Taking on the BNP (pt 2)


by Sunny
27th April, 2007 at 6:03 pm    

One of the problems I have with media interviews of BNP people is that, because of the instantaneous nature of the medium, they can lie and get away with it. In a recent interview with the BBC for example one of their goons Simon Smith made this claim:

Immigration and crime are the same thing. In West Bromwich and Smethwick we have the highest crime rates. Where we’ve got a more indigenous population and in Wednesbury we have lower crime figures. Multiculturalism doesn’t work.

Except that this doesn’t add up at all, as Unity at Ministry of Truth shows. In fact he takes that apart in his typically comprehensive way. Most people may know the BNP are lying bastards but it isn’t so easy to have the facts on hand to challenge such lies. Inevitably such lies will be believed by racists who are less interested in facts and more in polemics. But how should the media respond?


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  1. raz — on 27th April, 2007 at 6:33 pm  
  2. Bert Preast — on 27th April, 2007 at 7:43 pm  

    Er, this story fails to mention the political party that doesn’t lie?

  3. rob — on 27th April, 2007 at 8:02 pm  

    Forget the BNP lets take on the Labour party. The BNP have done nothing in comparison to what Bliar and co have done in 10 years. It staggers me that the country is in such a mess yet lots of people’s sole aim in these current elections is ‘don’t vote for the BNP’.
    So to prevent me and others voting for the BNP can all these so called ‘anti fascist’s’ who want to tell us all who not to vote for please let me who to vote for and why.

  4. lithcol — on 27th April, 2007 at 9:33 pm  

    Come on Sunny you are not naïve and you certainly know that we are not naïve. Politicians being economical with the truth, gilding the lily, presenting the facts in the best light, etc. What is new?

  5. Anon+1 — on 27th April, 2007 at 9:34 pm  

    Immigration heavy areas = hardest hit by job competition = more people out of work = crime

    Indigenous population = safe jobs = less crime.

    Another thing is that most of the BNP running this election are very new and pushing out the current level of potential councilers must be very demanding on the BNP with such fast growth to cater for. Maybe hes speaking from personal experiences and not that of the entire UK.
    Also perhaps the non-indigenous population hes refering to are the blacks, which do much more crime that whites in such areas. I live in one, I can testify to that as truth. As some examples of the MANY I can give…
    College the other day I was approached by one of the few black people studying there, trying to sell me some stolen digital camera memory cards. Theres also a few who regularly shoplift in the local town, then come to my area selling their produce on the cheap.
    Recently 2 of them have been shot here and one who lives opposite me I witnessed breaking into a punto when the football was on and there was alot of cars around. Not to mention the neighbour of my Uncle who has had his window smashed with a pellet gun 3 times now by the mixed race kid living on our estate.

    Also 1945′s crime figures vs todays?
    Low immigration vs high?

    Anyone?

  6. lithcol — on 27th April, 2007 at 9:40 pm  

    Anon+1,
    I know that there is an election coming up but you must be aware that PP is not a hustings site for the BNP or any political party.

  7. Sunny — on 27th April, 2007 at 9:47 pm  

    Politicians being economical with the truth, gilding the lily, presenting the facts in the best light, etc. What is new?

    Lying to spread racial hatred? I think BNP is broadly unique in that.

  8. Naxal 1849 — on 27th April, 2007 at 10:00 pm  

    ‘Lying to spread racial hatred? I think BNP is broadly unique in that.’

    I would say that Jack Straw came pretty close.

    The whole ‘veiled women are a barrier to integration’ thing was simply whipped up in order to stir up religious hatred (against Islam) – he was riding the crest of a wave, as they say, to divert attention away from Iraq.

    Also, don’t forget Peter Griffiths’ infamous campaign slogan:

    ‘If you want a nigger for a neighbour vote Labour’.

    The BNP aren’t the only ones.

  9. Piglug — on 27th April, 2007 at 10:05 pm  

    Forget the Bnp lets take on the Labour party
    Lets face it the Bnp provide Labour with a convenient decoy.one which serves a purpose and takes the emphasis off their own inefficacy.

