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	<title>Comments on: Should the BBC change policy?</title>
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	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-60063</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-60063</guid>
		<description>Completely agree with you Elaine....

&lt;i&gt;I tend to agree with John Lloyd’s view that the media has been central in debasing public political discourse. (I have written something lengthy about all this with some attempts to provide evidence for these assertions)&lt;/i&gt;

have you got a link to this? I&#039;d love to read it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree with you Elaine&#8230;.</p>
<p><i>I tend to agree with John Lloyd’s view that the media has been central in debasing public political discourse. (I have written something lengthy about all this with some attempts to provide evidence for these assertions)</i></p>
<p>have you got a link to this? I&#8217;d love to read it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-60062</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-60062</guid>
		<description>Why not propose something different from the rest of the UK media world and worthy of functioning as a public service broadcaster?  Something like ‘intelligent conversation’ based on competing analyses drawing upon sourced and reliable evidence.  
The UK print media are adversarial, partisan and increasingly dominated by commentary rather than analysis. With the exception of the Economist I find very little reliable analysis in the print media (I find I often disagree with the political analysis -but enough information is there to form one&#039;s own opinion). I certainly find that the scope of the coverage of world news is diminishing; I tend to agree with John Lloyd&#039;s view that the media has been central in debasing public political discourse. (I have written something lengthy about all this with some attempts to provide evidence for these assertions)

There is more than ample public media space for the venting of &#039;opinion&#039; and aggressive confrontation. The BBC does not need to offer this: it needs to stand out from the crowd.

Impartiality should allow different interpretations, emphases, etc to be aired; it does not require providing a platform for unsubstantiated opinion.  Being a responsible public service should entail questioning evidence and the bases of argument for these interpretations. Unless one is an utter relativist, one weighs the logic and evidence that support arguments.  Inevitably, ideological difference means a selectivity about &#039;evidence&#039; -- but that should be made manifest (not by sneering &#039;you would say that wouldn&#039;t you); it also affects the way issues are ‘framed’ and journalists should be aware/sensitive to when/how that is done and how to challenge such framing. (I had a long exchange with BBC about a complaint I made about racist and communalist framing in discussion programmes)

This carelessness with issues of valid argumentation and evidence is very corrosive and is incredibly widespread.  I operate in a number of social and political worlds. Here in the UK – even amongst academics and journalists in a social setting - it is almost considered ‘rude’ to ask for evidence for assertions and even ruder to ask for the source (I have perfected an ‘interested/fascinated’ mode to deflect that sort of response).  You rarely find citations in the UK print media; on programmes like Question Time, etc. anecdote almost always trumps statistical research, basic recurring factual inaccuracies are never challenged, etc. (I can give specific examples).  

