UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet


by Sunny
19th October, 2010 at 3:33 pm    

Well, I guess it’s definitely become a fashion item now!

via @monaeltahawy


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  1. sunny hundal

    Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  2. Sadaf Qureshi

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  3. Mohammed M Ahmed

    “@sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt”


  4. Simon Hailes

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  5. 1st Ethical CT

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  6. Ekow Eshun

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  7. Gary Dunion

    I LOVE MIA. That is all. http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/10526


  8. James Killin

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  9. elgan

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  10. Elisa

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  11. earwicga

    RT @sunny_hundal: UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  12. Ellie Mae

    “@earwicga: RT @sunny_hundal: UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt”. << it's only cool if she was in France.


  13. Suniya Kukaswadia

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  14. Neha Thanki

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt


  15. Neha Thanki

    Oh, MIA, you so edgy: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/10526


  16. Andrew Potter

    RT @nehathanki: Oh, MIA, you so edgy: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/10526


  17. Jaime Campbell

    UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt – @gribiche Is this the awards ceremony you were talking about?


  18. Rossouw Nel

    MIA decides to wear a burca -> http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/10526


  19. Youssef

    Pickled Politics » UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet http://bit.ly/cwYLJt I want one!


  20. Noxi

    UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet | pickledpolitics | http://ow.ly/2WnBO


  21. janehenrici

    RT @June4th: UK rapper MIA wears a burqa on the red carpet | pickledpolitics | http://ow.ly/2WnBO




  1. Kismet Hardy — on 19th October, 2010 at 4:00 pm  

    I wore one for four days at Big Chill last year. People are really afraid of you, but it’s also incredibly liberating. To dance knowing no one can really see you means an attention seeker like me can really go to town…

    Pics if you care:

    http://kismethardy.blogspot.com/2010/10/big-chill-pretentious-moi.html

  2. africana — on 19th October, 2010 at 4:22 pm  

    but it’s hardly going to give you a sense of what it’s like for a muslim woman given that your reasons for donning one are entirely different to theirs.

  3. earwicga — on 19th October, 2010 at 4:29 pm  

    As I understand it africana, there isn’t one single reason that Muslim women wear the niqab or burka. It is impossible to generalise.

  4. leon — on 19th October, 2010 at 4:50 pm  

    Highlighting a serious issue or hijacking it for greater publicity? Given the ignorance this so called music ‘artist’ has spouted in the past I think I’ll go for the latter…

  5. An Old Friend — on 19th October, 2010 at 6:31 pm  

    Well its better than her stealing her style from back in the day Salt n Peppa and Queen Latifah.

  6. Ravi Naik — on 19th October, 2010 at 6:40 pm  

    I guess some artists take their clothes for publicity, she just took the other direction to achieve the same purpose.

  7. damon — on 19th October, 2010 at 8:38 pm  

    Kismet Hardy @1 – I’m reminded on seeing your pictures of one of the Carry On films I think.

    As for MIA and her burka?? Well – you do have to try I suppose. What’s she’s trying to say I have no idea.
    ”Look at me” perhaps – a bit like Madonna wearing those basques and conical pointy bras.

    Women in the United Arab Emirates wear that dress as a matter of course and I don’t really see its comedy value.
    http://www.impactlab.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/2-dubai-mall-975.jpg

  8. sonia — on 20th October, 2010 at 2:13 am  

    I think its brilliant! i see i’m not the only one who’s thinking of starting the neo-niqabi movement.

  9. Cauldron — on 20th October, 2010 at 5:25 am  

    Well, in the past MIA was kind of ambivalent about the LTTE so I guess there is some kind of pattern emerging here.

    http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/12934

  10. Iman Qureshi — on 20th October, 2010 at 12:38 pm  

    @Cauldron

    “Well, in the past MIA was kind of ambivalent about the LTTE so I guess there is some kind of pattern emerging here.”

    There is a difference between recognising that the Tamils are an oppressed/marginalised/discriminated minority, and supporting a terrorist outfit.

  11. Iman Qureshi — on 20th October, 2010 at 12:39 pm  

    Also, I bet Lady Gaga is kicking herself for not getting there first!

  12. Ravi Naik — on 20th October, 2010 at 12:42 pm  

    and supporting a terrorist outfit

    I was not aware that the 9/11 bombers wore niqabs…

  13. RezaV — on 20th October, 2010 at 1:00 pm  

    The niqab or burka are ‘extreme’ types of dress.

    It is perfectly reasonable to surmise that women who choose to wear the niqab or burka are choosing a fairly ‘extreme’ interpretation of Islam’s teachings on modesty.

    Why then is it beyond the wit of so many people to consider the possibility that a woman who chooses to believe an ‘extreme’ interpretation of Islamic dress will not also believe other ‘extreme’ interpretations of Islam, such as an ‘ideal world’ where shria rules supreme, non- Muslims are dhimmis, apostates, homosexuals and adulterers are killed?

    Wearing a niqab or burqa (or the jim-jams, sandals and beards sported by some male Muslims) are often an ideological badge or uniform.

    When one sees a skinhead walking towards them wearing DMs and a Cross of St George T shirt, it is perfectly reasonable to consider it likely that the skinhead is a repulsive fascist.

    Islamists in extreme Islamic dress are also very likely to have repulsive and fascistic views.

  14. An Old Friend — on 20th October, 2010 at 1:14 pm  

    RezaV

    A beard, sandals? Are you fucking serious? There are Muslim men who sport a beard and sandals whose wives and or daughters dont sport a Niqab or a Burkah. I swear this debate is getting fucking out of hand. Now we are going to criminalize foot wear and facial hair?

    “When one sees a skinhead walking towards them wearing DMs and a Cross of St George T shirt, it is perfectly reasonable to consider it likely that the skinhead is a repulsive fascist.”

    Youre assuming he is a skin head of the Nazi variety. He could possibly be into the Heptones and New Wave.

  15. alex the awesomest — on 20th October, 2010 at 1:19 pm  

    I don’t trust people in ties. Hitler wore a tie. Creepy children wear ties. I have never seen a Godwin’s Law tie. I feel uncomfortable when I’m attracted to a woman in a tie. The older children at school used to pull the end of my tie really hard and I would have to pick at the knot for hours to escape.

