Exclusive: Southall trouble for Conservatives


by Sunny
9th July, 2007 at 3:07 am    

There are strong rumours is confirmed news that Labour councillor Gurcharan Singh in Southall and 4 other buddies have defected to the Conservative Party. This would primarily because he was denied the chance to run as Labour’s man in Southall in the upcoming by-election. Cllr Virendra Sharma was chosen.

This is brilliant news for the Labour party not the Conservatives. Labour lose an extremely divisive and factional councillor who had paralysed the local party and made grand claims about having thousands of votes in the bag (councillors in Southall are near universally hated for their incompetence on almost all issues). The Tories have apparently lured him with promises of a seat in a different constituency, which is not only likely to immensely annoy the grassroots but brings in a factional, power-hungry operator who is neither young and fresh nor a long-standing Tory. Labour need to flush out all their lame candidates from the area and this could be a brilliant development.

Meanwhile, Jasdev Rai has decided to run as an independent candidate (full list here). This would be the guy from Sikh Human Rights Group closely associated with the banned Khalistani terrorist org ISYF. Lord help us.

Update: Iain Dale reckons the ‘Ealing Five‘ is great news for the Tories. Hah!

Update 2: The Guardian reports with some choice quotes by Sonika Nirwal.

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  1. Tom Watson MP » Blog Archive » Pickled Politics

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  2. Ministry of Truth » Never knowingly underspun

    [...] the floor and taking his mates with him. Sunny at Pickled Politics, who appears to have been first with news of Singh’s defection, some seven hours before Dale’s pip started squeaking thinks that Singh may well have been [...]


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  4. Ealing.Southall.com « OurKingdom

    [...] – right to call Grant Shapps’ (the Tories election manager) silly speech clutching at straws. Sunny Hundal at Pickled Politics offered a very interesting slant on the defection of the five councillors – was [...]


  5. Ealing.Southall.com « OurKingdom

    [...] – right to call Grant Shapps’ (the Tories election manager) silly speech clutching at straws. Sunny Hundal at Pickled Politics offered a very interesting slant on the defection of the five councillors – was [...]




  1. Praguetory — on 9th July, 2007 at 10:36 am  

    Rolling on the floor laughing at your post.

  2. Mato — on 9th July, 2007 at 10:44 am  

    Sorry Sunny. You wrote the original story when you thought only one, rather tricky, councillor had defected to the Tories. It now turns out that FIVE have jumped ship. In Southall terms, this is a minor earthquake.

    To try and spin it as good news for Labour (in the middle of a crucial by-election!) is simply surreal – almost a parody out of In The Thick Of It.

    You’re no fool, so stop digging…

  3. Praguetory — on 9th July, 2007 at 10:47 am  

    Once Labour have flushed out their lame councillors from the area will the be any left? Also, do you think they could move on to flushing out the wrong type of Labour voter? ;-)

  4. dizzy — on 9th July, 2007 at 10:52 am  

    what an odd spin.

  5. Twining or Black in Blue — on 9th July, 2007 at 10:54 am  

    Sunny on the previous thread Muslims in Britain my apologies if it was I that caused any offence.

  6. Tom Hunt — on 9th July, 2007 at 11:03 am  

    Is someone taking the michael!

  7. Passed ealing town hall this morning as the Labour photo op was in effect on the steps.
    Had problems picking out who was Sharma from the massed ranks of bald, old, asian men with a sprinkling of Sarderjis & the odd token Auntieji (providing security)
    Things were looking up as I spied a Tory campaign worker clutching balloons & banners bearing down on them at full speed ahead……..

  8. Leon — on 9th July, 2007 at 11:50 am  

    Getting rid of Gurcharan Singh is great news for Labour even better that he’s not gone indy and chosen the Tories (the local Labour party must be caught between breathing a sigh of relief and cracking up with laughter at this outcome). Sunny’s right about that defection at least.

    It’s interesting though that we’re getting a mini swarm of Tories on here, I wonder how many of them actually live in Southall and know the lay of the land there compared to those that don’t and are just taking their line from Dale/CCHQ?

