that cows are any more sacred than ants or elephants.

  39. Soso — on 26th July, 2007 at 3:07 pm  

    This is a special cow. Its TB doesn’t present a danger as long as its meat and milk are never consumed, and as long as it is kept in isolation.

    Also, some members of the temple are willing to pay for treatment, and bovine TB can be treated.

    Let it live.

    As someone raised in a rural setting, I find cows fascinating. They’re friendly, they’re highly intelligent, and each one tends to have its distinct quirks and ‘personality’ traits.

    You even has to be careful of what you say when around them. Like the more intelligent breeds of domestic dogs they appear to be able to understand keywords in human speech.

    They sometimes *know* what you’re talking about.

  40. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 3:16 pm  

    Jagdeep,

    “”Im sorry but the cow needs to die and Hinduism or Buddhism has nothing to do with it”"

    “Except that they are two different religions, so it does matter for the purposes of discussing the issue. That’s what makes us highbrow. Please try and elevate yourself from your low point.”

    The issue here is not which particular religion is responsible for keeping a TB infected cow from the slaughterman, but whether it is endangering the health of the rest of the bovine community.

    SHAMBO must DIE! (whether he’s hindu or a buddist)

  41. ChrisC — on 26th July, 2007 at 3:22 pm  

    SHMABO must DIE

    There’s a (warm hearted) film in this somewhere

  42. Jagdeep — on 26th July, 2007 at 3:34 pm  

    The issue here is not which particular religion is responsible for keeping a TB infected cow from the slaughterman

    Yes, you have made your point about quite a few times now. It has been registered, we get it. Look, this is a highbrow site. We took your opinion the first time, repeating it over and over again, IN BLOCK CAPITALS no less, just makes you seem like a clodhopper throwing a tantrum.

    The difference between Hinduism and Buddhism matters because the facts matter. You are probably used to lowbrow sites and debates, as well as message boards for people with learning difficulties, and are probably feeling cold and bemused in this thread.

    Consider yourself to have been schooled in a fact, and thank us for educating you; we give you hope for your low brow to one day be raised a milimetre higher.

  43. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 4:03 pm  

    Jagdeep,

    “Yes, you have made your point about quite a few times now. It has been registered, we get it. Look, this is a highbrow site. We took your opinion the first time, repeating it over and over again, IN BLOCK CAPITALS no less, just makes you seem like a clodhopper throwing a tantrum.”

    No you dont get it. That much is obvious.

    “The difference between Hinduism and Buddhism matters because the facts matter. ”

    Thats not an answer – it’s a cop-out. Only important facts matter, and the flavour of religious lunacy which is aiding and abetting a fugitive TB cow is not the central question.

    The question relates to the wider communities health; which is far more important than your pedantic nonsense about religion.

    Lets see if you can answer a question Mr Theology smarty-pants:

    Should TB Shambo be allowed to live if there is a health risk to the wider bovine community?

  44. David T — on 26th July, 2007 at 4:10 pm  

    Isn’t “Shambo” considered a racist term these days?

  45. Sudip — on 26th July, 2007 at 4:30 pm  

    i think thats ‘Sambo’

  46. douglas clark — on 26th July, 2007 at 4:49 pm  

    Is it just me? What is wrong with ‘herds of cattle’? Do we really need to refer to them as ‘the wider bovine community’?

    Have I missed a PC class somewhere?

  47. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 4:54 pm  

    The BBC World are showing that Police are moving into suspect building, believed to be Shambos safehouse. Apparently Shambos partners in crime are a mixture of religionists.

    Come out with your hoofs up Shambo – we have you surrounded!

  48. Dan — on 26th July, 2007 at 5:01 pm  

    “Should TB Shambo be allowed to live if there is a health risk to the wider bovine community?”

    Yes, because of the danger to the national livestock and the implications this will have for the dairy and meat industry. Treatment is simply not an option as if this disease spreads, the costs of treatment would be prohibitive and the farming industry would be prevented from exporting their produce. More cows could suffer if Shambo was allowed to live and his disease was spread – he is evidently not in isolation as he is a temple animal and in constant contact with humans and other animals.

