»   Turns out, the judge who sentenced rape victim to jail had earlier let off men for worse crimes http://bit.ly/cj9QB9 17 mins ago

»   RT @libcon: We failed in 2002, but this time it's different; there's real anger http://bit.ly/amzshr << good point 2 hrs ago

»   Defying western trends, Canada wants more immigrants, and shows how it should be done http://nyti.ms/98I0cL 4 hrs ago

»   Twitter - sort your goddamn servers out or I'm blowing this website sky high! #iamspartacus #onlyjoking #imbrownihavetosayimjoking 9 hrs ago

»   US blog Talking Points Memo celebrates its tenth birthday. They are the model I look to http://bit.ly/c7W6nj 12 hrs ago

» More updates...


  • Family

    • Earwicga
    • Liberal Conspiracy
  • Comrades

    • Andy Worthington
    • Angela Saini
    • Bartholomew’s notes
    • Bleeding Heart Show
    • Bloggerheads
    • Blood & Treasure
    • Campaign against Honour Killings
    • Cath Elliott
    • Chicken Yoghurt
    • Daily Mail Watch
    • Dave Hill
    • Dr. Mitu Khurana
    • Europhobia
    • Faith in Society
    • Feministing
    • Harry’s Place
    • IKWRO
    • Indigo Jo
    • MediaWatchWatch
    • Ministry of Truth
    • Natalie Bennett
    • New Statesman blogs
    • Operation Black Vote
    • Our Kingdom
    • Robert Sharp
    • Rupa Huq
    • Septicisle
    • Shiraz Socialist
    • Shreen Ayob
    • Shuggy’s Blog
    • Stumbling and Mumbling
    • Ta-Nehisi Coates
    • The F Word
    • Though Cowards Flinch
    • Tory Troll
    • UK Polling Report
  • In-laws

    • Aaron Heath
    • Ariane Sherine
    • Douglas Clark's saloon
    • Get There Steppin’
    • Incurable Hippie
    • Isheeta
    • Neha Viswanathan
    • Power of Choice
    • Sarah
    • Sepia Mutiny
    • Smalltown Scribbles
    • Sonia Faleiro
    • The Langar Hall
    • Turban Head
    • Ultrabrown



  • Technorati: graph / links

    Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan


    by earwicga
    9th November, 2010 at 8:20 pm    

    Edit:  GodChicks has a list of email addresses to write to, and are urging us to do this within the next 6 days which is the time period for Asia Bibi to file an appeal.

    Via the Telegraph:

    Asia Bibi, a 45-year-old mother-of-five, denies blasphemy and told investigators that she was being persecuted for her faith in a country where Christians face routine harassment and discrimination.

    Asia Bibi has been sentenced to death ‘for blasphemy’

    Christian groups and human rights campaigners condemned the verdict and called for the blasphemy laws to be repealed.

    Her supporters say she will now appeal against the sentence handed down in a local court in the town of Sheikhupura, near Lahore, Pakistan.

    The full story is here.

    A Richard Dawkins Foundation blog also adds that a fine of £700 was passed down on Asia Bibi, who has been kept in solitary confinement for a year, and adds:

    The blasphemy laws of President Zia Ul-Haq in Pakistan have been exploited to persecute non-Muslims for many years now. They are commonly used to blackmail or dispossess victims who may be condemned on nothing more than a false rumour of tearing a koran page.

    The Pakistani minorities,- Ahmadi Muslims, Christians and Hindus are being treated as pariahs in their own country. We should do anything in our power to help them to secure their equal treatment under the law.

    H/T @RedRector


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Pakistan,South Asia






    82 Comments below   |   Add your own

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. sunny hundal

      Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    2. Press Not Sorry

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    3. earwicga

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    4. Colm Ryan

      RT @earwicga RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan (for blasphemy) http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    5. Carmen D'Cruz

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    6. Randall Wharton

      RT @colm_ryan: RT @earwicga RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan (for blasphemy) http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    7. takhalus

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    8. Kala Kawa

      Repulsive. Absolutely repulsive. RT @takhalus @sunny_hundal Blogged: Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    9. Five Rupees

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    10. Anders Nygaard

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    11. DesPardes

      Christian woman sentenced to death in #Pakistan for blasphemy - report http://bit.ly/cga661


    12. zeeshan qureshi

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    13. PKonweb

      Christian woman sentenced to death in #Pakistan for blasphemy - report http://bit.ly/cga661