  9. Mato — on 9th July, 2007 at 11:56 am  

    I’m no Tory, Leon. But I can spot bullshit – and claiming that the defection of five Labour councillors during a crucial by-election is daft.

  10. Leon — on 9th July, 2007 at 12:01 pm  

    I was talking about Prague and Dizzy.

  11. Praguetory — on 9th July, 2007 at 12:11 pm  

    Given that the five councillors were voted for by the local electorate, I assume they are not without support. This would be the case wherever they were standing and their endorsements are to be welcomed by the Conservatives.

    Maybe you can explain the “difference” in Southall.

  12. Leon — on 9th July, 2007 at 12:23 pm  

    So you admit ignorance of the area yet are happy about this outcome? Boy are you in for a surprise!

  13. Leon — on 9th July, 2007 at 12:38 pm  

    I know enough to know that Gurcharan is an opportunistic trouble making fool.

    Like I’ve said elsewhere given the back room idiocy he’s provoked in the last couple of weeks I reckon the Tories will come to regret him joining them. Short term gain for long term pain.

  14. Praguetory — on 9th July, 2007 at 12:38 pm  

    One third of the local Labour councillors defect and back another candidate. If the other 10 were to defect, presumably, by this logic it would represent another coup for Labour.

  15. ChrisC — on 9th July, 2007 at 1:36 pm  

    I do hope this until now wexcellent blog isn’t going to become a Labour (or any party’s) mouthpiece.
    Sunny Hundal MP?
    Lord Hundal of MediaLand?

  16. Henry Chevalier — on 9th July, 2007 at 1:37 pm  

    “…an extremely divisive and factional councillor…”

    In terms of issues around wholly unacceptable discourse, it turns my stomach to see a member of the Indian Diaspora councillor community described in terms that could have come direct from The BNP Handbook of Racist Clichés. What next? Members of the Black councillor community described as “aggressive and intellectually under-equipped”? Members of the Jewish councillor community described as “conspiratorial and corrupt”?

  17. MBoy — on 9th July, 2007 at 1:37 pm  

    I’m not a Tory, but to claim that the defection of 5 cllrs to another party just 2 weeks before a by-election is a *good* thing is just insane. It smacks of desperation in the camp.

  18. Charles — on 9th July, 2007 at 1:39 pm  

    Classic Lefty pravda-style spin. Mandelson would be proud.

  19. Leon — on 9th July, 2007 at 2:47 pm  

    Sunny Hundal MP?

    As much as we’ve joked on here about that very idea I doubt we’d see it any time soon…

  20. BUCF — on 9th July, 2007 at 3:00 pm  

    Is the post meant to be ironic that it is the day Campbells memoirs are published?

    ‘The era of spin is over’

    Judging by this post it certainly isn’t!!!!

  21. Nodn — on 9th July, 2007 at 3:36 pm  

    Sunny, the link to the list of candidates doesn’t work. And can’t you delete and edit? Why do you cross things out?

  22. Daljit — on 9th July, 2007 at 3:49 pm  

    Is Sunny as Labour supporter? His article was a masterpiece of spin. 5 Labour councillors defect to the Tories in what is close to being the last week of the poll and he thinks it will backfire on the Tories. Labour are finished in Southall, good riddance to party of cronyism and spin. Sharma must have had a heart attack when he heard!

  23. Katy Newton — on 9th July, 2007 at 4:55 pm  

    And can’t you delete and edit? Why do you cross things out?

    It’s so that everyone can see what he’s edited and how the post has changed, you big fussypants.

  24. Chris Paul — on 9th July, 2007 at 6:05 pm  

    The post was down for a while this morning while Sunny changed it from just Gurcharan defective to all five defectives. This really is not a terrible thing for local Labour people. The bullying from this Sikh old boy and his pals was very offensive indeed. If they start doing it to Cameron I’ll be very happy about that. While Piara Khabra stood for a secular and united constituency Gurcharan Singh appears to stand for a separatist Sikh state, for becoming a candidate with menaces, for turbans over politics, for men over women.