I would like to know that I am &#039;well-informed&#039; by the BBC because of the scope, diversity and quality of the material offered.  I would like to feel that there are standards for evidence, for quality of argument that are - yes - imposed on those who engage in public political discourse. I would like to be able to &#039;rely&#039; on the BBC. That doesn&#039;t mean that it has to be boring or bland or lacking in humour; it doesn&#039;t mean that there can&#039;t be real drama--just not confected drama/opposition framed in the tabloid sytle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not propose something different from the rest of the UK media world and worthy of functioning as a public service broadcaster?  Something like ‘intelligent conversation’ based on competing analyses drawing upon sourced and reliable evidence.<br />
The UK print media are adversarial, partisan and increasingly dominated by commentary rather than analysis. With the exception of the Economist I find very little reliable analysis in the print media (I find I often disagree with the political analysis -but enough information is there to form one&#8217;s own opinion). I certainly find that the scope of the coverage of world news is diminishing; I tend to agree with John Lloyd&#8217;s view that the media has been central in debasing public political discourse. (I have written something lengthy about all this with some attempts to provide evidence for these assertions)</p>
<p>There is more than ample public media space for the venting of &#8216;opinion&#8217; and aggressive confrontation. The BBC does not need to offer this: it needs to stand out from the crowd.</p>
<p>Impartiality should allow different interpretations, emphases, etc to be aired; it does not require providing a platform for unsubstantiated opinion.  Being a responsible public service should entail questioning evidence and the bases of argument for these interpretations. Unless one is an utter relativist, one weighs the logic and evidence that support arguments.  Inevitably, ideological difference means a selectivity about &#8216;evidence&#8217; &#8212; but that should be made manifest (not by sneering &#8216;you would say that wouldn&#8217;t you); it also affects the way issues are ‘framed’ and journalists should be aware/sensitive to when/how that is done and how to challenge such framing. (I had a long exchange with BBC about a complaint I made about racist and communalist framing in discussion programmes)</p>
<p>This carelessness with issues of valid argumentation and evidence is very corrosive and is incredibly widespread.  I operate in a number of social and political worlds. Here in the UK – even amongst academics and journalists in a social setting &#8211; it is almost considered ‘rude’ to ask for evidence for assertions and even ruder to ask for the source (I have perfected an ‘interested/fascinated’ mode to deflect that sort of response).  You rarely find citations in the UK print media; on programmes like Question Time, etc. anecdote almost always trumps statistical research, basic recurring factual inaccuracies are never challenged, etc. (I can give specific examples).  </p>
<p>I would like to know that I am &#8216;well-informed&#8217; by the BBC because of the scope, diversity and quality of the material offered.  I would like to feel that there are standards for evidence, for quality of argument that are &#8211; yes &#8211; imposed on those who engage in public political discourse. I would like to be able to &#8216;rely&#8217; on the BBC. That doesn&#8217;t mean that it has to be boring or bland or lacking in humour; it doesn&#8217;t mean that there can&#8217;t be real drama&#8211;just not confected drama/opposition framed in the tabloid sytle.</p>
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		<title>By: Podnosh Blog : High Fibre Podcasting</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59912</link>
		<dc:creator>Podnosh Blog : High Fibre Podcasting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59912</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Radical Impartiality...&lt;/strong&gt;

	Thanks to Sunny at Pickled Politics for this quote from Peter Horrocks, the head of BBC News at the BBC:
So, the days of middle-of-the-road, balancing left and right, impartiality are dead. Instead I believe we need to consider adopting what I like to...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Radical Impartiality&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>	Thanks to Sunny at Pickled Politics for this quote from Peter Horrocks, the head of BBC News at the BBC:<br />
So, the days of middle-of-the-road, balancing left and right, impartiality are dead. Instead I believe we need to consider adopting what I like to&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bananabrain</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59879</link>
		<dc:creator>bananabrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59879</guid>
		<description>all journalistic pretensions of impartiality are shams and the bbc&#039;s is no exception. i&#039;m not a daily mail reader myself, but i can certainly sympathise with the following:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=436794&amp;in_page_id=1770

to say nothing of this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article1522471.ece

although i am in many ways one of the &quot;liberal&quot;, &quot;progressive&quot; &quot;élite&quot; and practically make up a chattering class on my own, i have to say that it annoys me intensely that the bbc seems to have its own foreign policy - although it would be even more grounds for suspicion if it just reflected government policy (especially after the interview i heard this morning about dentists - sheesh). i suppose that&#039;s the difficulty.