    14. Wendy Maddox

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    15. Marvi Sirmed

      Cant believe this was published on Iqbal Day and we remained silent! http://bit.ly/9bKP6r Christian woman sentenced to death via @kaalakawaa


    16. Jo Jowers

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    17. Elina

      RT @carmenego RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    18. Paige Goff

      Pickled Politics » Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan: The viciousness of briefi… http://bit.ly/ckVRpF http://bit.ly/NTnuK


    19. Hank Langston

      Pickled Politics » Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/cdOLoo


    20. Marcel Duda

      Pickled <b>Politics</b> » Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://goo.gl/fb/g4JRr


    21. Z'shan Mirza

      RT @sunny_hundal: Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s


    22. Sheherzad Kaleem

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Christian woman Sentenced to death in Pakistan http://bit.ly/9jHd9s




    1. damon — on 9th November, 2010 at 10:03 pm  

      This is really a case for the Islam Channel and friday prayers sermons to take up.

    2. abdullah — on 9th November, 2010 at 10:45 pm  

      damon
      “This is really a case for the Islam Channel and friday prayers sermons to take up.”

      You mean like churches,temples and synagogues take up the cases of Muslims who are opressed and suffering. Not.

    3. earwicga — on 9th November, 2010 at 11:00 pm  

      damon was being sarcastic abdullah and refering to another post this week.

      As to your point, there is a lot of fundraising from all kinds of faith groups for people in Muslim countries. For example, the last fundraiser I saw near me for Pakistan was by a group of Quakers.

      But this is really off-topic. Care to comment on the post at all?

    4. africana — on 9th November, 2010 at 11:16 pm  

      i think pakistani’s are suspicious of an individual who converts to a religion other than islam as there is a strong perception, not entirely baseless, that christian evangelical groups are offering much needed charity in return for christian conversions.

      there’s been a trend for christian conversion amongst the somewhat secular berber groups of algeria. the main concern there is that such such individuals would ally themselves with a western power like france rather than their own compatriots.

    5. BenSix — on 10th November, 2010 at 12:17 am  

      In that case the “concern” is ridiculous. Especially when it leads to incidents like this…

      The attack on the office of Christian aid agency, World Vision, in Manshera district in the Northwest Frontier province, killed six Pakistani staff members, four men and two women, according to the aid agency. Seven other employees were injured in the attack and taken to hospital. The organization has suspended all operations in the country.

      http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18671

    6. earwicga — on 10th November, 2010 at 12:29 am  

      ‘the main concern there is that such such individuals would ally themselves with a western power like france rather than their own compatriots.’

      Or that is the spin put on it and not the reason.

    7. Shamit — on 10th November, 2010 at 12:45 am  

      Good post earwicga.

    8. Mark T — on 10th November, 2010 at 1:10 am  

      The blasphemy laws of President Zia Ul-Haq in Pakistan have been exploited to persecute non-Muslims for many years now.

      Ul-Haq was an absolute disaster for Pakistan; this blasphemy law was just one among many concessions to religious loons.

      This case deserves the widest possible attention.

    9. Roger — on 10th November, 2010 at 5:25 am  

      ‘I think pakistani’s are suspicious of an individual who converts to a religion other than islam as there is a strong perception, not entirely baseless, that christian evangelical groups are offering much needed charity in return for christian conversions.’
      If this perception is not entirely baseless, no doubt you can give bases for it, africana.
      In fact, there is much more evidence that nonmuslims- or, rather, nonsunnis- have very powerful reasons to become muslim- to be precise, sunni- in Pakistan. To begin with, they are not going to be murdered for their beliefs or convicted of blasphemy.

      ‘‘the main concern there is that such such individuals would ally themselves with a western power like france rather than their own compatriots.’
      What compatriots? The very fact that there is a distinction between arabs and berbers shows that berbers are not regarded as compatriots to begin with.

    10. Sarah AB — on 10th November, 2010 at 8:01 am  

      africana - you can be a bit suspicious about evangelists (Christian or otherwise) - personally I’m not too keen on that Christmas shoebox charity as I think they may use presents as a way of proselytising. On the other hand I think people should be *free* to evangelise (or convert) - I just reserve the right to be a bit short with them if they knock on the door when I’m busy.

      Even given your reservations - doesn’t a death sentence seem a bit extreme?!

