Comments on: Never forget Gujarat

By: Ramu

Ramu — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 17:34:36 +0000

STOP all this BAKWAS. Go back in 1969, think what happened…this is the same story repeated in 2002.Different is only that sufferers changed in 1969 Hindu and in 2002 muslims. Ask the Hindus about scattered communal violance in Ahmedabad, they lost every thing and cultvate FEAR from muslims, now things different.
I think you can’t chew it, you must have Hindu teeth for the same.. so stop all this anti-Hindu propaganda.

By: Peter Nolan

Peter Nolan — Mon, 05 Mar 2007 02:13:26 +0000

Perhaps somebody can satisfy my idle curiousity. What were the leaders of the British Muslim community (Peace Be Upon Them) saying and doing around the time of the massacres of Muslims in Gujarat? My impression was that this was pretty limited, given the number of Gujaratis in the UK.

By: Sid

Sid — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 17:55:43 +0000

You’re right to make the distinction Barbara. Those “pesky neocons” are yet to be collectively guilty of being complicit in a genocide, whereas Kissinger is. So, in that case, what would the correct descriptor be for your “great diplomat”?

By: Barbara Meinhoff

Barbara Meinhoff — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 17:45:38 +0000

“But it’s attempts at ending the genocide of 2 million+ Bangladeshis was thwarted by arch neocon, Henry Kissinger. ”

Arch-Neocon?

Kissinger the great diplomat who counselled against the war in Iraq? The man hailed as the old-school republican realist in contrast to those pesky neocons?

By: Jagdeep

Jagdeep — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:09:39 +0000

Excellent article in the Guardian by Mike Marqusee on this too.

By: Sahil

Sahil — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:59:24 +0000

#41 maybe Modi should take some accountability for the events that occurred on his watch (if not instigated by him), then people might be able to take his gestures seriously.

By: Kaalia

Kaalia — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:15:27 +0000

Sunny, how unfortunate you fail to recognise the need for reconciliation, for futures sake and for society’s sake!!
Special attention is required to take this bit on board which you failed to probe for everyones sake –
“Now, if you do want to improve the lot of your vested interests, represent development and see your people integrate and get on, then the least they can do is sit at the same table, be it Modi or not!! And the way things are going, Modi is here to stay for a long time. “

By: William

William — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:24:55 +0000

Just remembered, and since people have mentioned the poor, Dalits etc.

Wolverhampton has a significant Ambedkar Buddhist community. Recently exhibition boards have been erected with newspaper clippings talking of atrocities on Buddhists, fear of communal strife because six states in India have past anti conversion laws preventing people from converting from Hinduism to Islam, Christianity or Buddhism. Dalits sometimes convert to escape the caste system. On the face of it it would seem like a shocking attack on freedom. Have tried to investigate on the internet and some arguments are that at least some of the laws are against allurement or coercion in conversion although what is meant by allurement one wonders. Other arguments are that there is a plot by the Hindu far right simply to prevent people leaving Hinduism.

There is however concern for what could happen in the future with for example demonstrations by Dalits against the anti conversion laws.

By: William

William — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:05:19 +0000

The communal violence that happens in India is extremely sad and makes things that happen here look miniscule by comparision. In the Gujarat riots it was the Muslims who got dealt the heaviest hand over all, some estimate 3000 killed.

Many times it has been reported that there was complicity even collusion for the Sikh pogroms in the 80’s by some Indian politicians. Many talk of constant failure to get justice. It is scary how things flare up and how retaliation is way out of proportion to the events that spark them. Three thousand dead is way off the wall compared to 59 dead on a train. It is way out of sense to embark on pogroms because a couple of body guards execute the prime minister. Things can affect people in this country as well obviously as some people may have relatives who are affected. As well some local people in the UK went missing while visiting India during the anti Sikh riots.

By: Vikrant

Vikrant — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:58:21 +0000

Just to illustrate my point about Wikipedia articles on subcontinent. Just see the revisions the article has undergone in past 72 hours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Operation_Blue_Star&diff=111658579&oldid=110710314

The article on left is the most stable version. The one on the right is the latest version, with words “militants” replaced by “Sikh forces”.

By: Vikrant

Vikrant — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:51:48 +0000

Of course ,now that Congress is in power, one would expect them to do something, no?

Actually Congress & BJP seem to agree upon ‘People living in glass houses not throwing stones at others!’. You’d expected BJP to go after Congressmen indicted in anti-Sikh riots, but they didnt! Neo-facist Shiv Sena likes to call itself the most patriotic party in India, but Bal Thackeray is one of the reasons why convicted terrorist Sanjay Dutt is not in Jail. Similarly I doubt whether Congress would go after Gujarat rioteers.

Its the basic courtesy the bastards extend to each other dispite their ‘ideological’ differences.

