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  • Site Meter

    The Tony Blair resigns open thread


    by Leon on 10th May, 2007 at 2:31 pm    

    Blairs ten year poll ratings

    Right, everyone and their dog has given their opinion on Blair’s resignation as Labour party leader, time for an open thread. He’s announced he’s stepping down as leader and after the leadership election will step down as PM on June 27th. The LibDems have called for a General Election, do we need one? Cameron has said, well, not very much so over to you picklers…



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    64 Comments   |  


    1. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 2:34 pm  

      I’m beyond Blair. I’m just thinking, gobsmacked, amazed, that there’s a good chance that the no mark David Cameron will be the leader of our nation within the next couple of years.

    2. contrarymary — on 10th May, 2007 at 2:48 pm  

      this has been on the radio, all day. who gives a f**k?? Blair’s been a lame duck for the better part of two years. His legacy will be the Iraq fiasco, lying to the people and spin. Though he should be ashamed of himself for being a Labour PM and making university exclusive to those with money.
      All this out of touch, media turning against him is what happens everytime someone’s been in power for that long… it happened with the tories reign ended in 1997. The media and public get bored, it’s been the same old shit (different day) for a decade. And for that reason I agree with jagdeep there is a real chance that Cameron will get in. I hope not. I’m with the Greens. It’s a tired cliche but Labour/Tories, are the same thing, just different marketing. Yawn.

    3. Bert Preast — on 10th May, 2007 at 2:54 pm  

      Yeah, I think Cameron will get in. Everybody I know has had quite enough of New Labour, even those who liked them a couple of years back.

      I don’t see a snap general election though, so Brown will be PM for a while. Can’t see him turning anything around or even doing anything interesting at all much, so he’s not going to be there for long.

    4. sid — on 10th May, 2007 at 2:57 pm  

      The low point as designated on that chart is slap in the middle of ‘06 and ‘07, but it’s not labelled.

      What was the event?

    5. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 2:59 pm  

      People will be fed up of Labour in two years when Brown calls the election, and Cameron will be our leader out of apathy and wanting to get rid of New Lab, not because people are enthusiastic about him. And he’s such a wet, how embrassing to even have him as our PM. Milliband will be the next Labour leader after Brown.

    6. Leon — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:00 pm  

      The low point as designated on that chart is slap in the middle of ‘06 and ‘07, but it’s not labelled.

      What was the event?

      Not sure, didn’t his polls take a dip because of his support for Israel and their invasion last summer (Mod alert! This isn’t an invitation for anyone to derail into i/p)?

    7. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:13 pm  

      Y’know, you could plot a sort of trend line through that graph, steadily weakening support, over a decade. If that’s true, and he’d stayed on, around 2012, he’d have been off the bottom of the chart.

      What’s the point about having a general election? Blair and Cameron are out of the same mould. Let’s see whether Brown can actually turn things around for Labour. Though I doubt it.

      How about:

      - quickly giving Basra back to Iraq administration and getting the hell out? There is a job to be done in Afghanistan, after all.

      - dropping ID cards

      - putting clear blue water between Blairs’ spin and the new regieme

      - taking on the gutter press,

      - pursuing a proportional system of election for Westminster.

      There must be dozens of other ideas.

    8. contrarymary — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:13 pm  

      what was the event?
      the bloodiest day of violence in Iraq..
      I’m with Jagdeep. I do feel sorry for Brown though. He seems like an old school Labour fella - probably because he’s scottish and it reminds of John Smith. Why did Smith have to die?? we wouldn’t be in this mess if he hadn’t popped his clogs.
      And Brown’s been truly shafted by that snake Blair who’s reneged on his word and clung to power like a toddler and a comfort blanket.

    9. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:22 pm  

      Why did Smith have to die?? we wouldn’t be in this mess if he hadn’t popped his clogs.
      And Brown’s been truly shafted by that snake Blair who’s reneged on his word and clung to power like a toddler and a comfort blanket.

