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  • A special investigation on the EDL by the Mail

    by Sunny
    13th December, 2010 at 9:30 am    

    The Daily Mail reports today:

    They call themselves ‘patriots’ and wear masks emblazoned with the red cross of the Knights Templar.

    But behind the ­inflammatory propaganda and war paint of the English Defence League (EDL) — the ­far-Right ‘anti-Islamic extremism’ group that is fast becoming an even more pernicious ­influence than the BNP — we find such men as Jeff Marsh.

    Like all the other EDL ‘patriots’, Marsh — or ‘Marshy’ as he prefers to be known — insists he is not racist. And he is absolutely true to his word in one respect: he was happy to stab or stamp on anyone, black or white, ­during his career as a football hooligan. ‘Marshy’ wasn’t bothered about colour; violence was the thing. To him, ‘it was better than sex’.

    The whole article is worth reading from here

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    24 Comments below   |  

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    1. sunny hundal

      Blogged: : A special investigation on the EDL by the Mail

    2. Nemesis Republic

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : A special investigation on the EDL by the Mail #ukuncut

    3. Nazis Not Welcome

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : A special investigation on the EDL by the Mail

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    5. Stew Wilson

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    7. Raji Chaggar

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : A special investigation on the EDL by the Mail

    8. Nemesis Republic

      Luton @wearethebritish 250 #EDL rampaged broke windows overturned cars attacked people 35 arrested #ukuncut

    9. Nemesis Republic

      Consequences of people like @wearethebritish trying to pretend #EDL thugs 'nice people' Daily Mail 'ukuncut

    10. Kevin Arscott

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : A special investigation on the EDL by the Mail

    11. Allan Siegel

      Pickled Politics » A special investigation on the EDL by the Mail

    12. Neil A

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    1. Leon — on 13th December, 2010 at 1:50 pm  

      EDL sounds like a paramilitary group…perhaps we should refer to the BNP as the political wing of the EDL?

    2. harith — on 13th December, 2010 at 2:12 pm  

      Has the PC-brigade now lifted the quarantine for quoting from the Daily Mail?


    3. Sunny — on 13th December, 2010 at 2:37 pm  

      I didn’t realise we had a ban :D :D :D

    4. harith — on 13th December, 2010 at 2:46 pm  

      It must be fashionable to quote from it again since, according to it, you “are not British”!


    5. damon — on 13th December, 2010 at 4:35 pm  

      The least interesting thing about the EDL in my opinion is the people who are running and organising it. As a phenomenon or movement it is quite interesting though.

      It’s a child of the internet and in some ways is not so different to the climate change flash mobs and the like. Or the FE students who will have been organising their protests today about the cut in the EMA grant.
      Apart from the EDL being a bunch of thugs I mean.
      Maybe it’s got something in common with those facebook groups and Youtube warriors from all the little post-code gangs who put their videos online and insult and goad each other online and sometimes meet up for fights. Just like the football hooligan ”firms” do infact.

      I think the EDL is a backlash against something, but as they are so inarticulate and crude mostly, it’s difficult to know what exactly. They are bullies obviously, but some of them I reckon also resent being hemmed in (so to speak) by hostile demographic forces that are outside of their control. (Hostile to thuggish racist white blokes I mean).
      For example, an EDL march in London would be taking place in a city pretty much mostly opposed to them, and they would have to be careful where they went before and after such a march. Twenty blokes coming out of Brixton tube station in EDL T shirts might find that they quickly attracted unwanted attention from local people and be forced to cover up their St George’s flags and keep their mouths shut.
      The same right across huge parts of the capital I’d say. I know from talking to guys that I knew from twenty years ago, that they do feel that they can’t walk around as they’d like in such places. If they showed ”white bloke cockiness” in many areas, they will come in to conflict with people who don’t like to see such behavior in their neighbourhood.
      That can drive people of a certain mindset towards the EDL and the BNP I think.

      And Luton where it all started, is still like this I think. (From 2005).

      ‘We still feel cheated and segregated’

      I heard the author of the book ”Greetings from Bury Park” on the radio this morning, and he said segregation in Luton is still a problem.

      That’s a bigger problem than the EDL … isn’t it?
      Maybe it’s not, and it’s just like any other of the paterns of immigration settlement in the USA for example. People forming communities.

    6. Arif — on 13th December, 2010 at 8:49 pm  

      Damon, your post got me reflecting on how majorities react to minorities who are fighting back against their marginalisation and devaluation by society as they see it.

      In the USA in the sixties when black people were campaigning against (albeit more overt and aggressive) segregation, there was the split between those who wanted to forge a broad movement inclusive of white people and others who doubted that white people, however well meaning, could actually have their interests at heart.

