Comments on: Overseas brides and learning English

By: DR1001

DR1001 — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:45:37 +0000

This is not isolated to muslims….what a general statement.

By: sonia

sonia — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:50:35 +0000

fe’reeha and sabina – absolutely – what terrible situations to be in especially when you have no language skills and no one to turn to! it is really important that anyone who is currently in that boat should have the no. of a friend/neighbour even community worker who speaks their language handy, up on their kitchen wall or something. I’ve just come back from a community conference in Canonbury and it was really heartening what i saw there. they’ve got some great mechanisms for joined up working ( as opposed to theory!) and as they have big somali and kurdish communities, the BME sub-group of the community development group gave presentations on what they’d been working on. ESOL classes were the top of their list and also workshops on domestic violence – specifically aimed at the 2 groups – but NOT restricted to them.

what you say Fe’reeha is absolutely vital – and I think so important in closing that generation gap.

so i think the underlying issues are clear – they’re all about empowerment of individuals ( in this case – mostly female) who are otherwise subject to undue pressure from other people – e.g. spouses/in-laws etc. If you’re not able to have much say in who you are yoked upto for life – chances are you’re going to find it harder to fight for your rights and stand up for yourself within that situation. addressing that is a long-term process. ANd in my opinion it does need recognition of the kind of family structures you grow up within.

By: Fe'reeha

Fe'reeha — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:07:58 +0000

Sonia, you are so right that it is also important to know the language of your children if you are a mother. The children in this country are and will always be different than the parents who have come from abroad, and language plays a very important role in this division. The kids are cleverer than we can ever imagine and learn to segregate themselves very early in life if proper communication is not available.

I have seen so many mothers in this country who know what their kids eat, drink and when then sleep. Maybe they would also know what time they should go to the mosque or the temple etc. Life beyond that surpasses their ability to grasp.
I call them “physical mothers” who have no idea of the inner workings of the mind of their children. Early childhood is a beautiful time to share and participate in for the parents. It’s impossible to do so if you do not understand your child’s language for inevitably they would make English their first language no matter what the parents would do.

By: Fe'reeha

Fe'reeha — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:07:22 +0000

Interesting comment Sabina !
This reminds me of another situation when I was with the MCB. The police called us looking for assistance early hours in the morning for a woman whose husband had died of sudden heart failure in the middle of the night, and she had no idea what to with the dead body or how to contact anyone as she has not even basic knowledge of English.
All she could do was call her family in India, who in turn, tried desperately to look for answers. She also went for help to the neighbours who thought of calling the police, and then as a second thought had an idea to call the MCB as the man who had died was a Muslim. Learning the language of your residential country is very vital, and it is preposterous to suggest otherwise.

By: sabinaahmed

sabinaahmed — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:42:06 +0000

Fre`eha and Sonia

There are many such horror stories,one emergency worker told me about a case where a 4year old rang 999 to speak on behal of her mother who could`nt tell them that she was un-well. Doctors complain that women come with young children for consultation, even advise on contraception has be given through these childrens.
Am very pleased to hear that there are women in manchester who are not only learning the language but are also expert in knocking others out!But unfortunately that is not the case accross the country.
The truth is that there is a great need for all women to know the language,as they are the ones who willbe raising the future generation of British citizens.
So let us not make excuses and do our best by highlighting the situation so that something can be done about it. Those of us who can,can volunteer to help at least one woman to learn english.

By: sonia

sonia — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:14:56 +0000

fe’reeha makes a good point – and a very valid one from the point of view of being a mother.

it sounds like the citizenship test idea is one that people here are in agreement with? so when the families want to apply for a passport for the bride -they’ll then have to let her take english courses and the other information about life in britain that you now have to have under law, before being able to start the ‘naturalization’ process.

By: Fe'reeha

Fe'reeha — Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:26:31 +0000

I think learning English is important even if you are not being abused by your husband. It is devastating to see couples trapped in decade old marriages yet they cannot speak each others language. In particular, in Pakistani community, language learning is not considered a priority.
I witnessed a woman going through labour pains and failing miserably to express herself to the doctors at a hospital in London about a year ago. My services were called to help them translate the situation (I did not have to explain the oohs and aahs of the woman, they were quite self explanatory) but apart from that it was a mess. The woman could not even tell them she was having cramps which could have led to a serious tragedy had I not been there to translate this for her. (She ended up having a c-section).
Later I found out the woman had a reasonably happy marriage and had been in this country for seven years. Yet she had not considered learning English even though this was her their child born here in the UK. How sad is that!

By: Trofim

Trofim — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:27:10 +0000

I know several women who came to Britain from Asia, and they’ve all enthusiastically learnt English. They’re from Irkutsk, Novosibirsk, Kemerovo and Krasnoyarsk.

By: Kismet Hardy

Kismet Hardy — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:02:37 +0000

It’s almost like a fairytale

By: El Cid

El Cid — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:01:46 +0000

and correct

By: El Cid

El Cid — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:01:03 +0000

of course — a suitably refined riposte

By: Don

Don — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:59:24 +0000

From wikki;

The Pogues were founded in King’s Cross, a district in north London, in 1982 as Pogue Mahoneâ€””pogue mahone” being the Anglicisation of the Irish pÃ³g mo thÃ³in, meaning “kiss my arse”.

By: El Cid

El Cid — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:56:10 +0000

Ally, thanks to a hairy chest there are no moobs visible to the naked eye
Leon, is that a face or a woman who’s given birth to too many babies?
Don, que?

By: Don

Don — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:50:24 +0000

Pogue Mahone?

By: ally

ally — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:49:17 +0000

watch you don’t dribble your ice cream down that cleavage Cid

By: Leon

Leon — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:49:06 +0000

(.)(.)
0
_

By: El Cid

El Cid — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:36:01 +0000

aagghh I meant “you’re”

By: El Cid

El Cid — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:34:05 +0000

ices and kia-ora are available during this intermission

and for your entertainment while your filling up on refreshments, allow me to share this phone text/blogease icon that I learnt today:

(_X_)

can you guess what it is yet?

By: ally

ally — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:23:27 +0000

this is rapidly turning into one of those discussions where we all end up bitterly, virulently agreeing with each other like there’s no tomorrow!

Group hug?

By: sonia

sonia — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:16:31 +0000

no reason to not to examine the societal contexts.

and in any case i shant make any pronouncements on british muslim women here – i know very little about that. but then this discussion ( as i thought) was about women brought over as brides from the indian sub-continent. so i think it’s perfectly relevant to point out aspects of social authority there.