    But using this issue to insult Hinduism or any other religion is not helpful. A sensitive approach is likely to ensure that livestock are protected from TB by putting Shambo to death while ensuring the impact on community relations is minimised. In my opinion, Hinduism is flexible enough to allow for the destruction of this infected animal, with the possibility of offerings to deities (prasadam, etc) which could be paid for by the government as compensation for the loss of Shambo. It could be easily resolved.

  49. Dan — on 26th July, 2007 at 5:02 pm  

    Sorry, that should be “no, because of the danger to the national livestock …”

  50. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 5:17 pm  

    Dan
    “Should TB Shambo be allowed to live if there is a health risk to the wider bovine community?”

    “Yes, because of the danger to the national livestock and the implications this will have for the dairy and meat industry…”

    I think you meant No. But im in complete agreement.

    “But using this issue to insult Hinduism or any other religion is not helpful.”

    Sorry but i am fed up with religionists of whatever ilk thinking their faith is more important than UK legislation or health and safety guidelines.

    I dont discriminate against Hinduism as has been correctly pointed out – i dont know enough about it:-)

    In fact this case with Shambo is even more dangerous than a Jehova who wont allow a blood transfusion for their sick child. That is a crime against that one child. but in Shambos case – he could cause a widespread pandemic.

    Im not sure about the science of bovine tb strains jumping to humans, but perhaps that is also a possible.

    I just dont accept that these religious nutters have any right to respect when they endanger the rest of us with their fairy-tales.

  51. Nick Good (South Africa) — on 26th July, 2007 at 5:31 pm  

    A petition is the wrong approach, you need to burn down an embassy or 2, the British embassy in New Delhi would be a good start – demonstrate in large groups everywhere, burn British flags, go incandescent with frothing rage, threaten lots of violence, do a fair bit of it and blame the ‘root cause’ on UK agricultural policy. Have Hindu community spokespersons unconvincingly and weekly, with plenty of equivocation – condemn the violence – whilst threatening more if you don’t get your way

    It’s clear that this approach works, have these Hindu folks no imagination?

  52. Dan — on 26th July, 2007 at 5:32 pm  

    They are not “nutters”, they have a faith. If they were nutters, they would be shooting at the police. As it is, they are staging a peaceful protest, which is considerably less nutty than anti-abortionist Christians picketing abortion clinics to intimidate possibly vulnerable women in defence of “right to life”.

    As I said before, the Hare Krishnas did accept pest control measures in their kitchens in Soho, provided they were allowed to chant “Hare Krishna” while the pests were killed. So, there is room for compromise with Hindus and I wonder what measures the Welsh assembly has provided to achieve a peaceful resolution. I would suggest compensation for Shambo’s death and to allow devotees to be present at the slaughter and the incineration of the carcus to ensure his passing is ameliorated by some ritual. I don’t know if this would be enough, but at least some move should be made in this direction.

  53. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 5:44 pm  

    What a joke. On the BBC this looks like its turning into a standoff between Shambo, his bodyguard of elite monks, and the poor Police.

    In the background, i can hear Hare Krishna chanting. Poor Shambo – i bet he’ll be glad of escaping that cacaphony.

    Shambo is obviously a pawn in this whole affair. Cows are not advanced enough yet to set up this protest, print the flyers, answer the phones etc…

    Is Shambo a hindu? Of course he isnt…he’s a cow. It seems that poor Shambo has been manipulated and phsychologically abused by religious zealots.

    The animal welfare officials should be brought in to investigate. The religionists have kept Shambo in damp, dirty and miserable conditions.

    How dare they feign concern for Shambo when they have clearly used him as a publicity stunt.

  54. Sin Embargo — on 26th July, 2007 at 5:53 pm  
  55. Bissli — on 26th July, 2007 at 6:01 pm  

    Speaking as a vegetarian of 20 years, I obviously want Shambo to be saved. However, Bovine TB can be passed onto humans, not just through consumption but simply by breathing in any respiratory secretions and it is possible for one of the priests who tends to Shambo to contract TB and pass it on to someone else, even worse would be someone with a depleted immune system. Are the priests also in isolation?