    11. douglas clark — on 10th November, 2010 at 10:35 am  

      Africana @ 4,

      You do us all a service by pointing out the dangers of assuming that the State is the Religion and vice versa. Quite Orwellian, really.

    12. Rita Banerji — on 10th November, 2010 at 12:19 pm  

      This discussion feels a bit surreal. Are there really very many complicated dimensions to a case like this? Something like when Charles Dickens went to the U.S. in 1842, and was horrified at how people advertised “run-away” slaves openly in the newspaper, and he commented on how strangely normal it was to American society. And he actually collected these advertisements. eg.’Ran away, a negro woman and two children. A few days before she went off, I burnt her with a hot iron, on the left side of her face. I tried to make the letter M.’ This discussion feels something like that.

    13. damon — on 10th November, 2010 at 1:51 pm  

      damon was being sarcastic abdullah and refering to another post this week.

      I didn’t think I was being particularly sarcastic earwicga. If cases like this don’t get publicity on the Islam Channel and at friday prayers, then where else is it going to be raised?

      Sermons in mosques can be political, I’ve heard them myself. So why not raise cases like this womans and other cases of injustice in a sermon?
      Or is it embarrassing, as this kind of thing isn’t so unusual in Pakistan?

      Like that Dispatches programme the other might about sweat shops in Leicester.
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327599/The-High-Street-fashions-slaves-British-sweatshops.html

    14. asif — on 10th November, 2010 at 2:17 pm  

      damon

      “I didn’t think I was being particularly sarcastic earwicga. If cases like this don’t get publicity on the Islam Channel and at friday prayers, then where else is it going to be raised?

      Sermons in mosques can be political, I’ve heard them myself. So why not raise cases like this womans and other cases of injustice in a sermon?
      Or is it embarrassing, as this kind of thing isn’t so unusual in Pakistan? ”

      Yeah holding British Muslims responsible for what happens in Muslim countries they have no control over. Very fair.

    15. harith — on 10th November, 2010 at 2:51 pm  

      “You mean like churches,temples and synagogues take up the cases of Muslims who are opressed and suffering. Not.”

      What a ridiculous comment. Islam Channel is not analagous to a church, a temple or a synagogue. It is a media outlet and a news channel.

      More to the point, I wonder if Cage Prisoners or the IHCR will be picking up the case of this Christian convert in the same way they have made they have made Aafia Siddique, the al-Qaeda operative, into a cause celebre.

      They won’t, of course.

    16. damon — on 10th November, 2010 at 3:21 pm  

      Yeah holding British Muslims responsible for what happens in Muslim countries they have no control over.

      No Asif, not holding anyone responsible, but surely the point of a sermon is to talk to the congregation about what is right and what’s wrong in the world and the way it’s interpreted through a religion.
      So if Iraq is something that has concerned many Muslims in the UK very much over the last several years, surely an Imam might mention the imorality of Al-Qaeda in Iraq announcing that all Christians in Iraq were now targets. Things like that.

      If the religion is being hijacked and abused by terrorists and charlitains (like in the case of this woman’s sentence) - in a global world where the views of the Ummah diaspora are important, I think it would be completely relevant.

      I remember being on a bus in Tunisia a few years ago and got talking to some friendly students. I had the Herrald Tribune newspaper with me, which had a photo and story of a bomb at a Shia mosque in Iraq on the front page, and while one of the guys said it was not good that it happened, he did say the Shia were infidels and enemies or something, which I found quite shocking.

    17. asif — on 10th November, 2010 at 3:33 pm  

      damon

      I remember being on a bus in Tunisia a few years ago and got talking to some friendly students. I had the Herrald Tribune newspaper with me, which had a photo and story of a bomb at a Shia mosque in Iraq on the front page, and while one of the guys said it was not good that it happened, he did say the Shia were infidels and enemies or something, which I found quite shocking.

      Wow shocking..that would be like say extremists Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland not considering each other true Christians…something you’d never ever hear.

      Ive never ever heard a Protestant fundamentalists say that Catholics arent Christian or the Pope is the anti-Christ. Ever.

    18. asif — on 10th November, 2010 at 3:34 pm  

      harith

      What a ridiculous comment. Islam Channel is not analagous to a church, a temple or a synagogue. It is a media outlet and a news channel.