  10. lithcol — on 27th April, 2007 at 10:09 pm  

    Where is refresh when you need him? ‘Broadly unique’. They are unique in being white supremacists , restricting membership to whites, excluding those who may Jews and Muslims.

    Differentiates them from other polical parties certainly, but in all other respects they use the same methods and one shouldn’t be surprised.

  11. lithcol — on 27th April, 2007 at 10:42 pm  

    Naxal 1849,

    Your observations on Jack Straw are uncalled for. He is a million miles from the racist sentiments of the BNP. If you can’t make sensible observation why don’t you keep your mouth shut.

    The veil hasn’t been banned here. It has just been deemed as inappropriate in certain situations. Quite sensibly. I note that many Muslim majority countries are totally against it. If you have a problem perhaps you should direct your attention to them.

    Looks as though the Iranian Ministry of whatever are doing a good job re: headgear for women. They are also cracking down on rap and heavy rock. The young carry on regardless, two fingers to the mad mullahs. The young, don’t you just love their insouciance. Thank goodness for them, they are the future.

    Long live freedom of expression.

    Celebrate the fact that you live in a country that on the whole is tolerant of eccentricity and diversity. As Queen Victoria is alleged to have said, ‘If it doesn’t frighten the horses….’.

    The racist BNP may well achieves gains in the local elections, if they do this will be because local politicians are not addressing the concern of their constituents, or perhaps more likely are not sufficiently adroit in countering the lies of the BNP.

    PS Islam is a system of beliefs, it is not a racial categorization. Criticism of a belief or its practices does not make you a racist.

  12. lithcol — on 27th April, 2007 at 10:43 pm  

    Naxal 1849,

    Your observations on Jack Straw are uncalled for. He is a million miles from the racist sentiments of the BNP. If you can’t make sensible observation why don’t you keep your mouth shut.

    The veil hasn’t been banned here. It has just been deemed as inappropriate in certain situations. Quite sensibly. I note that many Muslim majority countries are totally against it. If you have a problem perhaps you should direct your attention to them.

    Looks as though the Iranian Ministry of whatever are doing a good job re: headgear for women. They are also cracking down on rap and heavy rock. The young carry on regardless, two fingers to the mad mullahs. The young, don’t you just love their insouciance. Thank goodness for them, they are the future.

    Long live freedom of expression.

    Celebrate the fact that you live in a country that on the whole is tolerant of eccentricity and diversity. As Queen Victoria is alleged to have said, ‘If it doesn’t frighten the horses….’.

    The racist BNP may well achieves gains in the local elections, if they do this will be because local politicians are not addressing the concerns of their constituents, or perhaps more likely are not sufficiently adroit in countering the lies of the BNP.

    PS Islam is a system of beliefs, it is not a racial categorization. Criticism of a belief or its practices does not make you a racist.

  13. inders — on 27th April, 2007 at 11:07 pm  

    I live in West Bromwich and I work in Smethwick. I work for a public sector firm which helps victims of crime throughout Sandwell ( the 6 black country towns of West Brom, Smethwick, Oldbury, Wednesbury, Tipton and Rowley Regis).

    In my experience certain neighbourhoods in Tipton have the worst figures for Crime. Tipton is a very divided place racialy, with neighbourhoods that are majority white british and neighbourhoods that are majority asian specificaly asian-pakistani. The ethnicity seems to make no difference to the crime rates there as crime is just as bad in both types of area.

    Another difference which Mr Smith does not seem to recognise is that Smethwick and West Bromwich are on the border with the Birmingham City Council. One would expect areas that are more inner city in character to have more crime then areas like Tipton (which borders the town of Dudley) and Wednesbury (which borders the town of Walsall). I would say that Wednesbury and Tipton are actualy over-represented in crime figures for Sandwell, and I would point to the high levels of unemployment throughout Sandwell as to why these higher crime levels exist.