      Well, Brown deserved it. Why was he so gutless to accept Blair’s terms in the first place? What kind of leader does that? Brown should have juked it out with Blair for the leadership fair and square, put it to the party electorate. He didnt have the balls to take him head on. There was a good chance that he might have won by appealing as the true heir to John Smith. He brought it on himself. Instead Blair dazzled them all. We’d be looking at Blair to take over now instead after ten years of Gordon Brown. And quite possibly without the moral wreck that is our involvment in Iraq.

    10. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:27 pm  

      Jagdeep,

      ‘moral wreck’ is probably Blair’s epitaph. Superb use of words, you should trademark it. I think we’re going to see it a lot in the next few months.

    11. Sunny — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:30 pm  

      I think that event as Israel’s invasion of Lebanon.

      Lol, you want to see a bad chart? Bush’s ratings are worse… but you know who has the worst in the world? Ehud Olmert, Israel. Heh.

    12. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:33 pm  

      I’m heading down the patent office now douglas.

      The thing is, Blair really did get caught up in the interventionist hero narrative. It is a moral wreck because he thought it might be like NATO action in Serbia or the firefighting in Sierra Leone. A man of principle whose principles were wrong, who didnt have to put our name to the catastrophe that America wanted to enact in Iraq, but in the haze of 9/11 he lost his judgment and lost his country.

      I’m sure there is a Shakespearean character in one of the history plays that corresponds to Blair here — a man who lives out the adage that is a cliche but here has a truth, that the road to Hell can be paved with good intentions.

    13. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:34 pm  

      correction:

      A man of principle whose principles were wrong IN THIS SITUATION and was blind to it.

    14. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:37 pm  

      Sunny,

      You are surely right. I suspect the Blair silence over that caused his disrespectful subjects to see him for what he is. On my idea of Brown making a difference, perhaps a Merkel, Sakozky, Brown nexus might. An alternative to the Bush, Blair, Olmerts of this world.

    15. Kismet Hardy — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:38 pm  

      How did Mori do this pleasantly sight spazzing graphic? Hutton enquiry and cash for honours row marked as lower points for Blair than the invasion of Iraq?

      My arse

    16. contrarymary — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:41 pm  

      fair point Jadgeep.

      But let’s not forget that Smith’s passing was very, very unexpected: it plunged Labour’s two brightest hopes - even though it should have been Cook in my view - into the media spotlight and public eye before they were ready.

      Do you really think Brown should have contested the leadership then? There was an electorate desperate for change (like now) and millions of Labour members resting their hopes on Blair/Brown.

      My understanding of it was that Brown stood aside (Blair had a wife and family then, Brown didn’t) to avoid splitting the labour party straight down the middle and ruining its chances of power for the first time since 1979?? If they didn’t make it into office in 1997, the Labour party might as well have sunk without trace.
      And if you then factor in that Brown, allegedly, had a gentleman’s agreement with Blair that the grinning wonder would step aside, I think most people would have done the same as Brown. We have the benefit of hindsight, in 1997 Brown didn’t.

    17. Kismet Hardy — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:41 pm  

      And what the fuck does satisfaction rating mean? Is this based on how smug he looked in his pictures in the papers the next day?!

    18. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:48 pm  

      All good points contrarymary. But I think the hatred for the Tories was so primed and ripe in 1997 that it would have been near impossible to lose that election. Was the party really about to drop the ball at that stage simply with a contest between Blair and Brown? I have my doubts. Blair or Brown would both have had to accept the decision of the party and go forth from there.

      Brown was a sap, and that leads me to think that he didnt have the vision or spine to be a true leader at that point. A fatal error. By the way, that was a piece of emblematic backroom Blair scheming that you can take forward — what was the difference between that and Blairs backroom scheming to take us to war? Broken promises, smiles, assurances, half truths, cajoling, blackmail, uranium from Niger, the works.

      And your mention of Robin Cook makes me even more sad. That man became the righteous conscience of the Labour Party in its dark hour when Blair was preparing for war. What a tragedy that he’s not around today.