      More to the point, I wonder if Cage Prisoners or the IHCR will be picking up the case of this Christian convert in the same way they have made they have made Aafia Siddique, the al-Qaeda operative, into a cause celebre.

      They won’t, of course.

      Its the old collective blame/responsibility which Islamophobes seem to place solely on Muslims and no other community

    19. asif — on 10th November, 2010 at 3:40 pm  

      damon

      So if Iraq is something that has concerned many Muslims in the UK very much over the last several years, surely an Imam might mention the imorality of Al-Qaeda in Iraq announcing that all Christians in Iraq were now targets. Things like that.

      Numerous Imams have condemned Al Qaida

      If the religion is being hijacked and abused by terrorists and charlitains (like in the case of this woman’s sentence) – in a global world where the views of the Ummah diaspora are important, I think it would be completely relevant.

      Given the extremely infitesmantly small number of the worlds 1.3 billion Muslims commiting such acts the religion hasnt been “hijacked” except in the opinion of people hostile to Muslims and/or the tabloid press

    20. harith — on 10th November, 2010 at 3:41 pm  

      Actually it’s not, you know.

      It’s the same old collective blame/responsibility by which Muslims use to deflect culpability of their own actions or the actions of their institutions.

    21. douglas clark — on 10th November, 2010 at 3:54 pm  

      asif,

      Well it has been kind of hijacked in Pakistan has it not? The State exacts retribution for an insult to a religion. Is that not sort of how it seems to work in this case? I take it, from what you have said, that you completely disapprove of that?

    22. John Christopher — on 10th November, 2010 at 4:52 pm  

      If the Daily Telegraph story is even 50% true, then it makes for bitter reading. I have long had my suspicions about this country and this story is just adding fuel to the fire. In Pakistan, if you want rid of a Christian living within your community,all you have to do is accuse them of blasphemy against the prophet. Job done! The Salem Witch trails all over again. Maybe it’s too much to ask from this country that they should start reading Arthur Miller because it seems they still can’t get their collective heads round the notion that lying in the name of Allah is plain wrong.

    23. Don — on 10th November, 2010 at 6:35 pm  

      Maybe it’s too much to ask from this country that they should start reading Arthur Miller

      Yes, it probably is. And besides, I doubt The Crucible would have much effect on a reader who had not already concluded that killing people because of religious differences was, um, wrong.

      If there is an accepted concensus that killing people with whom we disagree is the way to go, then this is what you end up with. Whether the disagreement is religious or political.

      Still, I’m sure they are utterly filled with conviction, and you gotta respect that.

    24. Bored in Kavanagasau — on 11th November, 2010 at 11:11 am  

      More details of the incident which lead to her arrest:

      Some of the women workers had reportedly been pressuring Bibi to renounce her Christian faith and accept Islam. During one discussion, Bibi responded by speaking of how Jesus had died on the cross for the sins of humanity and asking the Muslim women what Muhammad had done for them.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cthHdMDh92E

      The Muslim women took offence and began beating Bibi. Afterwards she was locked in a room. According to Release International, a mob reportedly formed and “violently abused” her and her children.

    25. joe90 — on 11th November, 2010 at 2:17 pm  

      pakistan has many problems a lot bigger than this.

      I doubt this is high on pak governments list of priorities especially when they have bombs going off, floods hitting 20 million people, governmental infighting to deal with!

    26. abdullah — on 11th November, 2010 at 3:17 pm  

      harith
      “It’s the same old collective blame/responsibility by which Muslims use to deflect culpability of their own actions or the actions of their institutions.”

      see.. in other words you DO believe that ALL Muslims are collectively responsible if one Muslim does something. Pure bigotry. Why arent other religious groups held to the same standards?

    27. harith — on 11th November, 2010 at 4:10 pm  

      You must have an extremely aggratvated sense of victimhood if you are taking my sentence as an understanding of “ALL Muslims” from my sentence?

      More importantly, why are you deflecting the Muslims who are to blame for the death of the Christian woman in this story?

      You must either agree with the sentence or you regard the life of the woman as inconsequential in comparison to your sense of victimhood that you perceive you rare a victim of as a Muslim living in this country.

    28. damon — on 11th November, 2010 at 4:17 pm  

      I can’t seem to find any comment on this in any Pakistan media online. Maybe it’s like joe90 says and people there aren’t much interested in the case of just one person.