    Why are people discussing her? Behind every burqa is a man, so to speak. The real question is why is her husband allowed to force her to wear a burqa? He must wear a tie.

  16. Kismet Hardy — on 20th October, 2010 at 3:01 pm  

    ““When one sees a skinhead walking towards them wearing DMs and a Cross of St George T shirt, it is perfectly reasonable to consider it likely that the skinhead is a repulsive fascist.”

    This year at fesivals I wore just that. Proof, if proof were needed, that a uniform doesn’t necessarily symbolise a person who believes in what it stands for, but often is just out to get some attention

  17. africana — on 20th October, 2010 at 3:04 pm  

    @rezaV.

    to add to what an ol friend said: do you reakise that liquor store owner in south asia wear shalwar kameez, beard and sandals? that those blokles in afghanistan who procure young boys for bacha bazi also sport the same clothing.

    last time i checked, homosexual acts and dealing in alcohol were off limits in islam.

  18. africana — on 20th October, 2010 at 3:12 pm  

    muslim women these days may be the only women dressing in this way however over the years the niqab has been associated with non-mulsim peoples.. the jewish wome of the hijaz in the eraly days on islam wore niqabs and the women of byzantium wore them. in fact in israel there are ultra-orthodox women who are fighting against their own religiou authorities for the right to wear a burqa as they feel it’s requitred by jewish law.

  19. Lamia — on 20th October, 2010 at 6:25 pm  

    “Now we are going to criminalize foot wear and facial hair?”

    Oh look, a strawman. Reza V said nothing about banning anything. He pointed out the link between dress and beliefs.

    @ Kismet Hardy

    “This year at fesivals I wore just that. Proof, if proof were needed, that a uniform doesn’t necessarily symbolise a person who believes in what it stands for, but often is just out to get some attention.”

    As you said above, “People are really afraid of you, but it’s also incredibly liberating.” I believe people wearing balaclava helmets get a simlar result.

    Most people object to to other people completely covering themself up because it is an innately anti-social act. You could tell who other people were but they couldn’t tell who you were. That is to say, there is no social reciprocation there, the balance is completely one-sided. Clearly you enjoyed not reciprocating the courtesy other did to you by not covering their faces. How nice for you. But do you think such an attitude is deserving of respect from others? Or even of courtesy?

    No one who covers themselves up should be surprised if it evokes fear or suspicion. It is a matter of human instinct to feel that.

  20. Lamia — on 20th October, 2010 at 6:28 pm  

    do you reakise that liquor store owner in south asia wear shalwar kameez, beard and sandals? that those blokles in afghanistan who procure young boys for bacha bazi also sport the same clothing.

    Do you realise that Britain isn’t in South Asia?

  21. An Old Friend — on 21st October, 2010 at 2:56 am  

    Lamia

    Growing up in LA we had banned clothing in school because red and blue, Raiders jerseys and basketball caps were considered gang affliated. A lot of young black and Hispanic men lost their lives wearing these clothes whether they were actually affiated or not. Till this day you dont go into certain areas wearing certain colors. Bandanas are completely out of the question. Good thing no one wears them anymore anyway. I blame NWA for all of it and RezaV was being an asshole.

  22. Kismet Hardy — on 21st October, 2010 at 6:58 am  

    The bloodshed caused by pirus, bloods, crips and chicanos throughout the 70s onwards. You blame NWA for ALL of it? Can I borrow your sweep? My generalisation carpet is a mess. In fact, I’d go as far as to say The Inspiral Carpets are to blame for the troubles in Moss Side, nay, the downfall of the band t-shirt as we knew it, perhaps western civilisation itself

  23. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 9:32 am  

    Thank you Lamia, you made my point better than I did:

    …do you think such an attitude is deserving of respect from others? Or even of courtesy?…”

    And that Lamia is the crux of my point. The wearing of a burqa doesn’t guarantee that the wearer is a fascist Islamic extremist. However, it would be perfectly reasonable to presume that it is likely, just as a white guy in the skinhead uniform doesn’t have to be a racist, but probably is.

    However, the stupidity of ‘diversity celebration-ism’ is that it aggressively demands that all that is brown, black or foreign must be good. This means a loss of all sense of perspective in this issue. Could you imagine the likes of Sunny et al defending and demanding respect for skinheads and their right to dress as skinheads? Of course not.

    If some idiot wants make themselves virtually unemployable, a social pariah and offensive to the majority of British people by dressing as a ninja (or a skinhead thug) then of course they should have that right to do so in a free society. Hell, they can dress as a pantomime horse as far an I’m concerned.

    However that does not mean that our society must be forced to somehow ‘celebrate’ that horrible garb nor the likely fascist Islamic extremist lurking beneath it.

    And freedom must go BOTH ways. Just as someone has the right to wear what they want, I have the right to find it utterly offensive and say so freely. I should have the right to refuse to employ someone wearing a tent, just as I am allowed to refuse to employ someone wearing a BNP t-shirt without being dragged to a tribunal. Indeed everyone must have an inalienable right to refuse admittance to a burqa (or BNP badge) wearer into their shops, business premises, airports, banks, etc without any risk of being dragged to a tribunal or being labelled as ‘racist’.

    And like elsewhere in Europe, society MUST have the right to refuse benefits to people who make themselves unemployable by the way they dress.

    But we can see the way this is going. The ‘progressive’ left, multiculturalists Sunny and the usual “racist!” hissing loons will inevitably seek to curb MY rights. That’s their MO. First a demand for ‘tolerance’, then a demand for that ‘tolerance’ to be enforceable by law, then a shutting down of criticism using those laws and finally a demand that we should all ‘celebrate’ the unacceptable.

    The burka IS a fascist uniform, just like the skinhead and DM outfit. If non-fascists wish to wear similar garb for whatever reason then they shouldn’t be surprised if they elicit hostility from those they’re offending.

  24. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 10:02 am  

    Not that this will make any difference to the democracy-hating multiculturalists:

    “Islamic Burka Ban: 67% Of Britons Agree”

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Burka-Ban-Two-Thirds-Believe-Islamic-Garment-Should-Be-Outlawed-Five-News-And-YouGov-Survey-Says/Article/201007315666275

  25. joe90 — on 21st October, 2010 at 10:50 am  

    A woman wearing a burkha does not make them a fascist because there is no proof to say they are.