    It is hilarious that Des Pardes or Pardes Weekly (I think the latter although the former was blamed) accused LP of being communalist.

    Ans as Henry Chevalier raises the BNP then yes actually GS’s rhetoric does appear to be in the same neck of the woods as Griffin’s. But not for goodness sake Sunny’s which rejects that way of thinking.

    Some GS background links here.

  25. KSingh — on 9th July, 2007 at 6:57 pm  

    If Gurcharan Singh stood up against the human rights violations against Sikhs in India then he will get a lot of support from not only Sikhs but also Christians, Dalits and Muslims who have all suffered. Here is a link to reports by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch

    http://www.ensaaf.org/info/#hrw

    Remeber in the old days when Labour used to support human rights causes ?

  26. Neet — on 9th July, 2007 at 7:15 pm  

    Gurcharan Singh will stand for anything, he just wants a position of power. At one time he was even supporting the congress party, he doesn’t really care about human rights violations. He will jump on any bandwagon to get votes….hmm the tories sound like his kind of party.

  27. Rumbold — on 9th July, 2007 at 7:27 pm  

    I suspect that most local councillors are fairly egotistical and divisive. Gurcharan Singh must have some base of support because if he was as bad as you say, then the Labour party would have got rid of him unless he brought in some votes.

  28. Southall resident — on 9th July, 2007 at 7:43 pm  

    I found out about the defection earlier today, when we (in London) were having that really dramatic thunder storm, and didn’t know if I should be concerned about it or go out singing (in the rain).

    Having been to Council meetings I can tell you that the defectors very rarely took part in debates, some of them did not speak at all. They are completely undynamic, not very bright, lack initiative, hardly responsive and never proactive. That’s why very little has been done for Southall in recent times regardless of who is in power at the council.

    Ealing/Southall used to be a Labour run council, but the Tories took control last year due to their anti-tram campaign. Have there been any changes in central Southall as a result of this change in administration? No. Why? Because the Councillors are crap!

    Also Tory Councillors used to refer to them as ‘basket cases’ from Southall in council meetings, so it’ll be interesting to see how the new comrades get on. Lol.

    I’m glad Labour in Ealing/Southall is shot of its dead weights- it may be painful in the short term – but at least we no longer have to deal with the chunks of the local party that had gone wayward, and the party as a whole can return to its socialist and democratic roots. Many labour supporters in the area from all backgrounds, and a variety of ages, had been waiting to this for some while. Did anyone notice those few rays of sunshine after the storm?

  29. Neet — on 9th July, 2007 at 8:35 pm  

    Daljit
    I can gladly tell you that I have never voted for Gurcharan Singh as I don’t live in Southall. But his reputation precedes him; and not in a good way. My views on the whole Sikh MP issue are mixed, partly because of the lack of strong candidates in this by-election. I would have been more then happy to see Sonika Nirwal or even Dr Hirkirtan Singh standing. As both seemed fairly intelligent and seemed to reflect the party values. We should be wanting to elect the best of the best but clearly the labour selection panel failed to even give their members a real choice. However we shouldn’t just have any old person elected just because they are Sikh. I’d love to see a British Sikh who is pro-Khaistani (yes that’s right I said the ‘K’ word! I’m waiting for the barrage of anti-Khalistani postings) who is also a person of conviction and intelligence in the House of Commons. But that doesn’t seem to be an option in Southall.

    Also in regards to your point regarding the hypocrisy of labour supporters (FYI I personally am not a labour supporter but I am left-wing). Is it not hypocritical of Gurcharan Singh to defect to a party he has criticised for so many years?

  30. Randeep — on 9th July, 2007 at 8:53 pm  

    Gurcharan Singh in ‘my’ opinion did the right thing. The Labour Party (again, in my opinion) seemed to have engineered the process for selecting their bi-election candidate. How is it, that Sedgefield end up with 5 potential candidates yet in Southall we only had 2. One of which was a relative unknown leaving it wide open for the other (no points for guessing which one is Sharma). So, putting myself in G Singh’s shoes, I would have done the same thing. If your own party rejects you after so many years of service what options do you have left.