      The Indian independence movement had similar splits (as well as many other splits) and the Anti Apartheid Movement, and the Palestinian and Tibetan freedom movements etc etc.

      There are also similar splits (which often cut in the same way) between those who refuse to use violence even under massive provocation, and those who are quick to claim self defence and even go out looking for confrontations.

      The EDL is on the confrontational/separatist edge, but not wholly so - at least the way you present it damon.

      One other thing these comparisons suggest to me is that leadership is more essential than the leaders themselves often admit - Martin Luther King/Malcolm X, Gandhi/Bose provide clarity on their struggles. The lack of recognised leaders for the peaceful Intifadas or the violent Tibetan uprisings mean they are overshadowed in the imaginations of their opponents by by those who consistently advocating the other kinds of approach - to their disadvantage.

      So the EDL’s leadership has some importance in terms of the phenomenon and how it is both channeled and understood (and therefore how it is reacted to, and what it must in turn react back against, so leadership conditions the whole dynamic).

      Damon, as you sound like someone who feels they empathises with what feeds this phenomenon to an extent, I’d be interested to hear what you think their analysis and (just) solutions would be if there were some kind of (pacifically-minded) leadership to articulate it.

      If there is some meaningful claim for justice or security there, can we tease it out and discuss how to deal with it?

    7. An Old Friend — on 13th December, 2010 at 10:51 pm  


      Yes and those black Americans who chose integration over independence and self sufficiency dont have shit to show for it. Let this be a warning to any minority community: have your own because no one will look after you better than your own. Now blacks can live in the black community, jobless, and poor while Koreans, Chinese, Indian, Arabs and even foreign blacks feed them, clothe them, and sell them inferior crap with rude service on top of it.

      Also, America is still a very very segregated place and thats the way Americans like it.

    8. An Old Friend — on 13th December, 2010 at 10:52 pm  

      BTW those masks remind me of Silence of the Lambs. Fava beans anyone?

    9. Sunny — on 14th December, 2010 at 2:01 am  

      good questions Arif.

      Harith - yes they probably don’t think I’m British, but I’ve never said we should stop highlighting their rubbish… :D :D :D

    10. damon — on 14th December, 2010 at 2:07 am  


      Damon, as you sound like someone who feels they empathises with what feeds this phenomenon to an extent

      There’s no empathy from me, I would just rather see if it’s possible to move things further along from UAF territory. As this is Sunny’s site, and reading the Liberal Conspiracy one too - which is on a mission with all the student and anti-government, anti-police stuff right now, I’m pretty sure this is not the place where more reflective analysis will accrue.
      Just chucking in an EDL article without comment looks like paying lip service to me.

      Is Luton a model for a successful kind of multi-culturalism? They fail the cricket test in Bury Park - but that idea was always BS anyway. The children of immigrants do naturally support their family’s origins to a degree. Like I did with mine being Irish immigrants. Whether that goes a bit far at times would be an interesting discussion.

      But what will probably happen is that some idiot will just call me a bigot again and that will be all.
      Groundhog day indeed.

    11. harith — on 14th December, 2010 at 10:29 am  

      Given the number of times you have implied they are racist on this blog and on Liberal Conspiracy, we will read that message as a disclaimer now that you quote them approvingly.


    12. Dr Paul — on 15th December, 2010 at 12:48 pm  

      There’s nothing odd about the Daily Mail having a poke at the EDL. The emphasis of article is that the EDL is composed largely of football hooligans who are just out to cause mayhem. One thing middle-England detests strongly is hooliganism.

      Also, the paper is not anti-Muslim in an all-encompassing manner, no more than it is these days against non-white people as a whole. It is quite happy with the Muslims whom it feels fit within the bounds of respectable Britishness. A family of Muslims, observant but not fanatical, conservative in politics and social outlook, respectful of religious tenets that fit within the paper’s concept of Britishness, with well-behaved children who respect their hard-working parents and who dress modestly and don’t get drunk or stoned — what better sort of British citizen could one want? Much, much better than chavs on benefits or drunks or dope-smokers, or football hooligans.

      The paper recognises that the EDL’s adherents have a habit of hitting out not merely against extreme Islamicists, but against respectable Muslims and indeed any Asian person who has the misfortune of getting in the way. The EDL’s activities lead to public disorder and clashes with the left, and that’s another of the paper’s pet hates.

      Now, if there appeared in Britain a party that carefully and in a legal manner targetted extreme Islamicists, along with unruly chavs, benefit scroungers, drunks and druggies and general hooligans, and upheld strong law’n'order (no more protesting students!), traditional family values, etc, etc, then the Daily Mail would be happy. And it recognises that the EDL will never become such an organisation.

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