    I have no fear of a woman wearing a burkha because looking at a piece of black cloth has not resulted in death as far as i know.

    I hope Next and M&S new clothing range is the burkha range, and more women start wearing the burkha to piss of racist idiots like rezav and all the other names he uses to post his filth!

  26. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 11:26 am  

    Oh look, I write “…the usual “racist!” hissing loons…” and joe90 kindly vindicates my point.

    Wearing a burka isn’t “proof” of fascist beliefs. I thought I’d made this point very clearly in my first paragraph. But neither does taking part in an EDL demo prove that the demonstrator is a racist. But it certainly makes it more likely. That’s my point.

    The issue here joe90 (and I know it is difficult for people like you to understand this) is that the Koran and hadith contain pretty nasty stuff. For example, there’s stuff in there about killing homosexuals, people who have sex outside of marriage and Muslims who change their religion. There’s also some nasty stuff in there about Jews and non-Muslims.

    Now I know that this might be tricky for you, but bear with me, those sorts of views are pretty fascistic AND there are many Muslims out there that support them.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7355515.stm

    And this version of Islam is what the media tends to call “extremist” Islam. Understand?

    So let’s see if we can get those senses dulled by decades of anti-intellectual multiculturalist bullshit working for a moment.

    Imagine, that someone’s interpretation of Islam is that it requires them to cover themselves from head to toe.

    Now joe think carefully, do you think they are more or less likely to believe the nasty stuff I highlighted above?

    I know that this is making your brain hurt, but ask your self this: why do you see so many female supporters of Salafism and Hib-ut-Tahrir wearing the burka?

    (If you don’t know what those two words mean let me know and I’ll explain them to you).

    See joe, I know this might seem impossible for you to get your head around, but brown people can be and very often are fascists.

  27. earwicga — on 21st October, 2010 at 11:32 am  

    RezaV – No. Wearing the veil isn’t related to the types of views you illustrate.

  28. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 11:49 am  

    ^^^Because you say so earwicga?

    Any evidence to support that statement?

    By the way, believing that there is a strong link between extreme dress and extremist views isn’t unusual. That’s exactly the viewpoint the French took when they outlawed the burka.

  29. earwicga — on 21st October, 2010 at 12:13 pm  

    I’m aware of the racist viewpoint the French government took when it outlawed covering ones face in public RezaV.

  30. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 12:17 pm  

    RezaV,

    “Islamic Burka Ban: 67% Of Britons Agree”

    I could imagine a poll that asked:

    “Do you hate Chelsea FC?” getting very similar results.

    The question is, what to do about it?

    You have a profoundly stupid idea of what a democracy is about.

  31. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 12:43 pm  

    Oh earwicga.

    Not you too.

    “Racist, racist, racist…”

    Are you people incapable of debating any point without resorting to that woeful and devalued word?

    Is Turkey “racist” for banning the burka?

    If Egypt “racist” for banning the burka?

    Are the British and French Muslims who oppose the burka also “racists”?

    The link between extremist garb and extremist views are understood by many Muslims and Muslim majority countries such as Egypt and Turkey.

    (Just a reminder: I don’t support a ban on any clothing, but neither do I support the idiot competitive altruists that are elevating the fascists who wear that garb into some sort of victim group).

  32. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 12:51 pm  

    earwicga @ 29,

    How, exactly, is it racist?

    If you care to look at the thread that Rumbold ran on ‘The Burkha Should Not be Banned’ you would see my shifting position on that.

    No, it shouldn’t be banned – that would be prescriptive – but neither should it be supported, that would just be idiotic.

    It is not racist to say that earwicga.

    You are supposed to be the feminist around here.

    To what extent do you think that it is imposed by men on women?

    I eventually came to the conclusion that I didn’t know…

    But it is, at least I think it is, an open question.

    How does that fit with your ideas?

  33. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 12:58 pm  

    Disingenuous Douglas. As usual. And not thought through properly:

    “I could imagine a poll that asked: “Do you hate Chelsea FC?” getting very similar results.”

    The poll did not ask: “Do you hate the burka?” If it had then I suspect the result would have been much higher than 67%.

    It asked whether the burka should be outlawed. See the difference?

    Now I don’t think that a reputably conducted large sample opinion poll that asked “Do you think that Chelsea FC should be outlawed?” would get a very high result. The British people aren’t anywhere near as stupid as liberal fascists make them out to be.

    See Douglas, you thought you’d made a clever point and it ended up being stupid.

    Such a fine line…

  34. joe90 — on 21st October, 2010 at 1:12 pm  

    post 26#

    Don’t like to repeat myself but Viewing a piece of cloth does not result in death nor does it change the functioning of a persons brain.

    Your clearly in need of therapy i suggest you stick to harry’s place where they happy to accommodate your filthy views regarding the world. Your full of contradictions from burkha bashing to quoting about killing homosexuals.

    I could just as easily bash the secular violent extremists like Tony blair = 1 million dead iraqis but then we wouldn’t want to go off topic.

    I await your next amusing rant against minorities where you claim they are the fascists and apparently your not!

  35. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 1:13 pm  

    Bloody hell, Douglas, just after I expose your buffoonery, you write something I agree with:

    “No, it shouldn’t be banned – that would be prescriptive – but neither should it be supported, that would just be idiotic.”

    The next step would be the ability to see the danger of what’s happening here: Niqabis and their ‘progressive’-leftie Islamist-appeasing supporters are creating a new ‘victim’ group.

    And as we’ve seen so often, victimhood has many privileges. You can demand specific group-rights.

    For example, niqabis will demand laws that force employers to accommodate them, laws that prevent people refusing to admit them onto their premises, laws to demand special treatment in schools and hospitals. Actually, they’re already doing that.

    What’s more, you should note the fact that no one is able to provide any evidence to refute the point that extremist garb often reflects extremist views. (Earwica’s “No it isn’t!” comment isn’t evidence.)

    Do some research. You’ll discover that this viewpoint is behind Turkey, Egypt, France, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Italy and Holland banning or seriously considering banning the niqab and burka.

  36. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 1:24 pm  

    RezaV @ 33,

    You are very funny.

