“That seems very racist to me”…”People dont treat Islam, its theology, its history, its language, etc. as serisouly as they do Christianity or Judaism because it isnt apart of the Western narative.”

Poor deluded diddums! The reality is that Islam is treated with far more tolerance in non-Islamic countries than vice versa. Thailand, Pakistan, Saudi, Egypt, Indonesia – every day there are (under-reported) hate crimes against Christians and other religious minorities in Islamic majority countries.

So perhaps this “Western narative” of yours, which you find so blameworthy, is in fact responding to the hate and contempt emanating from your authoritarian religion. After all, Buddhism and Hinduism – two religions avowedly outside the “Western narative” – are treated with respect in the West as they allow far more leeway for co-existence.

“Dude,
Islam is not a race.”

I’ve given this fact, that Islam isnt a race, alot of thought. I have come to the conclusion that because so many consider Islam and Arabs synonymous it might as well be. People dont treat Islam, its theology, its history, its language, etc. as serisouly as they do Christianity or Judaism because it isnt apart of the Western narative. That seems very racist to me, because if Islam were associated, not with the Arab or the Oriental, but with the Westerner of the White man, perhaps it would be treated differently. Maybe there wouldnt be so many people who have read the Quran, albeit in Englsih, and wouldnt consider them experts on the religion, and the Arab pysche. Its about respect. That same respect, not to be confused with affection, is given to the Western traditions, which convinces me that while most want it to be an ideas thing, the sentiments that lie beneathe are very racial and ethnic.

“I prefer Christianity to Islam because I prefer the peaceful message of the New Testament to the violent, misogynist message of the Koran.”

I prefer Islam to Christianity because I prefer to truthful message of the Quran to the falsehood of the New and Old Testament.

OP next time your government wants to invade another country of Darul Islam please think of your peaceful New Testament and stay the hell out of our countries unless you are invited like in the case of Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.

“The practioners of each, their skin colour, their behaviour is neither here nor there. ”

In Islam it is a bit different. We are taught, in theory, that our actions are a dawah, a call to Islam ,so for that reason we should have the best of manners unless we must take a different course of actions depending on the circumstances. That shouldnt be too unreasonable.

BTW Old Pick, when you were going on your tirade about Arabs over there on Blogistan, why werent you thinking about, “The practioners of each, their skin colour, their behaviour is neither here nor there.” “Race is something nobody can help. To dislike someone on grounds of race is bigotry.?”

What the hell is Islamism? The Sharia doesnt use such terms to describe crack crazy Muslims perhaps you should open up your Islamo-glossary because you are gonna confuse the very few people on planet Earth who actually have the knowledge to speak about such matters. R. Spencer not included.

BTW tell that dumb bell to stop referring to Umdat as Salik or The Reliance of the Traveller to explain every things Muslims do, the “Wahhabis” will be infuriated to be associated with such sufi garbage.

Now why would the member of the “Religion of Peace” pour gasoline on a woman and set her on fire when in the “Religion of Peace” you can neither punish the living with fire or cremate the dead with fire? Maybe this jerk off was watching too many Bollywood films before he went on his crime spree.

Perhaps you should compare text with actions than open your gaping mouth. Oh but thats right, because Islam isnt a Western religion it neither deserves our respect or an indepth survery because after all how complicated and indepth can the religion of the A-rabs be?

That reminds me since I have read the Torah, or at least the first five books of the bible I should become a rabbi. Its gotta be that simple.

Yes Yes Yes, Old Bikhair is here to enlighten and be annoyingly sarcastic but she doesnt know for how long.

Shabot Shalom!!!

The interesting thing for me is to see what discourses emerge most powerfully from it – as people will want to use any controversy to bolster their own world-view. It will give a clue as to where the French ruling classes wants to go and which groups have the strongest voices in opposing them.

Will it be “blame the Muslims”, “blame the Government”, “Blame the ideology of secularism”, “blame the media”, “blame the rumour-mongers”, etc etc….

My guess is we will be looking for solutions and supporting analyses which keep us feeling righteous. And maybe this is happening on this thread. What do we really know?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nypost/20051104/cm_nypost/whyparisisburning

I want to what do you think about these articles by Razi Azmi.