    Also, all this talk about his ego and him being power hungry, etc. seems a little unfounded. The man has done quite alot for the local community and I’m not just talking about Sikhs here.

    Leon/Sunny, how about some clearly defined examples in the midst of your banter?

    Assumptions, hearsay and personal opinions is all I’m reading from you both…

  31. Sunny — on 9th July, 2007 at 10:01 pm  

    it turns my stomach to see a member of the Indian Diaspora councillor community described in terms that could have come direct from The BNP Handbook of Racist Clichés

    I’m sorry, was this meant to be a serious question? I’m not representing any ‘community’ and if I think some carpet-bagger councillor is divisive then that is my prerogative. If it makes you sick that’s not my problem. Try not to throw up all over my blog.

    Allow me to explain this development further.

    The defection of the 5 councillors will make no difference to people’s votings… its not as if GS and his crew ‘own’ votes. Whether the Gurudwara endorses Sharma or GS, it makes very little difference.

    This move is all about momentum. The Tories think momentum is building on their side and if enough people jump ship and the media portray Southall as having serious problems then people may think twice about voting for them. But as yet GS’s move will make a few headlines here and there… but for your normal uncleji-auntiji crew in Southall broadway it will make little difference.

    Either way, at least its the Tories who have now inherited GS and his factionalism. Its good news for Labour.

  32. KSingh — on 9th July, 2007 at 10:03 pm  

    A lot Sikhs that cam over in the 60′s and 70′s spent a lot of time working and never told their kids about their religion or history. So you some that are fairly confused types who will talk about various causes but are ignorant of their own suffering. However a new generation of educated Sikhs are coming forward and taking on these people. Hence terms used as terrorist, fanatic, intolerant are freely used as meek defense when they are challenged.

  33. lithcol — on 9th July, 2007 at 11:42 pm  

    Sectarian politics! Stuff it. No hope of fair representation for any one.

  34. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 1:07 am  

    A lot Sikhs that cam over in the 60’s and 70’s spent a lot of time working and never told their kids about their religion or history. So you some that are fairly confused types who will talk about various causes but are ignorant of their own suffering.

    No they are not ignorant. They just hate backward looking fanatical politics based on a twisted form of religion and politics that breeds hatred and violence and makes people like you make veiled threats like this:

    However a new generation of educated Sikhs are coming forward and taking on these people. Hence terms used as terrorist, fanatic, intolerant are freely used as meek defense when they are challenged.

    Take them on? Where are you going to ‘take them on’? In the wrestling ring? On the kabaddi pitch? If you mean in politics, well, the assault against Islamists has given confidence to all those who want to confront narrow minded bigoted religious nationalistic bullies and extremists no matter what their stripe and religion. Sikh extremists will go the same way. Fanatics and the intolerant, educated or not, will always be caught and identified and faced down in a secular liberal democratic society. No amount of screaming or protest will change that. No matter how much you may wish, this is not Punjab or some backwater Khalistan Taliban fantasy land.

    The bullies and fanatics are on the run.

  35. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 1:24 am  

    Overall I am very impressed by the knowledge of several of the bloggers and journalists and contributors who have quite extensive knowledge of the ideologies and communalism at play here. It is good to know that the wool cannot be pulled over peoples eyes, and there are people who take the trouble to understand the underlying dynamics of things. True multiculturalism rejects this and we must always be vigilant especially when attempts are made to assert the sectarian causes at a political level under the guise of multiculturalism. We have to be vigilant to protect our multicultural society and sectarians from all backgrounds.

    A reassertion of firm secular liberal democratic politics is needed across all our communities. The communalists have to be faced down.