  56. Mettaculture — on 26th July, 2007 at 6:28 pm  

    The point is that we have a system of rules tat deals with all communicable diseases in animals by quarantining or killing them.

    This is hardly scientific.

    Treating (which prevents infectiousness in most cases) and vaccinating animals according to the basic principles of epidemiology (the science of measuring disease in populations and interveneing to prevent transmission)is almost never used in Britian and this is because animals are seen as a part of agriculture rather than public health.

    So we mass cull, Badgers, cattle, sheep, foxes etc thats what the British do.

    Our plans for dealing with a Rabies outbreak are mass slaughter of almost every wild living thing (foxes, bats Owls, eagles)that could possibly transmit Rabies.

    Other countries vaccinate and treat index cases to prevent transmission, its more scientific and you get better compliance with farmers (who are likely to underreport anything if their whole herd is going to be slaughtered).

    Sometimes slaughter is necessary as is quarantine but we don’t even examin alternatives.

    The only reason we changed our ridiculous pet quarantine laws (allowing for vaccination) that traumatised animals and fed handsome profits to a government enforced business momopoly, was becaue Chris Patten wished to bring his pooches back from Hong Kong.

    We have an irrational slaughter driven animal disease control policy enacted by blockheads and scientific ignoramouses and an inflexible inhuman and inhumane beaurocracy.

    Don’t assume that Government policies are rational or effective or up to date scientifically jut because they are there and an official says ‘rules is rules’

  57. Lyndon — on 26th July, 2007 at 7:20 pm  

    Why does England dump so many of its weirdos in rural Wales? This is a poor area where many people depend on agriculture for jobs and livelihoods. Bovine TB is a serious threat to the local economy, which I suspect this bunch of bald English ex-hippies do not make a large contribution to.

  58. j0nz — on 26th July, 2007 at 7:36 pm  

    The plight of shambo is no more
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6916077.stm

    .. Jeez. What a load of Bullocks. If you want to worship cows with TB – Wales is NOT the place for it.

  59. j0nz — on 26th July, 2007 at 7:39 pm  

    I’m off to worship a rabbit with rabies. It’s going to be isolated and not eaten, so it’s not fair to slaugher da cute wabbit (that happens to the divine ruler of the universe, in disguise)

  60. El Cid — on 26th July, 2007 at 10:25 pm  

    a drooling yokel from Deliverance playing the banjo while we compose a symphony.

    makes you seem like a clodhopper throwing a tantrum.

    You are probably used to lowbrow sites and debates, as well as message boards for people with learning difficulties, and are probably feeling cold and bemused in this thread.

    Consider yourself to have been schooled in a fact, and thank us for educating you; we give you hope for your low brow to one day be raised a milimetre higher.

    You’re making me laugh Jagdeep. Thanks for that

  61. Clairwil — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:41 pm  

    I’d be willing to bet serious money that j0nz has at least one pair of comedy socks.

  62. Sunny — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:54 pm  

    As they would say in India….

    Shambo (nahi) khush hua!

  63. Don — on 26th July, 2007 at 11:59 pm  

    For those of us linguistically challenged, Sunny, what’s your take on this?

  64. douglas clark — on 27th July, 2007 at 12:20 am  

    At a HAG, for the fun of it:

    Shambo (this is obviously the cow, or heifer or beast),

    nahi, obviously some sort of exhortation, like get your bollocks under you,

    khush, seems reminiscent of the Scottish diaorrehea, also known as the runs..

    Hua! Clearly an exortation to get a move on.

    So, taking this a step by step, it means:

    Shambo, run, run away!

    Didn’t happen, so the translation is crap too…..

    So what does it really mean Sunny?

  65. Sunny — on 27th July, 2007 at 12:30 am  

    Well, I have been sceptical of this controversy because the Hindu Forum had made a big hoo-haa out of it. All they want is the next controversy to generate headlines for them.

    Although, I can see both sides of the story here, there is an element of silly idol worship here TBH. If these people find every cow life sacred then they should be rounding up cows in India who die in their thousands annually just suffocating from eating plastic bags.