      Shahzad Kamran, of the Sharing Life Ministry Pakistan, said: “The police were under pressure from this Muslim mob, including clerics, asking for Asia to be killed because she had spoken ill of the Prophet Mohammed.

      “So after the police saved her life they then registered a blasphemy case against her.” He added that she had been held in isolation for more than a year before being sentenced to death on Monday.

      But I think the country has been like this for decades, and will remain backward and poor untill it becomes more enlightened generally.

      It’s precisely the kind of thing that the Islam Channel and the Global Peace and Unity event should be debating.

    29. harith — on 11th November, 2010 at 4:17 pm  

      “pakistan has many problems a lot bigger than this”

      More precisely - this incident is symptomatic of the problems that now beset Pakistan - inclusive of the total lack of law and order, the sectarian violence, the attacks on Pakistani minorities and the breakdown in governance that can deal with any of it.

    30. harith — on 11th November, 2010 at 4:26 pm  

      “It’s precisely the kind of thing that the Islam Channel and the Global Peace and Unity event should be debating.”

      The whole idea of the Islam Channel and the Global Peace and Unity event is to decry any criticism of crimes and abuses perpetrated by Islamists as “Islamophobic”. Secondly to blame all the problems of Pakistan and the Muslim world in general on the West, USA and Israel.

    31. deemz — on 11th November, 2010 at 4:48 pm  

      The treatment of Christians and other minorities in Pakistan is truly a great shame, however it’s not entirely the fault of Islam … it’s rooted also in the legacy of the caste system. That whole incident involving the women refusing to share water with the victim due to her being “unclean”, and the common view in Pakistan that Christians are mainly lower-castes, speaks to that.

      I sometimes think it’s as if Pakistan took the worst traditions and practices from its “parent” cultures (english, hindu, muslim) and merged them to create one of the world’s most backward, intolerant, ignorant and repressive cultures in the world.

      Pakistan has no guiding light. It’s been a miscarriage ever since a dying Jinnah founded it.

      Sad.

    32. Forrester — on 11th November, 2010 at 7:46 pm  

      @ joe90

      “pakistan has many problems a lot bigger than this.”

      The same excuse could be made about any single injustice to an individual, no matter how heinous, in any country in the world.

      So why did you make it?

    33. douglas clark — on 11th November, 2010 at 10:18 pm  

      joe90,

      Nobody is suggesting that Pakistan hasn’t got other problems. But, really!

      I take it you do not approve of the death sentence for this woman? The comments in the Dawkins thread suggest that Pakistan should be refused humanitarian aid for the current crisis until this is sorted out. I do not agree with that, but this is truly unacceptable shit. It is time Pakistan took it’s commitment to being an original signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, particularily this bit:

      Article 18
      Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

      seriously, and didn’t piss in the wind about exceptionalism for Islam.

    34. joe90 — on 11th November, 2010 at 10:19 pm  

      post #32

      good luck in your campaign to rid pakistan of religious discrimination.

      Let me know how far you get when you have floods, poverty, no law or order and a corrupt government to deal with at the same time.

    35. douglas clark — on 11th November, 2010 at 10:29 pm  

      Joe90 @ 34,

      Up to, and including the death penalty? How the heck did that happen Joe?

      Do you think it’s right or are you just playing a game here?

      Pakistan is in danger of falling out with the Tea Party over this. Now that would be serious. For all of us.

    36. joe90 — on 11th November, 2010 at 10:41 pm  

      post #35

      you fail to see the point, in a country like Pakistan the ordinary person regardless if they muslim, christian, or even atheist will not see justice and do not feel safe. There are a dozen other stories of teenagers beaten to death by a mob, families slaughtered that do not even make the headlines ever wonder why?

      This is not belittling the story its putting into a context of how seriously it will be taken compared to the problems mentioned.

    37. Roger — on 11th November, 2010 at 10:48 pm  

      “pakistan has many problems a lot bigger than this.”

      Does Mrs Bibi?
      It’s pretty obvious that the people who are persecuting and prosecuting her think her failure toaccept the obvious superiority of islam is more important than trivia such as floods, bombs or corruption.

    38. douglas clark — on 11th November, 2010 at 11:03 pm  

      Joe90,

      Well, this one is ‘out there’ as they say. This has, potential, international ramifications.