    An analogy is just that, a comparison for the sake of wit.

    You say:

    “Do you think that Chelsea FC should be outlawed?”

    As if.

    The question I put was:

    Do you hate Chelsea FC?

    To which, surprisingly enough, I think you might get a majority voice in favour.

    It would be more extreme – a subject you appear to have a PhD in – to ask whether folk thought Chelsea FC ought to be outlawed.

    So.

    There we have it.

    Democracy will be defined by the stupidity of the questions that RezaV can come up with.

    _______________________________

    Returning to the question, it seems to me that women should be allowed to dress as they like, without male pressure.

    However, I do not recall this race to the Burka prior to 7/7 or 9/11. Perhaps there was the occasional woman walking around, but it is a political statement nowadays.

    The question is whether it is her statement or that of her male relatives or husband.

    As I cannot prove either, I remain unconvinced that it is not just a form of civil disobedience.

    If the society that you live in treats you with contempt, wearing clothing that says ‘fuck you’ is actually a minimalist response…

    Which is understandable…

  37. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 1:45 pm  

    Reza V @ 35,

    We need to get in synch.

    Try reading my post @ 36.

    Then we can exchange ideas or insults or whatever….

    Meanwhile, I’ll read your post @ 35.

  38. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 2:12 pm  

    Reza V @ 35,

    Bloody hell, Douglas, just after I expose your buffoonery, you write something I agree with

    Maybe so.

    But it comes from some convictions.

    And I’d like to ask you whether you agree with this or not?

    Are you sitting comfortably?

    1 Are women your equal?

    2 Should they be independent?

    3 Should men try to tell women what to think?

    4 Should men use women to forward their own agenda?

    Or:

    5 Should women play dumb?

    6 Should all women see feminism as their’s and their’s alone?

    Or:

    7 Why should I think either you or earwigca have any axis on truth? For you both lack evidence.

    8 Why is it wrong to point out that you are both fighting against ghosts?

    For the arguements you both make are the stuff of legends, the stuff of history.

    _____________________________

    It seems to me that this is a stupid conversation. It is between an archetypal male and and an archetypal female.

    Most of us are neither….

  39. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 2:16 pm  

    Douglas

    Bloody hell. #36 is another very sensible post (well the second part anyway). You’re on a roll Douglas!

    Of course, as long as you allow people to wear the niqab, there will always be a risk that some women here are pressurised into wearing it.

    Indeed, one of the reasons for France banning the hejab in schools a few years ago was that Muslim girls who didn’t wear it were being threatened and intimidated by Muslim men on their way to and from school. There was actually a fair bit of support from French Muslims on the school hejab ban.

    However, I don’t believe that the majority of women wearing it in London fit into that category. They choose to wear it.

    And it is surprisingly perceptive of you point out that it is more likely to be “a political statement”, “a form of civil disobedience” and a way of saying “fuck you”.

    If you understood more about Islam particularly Salafism and movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb-ut-Tahrir then you’ll understand more about the “political statement” that the niqabi is making.

    And that is the crux of the point I am making.

    When I see a woman in a niqab I know that in all likelihood her political and ideological beliefs will be homophobic, anti-Semitic, anti-democratic, illiberal and thoroughly repugnant.

    Ignorant non-Muslims however seek to elevate her into some ‘victim’ of discrimination.

    And therein lies the danger.

  40. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 2:21 pm  

    Reza V..

    When I see a woman in a niqab I know that in all likelihood her political and ideological beliefs will be homophobic, anti-Semitic, anti-democratic, illiberal and thoroughly repugnant.

    Perhaps you do.

    I just see a rebel.

    Rebels are good!

    Anyway, answer the questions at 38. I’m sure your audience wants to know!

  41. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 2:41 pm  

    I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make but I’ll humour you:

    1 Are women your equal?

    Some are. Some are superior. Some inferior. Depends on the context. If you’re asking whether I think that men and women should have equal rights (as opposed to subjectively ‘equivalent’ rights as promoted by Islam), then of course.

    2 Should they be independent?

    That is entirely up to the individual woman, but I believe that schools ought to educate girls that they are both equal to men and capable of making their own decisions in the world.

    3 Should men try to tell women what to think?

    If you mean should they have the right to by virtue of being male, then no.

    4 Should men use women to forward their own agenda?

    It depends on the agenda. Yes. No. Maybe. It’s a daft question.

    Or:

    5 Should women play dumb?

    Eh?

    6 Should all women see feminism as their’s and their’s alone?

    Of course not. Eh?

    7 Why should I think either you or earwigca have any axis on truth? For you both lack evidence.

    I’ve provided arguments and evidence to support my view. She hasn’t.

    8 Why is it wrong to point out that you are both fighting against ghosts?

    Eh?

  42. africana — on 21st October, 2010 at 2:48 pm  

    @lamia@20,

    are you seriously rtrying to suggest that sporting sandals, beard and shaklwar kameez outside south asia equals terrorist.

    where i live in glsgow, half of my neighburs dress in just that way, some belong to the tablghi jammat, some are deobandi’s, others are brelvi’s and some of them are even punjbi sikh’s(or should that be the other way round?)

    i have not the slightest inkling that any of them are plotting, from the depths of their tenements, the overthrow of the monarchy and the hoisting up of the flag of khalifa over the houses of parliament.

    just suppose, for argument’s sake, that were to be your aim, wouldn’t you be better concentrting your effoirts on an area of the orld where the majority of the people actually practioners (to a greater or lesser degree) of the religion in whose name you claimed to be acting.

    the dominant feeling of muslims towards the government and security services id one of wanting to be left alone. you know like in the age of pre 911 innoccence.

  43. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 3:04 pm  

    Sorry Douglas, you’ve gone and spoilt your roll for sensible comments with a dafft comment this

    “I just see a rebel.
    Rebels are good!”

    Well here, I also see a rebel.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01387/neo-nazi-back_1387347i.jpg

    And deduce that rebels are certainly NOT always “good”.

    I suggest you read “What’s Left” by Nick Cohen. You really need to open your mind to the fact that brown people are every bit as capable of holding fascist and unpleasant views as white people.

    In fact Douglas, having a default position that refuses to acknowledge this fact is ‘racist’ by any reasonable definition of that word.