  36. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 1:31 am  

    I have noticed that on message boards anonymous people are claiming that Virendra Sharma is a member of the RSS. This sounds to me a typical extremist slur designed to add a communalist dimension to this election and depict Sharma as a Hindu fundamentalist. It appears to be the classical trick of slander. Piara Khabra was also slandered as a self hating Sikh and a representative of the fascist Indian state blocking realisation of Sikh communalist nationalist aspirations. If anyone has evidence of Sharma being an RSS member put up the evidence. He can then address this on the campaign trail.

    If it is not the case it is evidence of the brainless unhinged extremist slander typical of Khalistanis on the internet, and another reason for them to be held in contempt and with maximum caution. Made by people who are too cowardly to give their names and contact details when making these claims.

  37. Daljit — on 10th July, 2007 at 6:23 am  

    Just as in the 50′s we had the ‘reds under the bed’ scare we now have the ‘Khalistanis in the kaunsal’ scare! The pinkos on this blog never fail to amaze me in their hatred of the Sikh cause. Hamas and suicide bombings are ok because these are against the Jews, sorry I meant to say Zionist imperialists warmongers! Mind you many pinkos couldn’t care less for any difference because their anti-Israeli Pro-Hamas line is just a cloak for their hatred of Jews. They also hate any Nationalist movement that doesn’t fit into their ‘anti-imperialist, anti-american’ mindset. Also a movement which seeks to liberate an area from a ‘trendy’ country like India would never get any support from our pinko friends. To them India is akin to M K Gandhi, any criticism of India for them is a criticism of this deified individual. Did anyone manage to see ‘War against Britain’s Jews’ last night on channel 4? What an eyeopener! People like our friend Sunny who I’m sure if he wasn’t at last summer’s ‘We are all Hazbollah now’ protests was at some ‘anti-imperialist’ workshop. The programme did much to explain the Hamasphilia and the khalistanophobia of these lefties.

  38. KSingh — on 10th July, 2007 at 7:09 am  

    I see Sukhi is upset that Sharma has been found out as a Hindu extremist, will the tirade start against Sharma or is this reserved just for Sikhs? The old group of illiterates that called themselves communists (though they were the best captalists) and ran the old Labour party in Southall is coming to an end. The electorate are talking about it, Sikhs have had to put up with this rubbish from unrepresentative leaders for to long.You can attack the Sikhs as much as you like , but awarness is there in the community this time.

  39. Daljit — on 10th July, 2007 at 10:31 am  

    KSingh

    You are right. Whereas communism has been discared into the dustbin of history the various ragtag clique of old fogies are running the Labour party in Southall. Most of them are members of the Indian Workers Association an organisation that has direct links to the Indian government. It seems that some kind of pressure may have been applied on the Labour selection committee by Keith Vaz who is another India government yes man. No wonder there is so much resentment against Labour in Southall at the moment. I wonder what the ordinary members of the Labour party feel about the Indian government connection? Sharma supporters such as Sukhi are getting desperate as his campaign is unreveling fast. Roll on 19th of July I say!

  40. Praguetory — on 10th July, 2007 at 12:25 pm  

    Another defection today – more good news for Labour, I presume?

  41. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 12:34 pm  

    Daljit and KSingh

    Unsabstantiated slander, racism, scaremongering, insult, paranoid conspiracising, communalism — these are the meat and gristle upon which you chew and feed. I don’t support Sharma and I would have preferred Sonika Nirwal to have been selected. But the politics of extremist fanatic religious nationalism, the bigotry, religious fanaticism and hatred fomented as your politics is a vicious brew, and one that must be confronted and refuted whenever it rears its ugly head.

  42. Vladimir — on 10th July, 2007 at 4:04 pm  

    Wanted to make some points:

    Don’t you just love it when people start off with “I am not a Tory but…”

    And I think with the stats that are well known from BBC and other sources I think Labour are still going to win even if they have a monkey standing for them, So at the end of the day these defections don’t mean a fuckin’ thing (to put iit simply).

    Oh and by the way I am not Tory scum.

  43. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 4:04 pm  

    I don’t have anything to do with the Labour party Daljit.