    19. Kismet Hardy — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:54 pm  

      And why isn’t 7/7 on the graphic? This graphic is bothering me more than the departure of old whatsisname. it’s a scandal. I demand a fresh graphic exposing THESE LIES

    20. contrarymary — on 10th May, 2007 at 3:55 pm  

      18 - you’re right Jagdeep, particularly on Blair’s backroom scheming.
      Smith & cook seem like a halcyon age of politicians. But Cook was deemed ‘too ugly’ (and perhaps too clever for the white van man) to ever be leader.
      I mean really can we complain when the electorate - apparently or according to focus groups - won’t vote for a candidate on the basis that they’re not attractive enough??

    21. Leon — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:00 pm  

      And why isn’t 7/7 on the graphic?

      It is, it’s called London Bombs.

    22. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:03 pm  

      Jagdeep,

      Cheers.

      What is annoying about Iraq is that, in certain circumstances, there is a very good case for intervention. It is just that this was not the case in point.

      We should not see nation states as having the right to abuse folk simply because there is no cross border conflict.

      The idea of ‘responsibility to protect’ R2P, has been seriously undermined by Iraq. R2P is a valid objective for liberal democracies, or at least their voters.

      The Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia was a humanitarian lesson in the best of that idea, preceeding by decades the formalisation of it.

    23. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:06 pm  

      That’s true contrarymary, Cook was taken too soon. It was a massive loss to the Labour Party to lose a man of his intellect and principle. I don’t see anyone else replacing him. Another reason why Milliband will be the next leader after Brown, and probably PM one day, is that he’s electable and attractive in a way that a young Robin Cook or whoever simply isnt. All part of the package.

    24. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:10 pm  

      Like I said douglas, the wrong principle for the circumstances.

      Just one other thing that has bugged me all this time about standing beside America, which Blair even mentioned in his speech today as being his impulse in this decision. I think that is probably close to the natural instinct of most British people. But not always, in every circumstance. America wanted our troops for Vietnam, but Harold Wilson said no. Did that make us any less an ally of America? Did it make us any less committed to fronting down the USSR? In light of that, Blair’s error becomes even more massive and tragic.

    25. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:14 pm  

      Kismet Hardy,

      I think many still believed in Blair back then, y’know, when we invaded Iraq. It is the Chinese water torture, of ongoing drips on his nut, that gradually gets you to the position that you don’t believe a word he says. We are gullible, but not that gullible.

    26. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:25 pm  

      Jagdeep,

      Agreed, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater?

      I agree completely with you that committing troops in what was a war, where the causes of war were obscure - to say the least, was foolish in the extreme.

    27. Kismet Hardy — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:28 pm  

      And for crying out loud, what about Tony during the Shilpagate Scandal?

      (sorry Leon)

    28. sonia — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:28 pm  

      Heh heh. Ulster i suppose is what he thinks will give him a bit of ‘glory’ for his way out..

    29. Jagdeep — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:31 pm  

      What is the baby and what is the bathwater douglas? The principle of humanitarian intervention has been shit stained by Bush and Blair, the task is to scrape away this moral wreck if that’s what we care for. It’s their fault.

    30. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:35 pm  

      Sonia,

      True. And if it works out it will be an enduring legacy.

    31. douglas clark — on 10th May, 2007 at 4:42 pm  

      Jagdeep,

      The idea of R2P is the baby, the bathwater is the shit that Blair and Bush have stuck to it. I agree with you, at least on this. So far, anayway.

    32. Kismet Hardy — on 10th May, 2007 at 5:07 pm  

      I’ve given up smoking. That’s all I can think of. So here’s a boring story about smoking

      Blair: Tobacco Campaigners Bids A Fond Farewell
      Action on Smoking and Health marked Prime Minister Tony Blair’s departure with a salute to his contribution to public health today. In recent days Blair himself has acknowledged that he had to be persuaded to support the policy of smokefree public places in England’s indoor work places which comes into effect on July 1. However campaigners noted that reducing the harm from smoking was one of the earliest priorities of the New Labour Government.

      The 1998 White Paper Smoking Kills represented a milestone in tobacco policy. The policy blue print shaped government priorities the first half of the Blair premiership but was eventually overtaken by the momentum it created.