b&#039;shalom

bananabrain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all journalistic pretensions of impartiality are shams and the bbc&#8217;s is no exception. i&#8217;m not a daily mail reader myself, but i can certainly sympathise with the following:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=436794&amp;in_page_id=1770" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=436794&amp;in_page_id=1770</a></p>
<p>to say nothing of this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article1522471.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article1522471.ece</a></p>
<p>although i am in many ways one of the &#8220;liberal&#8221;, &#8220;progressive&#8221; &#8220;élite&#8221; and practically make up a chattering class on my own, i have to say that it annoys me intensely that the bbc seems to have its own foreign policy &#8211; although it would be even more grounds for suspicion if it just reflected government policy (especially after the interview i heard this morning about dentists &#8211; sheesh). i suppose that&#8217;s the difficulty.</p>
<p>b&#8217;shalom</p>
<p>bananabrain</p>
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		<title>By: lithcol</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59714</link>
		<dc:creator>lithcol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59714</guid>
		<description>William I assume you  are  well educated and probably fairly prosperous. You are also probably  liberal in your outlook. You probably support the interests of minorities etc. All to the good, however there is a large constituency out there who do not see their views supported or aired often enough on the media, particularly the BBC. 
Like it or not the far right is making massive inroads in this country and Europe as a whole. Radical impartiality would of course have to give them a bigger voice. Exposing the inherent racism of the BNP would I fear have absolutely no effect as long as some of the failings of the current government are not addressed. 
Actually I probably assume too much. Who watches news on the telly anyway? Not many by all accounts, and if they do it ain’t the BBC. So why bother with radical impartiality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William I assume you  are  well educated and probably fairly prosperous. You are also probably  liberal in your outlook. You probably support the interests of minorities etc. All to the good, however there is a large constituency out there who do not see their views supported or aired often enough on the media, particularly the BBC.<br />
Like it or not the far right is making massive inroads in this country and Europe as a whole. Radical impartiality would of course have to give them a bigger voice. Exposing the inherent racism of the BNP would I fear have absolutely no effect as long as some of the failings of the current government are not addressed.<br />
Actually I probably assume too much. Who watches news on the telly anyway? Not many by all accounts, and if they do it ain’t the BBC. So why bother with radical impartiality.</p>
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		<title>By: ZinZin</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59711</link>
		<dc:creator>ZinZin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59711</guid>
		<description>How about reporting information and thats it? There is too much comment and I am not just talking about the commentariat its the phone-ins as well. Still at least the phone-ins keep you up to date with the ignorance thats out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about reporting information and thats it? There is too much comment and I am not just talking about the commentariat its the phone-ins as well. Still at least the phone-ins keep you up to date with the ignorance thats out there.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59709</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59709</guid>
		<description>Impartiality is partly in the minds of the partakers anyway in this case BBC staff and interviewees. Radical impartiality will be subject to the same criticism. I am with Chairwoman however. Let it happen, the looneys will fall in an open arena but this time being in an open arena we can then see them fall. OK groups like the BNP may continue to hide behind a veil of moderation. But we know this already so lets tell them that we know how they hide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Impartiality is partly in the minds of the partakers anyway in this case BBC staff and interviewees. Radical impartiality will be subject to the same criticism. I am with Chairwoman however. Let it happen, the looneys will fall in an open arena but this time being in an open arena we can then see them fall. OK groups like the BNP may continue to hide behind a veil of moderation. But we know this already so lets tell them that we know how they hide.</p>
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		<title>By: Rumbold</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59704</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumbold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59704</guid>
		<description>Nemours is just bitter because he was on the losing side during the French Wars of Religion.

If the BBC became a genuine subscription service, rather than a TV tax, then it could be led by what its consumers wanted; if that meant excluding certain groups from having a voice, then so be it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nemours is just bitter because he was on the losing side during the French Wars of Religion.</p>
<p>If the BBC became a genuine subscription service, rather than a TV tax, then it could be led by what its consumers wanted; if that meant excluding certain groups from having a voice, then so be it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59701</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59701</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Hold on what is this site for? Are contributors merely a ready horde of bright idea merchants to make you look good?&lt;/i&gt;

But of course. I get most of my inspiration from my readers, didn&#039;t I say this before? Surely that is the best form of interaction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Hold on what is this site for? Are contributors merely a ready horde of bright idea merchants to make you look good?</i></p>
<p>But of course. I get most of my inspiration from my readers, didn&#8217;t I say this before? Surely that is the best form of interaction?</p>
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		<title>By: lithcol</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59700</link>
		<dc:creator>lithcol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59700</guid>
		<description>So, the days of middle-of-the-road, balancing left and right, impartiality are dead. Instead I believe we need to consider adopting what I like to think of as a much wider “radical impartiality” - the need to hear the widest range of views –all sides of the story.

Does Peter Horrocks really think the  British public are stupid? Does he believe that the BBC has been broadcasting “middle-of-the-road, balancing left and right” news and opinion? Of course not. He has at last admitted, although in a somewhat coded style, what many others have being saying for sometime. The BBC has been broadcasting the biased agenda of a privileged liberal elite.