    Fanatics/Khalistanis/Communalists/Extremists are people whose agendas need to be confronted and put under scrutiny. Those terms are applicable to any number of people. For example, JS Rai, a man associated with a proscribed terrorist and extremist organisation, must be seen in the context from which he emerges. As much as it causes you discomfort, these are the consequences of plying the political trade in a secular democracy; you are scrutinised and answerable and no amount of knee jerk insult or denigration of those who point these things out changes this.

  44. Leon — on 10th July, 2007 at 4:10 pm  

    Don’t you just love it when people start off with “I am not a Tory but…”

    Yep. File with those statements that start “I’m not a racist but…”…

  45. Chairwoman — on 10th July, 2007 at 4:39 pm  

    Sunny – You are a spoilsport. Not only have you removed Muzamdar’s comment, but Sukhi’s superb put-down.

    I know it’s your sand-pit and you get to decide who can play, but some people enjoy the occasional Troll baiting, or reading it :-)

  46. Leon — on 10th July, 2007 at 4:42 pm  

    Another defection today – more good news for Labour, I presume?

    What’s your view on the latest update to this story?

  47. sid — on 10th July, 2007 at 4:48 pm  

    They say the neon singhs cause fright on Broadway…

  48. Katy — on 10th July, 2007 at 4:55 pm  

    File with those statements that start “I’m not a racist but…”

    Easy, dude! Tories and racists not the same thing :-D

    (No, I’m not.)

    (Either.)

  49. Sunny — on 10th July, 2007 at 5:01 pm  

    Sunny – You are a spoilsport.

    That, auntieji, I shall accept. But most Picklers are quite bored with his trolling now so the internal decision has been taken to delete all his comments from now on.

  50. Chairwoman — on 10th July, 2007 at 5:03 pm  

    Sid @ 50 – Absolutely brilliant!

  51. sid — on 10th July, 2007 at 5:58 pm  

    Thanks chairy, now I can’t get that song out of my head :-(

    I’ll echo sonia and ask why no post on the events in Islamabad?

  52. Rumbold — on 10th July, 2007 at 6:04 pm  

    “But most Picklers are quite bored with his [Muzumdar's] trolling now so the internal decision has been taken to delete all his comments from now on.”

    As Chairwoman said Sunny, it is your site. However, Muzumdar does get involved properly in enough discussions to make the ‘trolling’ tag unwarrented. He very rarely uses bad language, and does provide a different perspective on issues that we would probably not get elsewhere- he is Pickled Politics’ resident Khalistani. Please unban him.

  53. sid — on 10th July, 2007 at 6:19 pm  

    I think the sun shines out his behind. I prize his mixture of rant and insight.

  54. KSingh — on 10th July, 2007 at 6:53 pm  

    Daljit wrote,

    ‘You are right. Whereas communism has been discared into the dustbin of history the various ragtag clique of old fogies are running the Labour party in Southall. Most of them are members of the Indian Workers Association an organisation that has direct links to the Indian government. It seems that some kind of pressure may have been applied on the Labour selection committee by Keith Vaz who is another India government yes man.’

    Here are a few comments on Mr Sharma’s main supporter, and another of India’s representatives in the UK

    BBC

    Keith Vaz was elected MP for Leicester East in 1987, and became the first Asian minister in the Commons in 1999. But his recent career has been dogged by accusations of financial wrongdoing.

    ——————————————————————————–

    February 2000: Parliamentary standards watchdog Elizabeth Filkin is asked to investigate allegations of undisclosed payments to Mr Vaz from businessmen in his constituency.

    25 January 2001: Opposition MPs begin to question the role the minister for Europe may have played in helping the billionaire Indian Hinduja brothers – linked with a corruption probe in India – to secure UK passports.

    26 January 2001: Prime Minister Tony Blair backs Mr Vaz on the Hinduja affair, saying he does not believe he has done anything wrong.

    4 February 2001: Allegations in Sunday newspapers of financial irregularities in the funds of Mr Vaz’s local Leicestershire East Labour Party.

    Opposition MPs call for him to resign, but he is supported by several government ministers.