      Deborah Arnott, Director of the health campaigning charity ASH, said:

      “The smoking debate has shown two sides of Tony Blair. Smoking Kills showed us New Labour new to power and full of bright ideas and ambitions. The debate on smokefree public places showed the seasoned politician who listened to public opinion and was - finally - open to persuasion. Tactics were deployed and targets broadly met but we continue to find ourselves in a country where one adult in 5 is a smoker who wants to quit and where smoking remains a most potent factors in health inequalities. The Conservative Party are already putting together a radical policy for tackling health inequalities. That is Gordon Brown’s home ground. It will be interesting to see how the new Brown premiership responds.”

    33. Kismet Hardy — on 10th May, 2007 at 5:07 pm  

      cunt

    34. Chairwoman — on 10th May, 2007 at 5:58 pm  

      FP! FP! FP!

      Doesn’t anybody here ever think about anything else?

      Yes, we all know that it was a monumentally bad move to go to war in Iraq, terrible things are happening out there, and it shouldn’t have occurred.

      But for the boring old man in the street here in the UK, it doesn’t have the same effect as the appalling state of the NHS; the sad state of our education system; the increase in gun and knife crime; lack of social housing; the inflation that statistics are fiddled to make appear isn’t happening; the increase in fear of terrorism….need I go on?

      And, yes, people are probably more concerned about corruption in the administration than they are about something that happens overseas unless they, or someone close to them, is actively involved.

      So am I glad to say goodbye to Prime Minister Blair? Yes indeed. I always suspected that he was actually what he appeared to be, not what we’d hoped he’d be, and I regrettably I was proved right.

      But look what’s waiting in the wings. It’s the unholy trinity of Brown, Cameron and Campbell. The three blandests Scots who never wore the kilt (actually I think Sir Miing has done). Blair will resign and Brown will dourly and seamlessly take over, followed perhaps by one of the other two stooges, and in a couple of weeks, nobody will notice that a change has taken place.

    35. Zak — on 10th May, 2007 at 7:50 pm  

      The big question is for Brown; when will the Blairites strike for their pound of flesh?

    36. Rumbold — on 10th May, 2007 at 8:01 pm  

      Gordon Brown is legally able to take over from Blair but he has no mandate from the voters. A couple years of Brown could be a blessing in disguise for the Conservatives though, since it will expose his true nature as he will no longer be able to slink off every time there is a crisis. He will be forced to make decisions that might turn out to be unpopular, and will not have Tony Blair to hide behind.

    37. The Common Humanist — on 10th May, 2007 at 10:03 pm  

      “the appalling state of the NHS”

      Are you on crack?

      I have just had a proceedure in two months that in 1994 took 18months………

      The NHS problems are due to growth in budgets, changes in salaries and a glut in trained staff.

      Makes somewhat of a change from the situation I faced in 1994………

    38. Chairwoman — on 10th May, 2007 at 10:21 pm  

      Common Humanist - I have a fairly common condition that is only treated by one in-patient unit in England. I have had this condition for four (4) years and have no idea when I’ll get admitted. Meanwhile what useful, active life I might have had is dripping away.

      No I’m not on crack. I’d probably be better treated if I were.

      And don’t be so damned rude to me.

    39. Katy — on 10th May, 2007 at 10:26 pm  

      The Chairwoman has been housebound and chairbound for four years because of the failings of the NHS. Come over here, see how she lives and then tell us how great the NHS is, you sanctimonious tosser.

    40. justforfun — on 10th May, 2007 at 11:43 pm  

      Chairwoman - are you able to fly?

      If so - have you thought of going to India for treatment.

      If you can fly - I’ll email you on your blog and get you names of relatives who are consultants at the JJ Hospital in Bombay for further info.

      My father had a triple by pass a couple of years back and my mother has basically been re-built. They’ll be with me for another 20 years minimum :-)

      Justforfun

    41. Sunny — on 11th May, 2007 at 12:33 am  

      The big question is for Brown; when will the Blairites strike for their pound of flesh?

      An interesting question, but I don’t think they will. Most of the Blairites will have either been rewarded by Brown, or will have been pushed to obscurity soon enoough (Clarke, Reid). I doubt they’ll be back… unless Brown loses them the next general election. :)

    42. W Dean — on 11th May, 2007 at 12:52 am  

      Blair who?