  14. El Cid — on 27th April, 2007 at 11:23 pm  

    As a teenager studying the Weimer Republic I was in no doubts, sometimes democracy needs to be subsumed in order to protect it. If only the Nazis had been curtailed sooner. The hindsight of A-level history huh?
    But fast-forward to 2007, and I don’t get the same sensation of a fascist threat. I don’t see the BNP as anything more than a minority party becoming a slightly bigger minority. It just ain’t gonna happen. But I also don’t see the value of simply screaming racist every time someone tries to explain why the BNP might gain votes. We live in world of multiple fascisms. If the BNP is gaining more of a profile, it’s in that context. The focus should be on what unites us — the fact we live together, and like it or not, share a collective identity. People might feel uncomfortable with the labels (e.g. Britishness). But it’s not bollox. It’s the only way to go.
    Maybe this isn’t 100 percent coherent — it took me a long time to spell uncomfortable right — but then I’ve had a few rum and cokes.

  15. El Cid — on 27th April, 2007 at 11:55 pm  

    I’ve been pickling for more than a year, and I must say I’m getting disillusioned by the whole thing.
    For an Asian, minority blog, where are the non-white voices of reason?
    Apart from Sunny who sticks his neck out, Kulvinder the anarchist, is that it, and Sonia the epitome of reasonableness, big up nah?
    Jay Singh, Funkg, Colonel Mustapha, where are you?
    Sid, the nearest in moodiness to me, what’s happening, have you run out of ideas or have your retreated into some Bangra bunkrer?
    Kismet – your comedic brilliance aside and your evident passion for gender issues, where do you stand?
    Leon, are you more than just sci fi and sneers?
    Ramiie — stop windmilling on the outskirts like some poor man’s Sugar Ray, come out into middle like Roberto or Marvellous Marvin and fight.
    Caramba!
    It’s all getting a bit stale.
    P.S.
    There a few BNP arsewipes on this thread, they don’t fool me. I’m willing to die in the fight against fascism. But what am i fighting FOR? Remember that.

  16. leon — on 28th April, 2007 at 1:03 am  

    Leon, are you more than just sci fi and sneers?

    Hangovers, you forgot to add hangovers…

  17. leon — on 28th April, 2007 at 1:11 am  

    But what am i fighting FOR? Remember that.

    In the end only you can answer that matey. All of us on here write but are in various ways involved in work that [hopefully] progresses our society. We do what we can with the time we have…

    For some reason your post reminds me of an excellent Pink Floyd tune:

    You can have anything you want
    You can drift, you can dream, even walk on water
    Anything you want

    You can own everything you see
    Sell your soul for complete control
    Is that really what you need

    You can lose yourself this night
    See inside there is nothing to hide
    Turn and face the light

  18. Sunny — on 28th April, 2007 at 3:50 am  

    For an Asian, minority blog, where are the non-white voices of reason?
    Apart from Sunny who sticks his neck out, Kulvinder the anarchist, is that it, and Sonia the epitome of reasonableness, big up nah?

    ElCid, you have to remember not everyone who reads this blog comments on it.

  19. douglas clark — on 28th April, 2007 at 4:42 am  

    El Cid,

    You forgot Anas.

    Contrary to some folk on here, I think the BNP has seen an opportunity to represent the white working class. I happen to think they are possibly the worst people on the planet to do it, but politics is all about triangulation for the big boys and it has left a glaring hole that the BNP have occupied.

    Unities piece that Sunny mentioned at the top and inders comment just above your rum and coke post suggest that they are either very confused or congenital liars.

    How you deal with liars and charlatans in the media is beyond me. Hopefully, we will not be reading about massive BNP support next week. The electorate is not stupid.

    On your other point, I would say that a blog like this is important mainly for the diversity of people who come here, not because it is specifically Asian. It is important that people of all backgrounds can have open forums where they can discuss things without the general nastiness that goes on elsewhere. You have Jewish voices that are willing to be pretty open here. I think that matters. I think that people should be welcomed into threads and encouraged to express their views.

    Having said all that, there does seem to be a dearth of Asian commentators that are willing to stick with it. Which is kind of strange.