    12 March 2001: The Filkin report clears him of nine of 18 allegations of various financial wrongdoings.

    Elizabeth Filkin accused Mr Vaz of obstructing her inquiries

    But he is criticised for blocking her investigation into eight of the allegations.

    And he is censured for one allegation – failing to register two payments worth £450 in total from Sarosh Zaiwalla, a solicitor whom he recommended for an honour several years later.

    14 March 2001: William Hague, the then Conservative leader, calls on Mr Blair to sack Mr Vaz.

    21 March 2001: Mrs Filkin announces a new inquiry, focusing on whether or not a company connected to Mr Vaz received a donation from a charitable foundation run by the Hinduja brothers.

    29 March 2001: Mr Vaz collapses while filming a television interview, and goes on extended sick leave.

    5 June 2001: A BBC investigation suggests Mr Vaz did not disclose all his property interests to Mrs Filkin’s previous inquiry.

    11 June 2001: Mrs Filkin says she is widening her Vaz-Hinduja inquiry to cover the disclosure of property interests.

    12 June 2001: Mr Vaz resigns and is replaced as Minister for Europe in the post-General Election reshuffle.

    8 February 2002: The second Filkin inquiry rules Mr Vaz should be suspended for one month for “serious breaches” of the MPs’ code of conduct, and a contempt of the House of Commons.

  55. Jai — on 10th July, 2007 at 7:11 pm  

    I prize his mixture of rant and insight.

    Agreed. I’m afraid I’m going to have to add my vote to the “Save Mazumdar” campaign.

    He’s like the uncle that you’re terrified about inviting to the next family gathering in case he offends pretty much everyone you know yet again, but who frequently also talks a hell of a lot of sense.

  56. KSingh — on 10th July, 2007 at 7:21 pm  

    Sukhi wrote

    ‘But the politics of extremist fanatic religious nationalism, the bigotry, religious fanaticism and hatred fomented ‘

    Ah I thought I had seen that some where,oh its India you are talking about

    1984 Attack on the Golden Temple 6,000 pilgrims murdered by the army

    1984 massacre of Sikhs by the Congress Party (You know that secular party). 10,00o Sikhs killed

    General Genocide in Punjab 1984 to 1995 250,000 Sikhs killed.

    Kashmir, Nagaland, Assam, Babri Masjid, BJP in Gujrat.Killings of Muslims , Christians, Dalits.

    I suppose by exposing this I must be one of the phrases from your Template.
    Just look at those websites of the extremist, fanatical, communalist , Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch

  57. Daljit — on 10th July, 2007 at 7:46 pm  

    >>Sunny – You are a spoilsport. Not only have you removed Muzamdar’s comment, but Sukhi’s superb put-down.

    I know it’s your sand-pit and you get to decide who can play, but some people enjoy the occasional Troll baiting, or reading it

  58. Daljit — on 10th July, 2007 at 7:53 pm  

    >>>>Sunny – You are a spoilsport. Not only have you removed Muzamdar’s comment, but Sukhi’s superb put-down.

    I know it’s your sand-pit and you get to decide who can play, but some people enjoy the occasional Troll baiting, or reading it

  59. leon — on 10th July, 2007 at 8:01 pm  

    Trolling is more than using swear words, it’s a tedious pass time and derails interesting discussions (along with screwing up a good feeling of community).

  60. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 8:07 pm  

    KSingh, the logic you’re employing is very similar to that used by Islamic fundamentalists.

    Just because of the injustices of history or the ‘enemy’ entity, it supposedly justifies the demonisation, fanaticism, bigotry and atavistic hatred and extremism propounded in the name of their own cause.

    It’s a form of logical and intellectual autism in the same vein as the ‘Uncle Tom’ blockheads who make that kind of slander as soon as they are criticised or confronted.

    It’s the fury and flourish of a drowning man.

    Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch don’t preach hatred or retribution or communalist fervour and fundamentalism as a response to historical and political grievances.