The state(s) of the Ummah
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_3-3-2005_pg3_2

The elusive Ummah — II
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_10-3-2005_pg3_2

Succession in the Ummah — III
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_17-3-2005_pg3_2

The historical Ummah — IV
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_24-3-2005_pg3_2

Do you think these are all lies ?

Why do converts to Islam become hostile to their previous faith and cultures ? Why do Iran refuse to recognize Navroz?Why do Pakistan allow people to steal bricks from Harappa and Mohenjodaro sites?Why do Pakistan Neglects it’s pre-islamic architectural sites like Taxila?Why do Afgans thinks that Bamian Budhhas and all other Budhhist sites are works of Satan?

Why do a Western educated person like Imran Khan instead of embracing tolerance and secularism become a rabble rousing friend of the Mullahs and spews venom on the West where he spent most of his life and which has donated most generously to his hospital?Is it all oppurtunitism and hypocrisy to typical of South Asian politicians?

Why do Bangladesh become an enemy of India?Why do Bangladesh become a radicalized muslim country within a span of 10 years ?

Speaking as someone who isn’t particularly religious its always lol amusing when people who are very much inclined that way get into a penis contest.

I prefer Christianity to Islam because I prefer the peaceful message of the New Testament to the violent, misogynist message of the Koran. The practioners of each, their skin colour, their behaviour is neither here nor there.

OP – I assume you prefer Christianity not on the basis of the actual New Testament but because of how Christians behave now. Christians in Eastern Europe for example are still very sexist and mysoginistic.

Wow, Sunny, you pick the soft and fluffy topics, don’t you

The bitterness brewing process:

* A poor economic situation (for the country as a whole, not just immigrants)
* Social tensions that spring from that situation
* French identity crisis as globalisation wallops la gloire (this makes lashing out at others all the more likely)
* a history that is horrific on both sides (massacres of immigrants in Paris and civilian French colonists in Algeria, just 40 odd years ago)
* racist cops (oh yeah) (anyone seen La Haine?)
* angry 2nd/3d generation kids who don’t feel either French or Algerian
* making some of them turn to radical Islam (as in radical, not as in Islam itself) for identity, and so rejection of all others, even their nominal fellow Muslims
* and others still just to be plain old jerks, without a radical imam in sight

I could go on, but I guess I’m already in enough trouble to start with.

I hear similar stories here in Holland all the time. Untangling this mess is going to be very difficult.

I think you and I could easily agree about many of the right things for the authorities to do. The hijab ban, for example, was, for me, petty and stupid.

What I’d ask is for you to see how perfect the storm is, including, for want of a less inflammatory word, cultural issues. I don’t think you give them enough weight and are sometimes too quick to find fault with government systems rather than complex disasters with every root cause under the sun.

Dutch bluntness: France has lots of Vietnamese immigrants facing all the same problems, right up to shared awful history. Why don’t they riot?

This could get worse. Rather than tackling the legitimate issues, France might only crack down harder, in all the wrong ways. Making the storm even more perfect, with lots of help from the jerks in the banlieues.

Both sides must change.

I am also conservative politically, but sometimes prefer individual left wingers over individual right wingers.

Skin colour is profoundly irrelevant. Nearly all the people I have ever hated have been white. But I can’t stand Darcus Howe, who is a vainglorious twat.

I totally agree about that. You should always get to know someone and never reject them on the basis of a label.

Believe it or not, you can intensely dislike Islam and like individual Muslims. Alternatively you can like and approve of Christianity but dislike any individual Christian.

But to dislike ‘blackness’, ‘brown skin’ or whatever is just bigotry because it precludes getting to know anything about the individual.

Because you seem to be making excuses here. Either the mysogny and violence is there, or it isn’t.

Just saying it is not practiced or is historical accounts is you trying to shift your stance since the same applies to the Qu’ran.

And yes, religion is a set of beliefs that can be rejected or accepted. But it is still being bigoted to hate or reject someone because of a label without getting to know them first.