I am white but Jewish. El Cid is white but Spanish. Some white people are white but fed up with being mocked as chavs by other white people. I don’t think that’s fair, Jai, and you know I love you.

However, I would say that this white man — and I’m sure I’m not alone — does understand enough to have never done a bud bud accent in his life (unless it’s to wind Jai up) or disrespected an Asian shopkeeper for being Asian.

Considering the fact that you’ve never met me, don’t know me from Adam, and — since our previous interaction here on PP has been very limited indeed — I’m certainly not your friend, it is curious why you think it is acceptable for you to engage in such behaviour to “wind up” random Asian strangers across the internet when you at least appear to have sufficient common sense and decency not to do that to someone in person.

However, as Jagdeep said earlier, this is one of those issues which would be impossible for a white person to properly understand, which probably explains why you still “don’t get it” (including why an English person shouldn’t even do “bud-bud impressions” to a clenched-teeth-politely-grinning Asian friend, or why Apu’s outward persona would be so irritating to many Asians despite the underlying subversive nature of his depiction).

Time to wrap this thread up, I think, especially as Rohin’s already started a separate Apu-related discussion on his own new thread.

I also have an in law who was bodily removed from Harvey Nicks in London for abusing Paul and Heather McCartney.

As usual Jagdeep, you are a paragon of good sense.
However, I would say that this white man — and I’m sure I’m not alone — does understand enough to have never done a bud bud accent in his life (unless it’s to wind Jai up) or disrespected an Asian shopkeeper for being Asian.

I defend Simon’s right to do the bud bud playfully with his mate Tre after he himself did it. It might have suggested that Simon had perfected it in non-Asian company, but then he seemed to be a wannabe impersonator who did a lot of accents and a harmless clown. I also defend the Apu creation because it is just one parody among a myriad of parodies. It’s a judgement call. I guess we are in agreement

But that stuff is rampant in America and it flies alot of racist shit that people have to put up with. That’s the reality. I can see that. I doubt the Simpsons people even realise that though, they certainly don’t intend to create a mainstream coon caricature for a tiny minority in America, in fact they probably want him to represent good things. So it’s quite complex.

racism comes in in a wider context i feel – so those who feel they have not been made welcome – will be feeling extra sensitive about their accents.

The kind of behaviour we’ve been discussing is equally offensive to those of us who do not have “foreign accents”, including Asians actually born in this country.

However, some of your other points are spot-on, especially the whole insider/outsider dynamic.

Jagdeep,

I think your post #190 succinctly sums up the crux of the issue perfectly. Well said.

I remember when Jim Davidson used to do a character called Chalky who was a caricatured fried chicken eating, lazy Jamaican man with an accent straight out of plantation imagination. You couldnt get away with that today, or the spluttering hook nosed Shylock.

At the end of the day, ones reaction to the Apu stereotype will depend on life experience in that respect, and so from that angle, you wouldnt expect white people to understand.

!

its all about belonging.

racism comes in in a wider context i feel – so those who feel they have not been made welcome – will be feeling extra sensitive about their accents.

that’s my psychological analysis in a nutshell.

Jai, as you know I’ve been AWOL for quite some time on PP. But just going by this thread, can I ask something?

I’m going to mainly have to refer you to the link supplied by Sunny in post #167, along with the subsequent comments on that blog’s thread. It pretty much reflects my own point of view.

You say a white person doing a bud bud sing-song accent “makes your blood run cold”, right?

Yes, because for a very long time indeed — and to some extent it still happens — such activities were used as a way of deliberately undermining and insulting British Asians of all generations (particularly the elder folk), not just as a way of insulting “the other” but also motivated by notions of racial superiority.

So what about when a brown person does a piss-take sing song Welsh accent, or Jamaican accent, or Scottish, or deep South or…etc

Potentially all rude and inconsiderate, particularly in relation to ridiculing Jamaican accents. Brits of African and Caribbean origin have also been on the receiving end of racially-motivated abuse and ridicule as we all know, including imitations of their alleged accents (or exaggerated versions of them).

If, historically, such actions have generally been motivated by a desire to elicit laughter at the minority group rather than “laughing with them”, then it’s unacceptable. Regardless of whether the target’s Jamaican, Welsh, or whatever.

What about when I do a silly bud bud accent, I’m neither white nor brown?

Offensive if you personally don’t (a least partly) identify with being Asian. However, I believe this is not actually the case, correct ?

If there’s clearly no malice behind an impersonation, why is it so harmful?

The impact on the other person is key here. If it hurts them, makes them embarrassed, self-conscious, or generally uncomfortable (and this is often the case in relation to friends too — it’s not right to put them in a position where they have to grin politely due to their friendship with you whilst, inside, they don’t like what you’re doing), then you shouldn’t do it. Even if there’s no maliciousness in your own motivations.