  61. Rumbold — on 10th July, 2007 at 8:17 pm  

    Yey! Thanks Sunny.

  62. Rumbold — on 10th July, 2007 at 8:29 pm  

    Sukhi:

    Nobody is saying that Muzumdar is perfect. As Sunny deleted the post, I was not able to read your rebuttal of Muzumdar; Chairwoman says that it was brilliant, which is good enough for me. Surely that is the best response?

    Sunny, like any moderator, has a difficult job keeping order. To his credit, he does it rather well, and those who go beyond the pale are usually cast out to general applause. A blog, despite being the ‘property’ of the owner(s), lives or dies by its audience. The fact that a number of persons here want to keep Muzumdar (despite disagreeing with most of his statements) is evidence that he does not disrupt the feeling of community felt on this site.

  63. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 8:35 pm  

    Well Rumbold, you tickle him too, and have not been gratuitously insulted by him, so none of that matters to you. Nevertheless, take the issue up with the moderators. I suggest you address your protests to Sunny Hundal.

  64. Rumbold — on 10th July, 2007 at 9:21 pm  

    I have been insulted more than once by Muzumdur (in his previous guise of Naxal 1849). I just choose not to take it so personally. As should you.

  65. Sunny — on 10th July, 2007 at 10:42 pm  

    I don’t really care if someone starts up a petition in favour of Muzumdar. He’s not coming back and that is that. The idiot has no brains and he is thoroughly bigoted. I don’t want him here. End of discussion.

    People like our friend Sunny who I’m sure if he wasn’t at last summer’s ‘We are all Hazbollah now’ protests was at some ‘anti-imperialist’ workshop. The programme did much to explain the Hamasphilia and the khalistanophobia of these lefties.

    Lmao! I love these new terms people keep inventing. For the record I think Hamas are an anti-semitic terrorist organisation.

  66. Sukhi — on 10th July, 2007 at 11:07 pm  

    Rumbold, thanks for the advice, but it’s no advice at all.

  67. Praguetory — on 11th July, 2007 at 12:12 am  

    New here, but I can’t see why the chap was banned. Poor show. Very thin-skinned.

  68. Clairwil — on 11th July, 2007 at 1:04 am  

    Praguetory
    I supported the ban, not because of his views but his habit of abusing other commentators whilst expressing them. Particularly on yesterdays guest post. You won’t be able to see why he was banned as all his comments were removed in the hope he’d get the hint and go bother some other blog.

  69. KSingh — on 11th July, 2007 at 7:04 am  

    More good news for Labour Khalastani Muslims and Hindus join the Tories

    From The Times
    July 11, 2007
    More defections likely as Labour by-election campaign fractures
    Greg Hurst, Political Correspondent

    Labour faces further defections from its campaign to hold a stronghold seat in a by-election, amid signs of fracturing of support for the party among ethnic minority voters.

    The Times understands that the Conservatives are preparing to announce that another group of senior local Labour figures in Ealing Southall are to switch sides, including a prominent member of the Hindu community.

    It comes after the defection yesterday of a sixth Labour councillor, a Muslim, to David Cameron’s party, a day after five Labour colleagues on Ealing council, all Sikhs, quit to join the Tories before the parliamentary by-election on July 19.

  70. Robert — on 11th July, 2007 at 6:30 pm  

    I think it comes down purely to editorial. In the mainstream press, you have contributors and a letters page, and ultimately the editor decides what goes in and what stays out, based on their own judgement of what is informative and entertaining.

    Its is more difficult to do this process online, but I think the same rules should apply. If Sunny, or Leon or whoever feels that the quality of debate and entertainment is being damaged by a particular commenter, then I see no problem in cutting them out.

    But just like an editor in the press, the online editor needs to have a pretty good, open transparent reason why someone has been banned, in order to maintain credibility. I think the PP editors have met that requirement in this instance.

    Perhaps a useful counter-point might be the recent banning of Tim Ireland from Ian Dale’s blog? Were the reasons Tim banned justified? Or was Ian merely supressing views he did not like, or found too difficult to argue against.

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