    43. Vasey — on 11th May, 2007 at 1:26 am  

      Ding dong the witch is dead. It’s about bloody time he cleared off. He could have done so much good with the overwhelming and long-lived majority he’s had, but he squandered it pretty much completely. Some might disagree, but in my book he’s an abject failure as PM.

    44. Clairwil — on 11th May, 2007 at 2:21 am  

      Roll out the barrel!

    45. inders — on 11th May, 2007 at 7:59 am  

      Chairwoman… you are on crack. Either that or you’re too young to remember the late 80s and early 90s.

    46. Leon — on 11th May, 2007 at 9:58 am  

      Can we please discuss this in something approaching a civil manner? There’s no need to make accusations of substance abuse like that.

    47. justforfun — on 11th May, 2007 at 10:02 am  

      inders - were you old enough to remember the 70’s ? - that is the question. If you are then you know why the 80’s happened etc etc….. I see no improvement when people have to go abroad to be fixed quickly and efficiently, while at the same time their fees help fund the charitable works of the hospitals in India.

      The last ten years have been a disgraceful squandering of the social capital and wealth of this nation. Its never been a better time to be a millionaire/billionaire in Britain, but for the rest its a future of tired misery. And now. IF the values of Britain ever stood for anything, they definately stand for NOTHING. Our ability to do good in this world is now zero. We might as well admit it and become like Switezerland - the playground for the corrupt robber barons of this world, and this society can their personal bodyguards. 300 hundred years of collecting the world’s capital, intellectual and material and achieving progress by fair and foul means has been squandered and pissed away - for what? To make sure a squalid Labour Party and Conservative Party and their repective media chatterati can continue to manipulate us? to maintain their bullshit lifestyles?

      I don’t blame Blair - he is afterall only there because the Labour party has been eaten out from the inside by the self serving sections of British society and they want him to remain as they rape this country and its pretty tolerant stoic majority.

      I think I’ll go back onto my medication now :-)

      Justforfun

    48. inders — on 11th May, 2007 at 10:31 am  

      Our ability to do good in the world ?

      I prefer grown-up politics with manipulation and lies and spin and media. I know those things are real. The only time Blair really failed was when he gave into concepts such as ‘doing good in the world’.

      I didn’t realise that New Labour invented the rich, nor did i realise that they made entire sections of society self serving. I’ve always thought that every section of society is self serving.

    49. Chairwoman — on 11th May, 2007 at 10:42 am  

      Justforfun - Thank you very much. I can fly, but as my condition started with a mosquito bite, and I have to avoid bitey things, I must regrettably decline your kind offer. This is not a surgical condition, and I will need to be in hospital for 6 to 8 weeks.

      Inders - Indeed I am old enough to remember the Thatcher years. Would that I wasn’t.

      Unfortunately, Mr Blair, who swept to victory carrying the hopes of the nation on his shoulders, failed dismally to produce the goods.

      The NHS is in the same parlous state that it was 20 years ago, except that the hospitals are noticeably grubbier, and your GP now has less choice over which consultant you should see. Similarly the services offered by my GP’s practice during fund-holding, counselling and acupuncture to name but two, are now either not available, or only available at a greatly reduced amount.

      All that has happened is that systems are now in place to deceive us into thinking that improvements have taken place.

      I considered that Baroness Thatcher was the worst thing that ever happened to this country. Mr Blair has done nothing to make things only get better.

    50. j0nz — on 11th May, 2007 at 12:01 pm  

      Tony Blair will go down history as one of the great British Prime Ministers, he’s a true statesman.

      He gets terrorism, he gets that it’s not all_our_fault. He understands 9/11 happened before the Iraq war.

      Gordon Brown? Now there’s a cause for concern.

    51. sid — on 11th May, 2007 at 12:04 pm  

      He gets terrorism, he gets that it’s not all_our_fault. He understands 9/11 happened before the Iraq war.

      And he’s a veritable god to the idiot-worshippers.

    52. justforfun — on 11th May, 2007 at 12:43 pm  

      Inders - Our ability to do good in the world ?