    I have argued and evidenced the fact that niqabis are very likely to have unpleasant views. I have provided examples of Muslim countries that ban the niqab for that very reason.

    I challenge anyone to come up with a single example of a niqabi that holds what could be described as ‘liberal’ views.

  44. Kismet Hardy — on 21st October, 2010 at 3:04 pm  

    The only time what people wear counts for shit is when it’s a uniform. If you’ve crossed them, the fucking warden will ticket you, the copper will arrest you, the soldier will shoot you. Anyone else wearing anything else is about as relevant as the spotty geek who recreates his image at university by donning a Nirvana t-shirt. End of.

  45. earwicga — on 21st October, 2010 at 3:07 pm  

    douglas –

    an archetypal male and and an archetypal female.

    Would that be Jungian archetypes or just good old-fashioned steroetypes that idiots use?

  46. earwicga — on 21st October, 2010 at 3:10 pm  

    RezaV

    I have argued and evidenced the fact that niqabis are very likely to have unpleasant views. I have provided examples of Muslim countries that ban the niqab for that very reason.

    Bollocks! Women’s dress is regulated because women wear it. It’s not unusual and it’s not always legislated for. But it happens everywhere.

  47. Kismet Hardy — on 21st October, 2010 at 3:17 pm  

    Point is, when a person wears an outfit, be that a niqab or a sex pistols t-shirt, while they might identify with a group, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they belong, and remain individuals who haven’t really signed up to the same common cause as, say, soldiers in the same uniform have. So while you might point at three women wearing niqabs and hark: ‘j’accuse, I brand thee’, you might be surprised to find one is wearing it because she was raped and wants to hide away, while another is doing so because she believes in angels and demons, and the other because she knows it gives her husband a thrill. Likelihood is these three women have nothing in common with one another. You can’t say that of three soldiers given the same mission

  48. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 3:20 pm  

    “…you know like in the age of pre 911 innoccence.”

    Oh please!

    I suggest you read Desperately Seeking Paradise: Journeys of a Sceptical Muslim by Ziauddin Sardar.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Desperately-Seeking-Paradise-Journeys-Sceptical/dp/186207755X

    Islamism has been alive and thriving for decades. It’s just that before 911 no one noticed it.

    And let’s dispose of one particular straw man once and for all: The overwhelming majority of Islamists, whether they are beardy, sandal wearing ‘prophet-copiers’ or niqabis do not sit around plotting to overthrow the government or blow up things.

    They are peaceful and law abiding.

    What they do support whatever, is an ideal world where Islam and sharia law rules supreme. And they strive to reach that ideal in Europe through peaceful (I repeat PEACEFUL) means.

    Peaceful means such as using immigration, polygamy,and fertility rates to win a demographic ‘war’ in Europe. These discussions are being had today in student Islamic organisations up and down the country. And if you read the book you’ll learn that they’ve been discussed for as long as we’ve had a sizable Muslim population here, certainly as far back as the 70’s.

    ‘Peacefully’ believing that in an ideal world, homosexuals and ex-Muslims ought to be killed is STILL extremism. It is still repugnant.

    And it’s sickening the way the ‘progressive’ left refuses to acknowledge or even confront this fascism for no other reason than its supporters are predominantly ‘brown’.

  49. africana — on 21st October, 2010 at 4:20 pm  

    “Peaceful means such as using immigration, polygamy,and fertility rates to win a demographic ‘war’ in Europe”

    there’s actually been a steady decrease in the average number of children burn to british pakistani’s in recent years..i can honestly say,i’ve never come across this idea other than in neo-con propaganda. many conservative muslims bemoan the fact that the younger generation of british pakistani’s seem to have embraced all the worst aspects of american hip hop culture and even where the parents are fairly active in the practise of their religion their sons are enamoured of a sub-culture at odds with islamic values. this being the case, i hardly think even the theoretical person who wishes to see the peaceful islamisation of society would view increased birth rates as the answer if the types of “muslims” who result are, as per the hadith,many in number but like the foam on the sea.

    thanks for the advice regarding the book, even though i have read it.

  50. africana — on 21st October, 2010 at 4:22 pm  

    @Reza,
    are you similarly opposed to attachment of the hassidim to halakha law, then?

  51. dan — on 21st October, 2010 at 4:50 pm  

    Reza
    ““Peaceful means such as using immigration, polygamy,and fertility rates to win a demographic ‘war’ in Europe””

    Pure extreme far right “Eurabian” paranoia

  52. RezaV — on 21st October, 2010 at 5:06 pm  

    Africana

    So you’re trying to tell me that you’ve never come across a Muslim who dreams that one day Britain will be part of a Kalifa?

    Come on!

    And are you really trying to claim that there are no British Muslims who believe that in an ‘ideal’ world, gays, apostates and those who have sex outside of marriage should be killed?

    In post #26 I provided a link to a BBC article that suggests “over a third of young British Muslims believe that the death penalty should apply for apostasy.”

    Here it is again.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7355515.stm

    And what does Pakistani birth rates have to do with anything? I’m talking of the jihad to promote Islam throughout Europe. If you attend the mosque or speak to political Islamists then you’ll know exactly what I mean.

    Indeed, if you really have read Sardar’s book then you’ll be an expert.

    Your attempt at moral equivalence of sharia with halakha is pretty poor.

    Jewish law does not seek to govern non Jews. There isn’t a Jew anywhere that imagines a time when England is a Jewish state and governed under Jewish law.

    Regardless of this, the numbers of Jews that follow it in the UK are tiny. So it isn’t really a good comparison.

  53. africana — on 21st October, 2010 at 5:41 pm  

    repellent as these views might be, there are quite a number of men, in wider society, who view women as responsible for their own rapes. should they be exiled to some remote scottish island?

    does it reall ymatter what would constutute an individual’s ideal society if that society exists only as a pipe dream? let’s suppose such a muslim exists,what sense does it make to concentrate your efforts on a society where the vast majority of the population either don’t believe in God or are at least fair weather christians.

    i beg to differ on the issue of what is discussed in mosques. imams steadfastly refuse to enage with politics and that’s not just the TJ’s.