      Huffington Post:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/11/asia-bibi-pakistan-blasph_n_782297.html

      The Telegraph:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/8120142/Christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-Pakistan-for-blasphemy.html

      Dawkins.net:

      http://richarddawkins.net/discussions/544675-save-asia-bibi-the-rampant-terrorization-of-blasphemy-laws-in-pakistan

      My point, should you care to listen, is that Pakistan is not really a free agent, independent of Western aid or assistance. Not that that should matter. It should do the right thing anyway, but seems to have strayed a bit from the path.

      What if John Stewart asked Barack Obama about this on their next tete a tete on prime time TV? How would a committed Christian like the President react? Given the fact that a substantial number of Americans seem to think he’s a muslim anyway?

      You really haven’t thought this through. And neither, I suspect, have the politicos in Islamabad. Perhaps this is a sort of Dreyfus affair for them.

      Justice has to start somewhere Joe.

    39. joe90 — on 11th November, 2010 at 11:07 pm  

      post #37

      right and your solution is?

    40. douglas clark — on 11th November, 2010 at 11:21 pm  

      joe90,

      Well, Roger has a good point I think. In all the chaos you rightly identify, some part of that society is still functioning as usual.

      Very, very badly….

      ——————————-

      Frankly, this sets the case for compromising about Sharia Law for the UK back about a millenium. It is stupid, it is wrong, and it is completely unacceptable. The folk that legislated for it are pip squeek dictators. You’d have to be blind or stupid to fail to appreciate that sucking up to a dominant group will get you votes. It will also get you bought and sold for whatever they say is the agenda.

      The answer is to stop taking Saudi money and grow the fuck up.

    41. earwicga — on 11th November, 2010 at 11:26 pm  

      Thanks for the HuffPo link douglas.

    42. joe90 — on 11th November, 2010 at 11:42 pm  

      post #40

      If you think they apply shariah law in pakistan you got to be kidding me. If that was the case the current ruler would be hanged along with his whole cabinet for corruption, theft, murder to name just a few.

      forget for one minute this woman is a christian, how are you going to get justice for the common man in pakistan?

    43. Niaz — on 12th November, 2010 at 12:05 am  

      Well said joe90 this thread is full of people who know nothing about Pakistan or sharia yet feel qualified to talk about these subjects and lecture those who do

    44. douglas clark — on 12th November, 2010 at 12:17 am  

      Joe90 @ 42,

      If you think they apply shariah law in pakistan you got to be kidding me.

      They say it, not me.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7891955.stm

      You ask me:

      forget for one minute this woman is a christian, how are you going to get justice for the common man in pakistan?

      ____________________________________

      Wait a minute!

      There are a few points to clear up here.

      I have argued ad fucking nauseam on here that muslims in the UK get a bum deal. That they are expected to be responsible for idiots that take their religion, and, frankly, corrupt it. In my view, christians have done exactly the same, for as long as I can remember.

      I do not think that muslim haters have a reasonable case.

      I have never met a muslim that said any of the sorts of hateful bullshit that some in the media say. It is not to deny that some do, but it is not my experience. Basically, I prefer to believe what I see, and discuss - with muslims - rather than ‘get off’ as some folk do, on fear and ignorance.

      You might as well know, it is no secret, that I am an atheist. I think this is our best, and only, shot at a reasonable life, let’s make the most of it.

      So, I am defending the woman, Asia Bibi, on her most fundamental right, the right to disagree with me, and you and the whole fucked up state of Pakistan.

      To get back to your point.

      how are you going to get justice for the common man in pakistan?

      Well, apart from the sexism in your question, it is really not up to me. I am a bear of very little brain, and in any event, I am not a Pakistani. If you still want my opinion it is this:

      Try to establish a rule of law that is based on equality. Pakistan was an original signatory to a human, rather that weakly god like, idea about how we should conduct ourselves. Perhaps getting back to their roots?

      Try to outwit the thugs in drag that currently seem to be your judiciary, ideally by replacing them with sensible folk.

      Try to get it across to the electorate that the loudest are not the best. I doubt the Reverend Iain Paisley is particularily well known in Pakistan, but he is the role model for combining religion and politics.

      And being exceptionally, loud.

      Perhaps a Bollywood movie based on him?

    45. douglas clark — on 12th November, 2010 at 12:43 am  

      Niaz @ 43,

      Well said joe90 this thread is full of people who know nothing about Pakistan or sharia yet feel qualified to talk about these subjects and lecture those who do

      Well, educate me. Is it the case that a Christian woman in Pakistan is under a death sentence or have I got that wrong somewhere?