  20. Halima — on 28th April, 2007 at 10:42 am  

    What time is the vote today? Hope someone is able to post the results sometime today…

  21. Chairwoman — on 28th April, 2007 at 11:55 am  

    El Cid @ 15 – Yes, I too have been wondering where everyone’s gone. Where’s Jagdeep and bananabrain? I know that Jai can’t post from work anymore, but we don’t see him at the weekends either. Arif only pops in from time to time, and, sorry Sunny, but I miss Amir. I know he went too far last time, but he does add a certain…something.

    But, yes, I think we’re getting a little BNP centric here. We all know they’re dreadful, but apart from Anon + 1, I don’t think any regulars here are about to vote for them, so perhaps what we should be discussing, is what party is actually going to do the things we want done, and that doesn’t just mean FP.

    We have big problems here that affect everybody, regardless of ethnic background or political affiliation. We have housing, employment, education, pensions, crime, and health problems. Not necessarily in that order. As I mentioned previously, I have discovered that there is only one consultant in this developed world country that we live in that treats my unremarkable condition. This can’t be an isolated example. We need a government that is going to put things right, not just think that throwing cash in the air and hoping it will come down in the right place is the answer.

    Forget the BNP it’s a troll and we’re continuing to feed it.

  22. Refresh — on 28th April, 2007 at 2:16 pm  

    Chairwoman – Ageed.

    I miss Amir. He was fun.

    There is another element to consider – and that is PP’s shelf-life.

    A good measure is the number of posts a ‘PP-centric’ topic attracts. A similar picture can be seen on CiF.

    Perhaps what is needed is a new format. I’ve got some thoughts on that.

    I think I said before there is a natural life to a PP thread – 73 posts is my theory. After that we’re into rambling territory.

    On the BNP, there really wasn’t a need for BNP pt. 2.

  23. Kulvinder — on 28th April, 2007 at 2:55 pm  

    Fikkar not i’ve almost got round to planning the thought process that will eventually lead me to avoid procrastinating and write an article on thought crimes and child pornography.

    I’ll sort of promise to do it by monday.

  24. Kismet Hardy — on 28th April, 2007 at 3:02 pm  

    “Also 1945’s crime figures vs todays?”

    What an idiotic comparison. All the would-be hoodies and yobs of that time had just all been wiped out in the war

  25. lithcol — on 28th April, 2007 at 7:26 pm  

    No,some of the young born during the war became Teddy boys and girls. Flick knives, chains and vicious gang fights on a Saturday night.

    Nothing changes, just the style of dress.

  26. Halima — on 29th April, 2007 at 2:17 am  

    Ok so the Labour MP candidate in Bethnal Green and Bow is Rushnara Ali – so will be interesting to see how the battle is fought in 2 years time at the polls.

    Feeling rather pleased for the ladies in East London – new generation manifesto for Bethnal Green and Bow… Hurray.

  27. bananabrain — on 30th April, 2007 at 1:55 pm  

    sorry i haven’t been around – i’m very busy at work and over at comparative-religion.com where i have been having a large handbag fight with a couple of theosophists who think that posting an enormous quote is the same thing as making an argument.

    will post soon….

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  28. Chris Paul — on 1st May, 2007 at 7:05 pm  

    Simon Smith, or SS for short, did not only say this. He also offered that the SS I mean the BNP would abandon the “white working class scum” when they got elected. SS is a fascist maniac, seeing lumpen prole cannon fodder as the way to power for his white power elite. he is the sort that the BNP thought they had suppressed or gagged.

    Serious parties need to address the real and reasonable concerns of potential BNP voters. Serious parties on this DO NOT currently include the Lib Dems who continue to flirt with these fascists and use broadly similar communalist tactics in many cases.

    - Electoral pact in Blackburn (leaked from Lib Dems)
    - Boosting to Committee in Burnley (public domain)
    - Mayor of Settle, no coon jokes (public domain)
    - Signing their nominations (public domain)
    - Pro and anti-mosque messages (Oldham/Saddleworth)
    - Refusing to sign anti-BNP accord (x3, Manchester)

    But, leaving the Lib Dems track record to one side, the BNP may be mad or damaged goods but they are not stupid. Their strategy is working towards future electoral success in London Assembly and European elections by blooding new wards and constituencies each time and then perming to a different and larger set with limited overlap.

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