      I prefer grown-up politics with manipulation and lies and spin and media. I know those things are real.

      Ha ha that’s so funny - really it is. I wish Stalin was alive today - because you at least knew where you stood with him. I liked Maggie Thatcher because you at least knew where you stood with her. I like grown up politics with manipulation and lies and spin and media - because you know where you stand. HA Ha Ha - you really are funny . On a serious note - you should not be allowed to vote - you don’t know your arse from your elbow. you’ve just said you like being lied to so why bother to vote - give it to someone who does care.

      The only time Blair really failed was when he gave into concepts such as ‘doing good in the world’.
      No - he failed because he is surrounded by failures. New Labour is not one man, it is a class of people who have acquiesed in his actions, while the electorate have been far too lenient and forgiving. Being lenient and forgiving are admirable qualities and to hope and trust in someone are good qualities, but in hindsight, this was not an appropriate occasion.

      See the graph - we knew in our hearts by mid 2000 that New Labour was a sham, we just could not let go of the dream and admit it to ourselves. Labour Party MPs should have acted then but they liked the official limos too much.

      I didn’t realise that New Labour invented the rich, nor did i realise that they made entire sections of society self serving. I’ve always thought that every section of society is self serving. Put words in my mouth if it makes you feal better. Just don’t try and think when your own mouth is full. Prawn sandwich anyone?

      You don’t get it - the rich are New Labour ( or at least they were, but now they are moving to new Tory). That is why the traditional Tory Party is frantically trying to be like the New Labour franchise - as they see that as the way to also get some meat off the carcass that is this country. Politics is not about ideologies now , but rather about how the modern political establishment and business can fleece us. I think old fashioned ideas about service , be it old Labour and old Tories or old Liberals is long dead.

      I personnally don’t want my children growing up in veal crates as units of production. But hey - can I put some words in your mouth? If it suits you, you can stay in a stagnent world of bullshit - you have obviously have developed a taste for it - its all right by me, no skin off my nose - I’m alright - set up for life I am.

      It’s natures curse that we love our children more than we love other children.

      Sid - idiot-worshippers - better than my medication - brilliant.

      Justforfun

    53. justforfun — on 11th May, 2007 at 12:48 pm  

      jonz - agreed - Gordon Brown gives me the hebee gee bees. However he wears a hairshirt so if he forces all the others to as well then perhaps I’ll be molified. Its not as if there is anywhere to run to - a British Passport is on most countries “banned2 list by now.

      Justforfun

    54. justforfun — on 11th May, 2007 at 12:54 pm  

      Chairwoman - I’ve calmed down now - Hope you get treated soon - A lone voice in the NHS just gets ignored - you have to have relatives continually bashing away , or your file loses bouyancy and sinks to the bottom. Send Katie round to table thump a few desks. It does work.

      Justforfun

    55. Inders — on 11th May, 2007 at 1:14 pm  

      Just for fun. Politics is the art of the possible.

      You keep dreaming of the impossible and see how much ‘good’ you get done.

    56. justforfun — on 11th May, 2007 at 2:07 pm  

      inders - “Politics is the art of the possible.”

      I would agree with you there.

      But so is exploitation. It is “the art of the possible” as well.

      Dreaming the impossible does not of course make it possible. Whoever said that? However a dream (whether possible or impossible) is an unimplemented plan; and only then until it is implemented. Taking things further - impossible dreams are only impossible in hindsight. I could go on…

      The Blair years were not the action of one man but the action of many and the inaction of many.

      Education, Education, Education was Blairs big idea - pity he never followed it up , becasue if he had, the people of this country would be able to think for themselves and not have to relie on rehashed opinion formers to make their minds up for them.

      Inders - sorry I was rude earlier. Its just this whole Blair resigning and the way it is being reported has got me riled up - and Marialla Fostrup on “This week” last night nearly got me smashing up my brand new wide screen TV!!!