      And would that be Sharia Law as the godly in Pakistan had it implemented?

      Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t play games.

      I suspect you hate human rights. And women. Am I correct?

      Argue your point if you have one, niaz, or fuck off.

    46. douglas clark — on 12th November, 2010 at 12:53 am  

      Niaz,

      yet feel qualified to talk about these subjects and lecture those who do

      Well, we are all entitled to feel ourselves qualified
      “about these subjects” when a barbarian such as your good self deigns us with their presence. Frankly you are a nut.

      And learning a lot about shit is still shit.

    47. Roger — on 12th November, 2010 at 6:24 am  

      “forget for one minute this woman is a christian, how are you going to get justice for the common man in pakistan?”
      Forgetting one case makes it much harder to get justice for anyone else. That is true everywhere.

    48. Muhammad — on 12th November, 2010 at 8:19 am  

      The great Muhammad has spoken:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luU6bMzSpfg

      Forward this video to everyone you know and speak out against this!

    49. joe90 — on 12th November, 2010 at 9:44 am  

      post #44

      So because the bbc website says shariah is law of pakistan so it must be the case??? Actions speak louder than slogans. If pakistan implements shariah then i am brad pitt!

      common man is referring to average person regardless of sex! but i am sure you knew that.

      By saying there should be some rule of law and a sense of justice is exactly the point. This is what people want and what is missing.

      You choose one individual who is jailed with 0 evidence and i agree this is scandal, but what about the thousands in same situation usually poor who can be jailed under same scenario.

    50. douglas clark — on 12th November, 2010 at 12:21 pm  

      joe90,

      Well, the clue might be in the full name:

      The Islamic Republic of Pakistan

      or in the fact that the revised constitution says, inter alia, Islam has been declared as the state religion. The Constitution named Pakistan as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Only a Muslim could become the President or the Prime Minister of Pakistan. No law repugnant to Islam shall be enacted and the present laws shall also be Islamised.

      By the way, I didn’t write this piece, I am reacting to it. I agree with the author however, and not with apologists for this aspect of Pakistans governance.

      In this instance, they do have a rule of law and appear to be willing to follow it to it’s logical and morally wrongful conclusion.

      If there are lots of other folk being prosecuted under this legalese, then something ought to be done about it. To that extent it is no better than a witch trial from medieval days.

      At least you, Joe, have come out and said it’s wrong. Some other commentators on this thread seem to find that a tad difficult.

    51. Raja Sahib — on 12th November, 2010 at 2:41 pm  

      I think people here (from all sides) are not seeing the wood for the trees. 95% of all christians in the Punjab are considered “chooray” and make up the bulk of the ower castes. Those “chooray” that converted to islam are known in punjabi as “masallee” and are equally oppressed. The constant (generally accepted and often excused) oppression that millions of “chooray” face on a day to day level across India and Pakistan is on a par with Apartheid South Africa if not worse as it goes back centuries.

      As a result of the “War on Terror”, following on from the CIA / Saudi funded “islamification” of the late 70′s to the late 80′s (coinciding of course with the proxy war with the Soviets), it is more easier to oppress a “choora” just by saying they have blasphemed against the state religion rather than just raping / killing them and getting away with it. I would guess you can still do that in some places.

      Most christian settlements in Pakistan & Northern India are around cantonments or historical military bases of the British Raj, where impoverished dalits were given the opportunity to raise their profile and position in society by converting to anglicanism or catholicism. “Chooray” have converted to sects of islam and sikhi depending on who was in power at the time.

      By diverting away the masses attention from corruption, poverty etc to these blasphemy cases, the ruling elites are getting away with it. Of course we don’t do that in this country.

    52. amir — on 12th November, 2010 at 3:52 pm  

      douglas clark

      “I suspect you hate human rights. And women. Am I correct?”

      And we know you hate Muslims

      so fvck off

    53. douglas clark — on 12th November, 2010 at 3:56 pm  

      amir @ 52,

      Who is this ‘we’ of which you speak?

      Anyway, are you willing to condemn the death penalty that is hanging over this woman or not?

    54. amir — on 12th November, 2010 at 3:58 pm  

      “Anyway, are you willing to condemn the death penalty that is hanging over this woman or not?”

      absolutely..though find it interesting you dont demand the same of other groups when one of their number does something wrong ……

      so….are you willing to give up your demonisation and hatred of Muslims? I doubt it..

