Infuriating that parents are looking for the easy way out, and belief that they don’t have to do it.

It makes life very difficult to control children when there isn’t good support from parents and other members of staff.

Support from parents is invaluable.

But, it is very worrying to realise that children have very little fear of authority. There have been children from my school who have gotten into trouble with the law, and laughed at the judge in court.

What does this say about the current state of affairs?

Parents, really need parental education. We need to be taught on how to be good parents, otherwise things are just going to get worse.

It’s incredible knowing that where I come from, parents are mainly young teens and lone. They know very little themselves.

These are the people in which that should be targetted first.

don’t worry john, what i think about has nothing much to do with what you’re saying or will say. it’s not selling oneself short – if i feel that i might end up being one of those stressed out mothers ( which i can totally see how that happens, but again – that’s not an excuse)- that really makes me think twice, three times, four times about motherhood.

I returned the following anecdote.

My father was also in the British army. He was also someone I feared. Whenever I saw even an army beret I would become anxious for a while, being reminded of my dad. true!

Form is powerful. I guess for a few minutes we related through the common culture of our anxiety.

That is a similar view to myself. I was caned by my mother and my father at least threatened me with the belt (but don’t remember much). My Father was tied to a bed and belted by his dad. My mom said this was just being strict.

Neither would I justify it, but they did not know any better so I am not going to shout “the monsters” or anything like that.

I am not sure exactly where I lie on the continuum of punishment etc but when you talk of daily beatings and leather belts that to me is an extreme and it is not right to punish kids like that it is wrong!

Don’t go selling yourself short, not even for me. Like the song says “Yesterday’s gone, yesterday’s gone”and you have no need to be fearing for tomorrow. I can’t tell you that I’m the greatest parent in the world because I’m not but I can tell you that there are two little boys (one on Telford, Shropshire and the other in Hounslow) whom I would willingly lay down my life for. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t think about my boys, even though I am not their biological father. I just love them and I wish to God I knew why it hurts so much for me not to? Alas both Kirran and Issac occassionally push their luck with me, boys being boys and as a result sometimes they get a clip around the ear in return. But whatever happens we ALWAYS made up and we never went to bed angry. I haven’t clapped eyes on Kirran for almost three years now (because his mum went all native with some dude from Bishop Stortford) and it’s pains in ways I wouldn’t wish on my worse enemy because when I think of those two boys, I always end up thinking about my own childhood and it’s like it was just yesterday, it all comes flooding back. Most everything I’ve said in this thread wasn’t coming from John Christopher the Man but rather John Christopher the Boy. I’m still that little boy from Wolverhampton, eyes wide open, full of potential and hope irrespective of the daily beatings. My life was so much more than the leather belt. It was filled with wonder and adventure and a life like that never comes without pain. I wouldn’t have wished it any different.

I have always said we were just lucky.

Am I right in guessing that CW and I are the only ones here to have raised a child to adulthood? Without false modesty I can claim that mine is a dazzling success, and without unctuous flattery I’d say CW could make the same claim. We may not define our methods as the same, but I suspect that in practice they more or less were.

But not everyone gets to make a choice, a woman of limited education, self-esteem, and means who has to raise a child in a rough area without a partner or a support network isn’t going to be making choices. She’ll be trying to cope with today. And she will most likely be drained, demoralised and exhausted by the time her twelve year old is mixing with a crowd that isn’t conducive to good conduct.

Shuggy, as usual, has a good common-sense take on this;

http://modies.blogspot.com/2007/02/reason-354-for-never-voting.html

I always considered it a bonus and a wonderful surprise that I loved her immediately.

I also think that you’d make a good mum, but being one is not obligatory.

anyway, i’m sure you’d make a great mum, and if you’re sure you won’t, well don’t have one
(they were your words, not mine)

and it’s a bloody difficult job – and frankly i don’t feel at all maternal – and most people i know still think that’s weird and i ought to anyway. eh? shows how seriously most people take parenthood. “but what else would we do if we didnt’ have kids.”