By: Vikrant

Vikrant — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 05:55:26 +0000

@Sunny and Sid: Dont link to Wikipedia’s articles on South Asia! Call it ex-employee grouch or whatever… A huge internal arbitration is going on and it appears that over half the Pakistani contributors to Wikipedia are going to be banned!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/India-Pakistan/Proposed_decision

By: Vikrant

Vikrant — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 05:49:57 +0000

@mirax: I’m not whining or anything. I just dont care! It happened quite a long time ago. Justifying violence against somebody coz they’ve been privileged minorities is jost plain wrong! My point was, dont expect justice from Indian state.

@JFF bawa: will piss Vikrant off I’m sure.

No my friend… Just discovered that I can get into any college on NRI quota! Yes even the IITs…. Ahh… thank god i retained my Indian passport for all these years.

By: Kulvinder

Kulvinder — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 05:25:28 +0000

Kulvider,
You mistakenly attribute quotes to Sid that should really be attributed to me, Lithcol. But who cares?

What?

Slag off America if you want, and blame it for all your woes. It is the most diverse country on earth and it works. I am sure my son along with the sons and daughters of many others will still be around when you are wallowing in the depths of poverty, whimpering where did we go wrong.

Make an argument; have a point. Please? Your post was about the United Nations, my reply was about the United Nations. Had you been my child in Bangladesh in 1970 i’d have sent you to bed without pudding for responding like that.

By: lithcol

lithcol — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 02:33:38 +0000

Dear Sid,

Wishful thinking on your behalf. The Naxalites are few in number but growing. They are a symptom of the greater disease in India, extreme poverty. You just cannot ignore the desperately poor.
The greatest danger is of course from intercommunal violence. I can see no solution to this. Gugarat was but one appalling exemplar. I am afraid there is a rocky road ahead. There are no easy solutions.

By: Sid

Sid — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 02:16:49 +0000

The Naxalites of West Bengal and growing in other areas, are in the ascendency. The downtrodden of the caste system and the Dalits are not going to stand by and watch rich higher caste Indians swan around like some later

I think you’re still stuck in 1970, Humbert.

By: lithcol

lithcol — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 02:08:33 +0000

Kulvider,
You mistakenly attribute quotes to Sid that should really be attributed to me, Lithcol. But who cares?
Sid has a belief that counties that have a relatively small industrious rich elite will survive and prosper in the future. I think not.
China will eventually implode, the poor who are the vast majority will not submit to the degradations they are now experiencing. China is at root an autocracy, riding over the wishes of the majority (where has the communist ideal gone, perhaps it was never there). You want to live in China? Get real, their best are leaving, and guess where, the West. Freedom is a sweet fruit.
India. So chaotic. The bubble will burst. When I was there in 1970, I was appalled at the poverty and the arrogance of those who had. I have never seen anything like it in any other country. My understanding is that things are far worse now. The Naxalites of West Bengal and growing in other areas, are in the ascendency. The downtrodden of the caste system and the Dalits are not going to stand by and watch rich higher caste Indians swan around like some later day Raj potentates.
Countries need stability. Stability does not come if the majority of your population are piss poor. Slag off America if you want, and blame it for all your woes. It is the most diverse country on earth and it works. I am sure my son along with the sons and daughters of many others will still be around when you are wallowing in the depths of poverty, whimpering where did we go wrong.

By: Rowshan

Rowshan — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:53:08 +0000

well said sid. and to think the bastard got a nobel peace prize or someit for ending the war in Vietnam. That man is responsible for more genocide than anyone else i can think of. Sorry couldn’t resist swearing – save it for the most hated figures in contemporary history.

By: Sid

Sid — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:48:17 +0000

lithcol, let’s understand one thing and that is the US is neither moral nor immoral, but simply amoral and driven by it’s own self-intrest.

Right now, there is very little bad blood between the US and Bangladesh, if any at all, now that Bangladesh has discovered vast natural gas and oil reserves. Witness the flirtatious mutual-backscratching going on with it and the US. Even as we speak, the US is pulling a superb behind-the-scenes interventionist role in in Bangladesh’s adventures in democracy with the aid of the army!

I reasd that as two fingers up at both the Neo-Liberal ghouls like Nick Cohen and Lefty blowhards like Galloway. Symbiosis is good.

The problem is that when we talk about the US’s crimes in South Asia in 1971, I speak explicitly about individuals; Kissinger, of course, and Nixon, and not in terms of a politically homogeneous monoculture.

By: Rowshan

Rowshan — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:43:52 +0000

Kulvinder – you are right, absolutely and this is the reason why we are muscling ( can’t spell) in on iran and others that might want to challenge the statos quo.

Lithcol my friend you need to have longer term vision than today. The future is China, India, yes and a few others, but not the USA. This is why USA is wrecking havoc in the world today – to maintain competitive edge which it’s in danger of losing in 30 yrs time.

You are right – not everyone can get a job in China – only the best. The Chinese are too clever – they will only allow clever clogs to immigrate and then will encourage all the plebs from China to migrate to UK, US and Europe. Something like playing games with the idea of a brain drain – sending the drain into UK etc and bringing brains into China.

Isn’t there a clever phrase about the Chinese art of war – some blogger might know it.