      Justforfun

    57. Ramiie — on 11th May, 2007 at 6:32 pm  

      What Britain needs is an Iron Chancellor for Premier and I am confident that the dour scot will put things right.This country has gone to the dogs. Political correctness, hypocrisy, rampant americanisation of the culture, entrenched londonistanisation of our inner cities, the rise and rise of homotolerance through every crevice of the body politic,our schools a wasteland cum training ground for urban terrorists, muggers and jail fodder, degrees that are worth nothing, cynicism and nihilism masquerading as irony in the heart of the culture, irrelevance of literature, 100 channels but nothing to watch, childhood obesity, hospitals that spread disease, a CCTV for everyone everywhere, social interiority (yes), the fascist watch-your neighbour mindset that everyone has grown to accept, if not love….thats the true legacy of New Labour. And good riddance to Tony Bliar. Lets hope we get a stalinist democracy. But I can only dream…..

    58. Clairwil — on 11th May, 2007 at 10:27 pm  

      Katy&Chairwoman
      You’re spot on about the NHS my sister in law has just been charged £150 for a scan, which used to be a free routine check up. Some improvement!

    59. inders — on 11th May, 2007 at 10:27 pm  

      ^^ I’m not sure what people expect a Prime Minister to be able to do. Its a position of considerable power over government and law and policy. Not the 2nd coming.

    60. Refresh — on 12th May, 2007 at 1:00 am  

      Inders

      “^^ I’m not sure what people expect a Prime Minister to be able to do.”

      To be honest, we did not expect this one to leave the country and its citizens sapped.

      By all means do the possible. But in his case I dream some of the things he has done had remained impossible.

    61. Twining or Black in Blue — on 12th May, 2007 at 1:15 pm  

      I was asked on a previous thread what planet I was one and whether I needed medication getting there. The fool that asked, I forget his name, begins with N, retorts to abuses. I know I am not bigoted and that’s for the idiot that asked ma about planets. Now, KISMET DID YOU SWEAR?

      And, Blair, well he is a Liberal spin politician like any other. Has he achieved anything? I don’t know! Ask his aids. Politics is a space of time and in this time frame these things happened. Only history will tell whether the war with Iraq was the right thing to do.

      We have had the Iraq war and Saddam was a tyrant. We have had terrorism, and some would say there is no doubt that our foreign policy is a cause of UK Home Grown terrorism. We still have no answers as to why these terrorists do not want to be British.

    62. Twining or Black in Blue — on 12th May, 2007 at 1:16 pm  

      I’m British, Indian, er English, Asian.

    63. http://modernityblog.blogspot.com/ — on 12th May, 2007 at 7:39 pm  

      concerning the NHS I think it’s a bit hard to make sweeping generalisations about the whole service, as many of us only see a small part, and then comparing it to the NHS under the Thatcher’s misrule could be difficult

      with the NHS were all left with our own subjective experiences but I would think it is considerably better than under the likes of Virginia Bottomley, the Tory’s Health Secretary (who I remember in a TV interview said that London had too many hospital beds, when clearly it didn’t have enough)

      from my own experience, I think it is a bit mixed, St Thomas’s hospital still has grime in the corners on the floor and much of the money seems to have been spent on new Dell PCs (many of which were stolen soon after installation, it didn’t occur to them to put in some decent security locks at the same time), the inflexible computerised booking system is often supplemented by a A3 diary wielded by the receptionist, an example of poor design and million wasted.

      and even if you get to be seen on time and the service is okay, you are then left with the problem of MRSA

      even if the NHS were to become a health conveyor belt, treating thousands and thousands of people a week, if they stand a fair chance of catching MRSA or other infections whilst in hospital

      my experience suggests that Blair’s NHS has been marred by poor central management, incompetent local management, internal markets, PFI initiatives and quasi-privatisation, driven by statistics and money wasted on capital expenditure with little tangible benefit

      it is a pretty silly situation to be in, given the billions and billions that had been spent (much of it seemingly wasted) and still they can not clean hospitals sufficiently, or stamp out MRSA,

      perhaps they should learn from the Scandinavian countries?

    64. Muhamad — on 23rd May, 2007 at 6:29 pm  

      When Aristotle was talking about the political ANIMAL, I think he might have been talking about the politicians. If you look really closely you’ll see that Blair has something of the Indian macaque about him.

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