  54. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 5:50 pm  

    Och, this has become a joke thread. Inhabited by the likes of Reza V who, when challenged, sees any attempt to understand his ‘world view’ as a challenge to his right to exist. And, so too, with earwicga, a party dude feminist who calls up Jung – fucks sake – as if that wasn’t what you did when you were very, very drunk. Or completely out of an arguement.

    Is it not as stupid does to follow either of these idiots?

    _________________________

    Points:

    Reza V and earwicga should get a room together and leave the grown ups to discuss shit.

    It is perfectly clear that the birth rate of Asian women living in this green and pleasant land is moving downwards, probably to round and about the fertility rate of the rest of us. This is as near a fact as matters.

    Reza V should stop reading ‘The Gates of Vienna’ as some sort of bible. It is, in fact, written by morons.

    Earwicga should be a tad more open to other opinions than she is at the moment. Anyone that says anything that contradicts her world view is her deadly enemy. That is a closed, and pretty extreme viewpoint. Apropos nothing at all, it takes chutzpah to leave this up without further editing:

    Edit: This is a post about an imperfect organisation that exists in an imperfect world. It is not an endorsement of Project Prevention by Pickled Politics or by any of its bloggers.

    ……

    I’m glad Project Prevention has come to the UK.

    Eh!

    There is a fundamental lack of thought in both Reza V’s attitudes and earwicgas’. It is all about aggression and belittling anyone that disagrees with their clash of nations or sexist bullshit, and not at all about understanding nor, certainly, compromise.

  55. damon — on 21st October, 2010 at 6:53 pm  

    Och

    Douglas Clark – as this is a mostly English forum, using expressions like that make you sound a bit like Russ Abbot.
    http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_01/russabbot0709_228x411.jpg
    Reza is an idiot, so don’t bother with him.

  56. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 7:50 pm  

    Och wee damon, it is how I stand outside this, largely English debate. I am not thurled to the language that they use, but wabbit about their assumed superiority. I’d swither over that presumption right enough.

    ______________________

    I was amused to see that, on one of these tweet thingys, Sunny said that there were ‘protests, as far away as Dorset’.

    Well, Dorset is quite close to, err, Dorset. And only a metropolitan would make a mistake like that. It is the arguement of the febrile London mind that only London matters, and that only opinions expressed in London count. It is hard to keep up with your current abode, but, assuming it is round and about Belfast, does it have more or less impact because of your current geographical location? Would it be more acceptable were you to reside in Cricklewood or summat?

    It is kind of why I am SNP.

    I think that Londoners are a lazy, and well serviced, elite and shouldn’t – on the grounds of being Londoners – be given any respect whatsoever.

    Let them make their arguements on a level playing field, especialy with the guid folk of Dorset.

    Who the fuck is Russ Abbot?

  57. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 8:22 pm  

    africana @ 53,

    Why is it always a remote Scottish island?

    You lot have got the Scilly Isles, and several other points around the globe – South Georgia comes to mind.

    If you want to be a barbaric and stupid society feel free. Just don’t involve us….

    Of course I agree with the rest of your post.

    Spot on.

    I’d assume that most of us have an idea about a Utopia. The fact is, it would probably be shit… And we’d probably want to ‘exit stage right’ from our own vision.

  58. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 8:48 pm  

    In the sense that religious ecstasy – for is that not what is promised – would become a bit of a bore? What if you disagreed with mana as the main course, every day, all the time, and yearned for a lamb bhunna? Presumeably God could make your mana taste of lamb bhunna, but would that work?

    I doubt it.

    It is all in the cooking and there is nothing to suggest that God is a good chef….

  59. africana — on 21st October, 2010 at 9:11 pm  

    @57,
    yes, agreed. saint kilda is better left to the seagulls, i say we ship the numpties off to the falklands…
    as a weegie of sorts myself,osaama saeed got my vote, too.

  60. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 9:40 pm  

    Really?

    as a weegie of sorts myself, osaama saeed got my vote, too.

    Well, he’d have got mine also, except I’m in the South and we have the dreaded, damnably reasonable Tom Harris, who we could not shift.

    This is interesting is it not? I think of Osaama Saeed as a chum, just ’cause I think he is a pretty honourable person. And not the Béte noir of Harry’s Place.

    I am, frankly, astonished to find you knowledgeable on the subject.

  61. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 9:58 pm  

    Osama Saeed – just to be clear.

    His blog is worth the read:

    http://www.osamasaeed.org/

    Not what they say in Dorset, or London perhaps…

  62. africana — on 21st October, 2010 at 10:35 pm  

    yes, i did read his blog back in the days before he became the snp candidate for glasgow central. i was particularly interested in his thoughts, with his being local to the pollokshields area, on the Kriss Donald case and on the way in which the bnp had been attempting to exploit the situation for political gain..osama reported that kriss’ mum telling them to get the hell out of the area was said to have put an abrupt end to their endeavours.

    i could scarcely believe that the same man was being was being characterised, by some on the right and maybe in the labour party, as an angry fundamentalist.

    it was unlikely that he would have won out against the sarwar political machine but at least the snp’s profile was raised in the area.

  63. douglas clark — on 21st October, 2010 at 10:46 pm  

    africana @ 62,

    That about sums it up.

    You have my respect.

  64. halima — on 22nd October, 2010 at 4:08 pm  

    “Also, I bet Lady Gaga is kicking herself for not getting there first!”

    Well, it won’t be the first time Lady Gaga rips something offf MIA.

    Go MIA.

    I have lots of friends and family members who wear niqab, luckily they don’t get the same attention for it as MIA, but god, I am always surprised at how much people have to say about this topic, it’s like years ago, people used to mind their business in this country, and they’ve run out of things to discuss. I heard somewhere that’s why Britain’s gone into DIY in a big way, it’s coz we don’t have much to do anymore.

    Just for the record, I am not a repressed Asian Muslim for coming from a a family where others wear a niqab, the fact that I have to state this is pretty terrible, but there appear to be lots of people out there who simply need to get out and see more of the world.

    Halima (writing from the Shaolin Temple, P.R.C).

  65. damon — on 22nd October, 2010 at 5:42 pm  

    Hi Halima, this is just a bit of a joke, (and I agree with you nearly always) – but if you were wearing a niqab in China, and your niqab wearing friends and family members came out to visit you in China – how would that go down with Chinese people in general?
    Walking down the street – in cafes and resturants, on the trains and buses. Would people be treating you, or looking at you differently do you think?