Radical impartiality! Bullshit terminology. Impartiality is sufficient. Difficult to achieve in practice but nevertheless a worthwhile pursuit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, the days of middle-of-the-road, balancing left and right, impartiality are dead. Instead I believe we need to consider adopting what I like to think of as a much wider “radical impartiality” &#8211; the need to hear the widest range of views –all sides of the story.</p>
<p>Does Peter Horrocks really think the  British public are stupid? Does he believe that the BBC has been broadcasting “middle-of-the-road, balancing left and right” news and opinion? Of course not. He has at last admitted, although in a somewhat coded style, what many others have being saying for sometime. The BBC has been broadcasting the biased agenda of a privileged liberal elite.</p>
<p>Radical impartiality! Bullshit terminology. Impartiality is sufficient. Difficult to achieve in practice but nevertheless a worthwhile pursuit.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid Love</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59692</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59692</guid>
		<description>pure radically impartial genius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pure radically impartial genius.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jagdeep</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59691</link>
		<dc:creator>Jagdeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59691</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://youtube.com/watch?v=_zIzciYwGHM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;You know what really grinds my gears?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=_zIzciYwGHM" rel="nofollow">You know what really grinds my gears?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sid Love</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59685</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59685</guid>
		<description>what&#039;s that Jagdeep?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what&#8217;s that Jagdeep?</p>
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		<title>By: Jagdeep</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59683</link>
		<dc:creator>Jagdeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59683</guid>
		<description>You know what really grinds my gears Sid? You know what really grinds my gears?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what really grinds my gears Sid? You know what really grinds my gears?</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59678</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59678</guid>
		<description>Sir Boyle Roche, who boasted that he would judge a case fairly, without being partial on the one hand or impartial on the other, would get on very well with Mr Horrocks. An important aspect with balance in physics is that the effect of a weight depends on its mass multiplied by its distance from the centre of balance. By the same token, it only takes a small mass at the extremes- HuT or the BNP, say- to outweigh the solid sensible opinions near the centre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir Boyle Roche, who boasted that he would judge a case fairly, without being partial on the one hand or impartial on the other, would get on very well with Mr Horrocks. An important aspect with balance in physics is that the effect of a weight depends on its mass multiplied by its distance from the centre of balance. By the same token, it only takes a small mass at the extremes- HuT or the BNP, say- to outweigh the solid sensible opinions near the centre.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid Love</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59677</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59677</guid>
		<description>you&#039;re just showing off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re just showing off.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59672</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59672</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Oh yeah, and Sunny, whilst you’re there - tell them:
More Family Man and American Dad

for shoooar!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hell yeah!

(he says even though he has all five seasons of FG and season one of AD on dvd...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Oh yeah, and Sunny, whilst you’re there &#8211; tell them:<br />
More Family Man and American Dad</p>
<p>for shoooar!</p></blockquote>
<p>Hell yeah!</p>
<p>(he says even though he has all five seasons of FG and season one of AD on dvd&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Jagdeep</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59666</link>
		<dc:creator>Jagdeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59666</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;All those views need to be treated with the same level of sceptical inquiry and respect&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So a meek and mild lady who represents some church organisation and takes an eminently moderate and sensible and respectful considerate position on an subject, for example, deserves to be treated with the same level of sceptical inquiry and respect as some skanky ideologue who justifies suicide bombing, or some redneck racist from the BNP? Yeah right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>All those views need to be treated with the same level of sceptical inquiry and respect</p></blockquote>
<p>So a meek and mild lady who represents some church organisation and takes an eminently moderate and sensible and respectful considerate position on an subject, for example, deserves to be treated with the same level of sceptical inquiry and respect as some skanky ideologue who justifies suicide bombing, or some redneck racist from the BNP? Yeah right.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid Love</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59662</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59662</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, and Sunny, whilst you&#039;re there - tell them:
More Family Man and American Dad

for shoooar!

that&#039;s as much radical impartiality they can probably stomach for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, and Sunny, whilst you&#8217;re there &#8211; tell them:<br />
More Family Man and American Dad</p>
<p>for shoooar!</p>
<p>that&#8217;s as much radical impartiality they can probably stomach for now.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid Love</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068/comment-page-1#comment-59661</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1068#comment-59661</guid>
		<description>you&#039;re too kul for skulvinder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re too kul for skulvinder.</p>
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