    In India its common to see extremists from groups like the VHP make a big deal about one cow while ignoring 1000s others. There’s nothing sacred about particular cows. It’s either one or all of them.

    On the other hand I guess the Welsh authorities could have done more to listen to the worshippers.

    Of course I’m against the killing on principle as a vegetarian. But stuff like this makes me cynical.

    By the way, there’s a famous Bollywood saying: Mugambo Khush Hua (from a film, translated to: Mugambo is happy). I just added (nahi) to it.. which means not. Shambo is (not) happy.

  66. douglas clark — on 27th July, 2007 at 12:44 am  

    Sunny

    “Of course I’m against the killing on principle as a vegetarian. But stuff like this makes me cynical.”

    Of course it does, and you should re-read Mettacultures post @ 56, which seems to me to say it all. It is not, necessarily, avoidable, but we could minimise it.

    Thanks for the, accurate, translation, btw.

  67. Kulvinder — on 27th July, 2007 at 1:19 am  

    I was going to post something about their human essentialist bullshit (hahaha) being the same type of crappy essentialism used by animal rights lunatics, but they’re saying the cow is a more or less a god/incarnation right?

    I’ll defer to post #56 as it seems to say what i generally think. Every few years we seem to nuke pigs because of swine fever, sheep because of foot and mouth. We’ve apparently got ~97% of all BSE cases!!. Its why the cities hate the countryside.

  68. Jignesh Chander — on 27th July, 2007 at 4:05 am  

    Sunny says: Well, I have been sceptical of this controversy because the Hindu Forum had made a big hoo-haa out of it.

    So anything the Hindu Forum does needs to be treated with sceptism is it? Sunny has shown all those things he is accusing the Hindu Forum of: he himself is prejudiced, biased and a hypocrite.

    Healer, heal thyself.

  69. DavidG — on 27th July, 2007 at 12:39 pm  

    I understand the concerns of those who believe that any cow that has or may have TB should be slaughtered for the greater good. I sympathise with those farmers who have lost many more cows.

    I also recognise that for some, Hinduism, or indeed any religion, is mere supersrtition and is no justification for trating this animal differently from any other. I respect their point of view but disagree with them on both points.

    But it seems there is a case for trating this animal differently if that can be achieved in a way that does not pose a realistic danger to humans or other animals. It is not really a “pet” (it would be patronising ot the Hindus to call it that) but it may be more appropriate to treat as one, or as a zoo animal. I think that could have been justified to the farmers who have lost cows.

    Further, more reliable, tests could have been carried out to ascertain whether Shambo did indeed have, or carry, TB. It beggars belief that they were not.

    I know I’m going to sound like a Daily Mail reader now, but I really wonder whether, if this whole incident had involved Muslims rather than Hindus, the Welsh Assembly would have behaved with more caution.

  70. Sunny — on 27th July, 2007 at 1:25 pm  

    Sunny has shown all those things he is accusing the Hindu Forum of: he himself is prejudiced, biased and a hypocrite.

    Where’s the hypocrisy? Of course I’m biased, I’ve written criticising the Hindu Forum before. Why are you wasting my time? Do you expect me to take seriously a group that thinks a postage stamp is racist?
    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/115

  71. Montag — on 27th July, 2007 at 7:49 pm  

    Bovine TB can be passed onto humans

    After cooking? I think at this stage, that’s the only question left to ask.

  72. Android — on 28th July, 2007 at 2:51 pm  

    Why does David T of Harry’s Place (first comment) feel sorry for the priests? If the animal has TB and it could spread, then the animal has to be put down. If Shambo’s “owners” did become responsible for its spreading to other herds, would David T then feel sorry for them? They’re just superstitious people like all those who do religions. I respect their right to do religion, even if I don’t respect the religion itself. But that is not the same as respecting their “right” to keep a sick animal with a contageous disease that could affect the national herd, cause problems of the sort the United Kingdom saw with foot-and-mouth a couple or three years ago, with all the attendant expense of maintaining biosecurity. The best thing you could do for the priests, David T, is buy them some sessions with an analyst, to help them shake off this nonsense.

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