      I suspect you hate brown people and Muslims.

    55. douglas clark — on 12th November, 2010 at 4:19 pm  

      Amir,

      “Anyway, are you willing to condemn the death penalty that is hanging over this woman or not?”

      absolutely..though find it interesting you dont demand the same of other groups when one of their number does something wrong ……

      Well it is good that you found it in yourself to condemn it. Well done.

      As for the rest of it, I think I made my condemnation of the Gaza invasion kind of obvious at the time, and I was against the Iraq invasion…

      The subject of this thread is neither of these topics and, quite frankly, an attempt to cast me as a muslim hater is a convenient way of derailing a serious discussion. As I have said above, I think your average muslim gets a bum rap in this country because of a few hot heads.

      By the way, I am not in any way religious. I am however fairly well equal opportunities in condemning medieval behaviour wherever I see it. Gitmo comes to mind about something I felt strongly about. Or more recently the attempts by some to blacken the name of Moazzam Begg. And I don’t recall you contributing a dicky bird on that one.

    56. damon — on 12th November, 2010 at 7:57 pm  

      At this moment on Channel 4, the programme Unreported World is on and it shows (sadly) that some people and even some countries, are just absolutely bonkers.
      Half the prison population in the Central African Republic are in prison for being witches.
      Sentenced by the courts.

      http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/episode-guide/series-2010/episode-17

    57. Marcella Carmen — on 12th November, 2010 at 8:32 pm  

      As one who lived in Africa for 36 years, I know what is meant by witchcraft in Africa. It has nothing to do with dancing around naked under a full moon wearing five-pointed hats. From personal experience, I have twice seen the harm done by curses.(One man died simply by being convinced that he would and nothing my husband said to him helped him to think otherwise. The other man was saved by my husband’s intervention of praying in tongues to Jesus and convincing the curser that our “magic” was stronger than his, which my husband did by lining up the workers and spotting the one who was shifty eyed and sweating profusely with fear! He admitted to the curse, so the next step was to work out a reconciliation between the parties, and that was successful.) Also, a great deal of harm is done to the health of people taking the medicines of some witchdoctors - many die from the “cure”. I knew of a baby whose mother was told to feed the infant liquid cement to stop his diarrhea. The distraught young doctor telling me the story minutes after it happened said that particular area was under the thumb of a powerful witchdoctor and the police were helpless to catch him because his clients, even when dying, would not expose him. Presumably they were afraid of repercussions on their families. I should jolly well hope such charlatans are imprisioned. They earn a nice living from other people’s misery. Anything the C.A.F. is doing to bring its poor citizens out of the dark ages is a good thing.

    58. joe90 — on 12th November, 2010 at 9:46 pm  

      post #50

      Douglas in regards to the islamic republic of pakistan, i don’t want to bore people with a 10 page refutation and proving it is a secular state with capitalism as its economic basis. I am sure those that are bothered can do that with quick look on the net.

      So i will use kim jong -il to better illustrate my argument.

      you have the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (north korea as most people know it)

      No one is going argue north korea is a democratic country with democracy freely practiced as in the west. Likewise to call pakistan as fully in line or practicing shariah is a very bad joke.

    59. Shamit — on 12th November, 2010 at 9:54 pm  

      Amir - whoever the hell you are I don’t know and I don’t care but accusing Douglas of hating muslims or any group because of their ethnicity or religious affiliation speaks volume about you and your conduct?

      So shut up - on this blog regulars attack Hindus who sprout out shit and attack BJP on Gujarat - on this blog people regularly take a shot at the pope for his attitude and criminally negligent behaviour and we would take pot shots at a country that tries to use blasphemy laws to kill an innocent woman.

      A true muslim would understand compassion and the need to protect those who come to your house even if they are infidels (well that’s what the Koran says) - so could you please with all due respect take your shit somewhere else.

      We are good at abusing too - and you go after a mate trust me there would be vastly more intelligent people make you look truly the shit you are. Trust me.

    60. earwicga — on 12th November, 2010 at 10:53 pm  

      What Shamit said (except for the last line).



    Pickled Politics © Copyright 2005 - 2010. All rights reserved. Terms and conditions.
    With the help of PHP and Wordpress.