    I’m living in Belfast these days, and although you will see hijab wearing muslim women on most days, I’ve yet to see one niqab. I think that even some people who might want to wear one here, don’t – because they think that would actually draw attention to them rather than deflect it.

    Btw, have you been in China all this time? I really want to go there too. I was hooked on the TV series Kung Fu in the 1970′s as a kid… about a former Shaolin monk in the Old West in America.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_(TV_series)

  66. earwicga — on 22nd October, 2010 at 7:47 pm  
  67. africana — on 22nd October, 2010 at 9:44 pm  

    @Damon,

    i recall a time when hijab was a relatively rare sight in the uk.although the number of women wearing niqab remains small,the numbers do seem to have increased. i used to live in the west end of newcastle (which has a sizable bengali muslim population)in the days before september 11th.and recall there having been only two women dresed in this manner in that area back then. on returning to the area several years later, niqab (even though it was far from the majority) was a much more common sight-you could expect to pass at least one niqabi on a short trip between home and the local priamry school.

    in my experience, british born benagli and pakistani muslim women (as well as some converts)seem to be those most likely to wear niqab. it is quite rare to see an arab, north african or somali woman in niqab, both in the uk and in their home countries, i suspect. the exception would be a minority of saudi women and other gulf arab women.

    at present, niqaabi women, whilst they are a common sight on the streets of the ethnic minority majority area in i live in glasgow, tend not to be seen in the city centre as you would hijabi’s. at least one woman i know cites fear of harassment for staying away. (primark’s pretty rubbish so they’re not missing out.)

    perhaps, there are niqabi’s in belfast, too, but unless you live in an area with a fair proportion of muslims, you are unlikely to see them.

    perhaps the niqab will gain the same level of acceptance that the hijab has in recent years gained in the uk.

  68. africana — on 22nd October, 2010 at 9:53 pm  

    @earwicga,@66,

    interesting link, thanks…it’s a sad stae of affairs that such information even needs to exist.

  69. halima — on 23rd October, 2010 at 2:23 am  

    Damon,

    My family have come here to visit and have been fine. No one stares at them anymore than they do at white foreignors, and in fact I might actually go further and suggest that Chinese people are more comfortable with my Hijab wearing friends and family than they are with white skinned foreigners.

    China is full of Chinese Muslims who wear Hijab, and the Niqab is common in Western China where the predominant population is Muslim. No, my parents and family won’t feel out of place in China , because unlike Europe where anyone who isn’t ‘white skinned’ is usually marked as ‘different’, foreigners tend to go about their business here just fine. As far as I am concerned I am just another foreigner in China, no difference between me and other white-skinned foreigners. OK, there may be a slight thing about white people being ‘worshipped’ as a superior race which is a hang over from the colonial era (evidenced by the way in white foreignors can turn up to five star hotels and for staff to allow it, whereas a Chinese guest in the same clothes would be shown the door). But, on the whole, China is relatively comfortable with Muslims.

    What they’re not comfortable is with Chinese minorities to seperate from greater China. A different political ball game, altogether.

    Yes, been in China since April, 2009, and came to the Shaolin Temple because one of my nephews from London ( who is 13) was keen, and as you say, who wouldn’t want to, I wasn’t familiar with the Kung Fu show, but I grew up with Bruce Lee films in my house… It’s really fantastic to come here, very foreign friendly and you can take lessons in the temple with the monks,though you get more out of it if you come with some basic skills, otherwise it’s stretches all day long to get you to be flexible! My brother in London who has been learning martial arts for 15 years is very envious – I will have to bring him back some Kung Fu shoes!

    H

  70. douglas clark — on 23rd October, 2010 at 3:29 am  

    africana,

    So, you were my solitary example of a muslim in Glasgow when I was scooting Rumbold and his significant other around the town? And I was trying to tell them how we had a huge muslim population and no real problems. You all disappeared that day.

    Anyway.

    Is it because we all just get on?

    Seems to me that we do.

    Well, mostly, and usually and stuff like that?

    I have not met a Scottish Asian that subscribed to cultural superiority – though some such sect of fools appear to exist in Dundee.

    As far as I am concerned, you can be Asian and Scottish, or Scottish and Asian and no-one gives a toss.

    It seems to me that that it is the general case. That you could argue otherwise on specific examples, but that that would also be cheapskate.

    Least, I think so.

  71. damon — on 23rd October, 2010 at 3:03 pm  

    That’s good that they are pretty easy going about hijabs Halima, it was the niqab that I was more curious about …. but anyway, I envy you spending that much time in China.
    Kung Fu was such a great show, and I haven’t seen it since, but I just looked and saw that loads of it is on youtube. The opening title sequence showing him growing up from a boy in the temple, to becomeing a man and finally getting his Shaolin Monk tiger and dragon brands on his wrists. It was inspiring stuff.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEtKj6keoYU

  72. halima — on 23rd October, 2010 at 6:15 pm  

    Damon,

    “Niqab is common in Western China where the predominant population is Muslim”

    Thank you for the link to the show, will check it out…. I’ve been inspired to go out and get some old movies and watch them back-to-back when I can.

  73. africana — on 23rd October, 2010 at 8:11 pm  

    if Damon, or anyone else is interested in chinese muslim martial artists, do have a look at the links below. age certainly seems to be an adavantage in this domain.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GZjClgxnaU&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzfeozkD0FI&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAABjoWyyKQ&feature=related

  74. africana — on 23rd October, 2010 at 8:32 pm  

    “though some such sect of fools appear to exist in Dundee.”

    how intriguing. a quick search on google backs up what my neighbour had said about there being a gujurati community of sorts in dundee. i wonder as to whether, this being the only difference in termsof the make up of the muslim community there whether the sect of which you speak is in some way connected to the gujurati speaking part of india.

    recently,i had reason to speak with an imam in dundee (to warm him about a “palestinian” con man and woman who were headed his way, no less) and he seemed a very affable sort.

  75. douglas clark — on 23rd October, 2010 at 8:47 pm  

    Africana,

    You can run rings around me on the detail. I do not live in Dundee, and would not wish to do so.

    My solitary reference to this is here:

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2875451/Muslims-fury-at-holy-city-boozer-in-Dundee-named-Medina.html

    What are you doing talking to imams in Dundee?

    Who are these people, and apropos, who are you?

    I am just me, and I am not very important at all. Friends, such as KJB, will confrim that. It seems to me that someone who is apparently a friend of Scotland, or Scottish muslims, really needs to come out of the shadow and identify themselves.

    Seems to me…

  76. africana — on 24th October, 2010 at 12:02 am  

    thank you for the link. i somewhat doubt events unfolded in anything like the way they were reported, though.

    the people of whom i spoke were a couple and a young boy (although as to whether they were a family remains a question in my mind) who, after arriving at a glasgow mosque, claiming to be newly arrived from palestine and en route to norway where they intended to claim political asylum, were accomodated for a number of days with a local family. during their stay, most of that time was spent doing the rounds of glasgow’s mosques raising funds, after each prayer, ostensibly for the trip north and for “palestine”. however, it became apparent that not only did they have in their possession a return ticket to syria but that they had also made a number of purchases for family back in syria. additionally, their “son” frequently let the side down by declaring “ana hebbul rohul sooria” (i want to go back to syria).
    a visiting arab aquaintance from north east england was somewhat surprised to discover that the family of palestinian refugees who had, the previous week, been living behind a curtain in one half of HIS local mosque up had made an appearance, not in norway but in glasgow…and with exactly the same story.

    needless to say, they were not long for glasgow but they were overheard to have mentioned to one another the word “dundee”, hence the call.

    strathclyde police were informed (naturally) but since all monies received were volunteered and the “palestinians” were in fact in possession of a visa there was little they could do.

    i would come out of the shadows but posting in my own name does not appeal. indeed, it was only recently that i saw a comment, on another forum i frequent, which had been written maliciously under my name. but rest assured, i am a simple muslim and friend of scotland.

  77. douglas clark — on 24th October, 2010 at 12:18 am  

    africana,

    OK, I expect. I too have been the victim of identity theft and it is not a ‘comfortable’ situation to be in.

    I kind of love the folk around here that could separate the truth from the fiction. I was, on the other hand, going nuts. It is folk like them that make this kind of a special place…

  78. halima — on 24th October, 2010 at 3:00 am  

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/gallery/2010/oct/24/the-99-comics-marvel#/?picture=367958704&index=0

    Editors, whatever happened to Weekend Threads etc…?

    Here’s link from today’s Observer on new comic series, with Muslim iconic super-heroes saving the planet with Batman. I liked it very much.

  79. africana — on 24th October, 2010 at 4:18 am  

    @77, the appropriation of someone’s online identity (and associated evils like sock puppetry-and yes, i do think evil is the right word) are fairly easy for forum veterans to spot but can still do huge damage to an individual’s reputation. on some forums a strong sense of camaraderrie exists between the participants and to take on a new identity would set one apart from those established friendships.that it is happening online should hardly make a difference. i wonder how seriously the police take such complaints because until they do so salvaging an online reputaion involves little more than posting to as many forums as possible that there is another me about..and it’s inevitable that someone you consider a friend won’t see your comment but will read one of the appropriater’s malice filled rants.
    such is life.

  80. africana — on 24th October, 2010 at 4:22 am  

    in fact, there are a number of upstanding muslim bloggers out there who have known me for many, many years who can attest to the fact that i am a bona fide muslim woman who has been living in scotland for the past two years.

  81. douglas clark — on 24th October, 2010 at 4:55 am  

    africana @ 79 and 80,

    I went to the Police over it. Can’t say I was satisified, but at least they recognised that identity theft existed and that it wasn’t me.

    It was this community – y’know people that post here – that kept me sane. It is difficult to explain this, but folk that know me – with all my faults – knew that the impersonator wasn’t me.

    I have always had a huge respect for the people that write here.

    That they could separate the fact from the fiction, if you like, was an immense positive.

    I don’t know how I would have felt without their support.

    And support I got. In Spades.

    It struck me, back then, that most folk that comment here are decent and reasonable people. Come to think of it, they always were. Yet it takes an ‘incident’ to tell me what I should have already known.

    So, mea culpa, or summat.

  82. douglas clark — on 24th October, 2010 at 6:09 am  

    halima @ 78,

    I agree with you. It seems to me that all we do is argue. And yet, we have a lot in common too.

    Since Clairwill gave up the ghost, there has been no space here where we could talk about ‘stuff’ without it being an arguement. That has to be wrong. Wrongish or something.

    I’d like a thread, weekly, where folk let their hair down and weren’t expected to be politically correct.

    You’d have to persuade that Sunny Hundal chap, right enough!

  83. halima — on 24th October, 2010 at 1:31 pm  

    Editors – bring back the Weekend Thread please, otherwise PP will get a reputation for taking itself too seriously …

    Douglas, I am sorry to see PP go into some pointless arguments, the nature of the beast perhaps, I don’t mind serious disagreements which I am ALL up for, but silly ones, naaaaaa.

    The Weekend Thread was quite good at building some trust and shared sentiments with all of us, which in my opinion, made it easier to have serious debate and not fall out.

    I will wage a single issue campaign for Weekend Threads… Sunny, please tell us what’s needed to get us back to Weekend Threads… In my opinion, Sonia would do a fine job.

  84. douglas clark — on 24th October, 2010 at 2:26 pm  

    halima,

    The Weekend Thread was quite good at building some trust and shared sentiments with all of us, which in my opinion, made it easier to have serious debate and not fall out.

    I agree.

    In my opinion, Sonia would do a fine job.

    I am sure she would, but she doesn’t really comment here anymore. Which is a shame. I miss writing ‘I agree with Sonia’ which is all I did for yonks.

    Why don’t you have a bash at it?

    You’d have my support.

  85. Lamia — on 24th October, 2010 at 4:06 pm  

    @ Africana

    “are you seriously rtrying to suggest that sporting sandals, beard and shaklwar kameez outside south asia equals terrorist.”

    No I am not. That’s a strawman. No one has equated wearing such things in Britain with ‘being a terrorist’. Being more likely to hold conservative and unpleasant religious views, yes.

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